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Marina Ramer

Attention Merchants, IMPORTANT!

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Okey here is the new MP bug, in case noone realized yet, the "failed dalivery" status, we dont get paid, customer gets the money back and hey they get the products.

I´d detected two cases of customers that did great reviews on my products, saying how happy they were with them and oh surprise I never got paid. So started inventigating and contacting some more customers and asking and I found out that this is happening after MP changed on april 2013 form boxes to the present.

I of course submitted a ticket and Dakota Linden as laways washes her hands and says that she cannot do nothing that I should go to this customers and ask them to pay me...

Now how ilogical and ridiculous is this?! I wont go customer by customer begging for money, many wont even pay and others cannot even check transactions of more than 30 days, so this is crazy as I see it.

I started also a case here please feel free to join me by voting for it https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-5023

Linden should get this money form the customers and send to the merchant involved as they used to do before with the old well known bug "being delivered" and send to us, this is terrible I have over 14 transactions on this status and I didnt even checked other satus as "aborted" and so on...what do you all think?

 

 

 

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It doesn't feel that important to me unless you're losing out on 20,000L a sale. I can't bring myself to freak over a 200L sale that got dropped. It happens, better for the customer to be happy and coming back than to blow things out of proportion

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i tend to agree with this 

i had the same thing over half a eyar ago !!!! i files a ticket and no action was done by LL. 

beside sorry i did not get any , and for sure they did not send my money back 

costumers paid , got the product and i bever got the money to my sl,com ,

it Does show in mp transactions !! and i sent them a copy of it 

not sure how they will handle this one , but me and my friends that also had same thing happening at same days 

never got it sort out ,

sad

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MIstahMoose wrote:

It doesn't feel that important to me unless you're losing out on 20,000L a sale. I can't bring myself to freak over a 200L sale that got dropped. It happens, better for the customer to be happy and coming back than to blow things out of proportion

Amen

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Yes I udnerstand for mechants with not so many transactions of money movement may be not important at all for for us really is a big deal, as I guess for many many more even bigger than us, for sure :)

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Nobody can view or vote on new JIRA's anymore.  That's how LL decided it should be.

However, that does not excuse the dreadful archictecture which underlies Marketplace such that this could happen in the first place.

Transactions just quite simply are NOT atomic.  Bad implementation, it's all held together with string, glue and sticky tape.

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This is horrible! Thanks for bringing this issue up. This should definately not be ignored or swept under the rug. I don't care if it is 20L or 20,000L, if we earned it, we need to have it. I cannot view the JIRA so is there a bug with the JIRA now or is this being hidden for some reason.

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Laura Liberty wrote:

This is horrible! Thanks for bringing this issue up. This should definately not be ignored or swept under the rug. I don't care if it is 20L or 20,000L, if we earned it, we need to have it. I cannot view the JIRA so is there a bug with the JIRA now or is this being hidden for some reason.

LL stopped the public viewing of certain types of JIRA reports a while back.

...Dres

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Thanks for your relevant posting there MistahMoose. Considering you have nothing in the mp for sale, it is so nice that you would grace us with your knowledge and opinions. The OP said since April 2013 so common sense would tell you that if people do not check their transactions for these problems, a lot of money can go missing. I am sure if you went to work and your company dropped an hour here and there on your paycheck, that would be okay with you? Pull your head out and reserve your comments for issues you actually have an intellectual contribution for.

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Hey Sassy well thanks for letting me know, I found ourt today, this is another great thing then, what do they wnat 100 jiras of the same issue now to handle??? how is that better...really...

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Better for LL to have 100 duplicate Jira's than for everyone to know that there have been many instances of a problem for quite a while that haven't been fixed.

Also better because people can't add up the sum total of a financial "oops" based on Jira.

Also because it justifies the breakfast burritos, swag, and a $60-$80k salary for employees on code that is beyond the ability of the team to maintain.

Also because voting and watches on public Jira's gave LL staff a bad case of hives. They much prefer working on what they want other than features we request.

Also because we haven't had a CEO or product manager with a pair for quite a while.

 

 

 

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Marina Ramer wrote:

Hey Sassy well thanks for letting me know, I found ourt today, this is another great thing then, what do they wnat 100 jiras of the same issue now to handle??? how is that better...really...

Yes, their reason was that they could put the same ones together and triage it better.

My more cynical view is that it's more likely that many of those duplicates would go unrecognised and they'd thus potentially have 100 individual insignificant problems.

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I think its laughable that a Linden CSR tells you thast YOU have to ask your Marketplace customer, if this customer pays directly to you.. cause MP fails to transfer the money correctly, but gives out the ware..... why use MP then?

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Laura Liberty wrote:

Thanks for your relevant posting there MistahMoose. Considering you have nothing in the mp for sale, it is so nice that you would grace us with your knowledge and opinions. The OP said since April 2013 so common sense would tell you that if people do not check their transactions for these problems, a lot of money can go missing. I am sure if you went to work and your company dropped an hour here and there on your paycheck, that would be okay with you? Pull your head out and reserve your comments for issues you actually have an intellectual contribution for.

There is no need for personal attacks here, I was giving my opinion on the topic. Though if we're doing personal attacks, considering you have nothing even worth buying on the marketplace I'm surprised you care about this.

To the company dropping my hour every here and there, yes I am actually am okay with it due to the fact that I still have a job. Take life as it comes, if you demand a perfect life you'll be disappointed. Especially if you live only in a video game one. There are more important things to me than making money.

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MIstahMoose wrote:


Laura Liberty wrote:

Thanks for your relevant posting there MistahMoose. Considering you have nothing in the mp for sale, it is so nice that you would grace us with your knowledge and opinions. The OP said since April 2013 so common sense would tell you that if people do not check their transactions for these problems, a lot of money can go missing. I am sure if you went to work and your company dropped an hour here and there on your paycheck, that would be okay with you? Pull your head out and reserve your comments for issues you actually have an intellectual contribution for.

There is no need for personal attacks here,
I was giving my opinion on the topic
. Though if we're doing personal attacks,
considering you have nothing even worth buying on the marketplace I'm surprised you care about this.

To the company dropping my hour every here and there, yes I am actually am okay with it due to the fact that I still have a job. Take life as it comes, if you demand a perfect life you'll be disappointed. Especially if you live only in a video game one. There are more important things to me than making money.

You gave your opinion, yes, but not about a possible bug and LL's handling of it. Your opinion was about how those affected ought to feel.

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I thought 'failed delivery' meant no transaction occurred between the customer and the seller on MP whatsoever. If I'm wrong, I'm literally boned because I'm seeing a list of failed delivery every hour. I have no control over it. What the heck is going on? 

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There is your mistake!

In the real world yes, a transaction would encapsulate the whole order fulfillment and payment into one atomic operation that either completes in full or not at all.

In the case of Marketplace, it's all very loose.  If one bit works, then WOOOOT success for that bit, pass the job to do to the next part of the queue and hope for the best.  This seems to be the case for payment to the intermediary, delivery processing, payment to the merchant and ANS and email report.  All of those would appear to operate as loosely coupled processes all passing "jobs" to the next.

As we have observed, it should simply not be possible for a proper "transaction" to permit delivery without appropriate payment reconciliation - or not at all.

Imagine if a bank worked that way.  "I'm sorry mr/ms customer, I *know* it says you took money out on your statement but the machine didn't have any to give so we just show the amount as gone from your account anyway.  It happens, file a support ticket!"

At which point Support then say "sorry, YOU need to create a bug report within our system, there's nothing I can do, oh by the way, none of it is real money anyway until you hold it in your hand, therefore, it's just banking tokens and you agreed to absolve us from any problem whatsoever, have a lovely day!"

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Ok.... This is pretty bad lol.....

I submitted a ticket just now. There's nothing I can do about it except for sending them tickets. I really hope they'd patch this up as soon as possible and give us refunds for all the failed deliveries. That'd be something I'd consider good deeds. I'd complain about this issue but after last year's big marketplace crashdown, I'm just happy that this issue is relatively small. Phew. 

I noticed several merchants have taken down their MP stores today as the issue emerged. Sweet move. 

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Hope it gets fixed?  This is the JIRA that I opened that pertains to this and similar, created 2 years ago.

https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/WEB-4508

It has been classified as "Expected behaviour", i.e. forget it, wont' fix.

To be blunt, i'm not surprised, the whole system architecture is several bits all hanging together and it just about "works" and the issue would appear to be that there just isn't the developer resource available to really fix it in the way that it needs to be done so instead, it has been done in a way that integration between parts should work but there are multiple avenues down which it can fail.

Given that it took over a year for Direct Delivery, note: just the delivery replacement mechansim, to arrive and that isn't finished yet either, with no support for limited quantity items, that really tells about the resource and desire to address Marketplace infrastructure from corp.  You just have to consider the question "Is LL the impacted party here?"  answer is no, so it's a non issue as far as they are concerned.  Just game tokens remember...just game tokens!

What is a further kick in the teeth is that if you persist long enough, you might get a response and refund as a "goodwill gesture" which is nothing of the sort, it's COMPLETING THE FLIPPING TRANSACTION GESTURE.

I don't expect people to put in a huge amount of effort re-designing and re-writing a complex set of inter-related systems integration components just to account for the few failures compared to the normal runtime success.  We all have failures, our own products have issues from time to time.  I get this. 

What is important is how those issues are rectified and this is where it all goes horribly wrong within the realms of LL.

 

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I had a customer message me today stating that they paid for 2 items and only got one. When I checked my transactions on mp, it shows as both items failed and payment was not recieved. The customer is now requesting I send the item that they didn't get. I pointed out, "here is my record stating "no payment recieved, no items sent" , please send me proof of payment made so that we can investigate. sighs. kicks MP.

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Yes Mauve on my cause I found out because I got two e mails of 5 starts reviews of customers "so happy" with the products, products that thye got obviously but I never got payed for and I guess I wont

No answer to my jira yet either posted days ago, and answer to my tickets was " go ask yourself th emoney to your customers" very nice-!

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Hi Marina, this bug (the MP reporting failed delivery, but the customer paying and receiving the product and the Merchant not receiving funds) has happened in the past (last year during March and April for my store).  The answer from Support was the same at that time: contact the customer and ask for payment.

I am also experiencing this issue again and seeing it escalate.  For my store, after the failures in March and April, there were no other failures until November 2013. Then, in January 2014 and February 2014 (yes, it's only Feb 2), the incidence of failed delivery has increased rather sharply.  In most of the instances for my store, I can track subsequent purchases that do complete successfully by the same customers. I'm also seeing a higher incidence of "aborted" transactions which had always been very rare in the past.

Due to the rapid increase in failures, I filed a JIRA as well.  With the new JIRA system/bug reporting, we each have to do it individually, as has been pointed out by other posters here. 

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Arwen Serpente wrote:

The answer from Support was the same at that time: contact the customer and ask for payment.

I've read about a lot of ridiculous things that LL support has done on this forum, but this has to take the cake.  I know I shouldn't be surprised by their utter incompetence, but I simply can't help being awestruck by the level of stupidity they've achieved with this nonsense.

...Dres

ETA: It occurred to me to ask if anyone knows whether or not any of these customers were actually charged for their purchases.  Is it possible that they actually paid for what they bought and their payment just didn't go through like it's supposed to?  In other words, could LL actually be keeping it?

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