Marketing Second Life: We Can Do Better

[Madelaine McMasters]

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LaskyaClaren wrote:

Your remarks sort of suggest that you are giving up the ship. Can you see no alternatives yourself?

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I've been here for six years, with approximately the same attitude towards SL as on day one. If that's giving up, I'm taking my time.

But this ship isn't mine to give up. I'm not even sure it's a ship. It might be a bridge, an anchor... or an elephant.

I have no access to the LL business dashboard, so any recommendations I make are born of potentially massive ignorance. I do glance at the SL statistics, which seems oblivious to the things we decry and applaud. It's my nature to look at things from different angles and to question pretty near everything. I'm just doing what I do.

While we hum Philip Rosedale's old mantra of "Your World, Your Imagination", he's off touting "emotional bandwidth" at High Fidelity. There's no mention of DIY creativity, but of honing the environment to make our interactions with each other more "real". It sounds to me like Rosedale is on a different ship, if it's a ship.

Do see alternatives for myself? Yes, always. I've just designed a few parts for my new telescope, using out-world design tools that I could have pointed at SL. I had them 3D printed by a friend. Her printer cost her less than I'd pay for three months of a full sim. She's used it to start a small business on Etsy. She's got a good eye. The hype over 3D printing reminds me of the hype over virtual worlds, but she's having the time of her life and it's fun to watch.

Do I see alternative's for LL?

This reminds me of watching Dad do something...

"Dad, I think you're doing that wrong?"

"You do?"

"Mmm hmm."

"Okay, but before you tell me what I'm doing wrong, tell me what you think I'm trying to do."

"I think you're trying to (insert description here)."

"Ah. I see. Well, I'm actually trying to (insert vastly different description here)."

"So you're doing it right?"

"I'm not sure. Let's ask your Mother when I'm done."

And that last comment was a double entendre. Dad often thought he was done before Mom did.

 

Not only do I look at things differently, but I may have a modest ability to say nothing without appearing to. Surely some of you have caught on by now?

[Dillon Levenque]

Your mention earlier of that emotional bandwidth business got me googling just now. Found a recently published article about High Fidelity, written by someone who knows Second Life. I'm not sure the plans Philip has impress me all that much but without a way to test the theory there's no way to know. The article is here if you're interested.

A comment near the end caught my attention, as it matches something I first heard from you, and have repeated elsewhere (it also cements my opinion that the author 'gets' SL). In comparing SL and other virtual worlds to current trends in social internet use—FB et al—he says, "On the other hand, based on my experience in Second Life, virtual worlds permit you to do something that present-day social media can't do: You can have a realistic illusion of a shared experience in real-time."

 

[Aislin Ceawlin]

If it's on the internet, it HAS to be true!

[Pamela Galli]

I think we just need to broaden our concept of creativity. Building things is one form of it, but so is using those things to create a RP environment of some kind. And we need to broaden our concept of RP -- even if all you have is your avatar, there are many ways to be creative with that.

We have long known that SL attracts creative people (and playful people). I would go so far as to say that uncreative people would overwhelmingly not find SL at all attractive, at least not for long. (That does not, however, mean that everyone who doesnt find SL attractive is uncreative.) But we will miss how much creativity there is in SL if we do not recognize the construction of RP environments of all kinds as a creative endeavor. 

[MizzFuzzyMoran]

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Pamela Galli wrote:

I think we just need to broaden our concept of creativity. Building things is one form of it, but so is using those things to create a RP environment of some kind. And we need to broaden our concept of RP -- even if all you have is your avatar, there are many ways to be creative with that.

We have long known that SL attracts creative people (and playful people). I would go so far as to say that uncreative people would overwhelmingly not find SL at all attractive, at least not for long. (That does not, however, mean that everyone who doesnt find SL attractive is uncreative.) But we will miss how much creativity there is in SL if we do not recognize the construction of RP environments of all kinds as a creative endeavor. 

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i agree pam but i think that their shoud be space aswell for peeple who do not wantto pretend

they shoud have a moral contnent wear evrybody has avitars that look like there real life bodies and they shoud  promise to always tell the truth and use displaynames that are there real life names and not fly or use alts to fool peeple

 

[MizzFuzzyMoran]

i herd a good definitoin today

a forum is a place full of people who are unable to do anything who join together to decide nothing can be doen

[MizzFuzzyMoran]

slashdot is discussing a talk at the games developers conference this week about Getting Misogyny, Racism and Homophobia Out of Gaming

somebody commented

"These guys are selling fantasy. I want my fantasy hot and sexy, otherwise I'll go watch porn and not bother with the stupid game play, or obnoxious time-sink quests or the obnoxious early teen goofs who get off on being jerks. My life is full of more than enough reality, I want to buy some misogyny and sexism, not some PC-BS. This is what keeps me sane and provides a catharsis so I don't do this stuff in real life."

do you think he is the target market for the current ll campaing

 

[SugarrBush]

Oooo

Send that one over to Vishnus!

He is in for a reel treet.

[Theresa Tennyson]

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MizzFuzzyMoran wrote:

i herd a good definitoin today

a forum is a place full of people who are unable to do anything who join together to decide nothing can be doen

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It's odd that you're using this particular forum account for this type of bloviating - what happened? Did you get stuck? Did Mr. Spigott not bother to mention that the Frobisher and Gleason Ice Lolly was technically one of your wishes?

[MizzKittenzz]

Maybe we should continue to feed the little troll, he seems hungry... I think we should add more areas that are troll friendly, a place that they can find other trolls to hangout with... Just a suggestion. 

A good troll never breaks character lol

 

[Madelaine McMasters]

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Dillon Levenque wrote:

Your mention earlier of that emotional bandwidth business got me googling just now. Found a recently published article about High Fidelity, written by someone who knows Second Life. I'm not sure the plans Philip has impress me all that much but without a way to test the theory there's no way to know. The article is 

here

 if you're interested.

A comment near the end caught my attention, as it matches something I first heard from you, and have repeated elsewhere (it also cements my opinion that the author 'gets' SL). In comparing SL and other virtual worlds to current trends in social internet use—FB et al—he says, "On the other hand, based on my experience in Second Life, virtual worlds permit you to do something that present-day social media can't do: You can have a realistic illusion of a shared experience in real-time."

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Thanks for that link, Dillon. I'm in agreement with Mr. Wagner.

I've long argued that mobile does not allow for the heavy cognitive load of SL. There are too many other important things to do while up and about, like avoiding lampposts and making eye contact (I'm looking at you, Glass). And as people increasingly multitask, the attraction of what Wagner describes as "snackable" services grows. Even TV became somewhat snackable with the advent of Pause/Play/FF buttons and mobile screens.

My first year and a half with an iPhone has been lovely. I routinely message Mom and the neighbor kid. Both can find me on the map 24/7, and I can find them. When I'm at the shopping mall with Mom, she can wander off to look for a sweater while I inhale deeply at the spice shop. She takes a snapshot of something she's found and two minutes later I'm at her side, feeling the sleeve. I've watched wee hour jam sessions from Berklee, courtesy of Facetime and the neighbor. Being able to do these things is valuable to me. All those things compete for my time and social bandwidth.

I love SL and, at the end of my days, I fully expect to have some difficulty distinguishing SL and RL memories.  But I also expect to witness a shrinking of the real world, as mobile technology and snackable apps connect me to my friends and surroundings in ways that surprise and delight me.

Maybe High Fidelity will be easy and compelling for starters, with a learning curve leading gently to the summit of professional level creation. That seems like a significant challenge. I hope High Fidelity doesn't fall into the Uncanny Valley on the way. Eye contact is serious business.

 

[MizzFuzzyMoran]

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MizzKittenzz wrote:

. I think we should add more areas that are troll friendly, a place that they can find other trolls to hangout with

 

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i think i must be in exactly the right place then

it takes one to no one

[MizzFuzzyMoran]

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Theresa Tennyson wrote:

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MizzFuzzyMoran wrote:

i herd a good definitoin today

a forum is a place full of people who are unable to do anything who join together to decide nothing can be doen

---

It's odd that you're using this particular forum account for this type of bloviating - what happened? Did you get stuck? Did Mr. Spigott not bother to mention that the Frobisher and Gleason Ice Lolly was technically one of your wishes?

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i find it intrestign to veiw ishues from a diffrent mindset

evryboddy else seems so stuck in the same old groove

and as the poor ilitrate fisherman said to the devil i have no sole to sell

[LaskyaClaren]

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Madelaine McMasters wrote:

I've long argued that mobile does not allow for the heavy cognitive load of SL.

 

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I agree somewhat, Maddy, but with the proviso that this applies mostly to how you, and I, and most current users of SL approach and understand the platform. On the other hand, I can imagine (which is not the same as predicting) a different kind of user who, as you say, "snacks" here.

I don't know whether it is worthwhile expending a great deal of money and effort marketing to such "casual" users. At the moment, LL seems to think not, and I suspect that they are probably right. I do think, however, that SL can accommodate both *cough* "power users" and the more casual social media types.

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Madelaine McMasters wrote:

Maybe High Fidelity will be easy and compelling for starters, with a learning curve leading gently to the summit of professional level creation. That seems like a significant challenge. I hope High Fidelity doesn't fall into the Uncanny Valley on the way. Eye contact is serious business.

 

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I think, as you know, that High Fidelity is an entirely different kind of product than SL. I think it shunts imagination out the door: it's about bringing the virtual into RL, rather than making the virtual "more real" (if you get what I mean). I can see its potential value, in the way that it will allow us to "embody" ourselves better through digital interactions, but I also am for that reason suspicious of the way in which it erases the all-important cognitive boundary between the "real" and the "virtual."

It won't be direct competition to SL, I think, if (a very big "if") it gets off the ground, except insofar as it may kill self-consciously "virtual" worlds altogether. I'll be very sorry if that happens.

[LaskyaClaren]

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Dillon Levenque wrote:

Your mention earlier of that emotional bandwidth business got me googling just now. Found a recently published article about High Fidelity, written by someone who knows Second Life. I'm not sure the plans Philip has impress me all that much but without a way to test the theory there's no way to know. The article is

here

if you're interested.

A comment near the end caught my attention, as it matches something I first heard from you, and have repeated elsewhere (it also cements my opinion that the author 'gets' SL). In comparing SL and other virtual worlds to current trends in social internet use—FB et al—he says, "On the other hand, based on my experience in Second Life, virtual worlds permit you to do something that present-day social media can't do:

You can have a realistic illusion of a shared experience in real-time.

"

 

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As per my comments above to Maddy . . . yeah. It does that, and it does it very well because of virtual "embodiment." Which is maybe another reason why it's important (contrary, perhaps, to what I've said above) to keep a fair amount of the marketing focus on the "avatar."

But it also does so much more than that. What SL provides is not merely an illusion of a shared experience in real time: it provides a particular kind of experience that is not possible in real life.

If LL focusses only upon the embodied shared experience thing, then it is going to look inferior to High Fidelity and other platforms like it. It's important that it continue to focus also upon the idea that this is a world of the imagination that can take you places that no other social media platform can.

[LaskyaClaren]

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Madelaine McMasters wrote:

While we hum Philip Rosedale's old mantra of "Your World, Your Imagination", he's off touting "emotional bandwidth" at High Fidelity. There's no mention of DIY creativity, but of honing the environment to make our interactions with each other more "real".

It sounds to me like Rosedale is on a different ship, if it's a ship.

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Sorry, just read this! Yes, very much so.

As you say, we don't have access to LL's numbers, and are not well-positioned to give definitive advice to the company. That said . . . we are clever enough to parse the implications of their current campaign, and see that it represents very inadequately the full scope of what SL can do.

Quite possibly they will make more money (short term?) by marketing to the IMVU set. But if that becomes a key target audience for SL, it will change the nature of this platform utterly, and I'm agin it. even if it makes the company more profitable.

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Madelaine McMasters wrote:

Not only do I look at things differently, but I may have a modest ability to say nothing without appearing to. Surely some of you have caught on by now?

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Stop channeling Snugs.

 

 

[Perrie Juran]

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LaskyaClaren wrote:

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Quite possibly they will make more money (short term?) by marketing to the IMVU set. But if that becomes a key target audience for SL, it will change the nature of this platform utterly, and I'm agin it. even if it makes the company more profitable.

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A big question here could be, "Has it already changed utterly?"

[LaskyaClaren]

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Perrie Juran wrote:

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LaskyaClaren wrote:

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Quite possibly they will make more money (short term?) by marketing to the IMVU set. But if that becomes a key target audience for SL, it will change the nature of this platform utterly, and I'm agin it. even if it makes the company more profitable.

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A big question here could be, "Has it already changed utterly?"

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Is it your perception that it has? I don't get that myself.

But then I don't get out much. ;-)

[Perrie Juran]

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LaskyaClaren wrote:

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Perrie Juran wrote:

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LaskyaClaren wrote:

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Quite possibly they will make more money (short term?) by marketing to the IMVU set. But if that becomes a key target audience for SL, it will change the nature of this platform utterly, and I'm agin it. even if it makes the company more profitable.

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A big question here could be, "Has it already changed utterly?"

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Is it your perception that it has? I don't get that myself.

But then I don't get out much. ;-)

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I don't know.

But I am a bit of a fossil.

I do see one difference.  When I started, I and all the friends I made all shared an excitement for exploring and getting out and finding new "places."  With the new people I meet now a days I simply don't see that as much. 

While we do get the occasional "what is there to do in SL" thread here, In World it seems a bit different.  I can take someone to a really awesome SIM, but it is very rare that I am asked, "Do you know any other cool places?" 

[Dresden Ceriano]

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LaskyaClaren wrote:

It's important that it continue to focus also upon the idea that this is a world of the imagination that can take you places that no other social media platform can.

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I've been following this thread since its inception and have been reticent to comment so far, simply because my knowledge of marketing strategies is pretty much non-existent.  Nevertheless, I've decided to use this sentence as a jumping off point to give my uneducated opinion.

It seems to me that should one wish to market a product, the focus of that marketing should be largely based upon what that product can offer people which no other product is capable of offering them.  In the case of Second Life, that offering is customization.

Within no other platform, game or virtual world can one achieve the level of avatar and environmental customization which SL offers, period.  This is the very thing which enamored me with SL in the first place and keeps me coming back for more.

I may very well be an anomaly in this respect and this aspect alone may not be sufficient to entice people to try SL, let alone ensure their continued use of it.  But, I'm convinced that it is the single thread which runs through everyone's SL experience, no matter why else they may choose to stay.

If someone smart were to figure out how to display this concept in a clear, succinct manner, it could also be the thread which holds together an ad campaign which can then focus more narrowly on other aspects such as socialization and creativity, while still highlighting this ability and the fact that SL has the market on it.

Perhaps the word "Freedom" should be used, since, if you think about it, that's what this ability translates into.  How hard can it be to sell the concept of freedom?

...Dres

[LaskyaClaren]

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Perrie Juran wrote:

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LaskyaClaren wrote:

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Perrie Juran wrote:

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LaskyaClaren wrote:

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Quite possibly they will make more money (short term?) by marketing to the IMVU set. But if that becomes a key target audience for SL, it will change the nature of this platform utterly, and I'm agin it. even if it makes the company more profitable.

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A big question here could be, "Has it already changed utterly?"

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Is it your perception that it has? I don't get that myself.

But then I don't get out much. ;-)

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I don't know.

But I am a bit of a fossil.

I do see one difference.  When I started, I and all the friends I made all shared an excitement for exploring and getting out and finding new "places."  With the new people I meet now a days I simply don't see that as much. 

While we do get the occasional "what is there to do in SL" thread here, In World it seems a bit different.  I can take someone to a really awesome SIM, but it is very rare that I am asked, "Do you know any other cool places?" 

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Interesting! 

You may well be right, but it's difficult to know, because the experience of SL is so subjective.

The group with whom I first fell in in SL, in 2008, was very much here for the social side of things. That's not to say that they didn't explore and build as well, but the real focus was upon chit chat and, to a lesser degree, relationships. Most of the exploring I did was by myself, or with one or two other like-minded souls.

To me, therefore, SL doesn't seem that different now than it did then. In fact, insofar as I am immersed now a bit more in the "art" world in SL than I was, it may even seem less social than it once did.

But, again, that's my subjective perspective. You could very well be correct in your perception.

[LaskyaClaren]

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Dresden Ceriano wrote:

I've been following this thread since its inception and have been reticent to comment so far, simply because my knowledge of marketing strategies is pretty much non-existent.  Nevertheless, I've decided to use this sentence as a jumping off point to give my uneducated opinion.

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Well, none of us experts on marketing -- as I was reminded on Twitter a few minutes ago by someone who opined that one should not "expect users to know how to market the product." He's right, of course, but what we're really doing here is providing some important insight into what brought us to SL, and what has kept us here. It seems to me that both are important bits of info.

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Dresden Ceriano wrote:

It seems to me that should one wish to market a product, the focus of that marketing should be largely based upon what that product can offer people which no other product is capable of offering them.  In the case of Second Life, that offering is customization.

Within no other platform, game or virtual world can one achieve the level of avatar and environmental customization which SL offers, period.  This is the very thing which enamored me with SL in the first place and keeps me coming back for more.

I may very well be an anomaly in this respect and this aspect alone may not be sufficient to entice people to try SL, let alone ensure their continued use of it.  But, I'm convinced that it is the single thread which runs through everyone's SL experience, no matter why else they may choose to stay.

If someone smart were to figure out how to display this concept in a clear, succinct manner, it could also be the thread which holds together an ad campaign which can then focus more narrowly on other aspects such as socialization and creativity, while still highlighting this ability and the fact that SL has the market on it.

Perhaps the word "Freedom" should be used, since, if you think about it, that's what this ability translates into.  How hard can it be to sell the concept of freedom?

...Dres

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Works for me!

I think you're right: the ability to "customize," or, as you put it, the freedom to make this experience what we want, is key. And probably very very difficult to communicate succinctly!

[Dresden Ceriano]

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LaskyaClaren wrote:

In fact, insofar as I am immersed now a bit more in the "art" world in SL than I was, it may even seem 

less

social than it once did.

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Perhaps you just haven't been sent enough invitations to fabulous parties.

...Dres *will send you one next time he throws one*

[LaskyaClaren]

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Dresden Ceriano wrote:

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LaskyaClaren wrote:

In fact, insofar as I am immersed now a bit more in the "art" world in SL than I was, it may even seem 

less

social than it once did.

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Perhaps you just haven't been sent enough invitations to fabulous parties.

...Dres *will send you one next time he throws one*

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That is undoubtedly the problem.

The more fantastic elements of Second Life sort of whizz by on my feed. It's like watching a glorious landscape roll past from behind the window of a bus.

;-)

[Madelaine McMasters]

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LaskyaClaren wrote:

It's like watching a glorious landscape roll past from behind the window of a bus.

;-)

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You're riding the bus wrong / wrong bus. I have fond memories of a group effort to convert the rear window of one to stained glass, using nothing but gently licked Jujubes.

Glory is where you findmake it.