Dillon Levenque Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Wooja wrote: The recent OBR event relating to the incidence of sexual violence against women raised my awareness of this story. Wooja . . . expecthertohavecalledthepolice Apparently your awareness of what OBR events are actually about was not raised. While sexual violence is certainly a part of the issue, OBR protests violence against women, period. Not just sexual, Not even mostly about sexual, actually. A couple of passages from their main site: "ONE BILLION RISING FOR JUSTICE is a global call to women survivors of violence and those who love them to gather safely in community outside places where they are entitled to justice – courthouses, police stations, government offices, school administration buildings, work places, sites of environmental injustice, military courts, embassies, places of worship, homes, or simply public gathering places where women deserve to feel safe but too often do not. It is a call to survivors to break the silence and release their stories.... Our stories have been buried, denied, erased, altered, and minimized by patriarchal systems that allow impunity to reign. Justice begins when we speak, release, and acknowledge the truth in solidarity and community. ONE BILLION RISING FOR JUSTICE is an invitation to break free from confinement, obligation, shame, guilt, grief, pain, humiliation, rage, and bondage." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaskyaClaren Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Dillon Levenque wrote: Wooja wrote: The recent OBR event relating to the incidence of sexual violence against women raised my awareness of this story. Wooja . . . expecthertohavecalledthepolice Apparently your awareness of what OBR events are actually about was not raised. While sexual violence is certainly a part of the issue, OBR protests violence against women, period. Not just sexual, Not even mostly about sexual, actually. A couple of passages from their main site: "ONE BILLION RISING FOR JUSTICE is a global call to women survivors of violence and those who love them to gather safely in community outside places where they are entitled to justice – courthouses, police stations, government offices, school administration buildings, work places, sites of environmental injustice, military courts, embassies, places of worship, homes, or simply public gathering places where women deserve to feel safe but too often do not. It is a call to survivors to break the silence and release their stories.... Our stories have been buried, denied, erased, altered, and minimized by patriarchal systems that allow impunity to reign. Justice begins when we speak, release, and acknowledge the truth in solidarity and community. ONE BILLION RISING FOR JUSTICE is an invitation to break free from confinement, obligation, shame, guilt, grief, pain, humiliation, rage, and bondage." Thank you for this, Dillon. :-) Pep and I have had just this very discussion on my blog. It will surprise you to hear that I don't think he was persuaded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrie Juran Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Dillon Levenque wrote: Wooja wrote: The recent OBR event relating to the incidence of sexual violence against women raised my awareness of this story. Wooja . . . expecthertohavecalledthepolice Apparently your awareness of what OBR events are actually about was not raised. While sexual violence is certainly a part of the issue, OBR protests violence against women, period. Not just sexual, Not even mostly about sexual, actually. A couple of passages from their main site: "ONE BILLION RISING FOR JUSTICE is a global call to women survivors of violence and those who love them to gather safely in community outside places where they are entitled to justice – courthouses, police stations, government offices, school administration buildings, work places, sites of environmental injustice, military courts, embassies, places of worship, homes, or simply public gathering places where women deserve to feel safe but too often do not. It is a call to survivors to break the silence and release their stories.... Our stories have been buried, denied, erased, altered, and minimized by patriarchal systems that allow impunity to reign. Justice begins when we speak, release, and acknowledge the truth in solidarity and community. ONE BILLION RISING FOR JUSTICE is an invitation to break free from confinement, obligation, shame, guilt, grief, pain, humiliation, rage, and bondage." Very good point to clarify OBR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillon Levenque Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 LaskyaClaren wrote: Thank you for this, Dillon. :-) Pep and I have had just this very discussion on my blog. It will surprise you to hear that I don't think he was persuaded. It will? ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaskyaClaren Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Dillon Levenque wrote: LaskyaClaren wrote: Thank you for this, Dillon. :-) Pep and I have had just this very discussion on my blog. It will surprise you to hear that I don't think he was persuaded. It will? ;-) Sorry. Forgot the <sarcasm> tags. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucretia Brandenburg Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Wooja wrote: LaskyaClaren wrote: I have no better an idea than you what happened. But if the university's Office for Sexual Harassment Prevention DID investigate, and found that a professor engaged in " unwelcome and inappropriate sexual advances," then they at least should have acted. The "social media communications and text messages" the student allegedly sent the Professor in the days after the incident, which the university might have been provided access to and which might have indicated that advances might not only be welcomed, but encouraged, might have had something to do with the university (not) acting as they did. Wooja . . . putmoneyonwhoisgoingtowinthisone Regardless of whether the student was making advances toward the professor or not, Northwestern University's policy is clear about no romantic or sexual relationships between faculty and undergraduates. It's a convoluted policy but the relevant passage is found on page 3 in big bold letters http://policies.northwestern.edu/docs/Consensual_Relations_011314.pdf "When undergraduate students are involved, the difference in institutional power and inherent risk of coercion are so great that no faculty member or coaching staff member shall enter into a romantic, dating, or sexual relationship with a Northwestern undergraduate student, regardless of whether there is a supervisory or evaluative relationship between them." Whether she was throwing herself at him, had a crush on him or expressed her undying love and romantic/sexual desires (if she did) is immaterial. Seeing that such feelings do not lead to romantic or sexual relations is the responsibility of the faculty member, not the student. It is the school's policy, and it seems they may not be very vigilent in enforcing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaskyaClaren Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Lucretia Brandenburg wrote: Wooja wrote: LaskyaClaren wrote: I have no better an idea than you what happened. But if the university's Office for Sexual Harassment Prevention DID investigate, and found that a professor engaged in " unwelcome and inappropriate sexual advances," then they at least should have acted. The "social media communications and text messages" the student allegedly sent the Professor in the days after the incident, which the university might have been provided access to and which might have indicated that advances might not only be welcomed, but encouraged, might have had something to do with the university (not) acting as they did. Wooja . . . putmoneyonwhoisgoingtowinthisone Regardless of whether the student was making advances toward the professor or not, Northwestern University's policy is clear about no romantic or sexual relationships between faculty and undergraduates. It's a convoluted policy but the relevant passage is found on page 3 in big bold letters http://policies.northwestern.edu/docs/Consensual_Relations_011314.pdf "When undergraduate students are involved, the difference in institutional power and inherent risk of coercion are so great that no faculty member or coaching staff member shall enter into a romantic, dating, or sexual relationship with a Northwestern undergraduate student, regardless of whether there is a supervisory or evaluative relationship between them." Whether she was throwing herself at him, had a crush on him or expressed her undying love and romantic/sexual desires (if she did) is immaterial. Seeing that such feelings do not lead to romantic or sexual relations is the responsibility of the faculty member, not the student. It is the school's policy, and it seems they may not be very vigilent in enforcing it. That particular policy was only added this past January. Nonetheless, you are absolutely right: the principles that it articulates apply, or should apply, to any student/instructor relationship anywhere, whether it's been codified or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wooja Posted February 18, 2014 Author Share Posted February 18, 2014 LaskyaClaren wrote: That particular policy was only added this past January. So there weren't even any official guidelines in place at the time. The incident actually took place two years ago. And also the student first went to the police over a year later. I said in my OP "I suggest that you read the details very carefully". Wooja...believethatireadeverythingicouldfindonthenetbeforeistartedthisthread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wooja Posted February 18, 2014 Author Share Posted February 18, 2014 LaskyaClaren wrote: Thank you for this, Dillon. :-) Pep and I have had just this very discussion on my blog. It will surprise you to hear that I don't think he was persuaded. Perhaps he was as confused by the incoherent message of what OBR was about as these guys: Wooja...believeifoundthisonlaskyastwitteraccount Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillon Levenque Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Wooja wrote: LaskyaClaren wrote: Thank you for this, Dillon. :-) Pep and I have had just this very discussion on my blog. It will surprise you to hear that I don't think he was persuaded. Perhaps he was as confused by the incoherent message of what OBR was about as these guys: Wooja...believeifoundthisonlaskyastwitteraccount Thank you for sharing the picture; it's gratifying to see some males in there supporting the cause, as a great many do. I'm not sure what it has to do with OBR, but I'm fairly confident the people behind OBR would welcome and encourage that effort and support it completely. ETA a comma I thought needed to be there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaedenDelanaire Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 My dear Rudi, is that you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wooja Posted February 19, 2014 Author Share Posted February 19, 2014 Dillon Levenque wrote: I'm not sure what it has to do with OBR Thereby demonstrating that you are as confused about OBR's point as anyone, putting your previous criticisms into context. Wooja...believeitsasouthafricachapterofobr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillon Levenque Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Wooja wrote: Dillon Levenque wrote: I'm not sure what it has to do with OBR Thereby demonstrating that you are as confused about OBR's point as anyone, putting your previous criticisms into context. Wooja...believeitsasouthafricachapterofobr Oh, I see. You mistook my attempt at pointing out your error (without sounding overly critical) for confusion. Let me rephrase by replacing "...not sure what it has to do with OBR" with what I was actually thinking. "I'm not sure why you thought that particular image was connected in some way to OBR since there is no mention of same in the words. Also the message and apparent intent, while laudable, address only a part of the greater message of OBR...." edited for rearranging Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrie Juran Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Dillon Levenque wrote: Wooja wrote: Dillon Levenque wrote: I'm not sure what it has to do with OBR Thereby demonstrating that you are as confused about OBR's point as anyone, putting your previous criticisms into context. Wooja...believeitsasouthafricachapterofobr Oh, I see. You mistook my attempt at pointing out your error (without sounding overly critical) for confusion. Let me rephrase by replacing "...not sure what it has to do with OBR" with what I was actually thinking. "I'm not sure why you thought that particular image was connected in some way to OBR since there is no mention of same in the words. Also the message and apparent intent, while laudable, address only a part of the greater message of OBR...." edited for rearranging I searched for the image Wooja posted with tinyeye and google and got no results. I did however find this. I am wondering now if the image Wooja posted came from this seperate event. Perhaps he can provide us with a link to his source. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wooja Posted February 19, 2014 Author Share Posted February 19, 2014 Perrie Juran wrote: I searched for the image Wooja posted with tinyeye and google and got no results. I did however find this. I am wondering now if the image Wooja posted came from this seperate event. Perhaps he can provide us with a link to his source. You can find the original here: https://twitter.com/OBRSA/status/434783246661193728 I found it on Laskya's Twitter account: https://twitter.com/LaskyaClaren as I pointed out on my original post of the image. Wooja...expectdillontogetitrightnotreally Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaskyaClaren Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Wooja wrote: Perrie Juran wrote: I searched for the image Wooja posted with tinyeye and google and got no results. I did however find this. I am wondering now if the image Wooja posted came from this seperate event. Perhaps he can provide us with a link to his source. You can find the original here: https://twitter.com/OBRSA/status/434783246661193728 I found it on Laskya's Twitter account: https://twitter.com/LaskyaClaren as I pointed out on my original post of the image. Wooja...expectdillontogetitrightnotreally I was about to confirm this myself. The image is a retweet from One Billion Rising South Africa, and was in turn borrowed from another South African activist. I'm rather failing to see the point of this. A picture of a single mosque group in South Africa holding a banner against sexual violence that may (or indeed may not) have been part of the global OBR event is meant to somehow show that the entire global event was actually only about rape and sexual violence? This is supposed to reveal the "secret hidden agenda" of the entire world-wide event? Really? There are so many logical fallacies at work here that I can't begin to list them. One Billion Rising is about sexual violence, but it is not only about sexual violence: it's also about domestic abuse, abuse in the workplace, sweatshop labour, the modern slave trade, the exploitation of immigrant women, codified and systemic religious-based discrimination and violence offered against women, etc., etc., etc. And to repeat what I told a good "friend" of Wooja when he tried to make this same point on my blog posting about OBR in SL, any one visiting the in-world event, or even scanning the pics I posted on my blog, will recognize that the focus of the event was very broad indeed, and not limited to sexual violence. In fact, I don't think I saw a single exhibit or installation there that was solely about sexual violence, although Betty Tureaud's piece certainly alluded to it. (Edited for clarity and precision) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Clarence Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Dillon chimed in twice trying to establish a separation from what OBR is and what Dillon thinks and wants us to think it is. So with both posts she tried to discredit Wooja. Dillon failed. (Two typical posts where the response was to the poster and not the post) Tsk, tsk Dillon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wooja Posted February 19, 2014 Author Share Posted February 19, 2014 But isn't ALL "gender violence" "sexual violence" - according to OBR, that is, because it is perpetrated against women and girls? by men Wooja...clarifythatplease Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaskyaClaren Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Wooja wrote: But isn't ALL "gender violence" "sexual violence" - according to OBR, that is? Wooja...clarifythatplease Um, no. "Sex," or "sexuality," and "gender" are two very different things. In normal usage in this context, "gender" refers to socially-constructed roles "assigned" to particular classes of people, often on the basis of biological sex, but otherwise arbitrarily determined. For instance, the stereotype that women are more emotional than men is "gendered." The notion in, some parts of the world, that women must be covered up is gendered, not "sexual." Sex can refer either to biological assignment, or, more obviously, to actions or objects that our culture has determined are somehow related to sexual intercourse and associated activities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrie Juran Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Wooja wrote: Perrie Juran wrote: I searched for the image Wooja posted with tinyeye and google and got no results. I did however find this. I am wondering now if the image Wooja posted came from this seperate event. Perhaps he can provide us with a link to his source. You can find the original here: https://twitter.com/OBRSA/status/434783246661193728 I found it on Laskya's Twitter account: https://twitter.com/LaskyaClaren as I pointed out on my original post of the image. Wooja...expectdillontogetitrightnotreally Next time I will pay closer attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaskyaClaren Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Perrie Juran wrote: Next time I will pay closer attention. The problem Perrie is of course that you aren't following me on Twitter. As world-recognized authority on EVERYTHING TO DO WITH FEMINISM AND WiMMEN (you can just ask Wooja, he'll tell you), I am the central clearing house for all that kinda stuff, not to mention an endless lumberroom full of materials for trolling posts and provocative comments. Get with the programme, please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madelaine McMasters Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Perrie Juran wrote: Next time I will pay closer attention. Why the hell would you do that? You'll see stuff. Didn't anybody ever tell you ignorance is bliss? Well, I just did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrie Juran Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Bliss is a woman's breast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madelaine McMasters Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Perrie Juran wrote: Bliss is a woman's breast. Well then, I'm a little tubeless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillon Levenque Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 LaskyaClaren wrote: Perrie Juran wrote: Next time I will pay closer attention. The problem Perrie is of course that you aren't following me on Twitter. As world-recognized authority on EVERYTHING TO DO WITH FEMINISM AND WiMMEN (you can just ask Wooja, he'll tell you), I am the central clearing house for all that kinda stuff, not to mention an endless lumberroom full of materials for trolling posts and provocative comments. Get with the programme, please. See, that's why I wasn't surprised when I saw in the original fluff line or whatever he calls it that the image was found on your Twitter. I mean, why would it not be there? You're the single authority on all things feminist, right? Thanks for the further clarification, too. And I see what you meant about not being persuaded back there ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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