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Changes to Our JIRA Implementation

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Community Linden wrote:

We've just blogged about
that will go into effect next week. We think these changes will make for a better, more transparent and more productive experience for all of us, but if you have additional ideas on ways to improve our implementation, feel free to share them with us in this thread.

It's great that  Feature Requests have been re-enabled.

But will the TOS be updated to reflect this change?

It cleary states in Section 7  that we are not to send unsolicited ideas.  Or can we now safely assume that this section of the TOS is now moot?

7.4    Unsolicited Ideas and Materials Prohibited; No Confidential or Special Relationship with Linden Lab.

Linden Lab employs a staff of designers to develop new ideas and Linden Lab solicits and receives product idea submissions from professional inventors with whom it has business relationships.

 

Because of this, in your communications with Linden Lab, please keep in mind that Linden Lab does not accept or consider any unsolicited ideas or materials for products or services, or even improvements to products or services, (collectively, “Unsolicited Ideas and Materials”). Therefore, you must not send to Linden Lab (even within any of your User Content that we may request), in any form and by any means, any Unsolicited Ideas and Materials. Any Unsolicited Ideas and Materials you post on or send to us via the Service are deemed User Content and licensed to us as set forth above.

 

 

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Bravo and thanks for re-opening the JIRA for all to see. It's been frustrating to determine whether an issue had already been reported, any workarounds, duplicates, etc. Thankfully that's all in the past now. Great decision!

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I think there's a difference between "I've got an idea for a great new feature" and "I've got an idea for a great new feature, and here's the code to implement it."

 

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Innula Zenovka wrote:

I think there's a difference between "I've got an idea for a great new feature" and "I've got an idea for a great new feature, and here's the code to implement it."

 

"please keep in mind that Linden Lab does not accept or consider any unsolicited ideas or materials for products or services, or even improvements to products or services,"

It clearly says "ideas OR materials," not "and," plus includes the concept of  "improvements" which a feature request clearly is, an "idea to improve."

The language there is simply put, very plain and clear.

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Perrie Juran wrote:


Community Linden wrote:

We've just blogged about
that will go into effect next week. We think these changes will make for a better, more transparent and more productive experience for all of us, but if you have additional ideas on ways to improve our implementation, feel free to share them with us in this thread.

It's great that  Feature Requests have been re-enabled.

But will the TOS be updated to reflect this change?

It cleary states in
that we are not to send unsolicited ideas.  Or can we now safely assume that this section of the TOS is now moot?

7.4   
Unsolicited
Ideas and Materials Prohibited; No Confidential or Special Relationship with Linden Lab.

Linden Lab employs a staff of designers to develop new ideas and Linden Lab solicits and receives product idea submissions from professional inventors with whom it has business relationships.

 

 
  1. Because of this, in your communications with Linden Lab, please keep in mind that Linden Lab does not accept or consider any
    unsolicited
    ideas or materials for products or services, or even improvements to products or services, (collectively, “Unsolicited Ideas and Materials”). Therefore, you must not send to Linden Lab (even within any of your User Content that we may request), in any form and by any means, any Unsolicited Ideas and Materials. Any Unsolicited Ideas and Materials you post on or send to us via the Service are deemed User Content and licensed to us as set forth above.

Shouldn't we consider both the JIRA and Feature Requests to be solicitations?

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Madelaine McMasters wrote:


Perrie Juran wrote:


Community Linden wrote:

We've just blogged about
that will go into effect next week. We think these changes will make for a better, more transparent and more productive experience for all of us, but if you have additional ideas on ways to improve our implementation, feel free to share them with us in this thread.

It's great that  Feature Requests have been re-enabled.

But will the TOS be updated to reflect this change?

It cleary states in
that we are not to send unsolicited ideas.  Or can we now safely assume that this section of the TOS is now moot?

7.4    Unsolicited Ideas and Materials Prohibited; No Confidential or Special Relationship with Linden Lab.

Linden Lab employs a staff of designers to develop new ideas and Linden Lab solicits and receives product idea submissions from professional inventors with whom it has business relationships.

 

 
  1. Because of this, in your communications with Linden Lab, please keep in mind that Linden Lab does not accept or consider any
    unsolicited
    ideas or materials for products or services, or even improvements to products or services, (collectively, “Unsolicited Ideas and Materials”). Therefore, you must not send to Linden Lab (even within any of your User Content that we may request), in any form and by any means, any Unsolicited Ideas and Materials. Any Unsolicited Ideas and Materials you post on or send to us via the Service are deemed User Content and licensed to us as set forth above.

Shouldn't we consider both the JIRA and Feature Requests to be solicitations?

That could then be another reason for this section of the TOS to now be moot.

ETA, they did not say, "we are now soliciting new ideas."  They've just given us a place to submit them should we have one.

The language in the TOS is still very clear.

 

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I can't believe it!  We suggest, right here in this forum, starting any transparency initiative with opening the JIRA -- and post haste, it happens!  Never seen anything like it.

 

The guy means what he says.

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Thank You.... Referencing JIRA & Maintenance fixed Posts in our  SL Answers posts will actually mean something again. As will reading the details behind new release fixes where the JIRA Short Subject was meaningless.

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It says right at the top of the Jira start screen, 


All submissions to this site are governed by
. By submitting patches and other information using this site, you acknowledge that you have read, understood, and agreed to those terms.

The Second Life Project Contribution Agreement seems pretty much to cover LL against any claims someone might later want to make regarding how LL has exploited their code/brilliant idea.   Same as the wiki.

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Perrie Juran wrote:


Madelaine McMasters wrote:


Perrie Juran wrote:


Community Linden wrote:

We've just blogged about
that will go into effect next week. We think these changes will make for a better, more transparent and more productive experience for all of us, but if you have additional ideas on ways to improve our implementation, feel free to share them with us in this thread.

It's great that  Feature Requests have been re-enabled.

But will the TOS be updated to reflect this change?

It cleary states in
that we are not to send unsolicited ideas.  Or can we now safely assume that this section of the TOS is now moot?

7.4    Unsolicited Ideas and Materials Prohibited; No Confidential or Special Relationship with Linden Lab.

Linden Lab employs a staff of designers to develop new ideas and Linden Lab solicits and receives product idea submissions from professional inventors with whom it has business relationships.

 

 
  1. Because of this, in your communications with Linden Lab, please keep in mind that Linden Lab does not accept or consider any
    unsolicited
    ideas or materials for products or services, or even improvements to products or services, (collectively, “Unsolicited Ideas and Materials”). Therefore, you must not send to Linden Lab (even within any of your User Content that we may request), in any form and by any means, any Unsolicited Ideas and Materials. Any Unsolicited Ideas and Materials you post on or send to us via the Service are deemed User Content and licensed to us as set forth above.

Shouldn't we consider both the JIRA and Feature Requests to be solicitations?

That would then be another reason for this section of the TOS to now be moot.

 

Yeah maybe. It's hard to understand LL's intent from the wording of the TOS. I suspect they had something in mind when crafting that verbiage, but it got lost in translation.

When I was consulting, I crafted a Non Disclosure Agreement that told my clients not to disclose anything to me that was outside the domain of our relationship and that, if they did, it wasn't covered by the NDA. NDA is more powerful than a patent in protecting yourself against competition from clients. All you have to do is get cozy with a big company you think might compete with you, get them to sign an NDA (hopefully their own, and one that doesn't anticipate your ploy) and then spill the beans about the great idea/thing you have that you don't want them to compete against.

Now, without every having to file a patent, you've potentially locked your largest potential competitor out of your sandbox. You got them to promise not to disclose or use your ideas before even revealing them, then revealed them. Unless they can document that they were working on the idea before they signed the NDA, they're in at least some peril.

It could be this kind of thing that LL is trying to avoid. Those "edge cases" that Ebbe mentioned can be pretty bizarre and scary!

ETA: It's been interesting to watch the evolution of NDA documents over the 20 years I've been reading them. There are still some that require the "destruction" of all covered documents upon request, or termination of the agreement. That's often impossible these days. If you ever received client confidential information in an e-mail or via the cloud, or sent it that way, there's almost no way to purge any backups that may have been made by the service provider. My NDA understands this and says only that I promise to safeguard their things as I do my own.

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Community Linden wrote:

We've just blogged about
that will go into effect next week. We think these changes will make for a better, more transparent and more productive experience for all of us, but if you have additional ideas on ways to improve our implementation, feel free to share them with us in this thread.

Wonderful news!  Thank you Community.  *smiles*

 

Now, if LL would have staff actually look at, and act upon, the inworld Abuse Reports that would be wonderful. 

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Innula Zenovka wrote:

It says right at the top of the Jira start screen, 

All submissions to this site are governed by
. By submitting patches and other information using this site, you acknowledge that you have read, understood, and agreed to those terms.

The
 seems pretty much to cover LL against any claims someone might later want to make regarding how LL has exploited their code/brilliant idea.   Same as the wiki.

I know I'm being difficult here, but that page creates problems also.

Note it refers to Desura, not SL specifically,

"As of the date You first submitted a Contribution to Desura Pty Ltd. ("Desura") or Linden Lab, even if such submissions preceded the date below, You and Linden Lab accept and agree to the following terms and conditions for: (i) your past Contributions submitted to Desura; and (ii) your past, present and future Contributions submitted to Linden Lab:"

Also, in the "Important" section it provides a link to a PDF contributors are supposed to submit as well as a link to information adressed to TPV developers to explain why/what.

That is a confusing document that may leave it uncertain to WHOM exactly it is addressed.

I'm pretty sure I know what the INTENT of the TOS is.  But that is not the LETTER of the TOS.

That said, those are pretty much my thoughts on the matter.  I don't really want to get into a long hi jack here on this topic.

I will probably submit feature requests also but I'll also be cautious about this until this gets clarified in the TOS.

 

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Perrie Juran wrote:


Innula Zenovka wrote:

It says right at the top of the Jira start screen, 

All submissions to this site are governed by
. By submitting patches and other information using this site, you acknowledge that you have read, understood, and agreed to those terms.

The
 seems pretty much to cover LL against any claims someone might later want to make regarding how LL has exploited their code/brilliant idea.   Same as the wiki.

I know I'm being difficult here, but that page creates problems also.

Note it refers to Desura, not SL specifically,

"As of the date You first submitted a Contribution to Desura Pty Ltd. ("Desura") or Linden Lab,
even if such submissions preceded the date below,
You and Linden Lab accept and agree to the following terms and conditions for: (i) your past Contributions submitted to Desura; and (ii) your past, present and future Contributions submitted to Linden Lab:"

Also, in the "Important" section it provides a link to a PDF contributors are supposed to submit as well as a link to information adressed to TPV developers to explain why/what.

That is a confusing document that may leave it uncertain to WHOM exactly it is addressed.

I'm pretty sure I know what the INTENT of the TOS is.  But that is not the LETTER of the TOS.

That said, those are pretty much my thoughts on the matter.  I don't really want to get into a long hi jack here on this topic.

I will probably submit feature requests also but I'll also be cautious about this until this gets clarified in the TOS.

 

The highlighted line is problematic. Unless I'm misunderstanding (I do that!) if you had, before the date of the agreement, submitted something that didn't meet the terms of the agreement and then submitted something after the date, you'd be in a pickle. I don't often see retroactive terminology like that.

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Very nice, thanks!

I think one reason they closed Jira was because there were a lot of abusive comments. I hope that won't happen again. If it did perhaps a moderation or tiered thing could be set up.

Great step forward. Thanks!

 

Janet

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To be clear here I am truly glad the JIRA's are again visible.

And it was not my intent to hi-jack this thread (though I should have figured this would happen) but I believe I have clearly shown there is a conflict with the TOS.    It's up to LL to either address this now or ignore it. 

 

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Perrie Juran wrote:

To be clear here I am truly glad the JIRA's are again visible.

And it was not my intent to hi-jack this thread (though I should have figured this would happen) but I believe I have clearly shown there is a conflict with the TOS.    It's up to LL to either address this now or ignore it. 

 

I'm truly glad as well. It's nice to see Ebbe delivering on his promises, and quickly!

Ebbe won't be the first person to walk into a tech driven business that hired lawyers to craft public facing documents and ended up with hairballs. I suspect we'll see improvements in those documents.

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"Before an issue is triaged, everyone can comment to help isolate and describe the issue more clearly. [...] Once an issue is Accepted and imported by Linden Lab’s QA team, the original reporter will still be able to comment, as will Lindens and a small team of community triagers - a group that includes some third party Viewer developers and others selected by Linden Lab for having demonstrated skills in this area."

Are normal users being able to comment when the bug is being triaged. Thats the stage between Awaiting Review and Accepted if i am not wrong. When the bug is being triaged is maybe the stage that more info and feedback needs... Not be able to comment here is a handicap ~~ In any case i dont wanna be ungrateful:

 

97397-DGzSZ8h.png

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