LaskyaClaren Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Pamela Galli wrote: How about making a thread for debating this topic? LOL Because it is important enough to merit its own thread? Or because it is boring you? :-D I've said what I wanted to say here. If Henri or someone else wants to start a thread on adult content in SL, they can certainly do so. And who knows, I might even look in. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henri Beauchamp Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 LaskyaClaren wrote: I have no problems whatsoever with a segregated area like the teen grid. In fact, that was a pretty vibrant, if very small, community. Intelligently managed, it could serve as a way of nurturing future adult SLers by introducing them to the platform. I didn't have any problem with such an area either, but LL so far preferred to segregate adults rather than teens... I don't want to see this harmful (for SL and its residents) trend amplified by a new CEO who would suddenly think that there should be more teens on SL and make "more room" for them, to the expense of adult activities. A very large number of residents would like to experience a grown-up environment that also doesn't mean inadvertently happening upon really explicit or ultra-violent stuff. There is a reason why, despite the slow expansion of Adult areas, "Moderate" is still by far and away the most popular rating. And even ignoring the possible presence of teens, I've no doubt that there are adults who prefer "General" even to "Moderate." Why would we not also cater to their preferences? .../... Please understand, however, that there are a great many of us -- perhaps a majority -- who have no problems with, and may even seek out, nudity or mild violence (for instance, a basic combat or zombie sim) but don't want to be unwillingly exposed to Dolcet or "forced sex" toys. You won't stumble inadvertently into such areas, because they are duly flagged with explicit warnings and disclaimers at landing points: if you stumbled upon them (and didn't see those big red warnings), that's either because you were seeking for them, or some of them are now allowing TPs away from the landing point as a result of being located in an Adult sim (something that won't have happened in the old SL, with only PG and Mature sims). Given that you produce adult products, I entirely understand why you don't like to have access to your content restricted by a ratings system. Today, my worries are not at all with the products I sell (and yes, my SL incomes got divided by 8 between 2007 and 2014... but the Adult segregation is not the only reason, by far), but with the fun I can get, as a passionate and very involved resident in SL (how many residents are capable of taking on themselves to fork LL's viewer and maintain their own branch for 7 years and still counting so that they can still enjoy SL instead of giving up on it because of LL's crippled viewer ?... Well, at least one such resident exists in SL). If LL is going to spoil my fun, then I'll be voting with my feet real soon ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Innula Zenovka Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 I'm certainly not asking that LL emphasize SL sex and adult content in its marketing. I am asking, rather, that LL doesn't go out of its way to hide adult content from search and the destination guide, and that it continues to support initiatives to make adult content readily accessible to new customers who are looking for that sort of thing. If we're treated as a large special-interest group that produces content of interest to many, though by no means all, residents (akin to live music, maybe), I'm content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wooja Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 LaskyaClaren wrote: I think we need younger people here, This made me think of this song, the lyrics of which initially reflect your sentiment: Of course, the song then devolves into narcissistic schtick about the greatest love being that which you have for yourself. Wooja...believethatsthebitilike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wooja Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 LaskyaClaren wrote: Pamela Galli wrote: How about making a thread for debating this topic? LOL Because it is important enough to merit its own thread? Or because it is boring you? :-D I've said what I wanted to say here. If Henri or someone else wants to start a thread on adult content in SL, they can certainly do so. And who knows, I might even look in. :-) Actually, the principal rationale for starting another thread elsewhere on this specific subject is that THIS GD subsection is not for discussing "Adult" (in the SL sense) themes, which should be confined to a dedicated GD subsection in the Adult Content subforum, which - last time I checked - is suitably ghettoised by not being available to casual bystanders, journalists, and investors who have not signed in. Wooja...believethatwasvialesidea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaskyaClaren Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Innula Zenovka wrote: I'm certainly not asking that LL emphasize SL sex and adult content in its marketing. I am asking, rather, that LL doesn't go out of its way to hide adult content from search and the destination guide, and that it continues to support initiatives to make adult content readily accessible to new customers who are looking for that sort of thing. If we're treated as a large special-interest group that produces content of interest to many, though by no means all, residents (akin to live music, maybe), I'm content. I agree absolutely. That's precisely why I said that adult "enriches the culture and content here," and that I "don't think that SL should "hide" its adult content;" If SL is ever Disneyfied, you probably won't find me hanging around for long either. After, all, there are GREAT games available on Club Penguin . . . ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaskyaClaren Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Wooja wrote: Actually, the principal rationale for starting another thread elsewhere on this specific subject is that THIS GD subsection is not for discussing "Adult" (in the SL sense) themes, which should be confined to a dedicated GD subsection in the Adult Content subforum, which - last time I checked - is suitably ghettoised by not being available to casual bystanders, journalists, and investors who have not signed in. Wooja...believethatwasvialesidea Perhaps. But this time you can't blame me for starting it. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wooja Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 LaskyaClaren wrote: After, all, there are GREAT games available on Club Penguin . . . ;-) That explains it! I was sure I knew you from somewhere . . . Wooja...readthispaper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pussycat Catnap Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Ebbe Linden wrote: We can talk here! I think you're the first LL CEO to talk in your forums since... um... I dunno... Please keep that up - even when/if we rant... most of us do it because we care. And there are moderators if not, or if our caring gets out of hand. But please keep the lines open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pussycat Catnap Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Pamela Galli wrote: Ebbe Linden wrote: Is being weird a requirement? I think I qualify but maybe it shouldn't be a requirement We all know that you have to be a little off center to love this place -- maybe we are not really quite all the way grown up yet :-) ALways figured folks round here, self included, might be a little TOO grown up. Over the hill, and back down the other side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pussycat Catnap Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Ebbe Linden wrote: And they can't wait to do that...most common question/issue on both sides of the "fence" has been the same thing! I'm getting love from both sides when I'm talking about fixing communication. I don't know when/how it got strange but we'll work hard to make us better at it... Its actually good to hear they want to talk. A friend in RL told me an odd study recently - one that may or may not be real but it went like this: Some botanist took 3 plants and talked lovingly to one every day, scolded the other one like an abusive parent, and ignored the third. Watered them all and such the same. The first plant grew the best, the scolded plant did ok. The ignore plant withered. - I have my doubts about the actual existence of that study. But the parable is a wise one: nothing is worse than neglect. Even abuse is better. If the lindens and the customers/residents have to be 'arguing' and lecturing each other like what was going on in 2009/10 - then even that is more productive than not engaging. At least in the aguments we can figure out what you folks are up to, and you folks can figure out where your customers expectations have landed. When I first came here I really liked two things I saw: One was a regular blog from a linden who was hired to be a 'professional tourist' in SL and I think weekly or monthly (I'd be bold and suggest daily) did a short blog on 'here's what I saw this time in SL'. It was great marketing, AND for existing customers looking for 'something new' it was a great launching point. The other was office hours - they were almost always at times I was not able to log in save for a stint where I was unemployed... BUT that was not so important because I knew there was a linden somewhere fielding questions from people who had concerns like mine. Sometimes those office hours got out of hand because some of the customers have... special social skills... and would dominate meetings over some tiny little issue that wasn't even on topic... But often, and even in those kinds of meetings, there was a gem of something handed between the sides that helped the platform out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pussycat Catnap Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Ebbe Linden wrote: I have heard this quite a few times. I don't know the history yet as to why that was changed. Let me get up to speed from those that know... I think the original change was good intentioned and meant to be a first step towards customizing them - but something went wrong in the transition to display names, leaving us with account names and display names both visible because the account name was needed for finding / communicating / scripting... and as such people on the newer single word account names have been left feeling 'odd'. I've always felt the ideal solution would be making two field account names, type anything into both fields, and if you type 'resident' into the second field it becomes hidden. And then leave accounts currently with 'resident' as is. - If possible to transfer even no-perm items, contact, friend, and group lists between two accounts using administrator priveleges... then offer a paid service for people to do an account transition (name change) - that for a fee assigns a linden to manually transition the account over. Pricing set appropriately to how 'manual' such a task would be, but also high enough that even if automated people didn't over use it. (MMOs tend to price this at $15-30). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindens Ebbe Linden Posted February 20, 2014 Lindens Share Posted February 20, 2014 Wow, seriously? Must be great to be perfect... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindens Ebbe Linden Posted February 20, 2014 Lindens Share Posted February 20, 2014 Not sure what you're trying to accomplish... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindens Ebbe Linden Posted February 20, 2014 Lindens Share Posted February 20, 2014 I'm supportive and I have experience. If Adult is the RL perception of SL then we're not going to be as big as we want to be. I've been in businesses where Adult (and Psychics) were key customers. Keen.com Niteflirt.com Ingenio.com were all brands that I helped build. It started as Keen.com but when Psychics "took over" there was no way to combine that with what you see on Ingenio etc. today. So we chose to become multiple brands...some separation is important if you want to appeal to a broad market. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindens Ebbe Linden Posted February 20, 2014 Lindens Share Posted February 20, 2014 Yep. Just like RL... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trinity Yazimoto Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Ebbe, while you are here, please, i d like you answer my question (page 9 at the top) about the current SL TOS section 2.3 and tell me if we can hope this will be changed soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sassy Romano Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Ebbe Linden wrote: Sure seems like we have some D-K customers who think they know product management though You know that's the issue here. Sometimes there's the feeling that the residents here are treated like little children, incapable of rational thought and that may be the case for some. Do not underestimate the collective experience though. Not only will some residents "think" they know product management, some will be experts at it, along with I.T. Consultants, systems architects, programmers, 3D artists, marketeers, sales execs and yes... CEO's! When LL chooses a path, it presents itself upon a virtual stage where success or failure is hugely visible, looked on by experts in the example skill areas listed above. It is exceptionally frustrating to see a path taken that so clearly is doomed to failure while being continually treated like ignorant children. Listen to the residents...garner feedback, the quality will vary of course but remember that in some cases the people making comment may have more experience and skill than the person making the decision and the advice comes free! Of course, LL is not a collective run by the masses but if the intent is to re-ignite communication then I fully support that but as others have mentioned, there may be some bruises in the short term. After Pink Linden departed, the replacement, Brooke, led an office hours for the Marketplace. It was a case of pitchforks at dawn, very ugly. Merchants had many frustrations and it was an opportunity to vent, probably one of the least effective meetings one could imagine and the effect that it must have had would have been to never want to experience that again. After a couple more, that's exactly what happened. Now I don't know if the directive from up on high was "Office Hours are a waste of time - cease!" or whether it was a choice made elsewhere but cutting off the communications was probably not the best way to go. I agree it's not necessarily constructive to have development staff spending hours browsing forums or chatting at meetings but more regular short interactive is far more likely to allow useful dialog without allowing weeks or months of pent up frustration to be vented, in parallel by 40 attendees! Personally, I would like to see staff in all their business areas making an appearance in the forums rather than office hours. Office hours at set times are unfavourable to different time zones, it's far easier to engage in a forum thread (preferably without adverts and daily mumbai prostitute spam thanks!) I don't get to use all my products that I create on a regular basis but rarely a day goes by that i'm not chatting in my customer group and that's in addition to the day job of course. Communication - what a concept! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindens Ebbe Linden Posted February 20, 2014 Lindens Share Posted February 20, 2014 Agreed. I've only had one interaction with the Marketing team here so far...but "why does it suggest it's a dating site" and "what do we do to specifically target different segments in different ways" were my first questions. I'll learn more as I work more with the team... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vampi Twine Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 haha made my day that one and yes this is my first post ever at this forum so Välkommen ebbe (thats welcome ebbe for all you who dont understand swedish) very refreshing to see that you keep talking to us:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Clarence Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Sassy Romano wrote: You know that's the issue here. Sometimes there's the feeling that the residents here are treated like little children, incapable of rational thought and that may be the case for some. Do not underestimate the collective experience though. Not only will some residents "think" they know product management, some will be experts at it, along with I.T. Consultants, systems architects, programmers, 3D artists, marketeers, sales execs and yes... CEO's and scratch golfers. Communication - what a concept! This^^. PS I took the liberty to add to the qualifications. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sassy Romano Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Oh! One other thing Ebbe, it's a little known fact that if you don't have pixel s*x here within 7 days, your account is automatically deleted and that would be awful for you since you just got here. My SL partner is not online, i'm free for a bit :matte-motes-evil-invert: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindens Ebbe Linden Posted February 20, 2014 Lindens Share Posted February 20, 2014 Making it work for everybody would be a dream and should possibly be a goal. But is it possible? Is too broad a bad business as it could become too little for everybody...hard to tell...sometimes you just can't get what you want. Especially hard as there will always be anti-social elements making it suck for others for no reason... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrie Juran Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Ebbe Linden wrote: I'm supportive and I have experience. If Adult is the RL perception of SL then we're not going to be as big as we want to be. I've been in businesses where Adult (and Psychics) were key customers. Keen.com Niteflirt.com Ingenio.com were all brands that I helped build. It started as Keen.com but when Psychics "took over" there was no way to combine that with what you see on Ingenio etc. today. So we chose to become multiple brands...some separation is important if you want to appeal to a broad market. Thanks! Unfortunately the Media thrives on "Adult" and SL has been targeted at times. A few months ago I started a thread, The Technically Marvelous, looking to highlight places that really excelled in showing what could be done artistically/creatively in SL. Sadly some of the finest builds/SIMs ever done are gone and there was no apparent action by LL to preserve them. It's a little rough when I want to show someone just what CAN be done in SL and the places no longer exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Innula Zenovka Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Thanks for the response. I don't think anyone wants Adult Content to take over, as you put it (I certainly don't), and I'm certainly not talking about what the RL perception of SL should be. All I ask is that, when people do come to SL with an interest in Adult Content, they don't have to jump through too many hoops to find it, and that Adult Content creators and sim owners don't get made to feel LL would rather we weren't around. To my mind, it's all working pretty well at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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