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Custom Sliders for Fitted Mesh a Solution


Cathy Foil
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First off I have to give credit where credit is due.  Medhue Simoni posted a brilliant idea that can solve many of Fitted Meshes problem.  His idea was that Fitted Mesh clothing should have their own sliders in the Editing Appearance menu for fine tune adjustment of your Fitted Mesh clothing.

I read this and realized just how brilliant of a solution this was and remembered a post long ago by Heb Dexler who posted early in the open Mesh Beta testing about some custom sliders he had made for a pair of mesh boots he made.

I found the post opened up my  avatar_lad.xml file an proceeded to create new custom sliders that only affected the collision bones to see if indeed Medhue's idea would work.  IT DOES!!! :smileyvery-happy:

I made several custom sliders.  I made an overall size slider that made my Fitted Mesh get bigger or smaller.  I made CHEST bone sliders that separately scaled in X, Y & Z as well as one that scaled all three together.  I made sliders for the R_UPPER_LEG that scaled all three axis and sliders for offsetting in X and Y.

Below are photos I took using Singularly viewer on the Beta Test grid.  It doesn't really matter which viewer since they all basically use the same avatar_lad.xml file.

Adding custom sliders for all 26 collision bones with the ability to scale XYZ separately and together as well a being able to offset in XYZ would not break any existing content and would just be a few days work.  It would work in all viewers new and old.

The dress in the photos is by Tyr Rozenblum.  She was helping me test my Maya plug-in I made.  I rigged and adjusted the weights fairly roughly.  The dress was only rigged to the original collision bones since it was before Fitted Mesh was announced and the new bones added.

Mesh Before.png

Above is the mesh dress before using any of the custom Collision Bone sliders I made.  Obviously I am not wearing an alpha.

Chest Before.png

Above is the chest area in wireframe before adjusting the custom slider.

Chest After.png

Above after adjusting the Y axis scale.

After Chest before Overall resizing.png

Above after adjusting the chest but before increasing scale of all the collision bones at once.

After Overall Resize.png

Above after increasing the overall size of the dress.

Leg Muscles Before.png

Above before changing the leg muscular setting.

Leg Muscles After.png

Above after making legs less muscular.  Notice the bottom of dress being deformed into the legs themselves.  This is a common problem with short dresses, skirts and shorts.

Right Upper Leg Adjusted.png

Above is after I adjust the scale and Y offset of the R_UPPER_LEG collision bone.  Notice how the other side of the skirt is not affected.  That is because I did not adjust the L_UPPER_LEG collision bone.

 

There you go proof that custom sliders for all the collision bones can and does work to solve many of the problems with Fitted Mesh.

 

 

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ObviousAltIsObvious wrote:


You know I had completely forgotten about FITMESH-19.  I think I even voted for it.  So more credit where credit is due.  RedPoly Inventor first suggested custom sliders for the collision bones and Medhue helped me see their true potential and need.

In any event word has got to spread and support rallied for these sliders.  Otherwise I believe Fitted Mesh will be a big disappointment.

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Would you have to use these sliders to custom fit each fitted mesh article of clothing or can they be set once and it works for all fitted mesh clothing?

Why wait years on the Lindens? If this is as easy as altering a file in the viewer, why not provide the mod for that file and directions on how to use them so that people can replace the ones in their viewers, either as a download or a cut and paste in notecard or in the forum?  At least post the link to the post you looked at, so that those of us who wish to can set them up ourselves.

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Sassy Romano wrote:

What this won't address is layering but could do if there was a way to save the offset of the bones from standard.  In other words, just as we save an alpha, save a "bone slider" layer to be worn with the mesh.

Won't happen, too damn useful.

If I understand the Jira to which Obvious linked, RedPoly is suggesting an asset, separate from our avatar shape, which can be adjusted then saved for each piece of mesh clothing or, actually, each outfit.  I can only imagine that this asset would be wearable just as our shape or physics layer are.  If this truly works as Cathy has illustrated, it could very well go a long way toward being a viable solution to the fit issues so many user have with mesh clothing.

I sure would love to see TPVs incorporate it, if LL won't, even if it needs to remain a part of our avatar shape.  The only thing is, it absolutely has to be able to be seen by people using viewers without those added lines or TPVs will not be permitted to do so, because it would alter the shared experience.  I do hope this is not the case.

...Dres

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Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

Would you have to use these sliders to custom fit each fitted mesh article of clothing or can they be set once and it works for all fitted mesh clothing?

Why wait years on the Lindens? If this is as easy as altering a file in the viewer, why not provide the mod for that file and directions on how to use them so that people can replace the ones in their viewers, either as a download or a cut and paste in notecard or in the forum?  At least post the link to the post you looked at, so that those of us who wish to can set them up ourselves.

All the original avatar body shape changing sliders still affect the Fitted Mesh as before so if you are happy with how your Fitted Mesh looked you won't need to touch the custom sliders.  It would not be a set it once and forget it.  Once you put on another mesh you may have to set the custom sliders back to their original setting or adjust them differently for the current mesh you have changed to.

It would be a good idea to save a backup of your shape before you change the custom sliders because once you change them and save them the next Fitted Mesh clothing you wear may need completely different settings so you want to be able to go back to the default settings for the custom sliders.

I won't want to provide an altered file or notecard with the changes I made available to all because it would break the shared experience rule. THis is something that has to be officially adopted by LL and made standard across all viewers.

Amethyst got the correct link to the post I had referred to.

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Innula Zenovka wrote:

It certainly looks amazing.   What does it look like, though, to others?   Have you been able to check that the resizing is visible to everyone?

Others don't see the changes unless they have the same changes to their XML file.

(CORRECTION 2/18/2014) I did a test yesterday and it turns out I was wrong.  Even if two residents are using the altered XML file they don't see the changes the other did with the custom sliders. :(

The only way custom Collision Bone sliders will work for everyone is if LL adopts them.  I sure hope they surprises a lot of people and do so.

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Sassy Romano wrote:

What this won't address is layering but could do if there was a way to save the offset of the bones from standard.  In other words, just as we save an alpha, save a "bone slider" layer to be worn with the mesh.

Won't happen, too damn useful.

Unless there is a way to save the new XYZ coordinates of the deformed mesh all mesh worn if they have weighted to the same bones will be deformed in the same way.

It would be great if we could tweak the shape of the mesh with the custom sliders press a button to set that as the pertinent shape and then reset the custom sliders to the default position.

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If that's what is being suggested then fine but I suggested something along those lines when it was the "deformer" before LL changed direction to collision bones and it was thrown out as out of scope.  I'm yet to be convinced that LL has any appetite for this whatsoever beyond shutting us up with an offering of something instead of nothing.

We shall see!

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Sassy Romano wrote:

If that's what is being suggested then fine but I suggested something along those lines when it was the "deformer" before LL changed direction to collision bones and it was thrown out as out of scope.  I'm yet to be convinced that LL has any appetite for this whatsoever beyond shutting us up with an offering of something instead of nothing.

We shall see!

Perhaps it was out of scope at the time, simply because they hadn't added the extra bones yet, which the success of such a set up seems to rely upon.  But, I do agree with you about LL's appetite.  Now that I know these lines of code are needed to view these deformations correctly (which puts the onus on LL for any sort of development, rather than the TPV devs), I have little hope that it will be done in either a timely or competent manner.

...Dres

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Of course, it wasn't my idea. Really, IMHO, it is just the conclusion that any 3D artist would come to after thinking about it for awhile. This probably explains why LL can't think up these things, as they are coders with no real 3d creation skills. It seems to me that they are trying to do as little as possible. If they thought about this at all, they would have come to the same conclusion, saved the company money, and made every1 happy.

Sadly, I agree that this will likely never happen, not because it can't, not because it's hard, but because LL doesn't give a crap. Just look, the person that actually came up with the cbone solution, also gave this solution, and LL did nothing, even tho he made a jira and everything. This is why I don't do jiras anymore, or at least, not LL jiras.

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  • 2 weeks later...

This is what we'd need I am with you and Medhue on this proposal. I wish that LL would be less deaf than it is to listen to us.

It would make life for creators easier. We couldn't spend hours of extra job to fight with collision bones and their craziness.

To rig a dress like that using the old mbones in maya you'd need 20 minutes more and less, with new collision bones you could spend several hours fighting with collision bones.

Lindens should listen to makers a bit more.

We should get a couple of lindens locked in a room and force them to righ a dress like this both ways. In Middle Age this was a solution adopted with some cardinals who weren't able to take a decision about who should have been next pope: they were locked in a room and were made free again oonly when the decison was taken.

This system reminds me the way you'd adjust clothes in daz studio which is an amazing thing if you have ever tried their characters and relative wardrobe. I wish SL would work that same way

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 1 month later...
  • 9 months later...

I doubt the SL devs even care anymore. As Cathy said in one of her videos, the Mesh Deformer was in beta for 2 years, and Fitted Mesh for a couple of months, and LL decided to rush out the Fitted Mesh Project, which has been disastrous to SL ever since.

The new starter mesh avatars are proof of this.  They are probably the #1 reason at turning away new players.  Just imagine being a newbie.  You see some clothing, so you put it on, and then your avatar looks like the first pic in the original post.  What a disaster!

There isn't a uniform standard for avatar clothing and attachments, which makes SL look like a patchwork of a mess.

 

  • There's the old default avatar and clothing.
  • The new default mesh avatars and clothing.
  • The UV skins & clothing.
  • The standard-sizes mesh clothing.
  • The Fitted Mesh avatars and clothing.

If they can't even get this straightened out for SL, i don't have high hopes for SL 2.0, which is why i'm hoping another virtual world comes out and wakes LL up.  I've only been in SL/OS virtual worlds for around 2 years total, but even i recognize how much of a disaster this has been to SL.

Since LL will never standardize and clean up this mess, it's up to the creators and vendors to do it.  If only they could collectively settle on a standard, and discontinue the old freebies and old clothing (which have been around since 2007), SL would be a much better place for new players and content creators.

The solution in the original post would be so wonderful for SL, but then it would also add even more confusion to the Frankenstein-patchwork that is SL.

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I agree with you EmiElissi.

Fitted Mesh is a flawed system in the first place.  It was implemented so fast and Oz given so little time and resources which just compounded those flaws.

Adding more sliders would just compound the confusing mesh we have today.  The custom sliders were an attempt to make a broken poorly implimented system work better.

The sad thing is had LL gone with the Mesh Deformer instead of compounding the confusion and complexity it would have simplified so many things.  No more need for 5 standard sizes.  Way way less works for content creators than Fitted Mesh.  The end user average consumer resident would not have to think about anything just wear the mesh clothing.

Yes the Mesh Deformer has some flaws but those could have been fixed in the Mesh Deformer 2.0 which would probably not cost LL anything since the original Mesh Deformer was paid for by a small group of residents who hired Qarl to write it.  I am sure 2.0 could have been paid for in the same way.

Mesh Deformer 2.0 could have had a smoothing feature.  It could have had the option to deform from the faces of the mesh instead of the vertex position which gives a better smoother deformation of the mesh clothes.  It would have had a relax UV by World Space and Pinned UV border to remove texture distortions.  An option to deform from a secondary worn mesh would mean that custom mesh avatars could wear any mesh clothing and it fit all without the customer having to think or do anything more than just wearing the clothes or avatar.

This is what we could have had with the Mesh Deformer not the mess we have now.
I am doing my best to make a bad situration better with my MayaStar.

Cathy

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