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Darkraven Danick

W-8BEN tax Documentation? help please! >.<

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Pamela Galli wrote:

I suspect some people have not been paying taxes to any country, maybe for quite some time, and hope that they can continue if they don't give that info to LL. Or at least avoid paying back taxes, which they might have a chance of doing if their accounts are anonymous.

Gov'ts do what all Gov'ts do, tax people.

People do what people do, try to get out of paying them.

It's a never ending battle.

I answer with the presumption that they have been paying.

 

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I agree with you, they have no idea.

 

To sum up, after coming back and forth lots of times with the LL this is what I got:

 

IRS requires LL to provide information about certain users. To whom? Those who cashed out over 20.000 USD or did over 200 transactions in LindeX. last year, Why, if I don't meet any of the above mentioned criterions, I was requested to provide an ID with pic, W8BEN form  etc? THEY CAN'T TELL (AKA, they don´t know). 

 

If I am to provide such sensitive data I would like to know at the very least why I am being asked to do so. LL have failed every single time I asked them to answer me that. First with copy/pasted answers and then by simply telling me what I was asking was "beyond their scope and cannot disclose internal procedures".

 

My impression? They rushed so much with this they don't even know what they are asking for or why. They have serious problems not only communicating to its customers, but internal communication faces severe issues as well.

 

I hope they send my righfully earned money for a final time and then I'll be done with SL and moving on to some other place were things are handled in a more professional way.

Thank you all for your help.

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I scanned through the thread and didn't see any mention of the W-9 form. if you aren't a US resident that is the one you need to fill out, NOT W-8BEN, and it should also be linked to in the email & support case requesting your RL information. If it isn't, reply to the support case and tell them that you need that form.

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Zii Minotaur wrote:

I scanned through the thread and didn't see any mention of the W-9 form. if you aren't a US resident that is the one you need to fill out, NOT W-8BEN, and it should also be linked to in the email & support case requesting your RL information. If it isn't, reply to the support case and tell them that you need that form.

I think you have that backwards:

"The Internal Revenue Service (IRS) requires Linden Lab to collect and retain Form W-9 (for U.S. residents) and Form W-8BEN (for non-U.S. residents)"     LINK

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Okay I'd got your point.

 

LL is collecting your personal data where they don't have legal rights to do so (since your haven't exceed the threshold).

 

What's worse, they are holding your legal incomes, forcing you to provide your resume.

 

Yes you are right, that sounds illeagal. Maybe you should suit Linden Lab for doing it.

 

Oh wait, that's what US goverment been doing:  Stealing the whole worlds privacy.  (Ever heard of Project Prism?)

 

So yeah, maybe you should suit US goverment too?    :smileyvery-happy:

 

No matter what you do, you can't avoid your personal data from being stolen. So what's the point anyway?   *derps hard*

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Why not escalate the support ticket to a LL management?  Many people have Peter Grey's email, email it to him.  Maybe email, twitter, IM our new CEO and show him yet another example of LL's culture and history of communication black ops on information they SHOULD BE revealing to any of their customers that are legitimately asking "If my sales and transaction numbers do not meet LL's clearly stated thresholds, why are you holding my $US account hostage until I provide this information with no explanation?"

To me and anyone reasonable, if LL has set thresholds on who should report this information then they should be required to explain TO THEIR CUSTOMERS why they are requiring exposure of private personal information without cause.

So Ebbe... this is the LL Black Op Communications culture at LL that all LL's customers are talking about. 

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20,000 USD is a very high threshold. Especially considering that people could be earning RL money on top of that. I think people would be getting off very easy if they could earn $20,000 and remain anonymous in SL. So I would say that LL got it wrong with the 20K threshold and this needs to be amended. Anyone earning money and cashing out should be required to show proof of ID, regardless of the amount because all income is tax assessable.

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I think you are getting confused.

You will be issued a 1099K IF you have over 20K and 200 Lindex sells.

LL can ask for your ID/Tax information at any time if you are cashing out (in any amount) - they are now registered with FinCEN and are a MSB.

Other websites e.g. Turbosquid ask before your account is set up (I hope LL move to that so you can indicate you want to open a merchant account and get all the ID and tax information sorted up front).

Just fill out the form it takes less than a minute send it in and you are done - your money unfrozen etc.

 

 

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Anyone help please I am filling the forum On first line

, they are asking "name of individual or organization that is the beneficial owner" what should I write there?

my SL account name or Real life name?

I dont want to fill real name ,can i fill anything else? and "Sign here" : Can i write anything in "Sign here" or it required real name

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bullpay wrote:

Anyone help please I am filling the forum On first line

, they are asking "name of individual or organization that is the beneficial owner" what should I write there?

my SL account name or Real life name?

I dont want to fill real name ,can i fill anything else? and "Sign here" : Can i write anything in "Sign here" or it required real name

The form is a legal document and yes you do need to use your real name.  You can't use any phony info.

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I found this thread in a google search, after I saw this form on Patreon and tried to see what it's all about.

Wow... I can't believe Linden is involving ordinary users into bureaucratic junk of this sort! It's Linden's problem how they pay for their taxes and run the transaction service used to convert L$ to US$. Next we're going to have to provide documentation for LL's tap water contract.

Anyway I have no idea about the ID's and other stuff that form asks, and I assume most SL users don't either. Therefore some probably won't be able to complete this at all. Another gracious way for Linden to screw up.

And yes... I read a bit about this issue before posting here and I understand they're obbligated by law to do this, otherwise they have to take a 30% fee from each transaction. But if Linden wants to allow users to extract their money without having to pay those taxes to them, they should at least make this form optional! Those who don't sign it could have the option to pay 30% of the sum to Linden... which obviously sucks, but is better than forcing users into dirty bureaucracy!

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Sorry for the double post everyone. I looked at my SL account settings just now, and it seems this has gotten a lot better.

The only setting in this regard appears to be called VAT, and can be found under Account -> Billing Information. It is (at least now) labeled as optional; If you're from the European Union, you can file a request to be excluded from this tax. If you don't, you're simply charged this extra tax for transactions and that's it.

So if I'm not missing anything, it looks like everything is as good as it can be, and I take back what I said about LL screwing up again. I don't mind Linden paying their transaction taxes by taking a percentage from each of my transactions, and me having the option (not requirement) to complete a legal form if I want more money to get through.

Since I'm from the EU, I might look into opting out of this tax later. Till then, I'm glad this won't be rubbed in my face if I cash out any L$ :)

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Mircea Lobo wrote:

Sorry for the double post everyone. I looked at my SL account settings just now, and it seems this has gotten a lot better.

The only setting in this regard appears to be called VAT, and can be found under Account -> Billing Information. It is (at least now) labeled as optional; If you're from the European Union, you can file a request to be excluded from this tax. If you don't, you're simply charged this extra tax for transactions and that's it.

So if I'm not missing anything, it looks like everything is as good as it can be, and I take back what I said about LL screwing up again. I don't mind Linden paying their transaction taxes by taking a percentage from each of my transactions, and me having the option (not requirement) to complete a legal form if I want more money to get through.

Since I'm from the EU, I might look into opting out of this tax later. Till then, I'm glad this won't be rubbed in my face if I cash out any L$
:)

So then you have the appropriate VAT ID Number to apply for this exemption?

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Not sure actually. I looked again, and apparently it says this exemption only applies to certain EU companies. It's also surprising that the W-8BEN form itself isn't mentioned anywhere on that VAT page... gets me worrying again.

Either way, I might eventually choose to cash out some L$ from my account. Now I have to worry about dealing with angry Americans shoving bureaucracy in my face through an internet connection, and involving me into weird things for a simple and legal transaction. If LL has to pay weird taxes to abide the law, they can keep part of my transaction... if that's the law for US payment services I of course can't complain and will pay extra. Just please don't force me to sign weird paperwork or get me involved with foreign governments and banks or god knows what... this is not cool and I want none of it :(

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Mircea Lobo wrote:

Not sure actually. I looked again, and apparently it says this exemption only applies to certain EU companies. It's also surprising that the W-8BEN form itself isn't mentioned anywhere on that VAT page... gets me worrying again.

Either way, I might eventually choose to cash out some L$ from my account.
Now I have to worry about dealing with angry Americans shoving bureaucracy in my face through an internet connection, and involving me into weird things for a simple and legal transaction
. If LL has to pay weird taxes to abide the law, they can keep part of my transaction... if that's the law for US payment services I of course can't complain and will pay extra. Just please don't force me to sign weird paperwork or get me involved with foreign governments and banks or god knows what... this is not cool and I want none of it
:(

And in the meanwhile as an American "I have to worry about dealing with angry Europeans shoving bureaucracy in my face through an internet connection, and involving me into weird things for a simple and legal transaction" because I have to deal with your VAT tax.

You see, the sword does swing both ways.  ;)

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Right. Europe isn't perfect either... especially my country (Romania) which is one of the most corrupt. My cold blood toward the US comes from believing it's this great and functional society where things actually work... only to later find out there's more control and spying and police brutality than here. Internet users from all over the world getting directly involved into the tax issues of monetization services is a latest example of bizarre American laws.

In related news, I just signed this form for my Patreon account. To my surprise, it's automatically approved and remains editable on my profile. I was afraid to touch it, because I thought it would need approval from US bankers or government, and I might somehow get dragged into weird legal issues including IRL. Hopefully it's as simple on SL in case I'm ever asked about it here... still stuff I feel uncomfortable with so I hope not.

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