Hugsy Penguin Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Amethyst Jetaime wrote: So I did some research on this and ban lines and found, contrary to what is stated in other posts here, go to the height of 4096 now, per this wiki entry. From the link you provided: "If the parcel is simply not pubic access or restricted to certain Residents/groups, then the lines go up to 50 m above the terrain mesh." These are the most common ban lines that you'll find. My neighbor has this type of ban lines and I can fly over them all day long. I can also get out of any vehicle, fly my avatar over their parcel, press F to turn off fly mode, and trampoline on an invisible field. It's the explicit named bans that go up higher. IIRC, they used to only go to about 800 meters. Today, I believe they actually go to about 5000 meters. She may have some people banned by name, but for everyone else, the lines stop at 50m AGL. The ban lines this land owner is using are not only doing absolutely nothing to protect her skybox, they could actually be driving curious people into the sky to figure out why there's ban lines on the ground protecting empty land. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugsy Penguin Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Maelstrom Janus wrote: we never see aircraft flying in sl any more..... Join the group: SL Gridflight Take part in their SLGF Historic Kessel Run Challenge January 15th, 17th, and 18th 2014. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugsy Penguin Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Perrie Juran wrote: It sounds like someone is going to need to do some careful testing and possibly edit either that Wiki entry or this one: "Maximum "NO ENTRY" ban line height: is for all options 80 meter. Only the option 'Banned Residents' (named) has a 5020 meter ban line high, which is visible up to a high of 800 meter above the terrain mesh." http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Limits I have no idea what they're talking about with the 80 meter limit. To test, I found a parcel on a slope. The lowest ground is at ~140m and the highest ground at ~160m. No public access. Ban lines are displayed and effective to 50m AGL. Fly over the low end at ~190m and you can get over the land. Then fly towards the high end and you bounce off the ban area when the ground slopes up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillon Levenque Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Hugsy Penguin wrote: Maelstrom Janus wrote: we never see aircraft flying in sl any more..... Join the group: SL Gridflight Take part in their SLGF Historic Kessel Run Challenge January 15th, 17th, and 18th 2014. I was going to ask if that group is open enrollment, but I just checked online and it is. I'm a very infrequent flyer but I see there's a gridflight section through my neighborhood (Corsica) the first week of February and it looks like something that might be fun to watch. I don't remember seeing an airstrip in my travels, either, so it would be nice to learn where it is. Thanks for posting that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Hexem Posted January 16, 2014 Author Share Posted January 16, 2014 Hugsy Penguin wrote: Amethyst Jetaime wrote: So I did some research on this and ban lines and found, contrary to what is stated in other posts here, go to the height of 4096 now, per this wiki entry. From the link you provided: "If the parcel is simply not pubic access or restricted to certain Residents/groups, then the lines go up to 50 m above the terrain mesh." These are the most common ban lines that you'll find. My neighbor has this type of ban lines and I can fly over them all day long. I can also get out of any vehicle, fly my avatar over their parcel, press F to turn off fly mode, and trampoline on an invisible field. It's the explicit named bans that go up higher. IIRC, they used to only go to about 800 meters. Today, I believe they actually go to about 5000 meters. She may have some people banned by name, but for everyone else, the lines stop at 50m AGL. The ban lines this land owner is using are not only doing absolutely nothing to protect her skybox, they could actually be driving curious people into the sky to figure out why there's ban lines on the ground protecting empty land. Bingo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugsy Penguin Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Dillon Levenque wrote: I was going to ask if that group is open enrollment, but I just checked online and it is. I'm a very infrequent flyer but I see there's a gridflight section through my neighborhood (Corsica) the first week of February and it looks like something that might be fun to watch. I don't remember seeing an airstrip in my travels, either, so it would be nice to learn where it is. Thanks for posting that! A day or two before the grid flight, they send a notecard detailing all the airports and the exact flight path. Also, you can find airports here: Second Life Airport Information Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christin73 Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 I am wondering how high up the skybox is? i know the area around Honnoh Lee Field you have to have it a certain hight. The Airport owner sould be working with her on the issue to resolve it. because of that persons ban lines it makes the airport undesirable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Hexem Posted January 17, 2014 Author Share Posted January 17, 2014 Christin73 wrote: I am wondering how high up the skybox is? i know the area around Honnoh Lee Field you have to have it a certain hight. The Airport owner sould be working with her on the issue to resolve it. because of that persons ban lines it makes the airport undesirable. This is mainland. Anything goes. Anyone that's asked her about it has been put on the ban list. Including me. Means we can't even fly over it anymore. At this rate, we're either going to have to move the airport, or find some way to be super annoying within the TOS to make her leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillon Levenque Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Thanks again, for the link to airports. I can see why I missed some of the ones on the continent but there are three I've driven by multiple times and just not seen. Of course, I drive fast. The only time I can take my eyes off the road is when I'm buzzed into the stratosphere by a sim crossing (Corsica's can be pretty bad). Just looking at the work that was done to make those posters you showed and the bit I saw in the group's online information, it was clear to me that there would be a notecard defining things for every grid flight. That group has it 'together' as the saying goes. Organized. I like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lunar Core Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Or move on and ignore her. You know, the mature way out of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Hexem Posted January 17, 2014 Author Share Posted January 17, 2014 Pray tell how we ignore ban lines at the end of our runway? Would be great if muting/ignoring people would allow us to pass through them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lunar Core Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Pray tell why you do not use VTOL aircraft? Simply put, using tricks of any kind to fore someone else to move is underhanded and immature. They will not listen to reason, so find a way to work with what you have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pussycat Catnap Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Amethyst Jetaime wrote: Pussycat Catnap wrote: Amethyst Jetaime wrote: The airport owner planned it poorly or is using unsuitable land if planes need to fly into someone else's lot to take off. She is under no obligation to accommodate planes taking off and in fact may be using ban lines to keep them from crashing on her land or flying annoyingly low over her as well as keeping them away from her skybox, even though that may not be working. Pilots have no inherent rights to fly where they please. Depends on who was there first. If the airport existed for some time in harmony with prior builds - then the new land owner moving in may have the liberty to be a jerk - but that is not the same thing as being a jerk being acceptable conduct. Just because one has a liberty to engage in certain anti-community conduct does not make it ok. It doesn't make a difference who was there first since the possibility that the land could change hands and ban line be put up should have been taken into account when the airport was planned. As Gadget replied to my post, they made the decision to put the airport two sims away from open Linden owned land/water. It was based on finances, which is understandable. However they don't have the right to expect an adjoining landowner to accommodate their airport by not using ban lines if they choose to do so. I don't view the use of the rights that come with land ownership as anti-community behavior or being a jerk either. She pays for the land so has the right exercise her full rights. There is no "community" on the mainland that I ever experienced except in places where there is planned community such as Bay City or where all the landowners voluntarily agree to enter into one. Not everyone in SL is here to be part of a "community", nor are they required to. If someone thinks community means not using ban lines, they should have their land on a private estate that doesn't allow them or on an area of the mainland where all landowners agree voluntarily not to use them. This is the problem with mainland and why most of SL landowners prefer private estates. Mainland has no covenant and that can be a blessing to the landowner but a curse to their neighbors, as illustrated by this situation. That displays a typical libertarian selfish-perspective. "I paid for it, so the entire rest of the world can just suffer because my personal liberty trumps EVERYONE's interests." That's just not how the world works when you have to deal with other people. Just because someone can get away with something does not make it right. When you come into a place, a good person looks around and figure out a way to work well with others. A libertarian just tells everyone else to sod off because; liberty to get away with it, theirs, money, screw everyone else. That kind of mentality just creates animosity and conflict. And well look at what we have here. This land owner popped in, threw a big libertarian-my-rights-only temper tantrum at everyone else, messed up a whole community, and now has to deal with the resulting aggression - and has ended up shifting into fight mode with name-bans and such. Is creating all this frustration serving any good? No. That landowner is a wrongful actor, regardless of what the rules let her get away with - she's actively, and now even knowingly, working to injure others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernie Shippe Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Pussycat Catnap wrote: Just because someone can get away with something does not make it right. unfortunately, there are people who can't distinguish between rules/laws and ethics/morality. they think - if it's against the rules then you are a bad person and must be shamed/punished - if it's not against the rules, then you are a fine upstanding citizen. carrry on! life is more complicated than that -lost on some Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dresden Ceriano Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Pussycat Catnap wrote: Amethyst Jetaime wrote: Pussycat Catnap wrote: Amethyst Jetaime wrote: The airport owner planned it poorly or is using unsuitable land if planes need to fly into someone else's lot to take off. She is under no obligation to accommodate planes taking off and in fact may be using ban lines to keep them from crashing on her land or flying annoyingly low over her as well as keeping them away from her skybox, even though that may not be working. Pilots have no inherent rights to fly where they please. Depends on who was there first. If the airport existed for some time in harmony with prior builds - then the new land owner moving in may have the liberty to be a jerk - but that is not the same thing as being a jerk being acceptable conduct. Just because one has a liberty to engage in certain anti-community conduct does not make it ok. It doesn't make a difference who was there first since the possibility that the land could change hands and ban line be put up should have been taken into account when the airport was planned. As Gadget replied to my post, they made the decision to put the airport two sims away from open Linden owned land/water. It was based on finances, which is understandable. However they don't have the right to expect an adjoining landowner to accommodate their airport by not using ban lines if they choose to do so. I don't view the use of the rights that come with land ownership as anti-community behavior or being a jerk either. She pays for the land so has the right exercise her full rights. There is no "community" on the mainland that I ever experienced except in places where there is planned community such as Bay City or where all the landowners voluntarily agree to enter into one. Not everyone in SL is here to be part of a "community", nor are they required to. If someone thinks community means not using ban lines, they should have their land on a private estate that doesn't allow them or on an area of the mainland where all landowners agree voluntarily not to use them. This is the problem with mainland and why most of SL landowners prefer private estates. Mainland has no covenant and that can be a blessing to the landowner but a curse to their neighbors, as illustrated by this situation. That displays a typical libertarian selfish-perspective. "I paid for it, so the entire rest of the world can just suffer because my personal liberty trumps EVERYONE's interests." That's just not how the world works when you have to deal with other people. Just because someone can get away with something does not make it right. When you come into a place, a good person looks around and figure out a way to work well with others. A libertarian just tells everyone else to sod off because; liberty to get away with it, theirs, money, screw everyone else. That kind of mentality just creates animosity and conflict. And well look at what we have here. This land owner popped in, threw a big libertarian-my-rights-only temper tantrum at everyone else, messed up a whole community, and now has to deal with the resulting aggression - and has ended up shifting into fight mode with name-bans and such. Is creating all this frustration serving any good? No. That landowner is a wrongful actor, regardless of what the rules let her get away with - she's actively, and now even knowingly, working to injure others. Oh, please... you have no idea what motivation is behind this person's actions. It could very well be that the first few people to IM her about this issue were confrontational to the point of being rude, at which point she decided, "Screw it... I'm not dealing with these people." Of course, I'm just making this up, but it's just as plausible as the scenario you've set forth, in an attempt to vilify this person, who isn't here to tell their side of the story. ...Dres Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Jetaime Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 I'm going to start out by saying that I don't block boats from my parcels water or planes from passing over my land on the Blake Sea, even though it is my right to do it. It is my choice to do this. No one came to me and told me I had to do this or be considered a jerk or harassed me. I myself sail, fly and ride a motorcycle frequently. When I do this, I do run into ban lines as well as security systems. I don't get my panties in a twist and treat the person that put them there like a jerk, call them names, give them political labels, tell them they aren't being good citizens, or harass them. That is extremely childish and immature. I am not god of the grid and it is not my place to dictate my vision to anyone nor is it yours. I accommodate ban lines and security systems when I run into them and move on. Surprisingly to you apparently, its not that hard to do. Its people like you that want to impose your vision on everyone, even if they don't want to be part of it, that cause the animosity and conflict. It is their SL and they can live it as they choose on their own land as long as they observe the TOS and any covenant that exists for that region. It may not be how the world works in RL, but it is the way SL works. The mainland is set up as 'anything goes' as long as you don't violate the TOS. If LL, who are the gods of the grid, shared your vision there would be covenants and TOS rules about it. You seem to think you can impose your version of what is right or wrong on everyone else just because its your vision of what SL should be. Other people also have a vision and have a the absolute right to pursue it on the mainland. I love my parcel on the Blake Sea for the sailing and flying, but if someone came along and did something I hated on the parcel next to me and it irritated me enough, I'd move. I accept that because that is what mainland is all about. My other land where I want more control of what is next to me or what my neighbors do has always been either on my own estate where I set the rules or on a private estate whose rules I like. Your remedy and anyone else that thinks like you is the same. Buy your own sim where you can set the rules an enforce community or have your land on an estate that conforms to your vision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czari Zenovka Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Pussycat Catnap wrote: This is what security orbs are good for. Not the low end ones that often come free with prefab orbs. Get one like the Hippo brand one that you can configure to fractions of a meter. I use it to operate only inside the bounds of my home's walls. Nobody needs to know it is even there, and I have had people stand on my lawn and chat in bliss... where I welcome them doing so. But enter my private space and its a 0-second warning teleport out. Space that is inside the walls, behind locked doors. So the only way in is to teleport or to remote sit on the furniture - and if you do those things you KNOW you are entering somebody else's home. Especially as its decorated with art I like and pictures of my avatar and some friends. Oh wow! I didn't know there were orbs with tuning that precise! Thank you for posting this. I do like how you describe having your orb set up - only operating the orb within the walls of your home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czari Zenovka Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Amethyst Jetaime wrote: This is the problem with mainland and why most of SL landowners prefer private estates. Mainland has no covenant and that can be a blessing to the landowner but a curse to their neighbors, as illustrated by this situation. I've always loved living on Mainland, but I am fortunate in that the sim I have been on for 6 years has quite a few long term (5+ years) residents and we have all co-existed well. The shorter-term residents have overall been wonderful as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czari Zenovka Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Perrie Juran wrote: Maelstrom Janus wrote: Ah ban lines and security orbs - legalised griefing implements .... one of the many reasons we never see aircraft flying in sl any more..... Quit being an ostrich and maybe you'd see them. I both fly all the time and see aircraft all the time. I fly almost daily now. I've been flying recently as well and am in a group that offers flights. The daily flights offered are quite numerous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czari Zenovka Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Dillon Levenque wrote: Hugsy Penguin wrote: Maelstrom Janus wrote: we never see aircraft flying in sl any more..... Join the group: SL Gridflight Take part in their SLGF Historic Kessel Run Challenge January 15th, 17th, and 18th 2014. I was going to ask if that group is open enrollment, but I just checked online and it is. I'm a very infrequent flyer but I see there's a gridflight section through my neighborhood (Corsica) the first week of February and it looks like something that might be fun to watch. I don't remember seeing an airstrip in my travels, either, so it would be nice to learn where it is. Thanks for posting that! Dillon, if you find out any more info on when planes would be going over Corsica, I'd be interested in watching that as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qie Niangao Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Gadget Portal wrote: Amethyst Jetaime wrote: The airport owner planned it poorly or is using unsuitable land if planes need to fly into someone else's lot to take off. It was discussed. The answer was, "Well, it's L$500,000 to get a 1024 plot at the water. It's L$8192 to get a plot twice as large two sims in. We're getting the one that isn't priced by a **bleep**ing retard." Do I take it that this airport is on a 2048 sq.m. parcel? If so, no matter what shape of 2048, that's doomed and absurd and just silly. Somehow this obvious implication must be incorrect. In any case, the neighbor is also obviously an idiot. I don't care what people said about their mother; still an idiot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrie Juran Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Qie Niangao wrote: Gadget Portal wrote: Amethyst Jetaime wrote: The airport owner planned it poorly or is using unsuitable land if planes need to fly into someone else's lot to take off. It was discussed. The answer was, "Well, it's L$500,000 to get a 1024 plot at the water. It's L$8192 to get a plot twice as large two sims in. We're getting the one that isn't priced by a **bleep**ing retard." Do I take it that this airport is on a 2048 sq.m. parcel? If so, no matter what shape of 2048, that's doomed and absurd and just silly. Somehow this obvious implication must be incorrect. In any case, the neighbor is also obviously an idiot. I don't care what people said about their mother; still an idiot. Good catch. I set up a little runway and hanger on my 4096 and it is barely big enough. Sorry but not open to the public though I do allow my friends to use it. Start parking a few planes on it and your prim allowance is out the door. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theresa Tennyson Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Qie Niangao wrote: Gadget Portal wrote: Amethyst Jetaime wrote: The airport owner planned it poorly or is using unsuitable land if planes need to fly into someone else's lot to take off. It was discussed. The answer was, "Well, it's L$500,000 to get a 1024 plot at the water. It's L$8192 to get a plot twice as large two sims in. We're getting the one that isn't priced by a **bleep**ing retard." Do I take it that this airport is on a 2048 sq.m. parcel? If so, no matter what shape of 2048, that's doomed and absurd and just silly. Somehow this obvious implication must be incorrect. In any case, the neighbor is also obviously an idiot. I don't care what people said about their mother; still an idiot. I was going to say something similar - the big problem seems to be that this is a bad airport in an area with many good airports. (If it can be kneecapped by a surly neighbor it's automatically bad.) If the goal is to fly in the Blake Sea area there are plenty of other airports. If the goal's to run an airport there are many places throughout the Mainland continents where you can get much more appropriate land much cheaper - for instance, around some of the inland seas of Sansara. Take a look at the region "Grass", for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillon Levenque Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Czari Zenovka wrote: Dillon, if you find out any more info on when planes would be going over Corsica, I'd be interested in watching that as well. I thought you'd probably be interested. I joined the group last night; when I learn more about the Corsica event I'll pass it on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ObviousAltIsObvious Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 "only 50" was wrong, and that numbers in the wiki were too. The real heights are current ground elevation plus 50 meters for most types of ban lines, current ground elevation plus 5000 meters for explicit ban by name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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