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Sephina Frostbite

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So about a week ago I was begged by my rl friends to show them sl. So I did. They loved it. They made rules and they respected them. Well I noticed that the boyfriend was spending day and night on it. My friend asked him if he could help with the baby and house hold work. Instead of cutting hours back he broke up with her. 3 years they were together. She is devastating and he's in denial that he is addicted. They were getting married and trying for a 2nd baby and he threw it away for sl. I can't help but feel it's my fault. What advice can I give him to maybe help. I wish I never showed then the game.

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While i have my own experience; no i won´t tell, i doubt that SL (or whatever) can break a healthy relation. Not sure if there is something anyway.

This is not your fault. SL is not like any illegal drug - so it can act like.

For all relation problems there is just one way - TALK 

If he just escaped his reliabilty that easy then it was like he only waited for an excuse to do.

Monti

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I'm with Monti. I've seen cases of real addiction, and I've seen how people get when they get sucked into SL; it's not the same. People like to escape to Second Life, but it takes someone with a special level of don't-give-a-damn to abandon dependent children. It's probable that this guy just enjoyed Second Life more than his life - which sucks, but it's not addiction.

It's not really anyones fault but his that he was unable to communicate his desire to escape the current and impending pressures of his life. It wouldn't really have mattered what you'd showed him, people who are looking to escape will do so eventually. I find it fairly funny that they tried to make 'rules' about Second Life - like they weren't able to be grown-up about it in the first instance. Rules and constraining behaviour are rarely a solution to this kind of problem - resentment grows. Relationships die all the time. If all it took was an hour-long tutorial in SL, this guy had been looking to make the jump for some time. I know it's been quite conclusively proven in studies that the most volitile time in a monogamous relationship is after a child arrives, within the first 8 years of cohabitation/marriage.

Predictable, but not your or Second Life's fault. Could just have easily have been alcohol, gambling, fast cars. Everyone bolts under the right circumstances.

I wouldn't bother with advice. He's an adult, he knows that actions have consequences and it's only his responsibility to repair things with the mother of his child - if he wants to. Casting yourself as the relationship councillor will only hurt you further if negotiations fail, and you'll feel even more 'in the middle'. Skip this entirely.

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Sephina Frostbite wrote: [...] What advice can I give him to maybe help? [...]

Barely a week in SL and he leaves a woman, a child and a life for it?

I'd say a good psychiatrist.

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I agree that your female friend should be the one to receive your attention now, but please don't be surprised if one day, maybe a glass of wine too many she does verbally blame you, because after all you introduced them to SL BUT let it bounce off you. It's easier to blame someone else than look inside the reality of the relationship.

Him on the other hand, maybe in his mind his real life wasn't the way he thought it should be. His house too small, his car not flashy enough, his personal looks not how he sees himself in his own mind etc etc - and then came SL. The world where you can go from living in a pokey 1 bedroomed flat to a 6 roomed mansion, with an Aston Martin parked outside, a body you've craved your entire life and as good as that makes him feel, the worse he'll feel it on the outside in RL. 

It's easy to say that as a couple they were happy, but the reality is no-one really knows anothers relationship as it really is and it's very easy to gloss over the bad stuff by sticking your head in the sand. 

Please don't blame yourself for any of this. If it wasn't SL it would eventually have been something else. All you can do now is just be her friend. Maybe their relationship needs a break and one day, if he truly loves his family, he will crawl back - hopefully sooner rather than later.

Be strong, for you and for her xxx

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It's a good thing that they found out their problems now before they got married and had another child. 

Maybe the freedom in SL offered an escape from a life that was becoming more and more confining?  Whose idea was it to get married? to have another child?  Who made the "rules" governing the approved amount of time on SL?  From what little info you gave I could speculate that he needs to grow up, take more responsibility for his child and the household tasks, become a little less selfish and that she saw his faults and was trying to push him into the behavior that she wanted by setting up rules for him as if he was a child. 

Of course I don't know what their situation really was, and maybe you don't know completely either, but they need to talk honestly with each other explaining how they each feel and what they want in a non-accusing way.  They should do that whether they get back together or not, for the sake of their child.

You can't force another to behave the way you want. You either have to accept them the way they are or cut your losses.  If after honestly conveying the problem you have with a situation and how you feel and what you want without blaming the other, they may change their behavior to please you.  Maybe they just didn't realize how unhappy you where.  But trying to force or manipulate them into changing will produce a lifetime of misery for all concerned. 

 

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Hey Seph...

First off, don't beat yourself up over this...you may have given him the gun and showed him how to use it, but it's ultimately HE who pulled the trigger. The best they can get you for is an accessory....:matte-motes-sunglasses-3:

The two of them need to seek professional help. Some guys, even though they may say they want to get married, aren't ready for it. They need to talk about their issues, especially since they have a child together, and work them out. Help as much as you can, but don't intrude.

Is she blaming you? If she's not, then it's not your fault. Relax..support her as best you can...and try to get them to seek professional help.

HUGS

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On a more serious note: You showed it to him about a week ago and you said after that week he left his wife and the child. Not even SL is so powerful to do that alone. Their disagreement about the time  he should spend for his new hobby was probably just the top of the iceberg.

I imagine that this was just the last thing he needed to quit the whole marriage and I highly doubt that he can be called addicted after a week (SL has a rough learning curve and is therefore less adicitive to most people within a short timespan...of course over a longer time period it can be very well addictive).

Just think back to the last new thing you got, or any new hobby you started. You probably wanted to do it as much as you can. So imagine him, being full of joy for SL, and suddenly his wife comes in and complains about him doing not enough work in the household. He probably got angry, then she got angry and then he just decieded "thats it!"

Such things do not happen out of nowhere. They probably had continungly small fights or he was frustrated for a long time and both didn't manage to speak openly about it.

 

Just don't think that its your fault. It could have been any other thing that would have resulted in the same situation. Be glad it happens now, before they have another child.

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She didn't force any rules on each other. They both said what they felt was okay and what wasn't. They talked it out for days. Rules aren't constrictive. They are adults. He started going on from the moment his eyes were open to the moment he closed them at 5 am. She asked if he could help her out because she was doing everything in the house and was exhausted because she was sick. He said she's not his mom and he broke it up. She didn't hound him. She never said he couldn't play. She just wanted her partner back.

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Tex Monday wrote:

Hey Seph...

First off, don't beat yourself up over this...you may have given him the gun and showed him how to use it, but it's ultimately HE who pulled the trigger. The best they can get you for is an accessory....:matte-motes-sunglasses-3:

The two of them need to seek professional help. Some guys, even though they may say they want to get married, aren't ready for it. They need to talk about their issues, especially since they have a child together, and work them out. Help as much as you can, but don't intrude.

Is she blaming you? If she's not, then it's not your fault.
Relax..support her as best you can...and try to get them to seek professional help.

HUGS

It's not Sephina's fault Tex, even if whe woman does blame her. It sounds like their relationship was near detonation and anything could have set it off. As described, they begged her to show them SL. Sure, blame will be assigned, probably incorrectly.

Sephina, you have my sympathy. I've seen relationships blow up, it's not pretty. Don't allow either of them to make you the patsy for something which is their fault. They're adults, expect them to take responsibility for their actions. If you don't you're treating them like children.

Hugs,

Maddy

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Yeah I'm going to tell her that at least she knows now. Maybe their relationship wasn't as wonderful as she thought it was. Honestly my sister got addicted to sl and to be honest before I ended my abusive marriage I was so depressed I did as well. He used to smoke full cigs and now he take a puff or two in fear of missing something in sl. He's been in sl closer to 2 weeks now. I say he's addicted because I asked him how he felt about what he's done. He said he doesn't want to lose sl and that he feels like if he doesn't have it he go crazy. He didn't eat for days so he didn't have to get off the computer. Its bad. She doesn't blame me at all. It just makes me feel sick that I started something that he can't get away from.

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Sephina Frostbite wrote:

Yeah I'm going to tell her that at least she knows now. Maybe their relationship wasn't as wonderful as she thought it was. Honestly my sister got addicted to sl and to be honest before I ended my abusive marriage I was so depressed I did as well. He used to smoke full cigs and now he take a puff or two in fear of missing something in sl. He's been in sl closer to 2 weeks now. I say he's addicted because I asked him how he felt about what he's done. He said he doesn't want to lose sl and that he feels like if he doesn't have it he go crazy. He didn't eat for days so he didn't have to get off the computer. Its bad. She doesn't blame me at all. It just makes me feel sick that I started something that he can't get away from.

If he already knew what SL was (because he asked you to introduce him to SL, so he probably knew it existed and that it sounds interesting to him), he maybe would have tried it alone and without your help a little bit later.

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Madelaine McMasters wrote:


It's not Sephina's fault Tex, even if whe woman does blame her. It sounds like their relationship was near detonation and anything could have set it off. As described, they begged her to show them SL. Sure, b
lame will be assigned, probably incorrectly.

 I agree that it's not Seph's fault. I was mearly saying (unsuccessfully) that if her friend doesn't blame her, then she (Seph) shouldn't think that she (her friend) thinks it her (Seph's) fault. I (Tex, the idiot :matte-motes-sunglasses-3:) was obviously unable to relay those thoughts to you (Maddy) in a manner that everyone (forum dwellers) could understand.  

Hope that unmuddys the waters....

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How old is their baby?  If it is pretty new then your friend is probably exhausted, her hormones are all wonky (probably has no sex drive), can't get enough sleep, because she has taken on full responsibility for a tiny baby she worries.  Her emotions are at the surface.  Men don't usually have as much of an issue and don't understand what women are going through.  Even if they start doing more to help out around the house they don't necessarily have the same commitment, the same worries, the same weight of responsibility.  But they have their own problems.

I think 2 things that need to happen with a new baby is:  #1. to make sure that the father bonds with it.  If the baby is being bottle fed then the father can feed it.  If the baby is breast-fed then the father can burp and sooth and rock the baby.  Make sure they spend time together.  A baby changes a couple's life.  What you had before is gone and a new baby, because it is so helpless, dominates the new life together.  If the mother and/or the father didn't realize it before, and most don't, then they have to learn to adjust to the changes.  #2. to talk about problems each is having with the new situation.

Does your friend have her mother nearby to help out sometimes?  Or his mother?  Maybe you can baby-sit for a short time so they can spend some baby-free time together.  As Tex mentioned if they can't talk together sharing their feelings in a non-accusing way then they should get counseling.

I don't think it is SL that is the problem (he could have taken up soccor or golf with the same results) so not your fault.

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I cant imagine anyone with a baby looking around for some way to spend all their free time! Especially if one of them has a job. A job and a baby (or toddler) keep everyone I have known fully occupied -- if they have any free time, they usually want to spend it one way above all: catching up on the sleep they have missed. 

 

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Venus Petrov wrote:

He was just waiting for an excuse to come along to break off the relationship.  Perhaps one day he will grow up.

I don't get why every woman here says he needs to "grow up", as if its an adult duty to marry, get kids and devot themselves 110% to that. From my point of view, this has nothing to do with being "not an adult" in any sort of way. Some people aren't good at voicing their own opinion at the right time or early one. Some aren't good at figuring out what they truely want. That are normal human traits and not a sign of a lack of maturity.

It does not just happens with guys, that can happen to women as well and its not even limited to situations like the one descriped in this thread. Maybe he even thought that having children would be great, but reality showed him its not (at least for him and at this time).

Of course, in this situation it is really nasty to do that and its almost tragic how it happened and that it happend. I'll also say he should fix this mess as soon as possible and sort things out. There is a lot of talking needed between both, him and her.

 

I will never want any children. I'm happy that I already know that and don't have to figure it out by trying (you would be suprised how many people have to try first before they see they don't like it).

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Syo Emerald wrote:


Venus Petrov wrote:

He was just waiting for an excuse to come along to break off the relationship.  Perhaps one day he will grow up.

I don't get why every woman here says he needs to "grow up", as if its an adult duty to marry, get kids and devot themselves 110% to that.

I don't know if I'd describe what he needs to do as "growing up", but he certainly has issues with taking responsibility for the choices he's made in his life up to this point.  Part of being an adult is taking responsibility for your actions.  So this guy has chosen to get involved with this woman, have babies with her and begin to build a family, then, all of a sudden, decides to throw it all away for a bout of extreme selfishness.  Doesn't sound very grown up to me... saying that he needs to "grow up" seems pretty spot on in this instance.

...Dres

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Purely for the sake of clarification: I didn't say he needed to grow up, I tend to find such comments useless. Telling someone they need to grow up doesn't work. :P

However I can see the other commenters points. It's not about being immature and not wanting to 'settle down' (mental imagery of white picket fences, 2.4 children, family photos featuring a gentle paternal squeeze), this man has responsibility to the life (child) he already created. He's already passed a point of no return in terms of commitment and responsibility, regardless of his intention to marry/etc in future.

Once someone has a child they don't get to make that child an option.

Aside: High-five Syo! No spawning for me either.

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Studio09 wrote:

How old is their baby?  If it is pretty new then your friend is probably exhausted, her hormones are all wonky (probably has no sex drive), can't get enough sleep, because she has taken on full responsibility for a tiny baby she worries.  Her emotions are at the surface.  Men don't usually have as much of an issue and don't understand what women are going through.  Even if they start doing more to help out around the house they don't necessarily have the same commitment, the same worries, the same weight of responsibility.  But they have their own problems.

I take offence at this whole paragraph. Speaking as a father I am an equal partner in my childrens raising. I fed them, bathed them, washed the dishes, cooked the food, shared in the housework, and all of the other things that come with a relationship. You need to get with the times and stop thinking this is the 20's where men worked 9-5 nad the wifes did all of the housework and child rearing. 

I think 2 things that need to happen with a new baby is:  #1. to make sure that the father bonds with it.  If the baby is being bottle fed then the father can feed it.  If the baby is breast-fed then the father can burp and sooth and rock the baby.  Make sure they spend time together.  A baby changes a couple's life.  What you had before is gone and a new baby, because it is so helpless, dominates the new life together.  If the mother and/or the father didn't realize it before, and most don't, then they have to learn to adjust to the changes. #2. to talk about problems each is having with the new situation.

Some people just aren't made to have kids. Apparently this guy is one of them. You can try and force him to "bond" with the child but it may not happen.

Does your friend have her mother nearby to help out sometimes?  Or his mother?  Maybe you can baby-sit for a short time so they can spend some baby-free time together.  As Tex mentioned if they can't talk together sharing their feelings in a non-accusing way then they should get counseling.

I don't think it is SL that is the problem (he could have taken up soccor or golf with the same results) so not your fault.

SL is a big factor in this situation. Just as any other online addiction. It is an escape. Soccer or golf are games. You have to go to the golf course (and pay a bundle for the equipment) or find people to play soccer with, run around for an hour or two and then go home.. With SL you don't have to leave your comfy chair to escape the real world.

My advice to each and every person I mentored back when we could mentor. SL is dangerous. Do not let it become your RL. Always make RL your priority. 

But no, Seph, it is not your fault. It is his and hers for not communicating with each other. They need counseling.

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Drake1 Nightfire wrote:


Studio09 wrote:

How old is their baby?  If it is pretty new then your friend is probably exhausted, her hormones are all wonky (probably has no sex drive), can't get enough sleep, because she has taken on full responsibility for a tiny baby she worries.  Her emotions are at the surface.  Men don't usually have as much of an issue and don't understand what women are going through.  Even if they start doing more to help out around the house they don't necessarily have the same commitment, the same worries, the same weight of responsibility.  But they have their own problems.

I take offence at this whole paragraph. Speaking as a father I am an equal partner in my childrens raising. I fed them, bathed them, washed the dishes, cooked the food, shared in the housework, and all of the other things that come with a relationship. ... 

If you are going to take offence I would think it would be with the next to last sentence of the paragraph, not the whole thing. 

You may be the perfect example of a caring, modern father and husband that you claim but your body did not get taken over for nine months, your hormones did not take you on a rollercoaster ride, you did not develope a 24/7 relationship with the unborn baby like the mother did.  She was committed from the get-go.  Near the end of term you probably got more sleep because you didn't have problems finding a position that was comfortable enough. And even if you were present during the birth you where there for support but not really experiencing what she went through.  Your body was not effected.  After the birth, even if she did not breast-feed her hormones were still all skrewed up, she was sore and exhausted and sleep deprived and her emotions were all over the place.  You did not have to go through that personally.  Because of your love for your wife and child you probably chose to give much support before, during and after the birth.  But that is because you chose to.  Most women don't have a choice because they are invested from the beginning.

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