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Dark Lichlore

Huge ass/breast trend is getting ridiculous

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I don't know how this trend has caught on so fast and furiously, but it is starting to spiral out of control.  It seems like nearly every clothing designer in SL has started to cater to this over the people who want thier avatars to look somewhat like a normal human adult.  It has gotten so bad that the non huge-ass crowd is starting to be discriminated against at some places.  A friend of mine, who runs a forced/capture sim, was recently banned from a well known adult club (I wont mention the name, but it is like saying "dark feline";she has been going there on and off for a long time with no problem).  She was told that her avatar was "childlike" by the manager on duty, that the breasts and butt were too small to be an adult; when she asked to speak to the owner, the manager just told her that the owner agreed and booted her.  She has never run into this problem anywhere before, and now I am hearing of other people getting the same treatment because they don't have an ass or boobs that you can level city blocks with.  I don't mind people making thier avatar look however they want as long as they don't break any rules, but forcing a certain type down our throats is unfounded and hateful.

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See, I myself have both looks (well, to be fair, even the "bigger" one can't level blocks) and both of them have their own charm, but I'd say it's somewhat of a "payback"..

I mean, for the past... 6 years that I've been around, everyone that tried to look even remotely bigger was laughed at and looked like *beep* beause of sl's physics... So I guess people just got sick and tired of it...

As for the clothing, honestly, there's nothing to complain about. Most clothing that has appliers, can be worn without them as well, so..

And finally, as for the club... the breasts and butt really shouldn't matter. The only thing that determines whether you are "too childlike" is your height. Since sl has lately been producing the realistically short women and extremely tall men, I guess it's somewhat of a clash....

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My av is 6'5" tall. I was told I was a child and booted from a club as well. Granted, I was the shortest person in there, but I don't hold a grudge. I tip very well for good music and good emote. If they don't want my money, fine with me.

As to the boobs and butt issue. I really don't care. I make clothing with appliers for Lolas. Each outfit comes with a set without appliers as well. I have yet to see clothing with appliers that you can't wear without them.

Perhaps this club wants to cater to a certain look. Who cares. Find a new place.

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Agree with most above the cloths should work fine without appliers which I don't like is that you need to buy the lolas to get the applier creator kit and if someone else gives you one you can't work properly with it missing the breasts (best solution give untextured ones in the kit).

Shouldnt get booted for having small buttocks and breasts unless it really was small by height aswell and wearing cloths that could resemble a child.

In my honest oppinion I like lolas when not too big it just looks better than the standard sl avatar (which I hope will be mesh sometime)

 

 

@ drake

why aren't you a hillgiant haha, recently made my avatar smaller after getting this message from a object

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Dannina wrote:

And finally, as for the club... the breasts and butt really shouldn't matter. The only thing that determines whether you are "too childlike" is your height. 

That is the most misguided line I've read in a long time. People like you are exactly the ones who discriminate against realistic shorter avatars. It's ignorant to say height is the only factor. It is not. Not anywhere close. And people need to lay off that utter BS thinking.

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My avatar is rather shourt... I think she is like 5'7 and well, I have never encountered any issues other than some rather popular, escorting clubs...

And to be fair, I understand their concern, due to TOS...
but yeah, as Drake said, it's one of a million places... if they don't want you and your money there, go somewhere else :P

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I don't think it's necessary to call it BS, when we all know that most clubs do funcion that way... the adult ones anyway...

I mean, I didn't make the rules, I merely stated what I have been told during my visits

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I love the idea that there are people going around measuring (of all things) butts and boobs to see if their clientelle make the cut. Like having giant ones means you're old and distinguished. Awesome.

I don't think 'trends' matter much in Second Life. Some people like some styles, others like other styles - it's generally not possible to say that something is 'popular' specifically, they're just popular around you.

At 5'7, I've been accused of looking like a child a couple of times - usually the language of my response convinces them otherwise. If people don't have moderation abilities on the sim I just poke fun until they go away. If they do then, well, I might waste a minute telling them how stupid they are by categorising so poorly. I don't think I've ever been booted for it, my avatar can never be mistaken for a child by anyone with a brain.

Really, all conversations about whether or not someone is a child in an inappropriate situation should go like this:-

  • Person 1: Hi, you look like a child. Are you a child avatar?
  • Person 2: No / Yes
  • Person 1: Oh, okay then. Bye! *ignore* / Sorry, bye! *eject*

There's no reason for a child avatar to lie about such a basic fact, since child avatars replying 'no' would then be treated like adults, defeating the perception of their roleplay.

I do say this as someone who has banned people who stated they were not a child, but continued to meet my definition. At some point appearances matter - people react differently around things that they percieve to be children (i.e., small, pink, loud, annoying things). When this change affects the tone of the conversation negatively, it's better to act against the cause than compromise the experience for others. In my opinion, the OP's complaint does not sound like this.

Scale is hard (intentionally so!), and just because someone has moderation abilities doesn't mean they're smart. Oversimplifying it to a single issue such as height, boobs, pubic hair is all ridiculous, obviously. But yeah, if they don't want your money then go elsewhere. Adult clubs are ten a penny, and most would appreciate the patronage.

For anyone interested in improving their recognition skill beyond height alone, I recommend the Tanner Scale (Wikipedia - but not entirely safe for work). Shortstacks, feel free to throw that link at anyone who tries to tell you what you are - you'll help educate a venue owner or two.

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I am going to weigh in on this even though I normally do not entertain this type of discussion. As an adult sim owner, the child looking avatars have gotten out of hand. It honestly has nothing to do with the height of the avatar nor the hidious Lola tangos and the stupid Phat asses. It is about the avatar running around in these young looking skins with these oversized heads and round faces that are not proportioned to their avatar. I am all for RL sizes in sl, but you can do that without looking like a child. If you have those key features of a child and you put on slutty clothes or make up, you look like a 13 year old playing dress up with mommy's clothes. It is stupid and has no business on an adult sim.

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Gina Chrome wrote:

I am going to weigh in on this even though I normally do not entertain this type of discussion. As an adult sim owner, the child looking avatars have gotten out of hand. It honestly has nothing to do with the height of the avatar nor the hidious Lola tangos and the stupid Phat asses. It is about the avatar running around in these young looking skins with these oversized heads and round faces that are not proportioned to their avatar. I am all for RL sizes in sl, but you can do that without looking like a child. If you have those key features of a child and you put on slutty clothes or make up, you look like a 13 year old playing dress up with mommy's clothes. It is stupid and has no business on an adult sim.

I think what you are objecting to is the "anime" look. So long as they do not claim to be a child, there is no harm, no  foul. According to LL child avs can be on adult land, just not in proximity of adult poseballs.

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Unfortunately, it says in that wiki..

"Tanner stages do not match with chronological age but rather maturity stages and thus are non-diagnostic for age estimation."

Just because someone looks like an adult, does not mean they are an adult. My niece was passing for 25  when she was 14.

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My entire sim has a sex based theme. I am not sure if it is "anime" or just girls thinking it is cute, but yes, I post the same wording in the sim rules and the covenant. They will be removed from the sim. The little girl or teenager thing has no place on an adult sim.

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So if someone uses say a mesh avatar, one that doesn't have the huge boobs and ass, is normal size and rather nice looking, would you deem that as childlike?  The person also runs an adult SIM and is told how beautiful her avatar is all the time.  I honestly don't see any childlike qualities with her avatar.  She looks like a grown woman.  There is a lot of discrimination over what is "acceptable" and not.  But it's quite alright to let in those that have say the frowny face, or the breasts that would throw your back out in reality and an ass you can almost park a motorcycle on.  They can be shorter than most avatars, but hey your big boobs say you're a grown up, so come on in.  It's almost laughable.  I say to each their own yes.  I may not like the look of some of the other avatars, but hey, if you're happy with it, more power to you.  It's just not for me.  There are plenty of people who are grown in RL but look young, should we prevent them from going into bars?

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Luvi Unplugged wrote:

So if someone uses say a mesh avatar, one that doesn't have the huge boobs and ass, is normal size and rather nice looking, would you deem that as childlike?  The person also runs an adult SIM and is told how beautiful her avatar is all the time.  I honestly don't see any childlike qualities with her avatar.  She looks like a grown woman.  There is a lot of discrimination over what is "acceptable" and not.  But it's quite alright to let in those that have say the frowny face, or the breasts that would throw your back out in reality and an ass you can almost park a motorcycle on.  They can be shorter than most avatars, but hey your big boobs say you're a grown up, so come on in.  It's almost laughable.  I say to each their own yes.  I may not like the look of some of the other avatars, but hey, if you're happy with it, more power to you.  It's just not for me.  There are plenty of people who are grown in RL but look young, should we prevent them from going into bars?

Linden Lab asks us to "err on the side of caution."

"If you are in doubt as to whether an activity may be interpreted as ageplay, we request you err on the side of caution and desist."

Whether we like it or not it is not with out good reason.  Some of it can be as extreme as,

".....some countries' laws may impose penalties for graphics, drawings, or anime that resemble child pornography, even where no children have been involved."

Because a SIM owner could conceivably lose their SIM, be banned from SL, etc, etc, I don't blame them one bit for being this way.  Is it harsh or perhaps even unfair to some people at times because their Ava's don't meet certain standards.  Certainly.  But I still don't blame them for "erring on the side of caution."

Likewise for a Bar Owner in RL.  Because, "they had an I.D," is not an affirmative defense in most places, a Bar Owner is still perfectly within their rights to ask someone to leave if they look too young.  Even if the person had ID showing they were of legal age.  And yes, I've seen it happen.

 

eta:changed a word

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Drake1 Nightfire wrote:

"Tanner stages do not match with chronological age but rather maturity stages and thus are non-diagnostic for age estimation."

Of course, I'd have assumed that was obvious.

The Tanner stages aren't about age estimation, just like how avatars don't have ages or chronology, only apparent ages.

It's not about using it diagnostically, because that would be impossible in Second Life - it's about working with more than just one fundamental aspect of an avatar (e.g. height), as I wrote in my post. I also deliberately stated that a conversation should take place, rather than relying on such systems entirely.

As a starting point, determining maturity (as a precursor to conversation) via the Tanner method is considerably more accurate than relying specifically on height or.... butt size. Neither is 'guaranteed', for obvious reasons.

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Okay then, tell me this... how do you determine how "old" a male avatar is supposed to look?  Facial hair means nothing, as I personally grew up with guys who could grow full beards by age 16.  Height?  A 6 foot teenager is common thing, every child grows at a different rate.  Oh, how about muscle mass?  No... wait... anyone can have spectacular musculature, no matter what the age; all they need to do is devote themselves to a regular training regimen.  You can't even say normally adult male things like pattern baldness or **bleep** size could even matter, because some boys start losing hair at puberty, and as for the other... well, some boys are WAY more gifted than others.  

How about male avatars, in order to be verfied as "adult looking", now have to have grey hair, crow's feet, a beer belly and man boobs?  

Oh, wait... those can happen early too.

Do you see how ridiculous it is to try and apply things like this?  I will go ahead and say that even the big asses and breasts don't mean much these days, due to hormone overuse in meats... teenage girls can have a pair of double-D sweaterbursters before age 18.  And there are some genetic disorders that make the hips and buttocks retain an unnaturally large amount of fat cells instead of them spreading evenly, making a girl with a normal (for her age) chest and waist have a 56 inch or bigger butt size... nothing to do with age at all.  

So please, tell me... what is your absolute surefire way to know how old they make themselves?

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Dark Lichlore wrote:

Okay then, tell me this... how do you determine how "old" a male avatar is supposed to look?  Facial hair means nothing, as I personally grew up with guys who could grow full beards by age 16.  Height?  A 6 foot teenager is common thing, every child grows at a different rate.  Oh, how about muscle mass?  No... wait... anyone can have spectacular musculature, no matter what the age; all they need to do is devote themselves to a regular training regimen.  You can't even say normally adult male things like pattern baldness or **bleep** size could even matter, because some boys start losing hair at puberty, and as for the other... well, some boys are WAY more gifted than others.  

How about male avatars, in order to be verfied as "adult looking", now have to have grey hair, crow's feet, a beer belly and man boobs?  

Oh, wait... those can happen early too.

Do you see how ridiculous it is to try and apply things like this?  I will go ahead and say that even the big asses and breasts don't mean much these days, due to hormone overuse in meats... teenage girls can have a pair of double-D sweaterbursters before age 18.  And there are some genetic disorders that make the hips and buttocks retain an unnaturally large amount of fat cells instead of them spreading evenly, making a girl with a normal (for her age) chest and waist have a 56 inch or bigger butt size... nothing to do with age at all.  

So please, tell me... what is your absolute surefire way to know how old they make themselves?

I'm not saying that there is an easy answer to this.    I've not claimed that one exists nor do I know one.  Really, for everyones benefit I wish there was.  LL does acknowledge in the Wiki that it's a subjective call.  And that is what the SIM owners are making, a subjective call.  And I support them on this because of the potential consequences.  Not only for them but for me also.  While I certainly do not engage in sexual age play I would not want to find my account on hold because someone AR'd me just  because it appeared I was doing wrong in this category.

Yes these rules do have a negative impact on some people.  I know that.  My question would be why don't these people adapt in these circumstances to make life easier for the SIM owners.  Many of them are already catching lots of heat.  We can discuss this issue all day long and it is not going to change LL's policies on this.  So it would seem to me a fair thing that we don't add to these SIM owners burdens.

 

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I don't think the problem is being understood.  These people have avatars that, under any normal circumstances, are adult in every way.  They are not short or small-proportioned, but what a normal adult physique  would be.  If owners and managers are trying to err on the side of caution, then they are making a very broad interpretation of SL's TOS on childlike avatars.  In the case of my friend, I don't even believe that the manager contacted the owner of the place, but just made a snap judgement without taking any time to actually check her out, using her own body shape (and the shape of most of the women there) as a measure.  That's like banning someone for being dressed inappropriately because it's just the manager's opinion of what is appropriate and not the actual rule.  People are splitting hairs where there is no cause, just using thier own poor judgement to make decisions that could, in the long run, affect the establishment's business traffic and drive away loyal customers.  They really need to have a better guage when trying to keep out the people that really are breaking the rules and not the ones who have never broken any of them.

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So an adult sim owner..getting kicked from another adult sim is 'err'ing on the side of caution'?  It would seem far more logical that said person would come under more scrutiny from LL.  Especially since it is likely that they would have had to deal with LL directly on issues such as this themselves.  But, I'm just an adult sim owner, what do I know?  And thank God there is no requirement on intelligence or common sense to achieve such a title, because if there was, we wouldn't have nearly as many places to go!


As for why dont people 'just adapt themselves', do you ask your wife, husband, mother in law, or someone you met in the mall to get plastic surgery so they can look younger/older/more like you think they should?  Or maybe you could ask your German Shephard to become a cute fluffy kitten?  You probably wouldn't do that in RL and expect it to happen, so why do you think its going to in SL?  Just try it sometime, its a great way to pick a fight with someone

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I think I need some clarification on this post....

If a 13yr old is playing dress up in 'mommy's clothes', doesn't it stand to reason that mommy probably wears them to?  Or does she suddenly become a 13yr old when she wears them?  I'm confused.... 

What about the round face?  People do not have round faces as adults?  I'm fairly certain I could find any number of movie stars that fit that description, all of whom I doubt any one would question as to whether or not they are an adult...

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I know, right?  So, according to Perrie,  we should just acquiesce and follow the old "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" addage. So all you ladies out there, before you go to any adult-themed sim, be sure to take the avatar shape that you have so lovingly molded, altered, and made unique, and throw on a huge badonkadonk ass and Hindenburg-esque breasts so you can "adapt".  

Just give in.

Resistance is futile.

The Monster Ass Movement will assimilate you and add you to the collective.

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If does not matter what 'mommy' is doing. That was not even the point and I am sure you have seen the child like round faces with the over sized head. Please do not take my words out of context because you want to try to pick my post apart. It is my opinion and guess what? On my sims, that is what matters.

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Gina Chrome wrote:

If does not matter what 'mommy' is doing. That was not even the point and I am sure you have seen the child like round faces with the over sized head. Please do not take my words out of context because you want to try to pick my post apart. It is my opinion and guess what? On my sims, that is what matters.

Oh... so you just use your opinion and not a certfied scale?  

Thanks for the heads up, you just gave a lot of people a reason to avoid your place.

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Dark Lichlore wrote:

I know, right?  So, according to Perrie,  we should just acquiesce and follow the old "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" addage. So all you ladies out there, before you go to any adult-themed sim, be sure to take the avatar shape that you have so lovingly molded, altered, and made unique, and throw on a huge badonkadonk ass and Hindenburg-esque breasts so you can "adapt".  

Just give in.

Resistance is futile.

The Monster Ass Movement will assimilate you and add you to the collective.

First off, I phrased it as a question, not a statement.  Very purposely so.

And I certainly don't suggest, 'if you can't beat them, join them,' as a catch all solution for every problem.

I've been listening to both sides of this issue for several years now.  So this is anything but  a knee jerk response I've posted.

But let's be clear here.  In Second Life we have no right of access to anyone's SIM.  You only get the privilege.

As long as a land holder is in compliance with the TOS and the CS they can do as they damn well please up to and including under what conditions they will allow someone on their land.

You and I may think their conditions are draconian, overbearing, senseless or what ever term you may choose to apply.  But that is their right and privilege to do. 

For several years I used to get rankled everytime someone would start a "There's A Sexual Age Play Problem" thread as people just crying wolf when there was no wolf.  But over the past year I have seen enough concrete evidence that I have to now acknowledge it's more widespread than I would like to think.

So whether you and I think that the criteria some SIM holder's are applying are out of hand, I still understand their concerns.  To them the possible consequences are very real.

 

eta:clarity

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