Is it safe to wear fitted mesh yet

[SpiritSparrow Skydancer]

 Hello! So, basicly what do you think? Is it safe to wear fitted mesh yet at social gatherings?

I wonder how many people have upgraded and how many refuse to now. Since a few of the people I buy mesh templates from are dispursing fitted mesh (and I have a few group gifts) I was wondering if I will be poking people in the eye and bullying them with my massively distorted mesh attachemnts or if it will be unicorns and rainbows. :matte-motes-big-grin:

[Pussycat Catnap]

Its been safe since mid February when it went live on the grid. BEFORE that point almost every current TPV made updates in advance to be ready.

SInce mid March the last and final holdout: Firestorm, added fitted.

So now if there's any luddite who can't see it - its their own fault for not keeping up with whatever viewer they use.

 

[SpiritSparrow Skydancer]

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Pussycat Catnap wrote:

Its been safe since mid February when it went live on the grid. BEFORE that point almost every current TPV made updates in advance to be ready.

SInce mid March the last and final holdout: Firestorm, added fitted.

So now if there's any luddite who can't see it - its their own fault for not keeping up with whatever viewer they use.

 

---

well, not everyone is current. My friend on signularity cant see it.   not sure his version.  ** edit** also it takes a pretty powerful computer to run the viewers now..  and you cant blame people for not upgrading. Im not sure what a luddite is.

[Sassy Romano]

I've met several who still haven't upgraded for whatever reason. I'm part caring that someone else doesn't have a current viewer.

[SaraCarena]

Mesh is just messy on so many levels atm but really quite nice on others. Seen one guy in a fitted whose top trailed 100 meters off into the distance when I was on catznip viewer which doesn`t have fitted yet. Worn it too and...ummm...will get better I expect.

If anyone pokes you for spoiling their view just tell them they`re bald and you can see through their body :matte-motes-wink-tongue:

Let me quote Joy Behar "So what, who cares!".....just party :matte-motes-big-grin-evil:

[Pussycat Catnap]

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Tarina Sewell wrote:

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Pussycat Catnap wrote:

Its been safe since mid February when it went live on the grid. BEFORE that point almost every current TPV made updates in advance to be ready.

SInce mid March the last and final holdout: Firestorm, added fitted.

So now if there's any luddite who can't see it - its their own fault for not keeping up with whatever viewer they use.

 

---

well, not everyone is current. My friend on signularity cant see it.   not sure his version.

---

Singularity had fitted mesh at the same time as the official viewer, if not even earlier. Your friend needs to stay current with their chosen TPV. Their refusal to do so should not be something holding everyone else back.

I do blame people for not upgrading. Get over it - click the download. Anyone who refuses to deserves a broken SL.

 

 

[Sassy Romano]

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Tarina Sewell wrote

. Im not sure what a luddite is.

---

Luddite  (ˈlʌdaɪt)
— n
1.	any of the textile workers opposed to mechanization who rioted and organized machine-breaking between 1811 and 1816
2.	any opponent of industrial change or innovation
— adj
3.	of or relating to the Luddites
[C19: alleged to be named after Ned Ludd,  an 18th-century Leicestershire workman, who destroyed industrial machinery]

[Dillon Levenque]

---

Sassy Romano wrote:

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Tarina Sewell wrote

. Im not sure what a luddite is.

---

Luddite   (ˈlʌdaɪt)
— n
1.	any of the textile workers opposed to mechanization who rioted and organized machine-breaking between 1811 and 1816
2.	any opponent of industrial change or innovation
— adj
3.	of or relating to the Luddites
[C19: alleged to be named after Ned Ludd,   an 18th-century Leicestershire workman, who destroyed industrial machinery]

---

 

The all too frequent issue is that people who simply can't be arsed to upgrade (I've shamelessly stolen that expression from the British people who frequent this forum: it's one that is much too good to ignore) are often called Luddites.

Lots of people, myself included, are perfectly willing to clunk along on outdated hardware and software as long as it's doing what we need. In my case, a big change is in the offing, as I am in the midst of one of my rare computer upgrades, but that has nothing to do with fitted mesh or viewers or anything else. I've been okay and stayed current with SL; I've just needed to adapt to not being able to go full tilt.

Back when mesh (not fitted mesh: mesh) first came out and everyone wearing it looked like a blockhead or a donut, I didn't complain. I didn't blame them. I KNEW what the problem was. I just wasn't motivated to upgrade. Eventuallly I was.

People like me aren't Luddites. We're in no way opposed to innovation. We just aren't mad for it. We don't think anyone not using the latest and greatest is somehow lost to history.

To be clear: Sassy, I know you only posted the definition and I thank you for that. My post was really more of a reply to Pussycat Catnap's callout.

Well, that was dumb. Forgot all about the OP. Tarina, if your viewer shows your fitted mesh stuff the way you think it should look, wear it! You're not 'poking anyone in the eye' if they can't resolve it. If anyone complains you can gently (or not, depending on the vehemence of the complaint) explain that they need to look into downloading an up-to-date version of their viewer. That's for them to do, not for you to look out for. Flaunt.

 

[Sy Beck]

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Tarina Sewell wrote:

well, not everyone is current. My friend on signularity cant see it.   not sure his version.  ** edit** also it takes a pretty powerful computer to run the viewers now..  and you cant blame people for not upgrading. Im not sure what a luddite is.

 

---

I believe there are people in Africa and other forgotten parts of humanity who are not wearing Gucci or DKNY yet.  Should I downsize to a loincloth too?  I'd hate to expose my powerful income.  Gawd I wish this was just a game and not something really important!

[Perrie Juran]

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Dillon Levenque wrote:

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Sassy Romano wrote:

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Tarina Sewell wrote

. Im not sure what a luddite is.

---

Luddite   (ˈlʌdaɪt)
— n
1.	any of the textile workers opposed to mechanization who rioted and organized machine-breaking between 1811 and 1816
2.	any opponent of industrial change or innovation
— adj
3.	of or relating to the Luddites
[C19: alleged to be named after Ned Ludd,   an 18th-century Leicestershire workman, who destroyed industrial machinery]

---

 

The all too frequent issue is that people who simply can't be arsed to upgrade (I've shamelessly stolen that expression from the British people who frequent this forum: it's one that is much too good to ignore) are often called Luddites.

Lots of people, myself included, are perfectly willing to clunk along on outdated hardware and software as long as it's doing what we need. In my case, a big change is in the offing, as I am in the midst of one of my rare computer upgrades, but that has nothing to do with fitted mesh or viewers or anything else. I've been okay and stayed current with SL; I've just needed to adapt to not being able to go full tilt.

Back when mesh (not fitted mesh: mesh) first came out and everyone wearing it looked like a blockhead or a donut, I didn't complain. I didn't blame them. I KNEW what the problem was. I just wasn't motivated to upgrade. Eventuallly I was.

People like me aren't Luddites. We're in no way opposed to innovation. We just aren't mad for it. We don't think anyone not using the latest and greatest is somehow lost to history.

To be clear: Sassy, I know you only posted the definition and I thank you for that. My post was really more of a reply to Pussycat Catnap's callout.

Well, that was dumb. Forgot all about the OP. Tarina, if your viewer shows your fitted mesh stuff the way you think it should look, wear it! You're not 'poking anyone in the eye' if they can't resolve it. If anyone complains you can gently (or not, depending on the vehemence of the complaint) explain that they need to look into downloading an up-to-date version of their viewer. That's for them to do, not for you to look out for. Flaunt.

 

---

But, but, but, but, but don't you know we are holding back innovation.

We're all standing in the way of progress!

We need to quit reading by candle light and get one of them new fangled incadescent light bulbs.

And by golly, if every time Nvidia releases a new graphics card, if you're not the first on your block to get one, you should stay off the Interwebs.

[Micheal Moonlight]

With some of the bugs introduced with fitted mesh code, it's no surprise some people won't upgrade.

I downgraded to pre-fitted, and so did everyone else I know due to the male av rendering problem.

[bigmoe Whitfield]

"refuses to upgrade"  nope, upgraded, got 5fps with all viewers, uninstalled and moved back to pre-fitted.   if it does not work right out of the box then there is no reason for me to use it.   suffice my machine is less then 2 years old.  suffice I should not have to work to make it work.   when they can get their heads out of their collective asses and check bug reports and jira issues on this and then push a patch to everybody that will fix this collective mess they have thrown on us, then I will move to fitted as it stands right now. I'm using a tvp to blacklist all things fitted. so I can get my typical 50fps.

[Dillon Levenque]

Stop yelling, you'll blow out the candle.;-)

 

And besides, we're supposed to be using flourescent lights now—them incandescents are old news. Get with the program.

[Coby Foden]

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Tarina Sewell wrote:

 Hello! So, basicly what do you think? Is it safe to wear fitted mesh yet at social gatherings?

---

What I think is that of course it is safe. Fitted Mesh is officially released by Linden Lab. Thus it's safe and perfectly all right because it is an official SL feature. It does not matter the least bit how those who have not updated their viewers might see us - half naked, distorted or something else, it's no concern for the Fitted Mesh wearer.

When a new feature is released why should we wait until "the majority" of users will see the new feature? And what is the majority after all? Is it 60, 70, 80, 90, 95 or 99 per cent of the users? And how do we know the percentage of people who see the new feature at any given time? Surely Linden Lab knows, but that info is not readily given to us users.

I think that even after two years from now there will still be people who will not see Fitted Mesh properly. Should we wait until then, or even longer before wearing Fitted Mesh? I think not. I take it that when any new feature is released by the Lab then it indeed is ready to be used. No need to start the waiting game.

 

So if somebody comments or complains :smileymad: seing :smileysurprised: us like in the left picture below - half nude and distortred:

... then we can say: "Hey! Linden Lab has given me the permission to wear this anywhere."  :smileyhappy: :smileyvery-happy: :smileytongue:

[Perrie Juran]

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Dillon Levenque wrote:

Stop yelling, you'll blow out the candle.;-)

 

And besides, we're supposed to be using flourescent lights now—them incandescents are old news. Get with the program.

---

I tried filling a jar with lightening bugs but  they just didn't glow long enough.

[Dillon Levenque]

This is even more of a derail than usual for me, but I just had to put this somewhere and since I mentioned I was in the middle of an upgrade earlier in this thread I wanted to publish the results. My old computer, parts of which I've had since I started SL in 2008 (still using the original IDE hard drive—how many IDE drives have you seen lately?—was getting so wonky I couldn't run the latest version of Firestorm OR the SL viewer. I fell back on Singularity.

I completed the upgrade on Saturday. For posterity, I logged in on the old box a while ago to capture the specs. Here they are:

Singularity Viewer 1.8.5 (5617) Jan 28 2014 23:06:36 (Singularity)
Release Notes

Grid: Second Life

Built with MSVC version 1600

You are at 262267.9, 252231.7, 1.8 in Hatton (1024, 985) located at sim9254.agni.lindenlab.com (216.82.42.190:13012)
Second Life RC BlueSteel 14.03.07.287758
Release Notes

CPU: Intel® Pentium® Dual  CPU  E2200  @ 2.20GHz (2200.01 MHz)
Memory: 2048 MB
OS Version: Microsoft Windows XP Service Pack 3 (Build 2600) compatibility mode. real ver: 6.0 (Build 2900)
Graphics Card Vendor: NVIDIA Corporation
Graphics Card: GeForce 9500 GT/PCIe/SSE2
Windows Graphics Driver Version: 6.14.0013.3221
OpenGL Version: 3.3.0

Viewer SSE Version: SSE2
libcurl Version: libcurl/7.21.1 OpenSSL/1.0.0g zlib/1.2.5 c-ares/1.7.1
J2C Decoder Version: OpenJPEG: 1.5.2
Audio Driver Version: FMOD Ex 4.44.25
Qt Webkit Version: 4.7.1 (version number hard-coded)
Packets Lost: 7/454 (1.5%)

Then I logged in the same alt on my new PC. Voila

Firestorm 4.6.1 (40478) Mar 10 2014 05:38:17 (Firestorm-Releasex64) with OpenSimulator support
Release Notes

You are at 129.0, 69.8, 2.3 in Hatton located at sim9254.agni.lindenlab.com (216.82.42.190:13012)
SLURL: http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Hatton/129/70/2
(global coordinates 262,273.0, 252,230.0, 2.3)
Second Life RC BlueSteel 14.03.07.287758
Release Notes

CPU: Intel® Core i5-3330 CPU @ 3.00GHz (2993.24 MHz)
Memory: 8157 MB
OS Version: Microsoft Windows 7 64-bit Service Pack 1 (Build 7601)
Graphics Card Vendor: NVIDIA Corporation
Graphics Card: GeForce GTX 770/PCIe/SSE2

Windows Graphics Driver Version: 9.18.0013.3182
OpenGL Version: 4.4.0

RestrainedLove API: (disabled)
libcurl Version: libcurl/7.24.0 OpenSSL/1.0.1e zlib/1.2.6 c-ares/1.10.0
J2C Decoder Version: KDU v7.3.2
Audio Driver Version: FMOD Ex 4.44.26
Qt Webkit Version: 4.7.1 (version number hard-coded)
Voice Server Version: Vivox 4.5.0009.17865

Settings mode: Firestorm
Viewer Skin: Firestorm (Grey)
Font Used: Deja Vu (96)
Draw distance: 64
Bandwidth: 1500
LOD factor: 2
Render quality: High-Ultra (6/7)
Texture memory: 512 MB (1)
Built with MSVC version 1600
Packets Lost: 31/874 (3.5%)

I was stunned the first time I opened the Statistics viewer, after logging in and setting my graphics preferences. I'd never in all this time seen an FPS count higher than about 35 or 40 at home, and when I looked with the new PC I couldn't see the red bar that shows current FPS. I thought, "Holy crap! Did I do something wrong? Is FPS at zero?". Then I read the number. FPS at 156, so completely off the chart. Wowee.

ps: the location in my spec printouts is my alt's last location, not my home. You can find him there on what I call 'Tithe Tuesdays' when he logs in to pay me my L$300.

pps: Having seen your pictures, Coby, I think I might downgrade my version of Firestorm to one that does not support Fitted Mesh. The big trailing across the view thing is bad, but I rather like the rest ;-).

[Coby Foden]

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Dillon Levenque wrote:

 

pps: Having seen your pictures, Coby, I think I might downgrade my version of Firestorm to one that does not support Fitted Mesh. The big trailing across the view thing is bad, but I rather like the rest ;-).

---

:matte-motes-bashful-cute-2:  :matte-motes-big-grin:

[SpiritSparrow Skydancer]

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Sy Beck wrote:

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Tarina Sewell wrote:

well, not everyone is current. My friend on signularity cant see it.   not sure his version.  ** edit** also it takes a pretty powerful computer to run the viewers now..  and you cant blame people for not upgrading. Im not sure what a luddite is.

 

---

I believe there are people in Africa and other forgotten parts of humanity who are not wearing Gucci or DKNY yet.  Should I downsize to a loincloth too?  I'd hate to expose my powerful income.  Gawd I wish this was just a game and not something really important!

---

 Yes, loincloth works. But do provide pictures for some lol later. You seem a bit to uptight to pull it off though.

[SpiritSparrow Skydancer]

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Dillon Levenque wrote:

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Sassy Romano wrote:

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Tarina Sewell wrote

. Im not sure what a luddite is.

---

Luddite   (ˈlʌdaɪt)
— n
1.	any of the textile workers opposed to mechanization who rioted and organized machine-breaking between 1811 and 1816
2.	any opponent of industrial change or innovation
— adj
3.	of or relating to the Luddites
[C19: alleged to be named after Ned Ludd,   an 18th-century Leicestershire workman, who destroyed industrial machinery]

---

 

The all too frequent issue is that people who simply can't be arsed to upgrade (I've shamelessly stolen that expression from the British people who frequent this forum: it's one that is much too good to ignore) are often called Luddites.

Lots of people, myself included, are perfectly willing to clunk along on outdated hardware and software as long as it's doing what we need. In my case, a big change is in the offing, as I am in the midst of one of my rare computer upgrades, but that has nothing to do with fitted mesh or viewers or anything else. I've been okay and stayed current with SL; I've just needed to adapt to not being able to go full tilt.

Back when mesh (not fitted mesh: mesh) first came out and everyone wearing it looked like a blockhead or a donut, I didn't complain. I didn't blame them. I KNEW what the problem was. I just wasn't motivated to upgrade. Eventuallly I was.

People like me aren't Luddites. We're in no way opposed to innovation. We just aren't mad for it. We don't think anyone not using the latest and greatest is somehow lost to history.

To be clear: Sassy, I know you only posted the definition and I thank you for that. My post was really more of a reply to Pussycat Catnap's callout.

Well, that was dumb. Forgot all about the OP. Tarina, if your viewer shows your fitted mesh stuff the way you think it should look, wear it! You're not 'poking anyone in the eye' if they can't resolve it. If anyone complains you can gently (or not, depending on the vehemence of the complaint) explain that they need to look into downloading an up-to-date version of their viewer. That's for them to do, not for you to look out for. Flaunt.

 

---

 I have spoken to a few people and many have not upgraded. Anyhow, Thanks for the info on that..

 

 

 

 

 

[Crim Mip]

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Tarina Sewell wrote:

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well, not everyone is current. My friend on signularity cant see it.   not sure his version.  ** edit** also it takes a pretty powerful computer to run the viewers now..  and you cant blame people for not upgrading. Im not sure what a luddite is.

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Um if by 'powerful computer' you mean one that was maybe mid range at best 5 years ago when I got my current system, then yeah, it takes a powerful computer. Granted I can't run in ultra, but I don't have to minimize everything either to get 20+ FPS most places. At this point a pretty low end new system with maybe a $50 graphic card upgrade would outdo my system with no problems at all. 

[Crim Mip]

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bigmoe Whitfield wrote:

"refuses to upgrade"  nope, upgraded, got 5fps with all viewers, uninstalled and moved back to pre-fitted.   if it does not work right out of the box then there is no reason for me to use it.   suffice my machine is less then 2 years old.  suffice I should not have to work to make it work.   when they can get their heads out of their collective asses and check bug reports and jira issues on this and then push a patch to everybody that will fix this collective mess they have thrown on us, then I will move to fitted as it stands right now. I'm using a tvp to blacklist all things fitted. so I can get my typical 50fps.

__________________________________________________________________________________________

If you can't be bothered to change a few settings to get things working then you deserve to see the virtual world with less than optimal appearance. Given the number of different hardware combinations, there is no way it can work 'out of the box' for everyone. Also, you aren't actually getting 50FPS regardless of what the meter is telling you. The absolute fastest rate that the SL servers will feed frame data is 45 and that's under ideal conditions. If you're moving around or crossing sim borders, your true frame rate might hit 40. The rest of those frames are just repeat rendering of the same frame while the viewer waits for the next full frame to come in. In all likelyhood, I doubt you'd be able to see a difference between your viewer display and somebody else who was getting a consistent 30 fps. But you just go ahead and worry about that mostly meaningless number. I'd rather see the new content correctly.

 

[Crim Mip]

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Coby Foden wrote:

---

What I think is that of course it is safe. Fitted Mesh is officially released by Linden Lab. Thus it's safe and perfectly all right because it is an official SL feature. It does not matter the least bit how those who have not updated their viewers might see us - half naked, distorted or something else, it's no concern for the Fitted Mesh wearer.

When a new feature is released why should we wait until "the majority" of users will see the new feature? And what is the majority after all? Is it 60, 70, 80, 90, 95 or 99 per cent of the users? And how do we know the percentage of people who see the new feature at any given time? Surely Linden Lab knows, but that info is not readily given to us users.

__________________________________________________________________________________________

It's been safe to wear since it came out, but most people would rather know they aren't going to look like some mutant to most of those who will see them. Also, most content creators aren't going to jump in until they are convinced a fair percentage can see it as well because not only will customers who havent upgrated complain, but they don't want their products out there looking bad. Like it or not, this currently means it's pretty much a go when Firestorm adds the feature which they have. Adding fitted mesh capability was a relatively easy bit of code to merge in. Not to dis anyone's favorite viewer, but with LL, Firestorm, Singularity, and Cool VL having the feature, I see no reason not to wear or create fitted mesh at this point. 

 

[Sassy Romano]

Incorrect there Crim. Some effects such as animations, llTargetOmega, viewer view itself aare all client side rendered and thus will achieve whatever frame rate the graphics card can achieve.

 

These have nothing to do with the number of processing frame events that the simulator performs.

[Dillon Levenque]

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Sassy Romano wrote:

Incorrect there Crim. Some effects such as animations, llTargetOmega, viewer view itself aare all client side rendered and thus will achieve whatever frame rate the graphics card can achieve.

 

These have nothing to do with the number of processing frame events that the simulator performs.

---

 

I have a question about that. I just built a new PC and it's a major upgrade—mostly because my old one was majorly outdated. The first time I logged in I tweaked my graphics settings up, turned things on that I'd normally kept turned off, and then opened the statistics bar.

I almost freaked out because the little red line in the FPS meter was missing. I thought I was at zero. Turned out it was at 150 something (I was standing in a fairly plain room and there were no other avs on the minimap: with my old PC I'd typically see about 50). I knew that that kind of a frame rate exceeded anything I could SEE, but does it actually increase the speed at which other functions happen? From your comment it sounds as if it could.

[Madelaine McMasters]

Although the statistics bar may indicate 150fps, anything above the refresh rate for your monitor is pure waste (add that to the "pretty ugly" list). The monitor on my iMac refreshes at 60Hz. If SL were rendering at 120Hz, it would draw the scene twice per frame time, but only one of the scenes (or a mashup of two) would make it to the display.

I wonder if there's a max frame rate debug setting. If there is, it should be set to the display frame rate.

I recall a couple years back that some game geek guy was bragging that his video card rendered 3000 FPS. I don't think he was interesed to learn that 98% of those frames were overwritten before they could be seen.

There are graphics cards and monitors that support 120Hz and could take advantage of higher SL frame rates.