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[ANSWERED] LEFT_HANDLE and RIGHT_HANDLE ?


Kwakkelde Kwak
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Cerise Sorbet wrote:

Oh, yeah, the collision volumes aren't really a weighting story, they're just bones and the avatar body doesn't use them directly.

But fitted mesh does, so...

Are you saying breast size and butt size for example are skin morphs and the extra bones are moving with the sliders so you can sort of follow the morph with a mesh shape controlled by the bones?

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Yes, exactly that, they've just bones that approximate what the avatar morphs do, they are actually independent.

A good example of this is a bug in the current fitted mesh viewers. A typo or two made it in for the male chest and belly, so the body morphs are moving too much while the mesh attachments aren't. (A fix has been made for that one, but not in relased viewers yet.)

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The collision Volumes do not have defined weights. The weights are so much depending on the mesh that it makes no sense to define a standard for this. So, the fitted mesh characters that have been made available in the Second Life Wiki are just examples for how a fitted mesh could be weighted.

Additonally just to make this complete:

 

  • The llm files contain the complete definition of the avatar meshes, the morph shapes and the mesh weights (for the mBones)
  • The avatar_lad.xml contains the definition of the sliders and how they influence the skeleton and the morphs
  • The avatar_skeleton.xml contains the entire skeleton definition including all mBones, Collision Volumes, Attachment points, bind pose information, etc...

btw: Our addon reads these files and i am almost sure, LL knows how to create and read these files as well :matte-motes-sunglasses-3:

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Gaia Clary wrote:

 

btw: Our addon reads these files and i am almost sure, LL knows how to create and read these files as well :matte-motes-sunglasses-3:

That is what I thought (about avastar) and the avatar using morphs rather than volume bones, explains why LL didn't release an avatar with such a setup. I was just a little slow realising that.

So instead of getting the weights as close as possible on the avatar, I'd better rig the avatar to the standard skeleton and use the morph targets. After reading up a bit today, I understand I am about 5 years late:)

Thanks for pointing me in the right direction with the files.

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Kwakkelde Kwak wrote:


Gaia Clary wrote:

 

btw: Our addon reads these files and i am almost sure, LL knows how to create and read these files as well :matte-motes-sunglasses-3:

That is what I thought (about avastar) and the avatar using morphs rather than volume bones, explains why LL didn't release an avatar with such a setup. I was just a little slow realising that.

So instead of getting the weights as close as possible on the avatar, I'd better rig the avatar to the standard skeleton and use the morph targets. After reading up a bit today, I understand I am about 5 years late:)

Thanks for pointing me in the right direction with the files.

There seems to be a lot of misconceptions about Fitted Mesh.  I will try to dispel them here.

1. Fitted Mesh is mesh weighted to just the Collision Bones.

2. The real avatar's mesh in SL is not weighted at all to the Collision Bones.  The original purpose of the Collision Bones is to weight a second invisible mesh we all wear to.  This second invisible mesh is call the Collision Skeleton.  It is used to detect when your avatar is hit or touched by something.

3. The way Fitted Mesh changes shape has nothing to do with Morphs.  Fitted Mesh changes shape because as you move the appearance sliders in SL it changes the scale settings of the Collision Bone making any vertices weighted to them spread out or contract.

4. The way your avatar changes shape in SL is mostly done by Morphs.  Let's take the leg muscularity morphs for example.  What LL did was in Maya took the default avatar shape "Ruth" and duplicated it creating a second avatar mesh.  Then they reshaped the legs skinnier.  They didn't do this by changing the scales of the mBones in the legs they did this by manually moving the vertices of the legs to a skinnier shape with knobbly knees and ankles.  With the duplicate's new shape selected they then also selected the default avatar shape mesh "Ruth" and created a Blend Shape.  This created a slider in Maya that when slid from a  setting of 0 to 1 changed the shape of the default avatar mesh "Ruth" to have the same shape as the duplicate.  If they had slid the slider to 0.5 setting "Ruth's" leg vertices would only move half way between the two shapes.  This is how the Morphs we see in SL were created.

Now we get to the real problem with Fitted Mesh.  Let's take the legs for example.  Because the leg morphs for skinny legs were made to have knobbly knees and ankles Fitted Mesh can not conform to this shape.  Why? because fitted mesh changes the scales of the Collision Bones of the legs.  This means any vertices of Fitted Mesh weighted to the leg Collision Bones all scale down evenly together eventually the knobbly knees and ankles will poke out.

This is not a problem of just the legs but of many areas of the avatar.  The breasts are a prime example.  Even with alphas Fitted Mesh clothing that is low cut or shows a lot of cleavage there will be very noticeable gaps between the mesh clothing and the breasts.

I had posted a plea to LL to add custom sliders to the Appearance menus that would allow residents to adjust the Collision Bone's scales and translates so we could adjust Fitted Mesh clothing for a tailored fit.  This would fix a lot of the major problems with Fitted Mesh but I am afraid my plea landed on deaf ears.  Here's a link to my post if you like to take a look at the photos I provided with the result from the custom sliders I had made for my viewer. 

http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Mesh/Custom-Sliders-for-Fitted-Mesh-a-Solution/td-p/2495979

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Cathy Foil wrote:

What LL did was in Maya took the default avatar shape "Ruth" and duplicated it creating a second avatar mesh.


This has always puzzled me. The default avatar we get to work with is not the same as Ruth (assuming Ruth is the avatar we get from the Ruth folder in the library or the one we get after a "test female", which in turn aren't the same either). For example, Ruth (library) has Torso muscles set to 43, where the avatar we can download has torso muscles of 50. Butt Size, Belly Size, Breast Cleavage/Buoyancy/Size, Foot Size and most, if not all, of the head sliders are not the same either.

The body sliders aren't that hard to figure out, although Breast Cleavage seems to be between two integer values in the default avatar (19.something) by the looks of it.

The differences between the default and "Test Female" avatar are even bigger, although the head is an almost match.

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I'm sure the community would love to see you expand your explorations.

Anyway, be glad you don't have to write an avastar :)

What I want for 3ds Max for personal use is a fraction of it and it's pretty mindbending if you ask me. Then again , if you want to label people, I'm a builder, not a scripter. That really does not help.

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Kwakkelde Kwak wrote:

This has always puzzled me. The default avatar we get to work with is not the same as Ruth (assuming Ruth is the avatar we get from the Ruth folder in the library or the one we get after a "test female", which in turn aren't the same either). For example, Ruth (library) has Torso muscles set to 43, where the avatar we can download has torso muscles of 50. Butt Size, Belly Size, Breast Cleavage/Buoyancy/Size, Foot Size and most, if not all, of the head sliders are not the same either.

The body sliders aren't that hard to figure out, although Breast Cleavage seems to be between two integer values in the default avatar (19.something) by the looks of it.

The differences between the default and "Test Female" avatar are even bigger, although the head is an
almost
match.

If you want the true shape of the default avatar in SL just in your inventory right mouse click on the Body Parts folder and create a new shape then wear it.  The shape this creates is the default avatar Ruth's shape.  If while wearing this shape you can export it as XML file or export out the OBJs for the head, upper body and lower body you will have the same shape as the one LL provides on Wiki.

The only real difference are the hands.  The true default avatar's shape the hands are relaxed not splayed out like in the LL Wiki files.

Hope that helps. :)

Cathy

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Uh-Oh

Well Cathy, that almost worked :)

The downloaded files I have are, as far as I know, extracted from the avatar files. These files are the ones from the wiki, from the avatar bank with the morphs and the one generated by SLAV. The default shape (new shape) is an exact match with all those files, except for one big thing and some minor ones. The files I have have a butt size of 30, where the butt size of a new shape inworld is 25. Also the area around the eyes and the lower side of the head (above the neck and under the jaw) aren't the same.

According to the avatar_lad file, the value should be 25. The avatar_lad file in the SLAV folder has this value too (value_max="1" value_min="0" value_default=".25") and it would only make sense that the plugin uses this file. Any idea what's going on?

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