Venting about security systems.

[Dumoktheartist]

I really enjoy second life, and part of that enjoyment is the fact that I can explore all ove rhte place.

But one of my serious pet peeves is security systems, Orbs and what not. I am consistently finding myself either locked up in a secudity field, teleported without warning or having to derez my vehicle or seriously  prevented from moving forward. While I understand the need to keep people from snooping and harrassing, is it really necessary to lock up a passing vehicle? Especially one that will exit your are in less than a minute? I mean, Seriously, could it be too mutcstemsh trouble to ask for at least some kind of advance warning before I have to derez and walk about another mile before I get to rez another vehicle and be on my merry way? I mean for Lucifer's sake what does a girl have to do to not keep being sent home while trying to get to know the area She is living in? 

I am not expecting any real response or changes, I just needed to get the fact that I REALLY HATE Security systems..WITH A HATEY HATE!

Thanks for letting me share.

[ObviousAltIsObvious]

this won't fix everything, but if you get a vehicle jammed in a ban line you can edit it out of the way. after, you might also have to stand/resit to get the physics turned back on, or toggle the engine off and on.

[Ethan Paslong]

for Lucifer's sake what does a girl have to do to not keep being sent home while trying to get to know the area She is living in? 

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ehm...buy your own estate? ..

 

i don't see the need to pay for land and let others enjoy the benefits.... it's for my use, next to that, if you fly high enough banlines won't bother you,  and only when you get near a skybox or platform orbs will reach you .. so if you don't violate other peoples privacy there;s nothing to complain about.

the second is, at private estates the owners are gods, they make the rules...

[Qie Niangao]

Although the OP doesn't explicitly mention Mainland, I think it's pretty clear from the mention of vehicles and rez areas that the problematic security systems are not on Estates.

Both security systems and banlines are a big hindrance to vehicle travel on Mainland roads. Owners who set them up on roadside parcels are being inconsiderate, intentionally or not -- and there's nothing to be done about it, so "venting" is about as much relief as is available.

Well, there used to be a minimum warning interval for security systems but I don't know how strictly it was ever enforced. That would be especially nice to have for flying vehicles because "if you fly high enough" is just wishful thinking, with hair-trigger security orbs waiting hidden in not-yet-rezzed skyboxes all over the grid.

[Senobia Xenga]

You didn't say, but are you traveling on roads or are you just barreling your way from parcel to parcel, yard to yard?

 

If you're traveling on roads that are meant for and designed for traffic, talk to the sim owner about the imposing security systems. At very least, they might send out a message to tennants saying, "Hey - could you...blah blah", even if it's likely to be ignored.

If you're just traveling from parcel to parcel, would your RL neighbors mind much if you traipsied through their yards on your 4 wheeler/bicycle/moped/**bleep** hoverbike? Imma guess so - so why would you expect any different here?

[Dumoktheartist]

Actually I am currently renting a property, And for the most part I have no interest in violating your privacy. And do you know how High I have to fly in order to avoid banlines? Even at 4k meters I am still stopped by Security orbs and immediately other teleported home. The whole point of being in a gigantic sandbox like this is to create and also interact with other people and check out what they have built. You know, Share ideas, converse, get to know other people,

I also enjoy taking long drives/flights/rides to enjoy the work my neighbors did.

As for my own privacy I refuse to use banlines when I have doors and tintable windows and I have damage turned on so If someone does intrude, I can shoot them, or worse.

I am not saying you shouldnt have privacy, Have your privacy, but it would be nice if I didn't have to be sent home just because my vehicle doesnt move at 100 km/s

[Dumoktheartist]

On the ground, I do my best to stay on the roads (Not always succeeding since My manual coordination isnt all that great) or I tend to fly using those **Bleeping** hoverbikes (I can control those alot easier and I crash less) or some kind of ship where I practice my maneuvering...Especially if I want to get from point a to b without teleporting. (Which does get old after a while.)

[Marigold Devin]

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Dumoktheartist wrote:

I really enjoy second life, and part of that enjoyment is the fact that I can explore all ove rhte place.

But one of my serious pet peeves is security systems, Orbs and what not. I am consistently finding myself either locked up in a secudity field, teleported without warning or having to derez my vehicle or seriously  prevented from moving forward. While I understand the need to keep people from snooping and harrassing, is it really necessary to lock up a passing vehicle? Especially one that will exit your are in less than a minute? I mean, Seriously, could it be too mutcstemsh trouble to ask for at least some kind of advance warning before I have to derez and walk about another mile before I get to rez another vehicle and be on my merry way? I mean for Lucifer's sake what does a girl have to do to not keep being sent home while trying to get to know the area She is living in? 

I am not expecting any real response or changes, I just needed to get the fact that I REALLY HATE Security systems..WITH A HATEY HATE!

Thanks for letting me share.

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I feel very much the same way as you. Just to have something pop down onto my screen to warn me about security orbs (or spam from stores I pass) when I'm jogging/running/biking/driving/camel riding/Giant Snailing around the Linden mainland highways really tees me off.

Why are people so incapable of setting their boundaries correctly?

The mainland highways are for everyone to enjoy/endure*

(*delete where applicable) 

 

[Ethan Paslong]

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 And do you know how High I have to fly in order to avoid banlines?

The whole point of being in a gigantic sandbox like this is to create and also interact with other people and check out what they have built. You know, Share ideas, converse, get to know other people,

 

Lines of floating red letters spelling out “no entry” that appears on the boundaries of a land parcel that your avatar is not allowed to enter. Ban lines are limited to a height of 5000 m above the terrain mesh when you're explicitly banned from the land. If the parcel is simply not pubic access or restricted to certain Residents/groups, then the lines go up to 50 m above the terrain mesh.

for you sl i maybe a sandbox ... keep in mind others PAY for that sandbox and don't do that for others who think it;s possible to demand access. You'r like a kid that doesn't get its way and starts stamping feet.... Land in sl IS NOT public property.

so if you indeed have to fly thousends meters high you anoyed the owner before already..otherwise you'd be at 50 m ....put your drawdistance on 60 an you will be able to see all you need.

But clearly you don't want only fly over....

[Dumoktheartist]

I have flown over and still got sent home, I have flown at a distance of 4km and STILL got sent home...And yes I do see ban lines and have avoiced them.the problem is that on a Public access road some people take their security a little too far. And Like I said I personally have no interest violating other people's privacy, but I do like looking at other people's builds in the hopes of learning how to put stuff together for my own home.

[Deej Kasshiki]

I share your pain, OP.

I used to do a lot of sailing, flying and driving all over the mainland. The primary reason I stopped was due to the very problematic sim crossings at the time but, the secondary reason was what the OP wrote about. Even at several thousand meters high people have security orbs in skyboxes with absolutely no delay before ejecting.

I understand that people want their virtual "privacy" and not be subject to griefers (despite the fact that there are many ways to circumvent door locks, security systems, etc.) but, their ability to keep people off their property ends at publically accessible Linden land, waterways and airspace.

I don't bother with banlines or security systems on my little mainland parcel to keep the area usable by anyone who wants to wander by. No one can steal anything and autoreturn is active so, the worst that happens is people close the blinds, leave doors open or change textures on furniture. To me, it's not a big deal to undo the changes and I've met a few really nice people who've wandered onto my parcel. For me the positives of keeping my land open far outweigh the negatives.

[SpiritSparrow Skydancer]

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Qie Niangao wrote:

Although the OP doesn't explicitly ment

ion Mainland, I think it's pretty clear from the mention of vehicles and rez areas that the problematic security systems are not

 on Estates.

Both security systems and banlines are a big hindrance to vehicle travel on Mainland roads. Owners who set them up on roadside parcels are being inconsiderate, intentionally or not -- and there's nothing to be done about it, so "venting" is about as much relief as is available.

Well, there used to be a minimum warning interval for security systems but I don't know how strictly it was ever enforced. That would be especially nice to have for flying vehicles because "if you fly high enough" is just wishful thinking, with hair-trigger security orbs waiting hidden in not-yet-rezzed skyboxes all over the grid.

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 Unless it is protected land or water, the person paying the tier has the right to decide. I have ban lines up on my place and i am on mainland.

 

[Dumoktheartist]

Noone is saying that you don't have the right to set up your ban lines. the issue I am talkng about, is tweaking so that people who like to explore can travel and have the ability to move about freely and you still having your privacy. WHile I get that griefers are a problem, I don't think that locking up passing vehicles or having Orbs reacting without warning is waranted. Speaking for myself, If I see a security orb give me the ten second warning, more often than not I have already passed the area. and am on my way to where ever I am going.

[Senobia Xenga]

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Dumoktheartist wrote:

I have damage turned on so If someone does intrude, I can shoot them, or worse.

---

Oh, okay. 

So long as no one starts shooting back 'or worse' when you intrude on them, then fair's fair, right?

 

/end sarcasm :matte-motes-asleep:

[Dumoktheartist]

You are confusing Intrusion with Passing through. When I am flying at double digit M/s above your house, I am not intruding. I dont get to look at your avatar doing god knows what, and I dont really interact with you. Now If I walk into your house and start dropping fart bombs or Ki-strikes, then I am intruding. When I teleport into your home and rate your performance at the fine art of "Friend tickling" or "Itch Scratching" then I am intruding. My riding an STNG Hover Bike and zooming over head at a height of 3-400 meters so that You don't even hear it above you, is not INTRUDING.

[Qie Niangao]

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Tarina Sewell wrote:

---

Qie Niangao wrote:

Although the OP doesn't explicitly ment

ion Mainland, I think it's pretty clear from the mention of vehicles and rez areas that the problematic security systems are not

 on Estates.

Both security systems and banlines are a big hindrance to vehicle travel on Mainland roads. Owners who set them up on roadside parcels are being inconsiderate, intentionally or not -- and there's nothing to be done about it, so "venting" is about as much relief as is available.

Well, there used to be a minimum warning interval for security systems but I don't know how strictly it was ever enforced. That would be especially nice to have for flying vehicles because "if you fly high enough" is just wishful thinking, with hair-trigger security orbs waiting hidden in not-yet-rezzed skyboxes all over the grid.

---

 Unless it is protected land or water, the person paying the tier has the right to decide. I have ban lines up on my place and i am on mainland.

 

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If you're not along a Linden road or waterway, nobody cares about banlines except probably your neighbors. (Along Linden roads and waterways, of course, they are a big problem, although less so the further one gets from the nearest sim border.)

In contrast, security orbs are a problem everywhere on Mainland (above whitelist banlines)  because they interfere with flight at any altitude they're located, and at realistic flight speeds and typical rezzing performance, whatever they're trying to protect is almost never visible until it's too late to be avoided.

Either way, as I said, there's nothing to be done about it because, yeah, "the person paying the tier has the right to decide." Same as RL, however, they have the right to be a loathsome pest about it, too.

[Treasure Ballinger]

A long, long time ago, (at least 6 years!) I read an almost identical plea, in another SL forum, far, far away (Resident Answers).  I owned a mainland parcel (I still own it today) with ban lines, or a security orb, I forget which, and also a couple of estate parcels, with orbs..  The person who made this plea on the forum, was very eloquent.  It was easy for me to understand, to get it.  At the time, I actually cared about people coming on my land uninvited, using my stuffz, ,etc.  (I no longer do)  It made perfect sense to me.  I removed my security orbs and ban lines, to allow people to fly or drive by unimpeded.  It just felt like the right thing to do.  I've never had any bad results from it.  Maybe some will read your post and react as I did.  I've never had that stuff up since.  All you can do is try, best wishes and happy travels!

[Phil Deakins]

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Qie Niangao wrote:

---

Tarina Sewell wrote:

---

Qie Niangao wrote:

Although the OP doesn't explicitly ment

ion Mainland, I think it's pretty clear from the mention of vehicles and rez areas that the problematic security systems are not

 on Estates.

Both security systems and banlines are a big hindrance to vehicle travel on Mainland roads. Owners who set them up on roadside parcels are being inconsiderate, intentionally or not -- and there's nothing to be done about it, so "venting" is about as much relief as is available.

Well, there used to be a minimum warning interval for security systems but I don't know how strictly it was ever enforced. That would be especially nice to have for flying vehicles because "if you fly high enough" is just wishful thinking, with hair-trigger security orbs waiting hidden in not-yet-rezzed skyboxes all over the grid.

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 Unless it is protected land or water, the person paying the tier has the right to decide. I have ban lines up on my place and i am on mainland.

 

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If you're not along a Linden road or waterway, nobody cares about banlines except probably your neighbors. (Along Linden roads and waterways, of course, they are a big problem, although less so the further one gets from the nearest sim border.)

In contrast, security orbs are a problem everywhere on Mainland (above whitelist banlines)  because they interfere with flight at any altitude they're located, and at realistic flight speeds and typical rezzing performance, whatever they're trying to protect is almost never visible until it's too late to be avoided.

Either way, as I said, there's nothing to be done about it because, yeah, "the person paying the tier has the right to decide." Same as RL, however, they have the right to be a loathsome pest about it, too.

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I have to disagree with you about that, Qie. Security devices above a reasonable flying level are never a problem, and a reasonable flying level is where the flyer can see the ground, so it's low level flying where difficulties can occur. Anyone who likes to fly above that sort of level needs to have a reasonable view distance so that they can avoid flying towards skyboxes and such, and if they fly to them, it's their own doing if they have a problem with a security device. The skies are not communal areas for flyers but it would be good if landowners left the low level areas security-free.

[Qie Niangao]

Myself, I've never been much of a fan of flying way up high, far above where anything of interest rezzes anyway, but others do it, and I can sympathize a bit: Dare not get within 50m of the ground, lest you get caught in a banline -- where the absolute height corresponding to 50m above ground level may jump suddenly, especially on the Atoll continent. So you kinda need to stay a few hundred meters above the ground, if you don't plan to pay close attention to navigation for a while.

One other problem is that draw distance doesn't much predict how far you'll see while moving, even with the new "interest list" viewer. It rezzes stuff much faster than the others, so I like it a lot, but still, if you happen to look away, you won't see anything coming up ahead. And with the other, older viewers (and all TPVs), I have to barely creep along to be able to rez anything at all before it's right upon me. (Yeah, I have reasonably good bandwidth. Try it yourself, crossing through multiple sims, and I think you'll find that before long, rezzing lags well behind where you're headed.)

[Phil Deakins]

I don't really mean a few hundred meters. That's quite low level. But if people want to fly above a few hundred, then I don't see any cause for complaint if they hit security devices. I don't know why anyone would want to fly so high that they can't see the ground, and I imagine that very few people actually do it. They know the sky isn't a communal space and they know that they might encounter skyboxes and such up there, so I've no sympathy with complaints that they were ejected when flying so high.

I completely agree with what you said about parcels that are next to roads and water, and I would agree too that we could be much more considerate about not protecting low levels of sky, and allow for trouble-free flying. But above that, I see no reason at all not to protect privacy. For instance, I have a box up at 3500m, in which I sometimes work and sometimes entertain. I don't have a security device up there but, if I did, I would have no sympathy with anyone who fell foul of it. I do hate security devices that give no warning though, regardless of the height above ground. I see no reason at all for that. It's just nasty.

[Perrie Juran]

The first couple of years I was in SL I got chastised a couple of times for having my skybox set at around 200 Meters because it interfered with aviation.  But I really liked it at that height because the sky looks different at 200m verses 1000m.  But also I never turned on my security those first couple of years.

During those three or so years I personally only ever had  (caught) two intruders.  There may have been more while I was off line but I didn't know about visitor trackers then.  Now I'm in a different location and I'm living higher in the sky and I am using a security orb and after two years it has only ejected two people.

I don't have any problem with people wanting to use security orbs.  It's their home.  My only issue is the short fuses people use.  My orb only covers the space immediately surrounding my sky box and I give people 60 seconds to leave.  For anyone flying that is more than sufficient time to clear my air space.  And for intruders, I'm being nice.....that should be plenty of time for them to figure out where they want to go before they get kicked out.

[Qie Niangao]

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Phil Deakins wrote:

I don't know why anyone would want to fly so high that they can't see the ground, and I imagine that very few people actually do it. 

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Well, I know one use case for very high altitude flying: aerial combat. At that height, you don't care about seeing stuff on the ground, nor any skyboxes or anything else except other fliers and their vehicles. The less there is to rez, the less lag, and the more fun for combat, I suppose.  In fact, I once had it in mind to make vehicles and "weapons" for this, using llCastRay when it was new (because projectile weapons are useless on land where rezzing is impossible). But sim crossing performance was so bad (for years) that it was hopelessly un-fun. That's a little better now, and might actually be worth trying again. Of course, it can only make sense on the Mainland where there's enough space one isn't always hitting the edge of the world, and I've been a notorious fan of Mainland all along.

Over the Blake Sea water sims might be the best place to start aerial battles, but even with all those contiguous Linden sims it would be easy to stray into private space.

In such cases it would be only a mild distraction to get a security orb warning -- just something to bat off the screen quickly because you're almost surely out of range long before the message arrives -- but if the orb is set to eject without warning (which is how we got started in this thread, I think), then it would usually crash the viewer, too.  On the plus side, that might leave the vehicle stranded inside the orb-protected airspace... one hopes to greet the owner right in the middle of their humperbunker.

Way back when, there was some talk about reserving altitude bands for specific uses, such that landowners simply could not eject intruders at those heights -- with other heights that simply could not be intruded upon nor viewed (similar in that way to the more recent "privacy parcel" feature). I'm sure none of that will ever happen, but it would solve a lot of these problems by making it harder for landowners and explorers to drive each other crazy for no good reason.

[Phil Deakins]

Talk about a flying zone (altitude) was in the old thread that was mentioned earlier in this one. I'm not aware that LL was ever involved in such deliberations.

Ok, arial combat is a reason to fly high. The few people who do that need to use air space that they know is free from stuff, such as over the sea, as you suggested. I know of no reason for arial combatters to think they have right to that particular hobby when, to do it, they choose to use other people's 'land'. If they do it over other people's land, they know they may come across difficulties, so they don't have any cause for complaint when they do.

The idea of a free-fly zone, quite low down, is excellent. If my memory is correct, it would satisfy those in the old thread who wanted to fly freely. But I see no reason to accomodate those who want free-flying access at all heights on other people's property.

I don't think anyone disagrees with the idea that security systems should not be instant. I do think that at least some of those who use instant ones don't realise what it causes. There was a parcel in a sim where I had land that had a non-instant security device operating. I tested it and it was impossible to fly across the parce's shortest route before being sent Home. Actually, it was probably instant but the scan frequency was every few seconds so it picked you up anything up to a few seconds after you'd started to fly across the parcel. I IMed the owner about the problem and it was changed. S/he probably didn't realise the problems it caused other people.

Someone mentioned something earlier in thread and it occured to me that a device could give a warning to a person who is not in the secured area but getting close to it. For instance, if the secured area is, say, 30m in diameter, the device could give a caution to someone in a,say,60m radius, telling them that they are approaching a secured area. It may not be much but it's a thought.

[Phil Deakins]

You operate your security extremely well, Perrie. Unfortunately some people aren't as considerate, or don't realise the effect of quick release, ar are just plain selfish/mean.

[Perrie Juran]

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Phil Deakins wrote:

You operate your security extremely well, Perrie. Unfortunately some people aren't as considerate, or don't realise the effect of quick release, ar are just plain selfish/mean.

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When a lot of people start SL they have no knowledge about land ownership in SL.  It could be easy to think that people would automatically know that a 'man's home is his castle' here but the case is too often they don't.  When I started SL, the first girl I dated new a lot of places.  It didn't occur to me at first that we were tresspassing.  But it didn't take me long to find out.

I am pretty nice about my orb settings.  At 700 meters it reallly does take a deliberate act for someone to get to my sky box.

A few people I've asked about their short timers have responded, "Do you really want someone standing there a whole minute while you are doing the dirty."  I guess if you were constantly getting intruders it could get irksome.  But in the almost seven years I've been in SL, the number of times I have had strangers show up while I was at home is almost zero.