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Why is there so much homophobia in Gorean role play sims and what can we do about it?

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53 minutes ago, Kweopi said:

If my post offended you, sorry.

It didn't offend me, it just very mildly irritated me because, like the previous one, it was beside the point. I'm not arguing with anyone's right to play in Gor, read the books or have a good time there. I'm arguing with someone claiming I shouldn't form an opinion based on my own experiences or express said opinion, even in a thread that's directly relevant. 

As for those people being s***ty people, well yes, of course they were. And my point there is that they used Gor to justify it and validate themselves. That's part of my objection to Gor: it validates such behaviours. Those books go so, so, so far beyond mere fantasy and storytelling. I've been told many times just to leave Gor if I hate it. Why do I have to keep explaining that I did, and it still caused trouble? 

As for the effeminate OP, yes, it's daft to go to a place that's pretty obviously going to attract homophobes and play an overtly gay character. I'd argue, though, that a barrage of OOC homophobic abuse is far worse than playing a bad choice of character in what's supposedly a consensual RP sim. But that's exactly what my experience of Gorean culture suggests would happen. It's built on something offensively hateful, why would anyone be surprised?

 

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On 7/29/2019 at 9:58 PM, Amina Sopwith said:

What? Of course it's homophobic. It's a quasi-religious hellhole based on a series of hateful, misogynistic, homophobic and unbearably stupid books that blueprint and romanticise abusive relationships, explicitly reject the crucial BDSM concept of power exchange and promote the very worst kind of toxic masculinity

The concept of a fantasy novel and roleplay went right above your head right? Whats next, complaining about Star Wars, because that universe contains slavery? If you want to get your panties in a twist about a book, that romanticises abusive relationships and breaks with BDSM concepts, then go and rant about 50 Shades of Grey.

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Posted (edited)

Norman's writing has struck an unexpectedly strong chord with some of his readers. Some take comfort in the thought of living a life by the codes of his fictional world, and others use it as a launching point for their own fantasies. The Gor books convinced readers that a life based on hierarchical dominance was desirable, and the internet has created communities for them to develop and further their "desires".

With no figurehead to guide them, those involved in the Gorean cult are at liberty to make of their Gor obsession what they will. Some have inevitably used the lure of the Gorean lifestyle for their own nefarious ends.

Two years after Lee Thompson, the Darlington sex cult leader first received a visit from the police, he was jailed for forcing another woman to have sex with other men against her will. Clearly, a world in which men keep women as slaves is not as idyllic as many Goreans would hope.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4996410.stm

Edited by Selene Gregoire

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3 hours ago, Syo Emerald said:

The concept of a fantasy novel and roleplay went right above your head right? Whats next, complaining about Star Wars, because that universe contains slavery? If you want to get your panties in a twist about a book, that romanticises abusive relationships and breaks with BDSM concepts, then go and rant about 50 Shades of Grey.

No, the concept of a series of novels where every nasty incident is followed by 3000 pages about why this should all be taken extremely seriously and is how society should really be, and anyone who disagrees is repressed or ugly. I'm not exaggerating when I say it's religious, so it's not surprising it attracts religious people. I wondered if Norman was trolling initially, but my God. Nobody invests THAT much energy in something they don't believe.

I noticed that Maddy invoked the Roland Barthes death-of-the-author concept, which is interesting because it was something I thought of myself while I was trying to make head and tail of the place. However, when the overriding cultural drive is to be as "by the book" and "truly Gorean" as possible, with countless new sims springing up because the other one wasn't "by the book" and "truly Gorean" and endless quoting the canon at each other to try to prove who's right, it becomes a bit moot. They say they want to be "by the book" and "truly Gorean", so look at the books for an idea of what they claim to be striving towards. Yes, I'm judging.

I'm not a fan of 50 Shades but Gor, with its Texas Chainsaw Massacre style orgy of hatefulness in which women fall passionately in love with men who beat them senseless, throw them into sacks of manure and burn them with white hot irons (followed by lengthy screed about why this is terrific), really left 50 Shades in the dust.

Once again, I'm not denying people's right to read it or RP it. That's not a concept I have trouble understanding or accepting.

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4 hours ago, Syo Emerald said:

 because that universe contains slavery?

what Amina said and, surprisingly, I also agree, not the existence of slavery and violence is the problem but its glorification. Gor proposes a philosophy of life that violates almost all the contemporary norms of common sense. Not my cup of tea .What makes me happy is the fact, (one gorean master told me that, blame him if is a lie) more than 50% of the slave girls involved are  males behind the keyboard.

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33 minutes ago, Kweopi said:

50% of the slave girls involved are  males behind the keyboard.

That would explain some of the macho behavior of some of the kajira.

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Posted (edited)
44 minutes ago, Kweopi said:

what Amina said and, surprisingly, I also agree, not the existence of slavery and violence is the problem but its glorification. Gor proposes a philosophy of life that violates almost all the contemporary norms of common sense. 

Bang on. This is why I get so tired of the "oh so we can't have stories that include horrible stuff, can we?" strawman nonsense.

The problem isn't a story set in a world that includes slavery. It's a didactic story that explicitly, through the narrative, mouthpiece characters and the actual authorial voice itself, promotes this as a desirable thing and anyone who disagrees is, for whatever reason, wrong (in Gor, the reason for you being wrong will depend on your sex, and, if you're female, whether you're attractive or not).

You are free to read this sh*t. You are free to roleplay it and promote it with other consenting pillocks if you don't impose it on others (as many Goreans I knew did - impose it on others, that is). But you don't get to do it without blowback. When someone asks why your world based on books loaded with misogyny and hate attracts homophobes, be prepared for honest answers from people who are familiar with it. And be prepared to have others form opinions, because this is the company you keep.

Edited by Amina Sopwith
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1 hour ago, Amina Sopwith said:

I'm not a fan of 50 Shades but Gor, with its Texas Chainsaw Massacre style orgy of hatefulness in which women fall passionately in love with men who beat them senseless, throw them into sacks of manure and burn them with white hot irons (followed by lengthy screed about why this is terrific), really left 50 Shades in the dust.

I would say quite the opposite. Gor is so over-the-top, that only a complete nutjob would take it at face value and think this is how reality should or even can be. Gor might be disgusting, tasteless and horrible, but its not set in reality. But people do enjoy disgusting fantasies. And many disgusting fantasies are absolutly rough to stomach by their explicit and extreme nature. Gor is not an exclusion from that. But its still roleplay and therefore all participants are consenting people and nobody gets violated. And its really hard to worry so much about Gor, when you know that there is so much ***** out there enjoyed by people. The "obsession" of some roleplayers with how much their character concept or sim is "by the books" never stroke me as worring or weird. I've always seen this as the Gor version of every roleplays endless fight over the lore...and boy, people can be really passionate about that, in either direction.

50 Shades on the other hand feels actually worse to me. Sure, its content is a lot less violent and extreme, but its more attached to reality and a lot more sneaky. How many women out there wouldn't see/know whats wrong with 50 Shades? Probably a lot more than Gor people who truely believe their roleplay should be lived as reality.

 

Disclaimer, as I do think the tone of further replies makes it necessary: I do not participate in Gor, nor do I have any kind feelings towards it. But I'm a roleplayer and  therefore I have a strong opinion when it comes to questioning players RL idiology and character based on what they enjoy playing. Especially when I have to assume, it comes from non-roleplayers. Gor might be extreme, but saying everyone who plays it is a RL misogonist and sees the novels as their religion, is the first step to questioning every roleplayer out there why they aren't playing a family friendly, political correct character and setting.

 

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57 minutes ago, Kweopi said:

What makes me happy is the fact, (one gorean master told me that, blame him if is a lie) more than 50% of the slave girls involved are  males behind the keyboard.

lol very possibly, and certainly some are. But, whatever floats their boat! If they can roleplay it well, more power to them. A fair number of the 'gorean masters' roleplayers are female too btw (often the best looking ones). 

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11 minutes ago, Syo Emerald said:

Gor might be extreme, but saying everyone who plays it is a RL misogonist and sees the novels as their religion, is the first step to questioning every roleplayer out there why they aren't playing a family friendly, political correct character and setting.

 

Yep. And, ironically, SL Gor isn't that extreme. A lot of happy family RP goes on there. I haven't RP'd there in years myself, but I keep in touch with friends who do. 

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32 minutes ago, Syo Emerald said:

I would say quite the opposite. Gor is so over-the-top, that only a complete nutjob would take it at face value and think this is how reality should or even can be.

We agree on something...

47 minutes ago, Syo Emerald said:

The "obsession" of some roleplayers with how much their character concept or sim is "by the books" never stroke me as worring or weird.

Well, it worried the hell out of me. In the interests of being "by the book" and "truly Gorean", there were people claiming they'd been doing home branding in RL; could have been bollocks, I certainly hope so, but they definitely wanted you to think it was true. Also in the interests of being "truly Gorean" and "by the book", I was told to submit to graphic and entirely unnecessary RP involving having my tongue cut out, being covered in vomit and sewage, being hamstrung and having my bones extensively and lengthily broken, or be banned from the sim. I know, life is full of difficult choices. I figured they wouldn't care too much if I opted for the latter, after all the whole lore is too impossibly silly to take seriously and consent is king, right? Apparently not.

I understand what you're saying about consensual RP, and before I ever went to Gor that was how I'd thought of it; assumed everyone was there by consent and nothing else to it. But this goes back to the stories I've already told numerous times about other RP sims being overtaken by Goreans to become Gorean in practice, even if they were actually supposed to be something entirely different. I recall it happening on three occasions and damn it I loved those sims. Or the Goreans who leapt into my IMs to abuse me when I was RPing in a non-Gor sim with someone else, or when I told them I wouldn't be coming back. In my experience, it was a culture that had a tendency to attract people who did not actually really care about consent as much as they claimed. (And I know I keep saying this but...why is anyone who's read those turds surprised by this????) I'm afraid that it's also an established fact that many women find it very hard to leave abusive relationships; I could write a book as to why this is, I believe many people have, but let's just say...Norman knows how abusive relationships work. Oh my, does he. 

 

1 hour ago, Syo Emerald said:

Gor might be extreme, but saying everyone who plays it is a RL misogonist and sees the novels as their religion, is the first step to questioning every roleplayer out there why they aren't playing a family friendly, political correct character and setting.

I'm not going to argue with others who say they hate Gor but their Gorean friends are wonderful, amazing people; that's their experience. To me, everyone who plays Gor is, on a certain level, showing a degree of tolerance to RL misogynistic texts and for that I'm going to give them the side eye. (If nothing else, they're going to be making John Norman happy and they deserve a slap with a wet kipper for that alone.) I've spent time in their world and engaged with their people. Is every single last one of them a sociopath or a simpleton? Of course not, but enough of them are to create an overall culture that I find repellent. Others don't, clearly, because Gor is extremely popular and longstanding. But that's my experience, and no, I'm not going to shut up about it in relevant threads just because Goreans don't like it. 

Nor do I accept that questioning the motives of these specific role-players around these specific hateful texts necessarily extends to everyone who's engaging in adult RP. As Scylla pointed out a while ago, while there may be misogynists in BDSM, the actual philosophy of BDSM itself isn't gendered, but Gor is, very much so. That makes a difference.

You say you think it's no different to arguing over other RP lore, such as whether there could be vampires in Middle Earth that Tolkien just didn't write about. I'd say that the stakes are a bit higher in Gor due to the very nature of it, and therefore it's not really comparable. And in my experience anyway, it was only Goreans who'd argue and throw quotes at each other until they were blue in the face and then stalk off and create 200 new sims where the Real True Gorean Nightmare Vision could finally be realised. Middle Earthers just pratted about for an evening, then had a glass of mead and buggered off to the Shire.

As a small aside, I do wonder why, throughout this entire thread, there seems to be more emphasis on defending Gor and all who fail in her than outrage over the homophobic abuse suffered by the OP. Are people really not actually utterly appalled by this? 

Someone noted earlier that awful people will always be awful people, no matter what channel they're on, and to a degree I suppose that's true. However, while I don't believe that video games create killers, I do believe that if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes into you. And my God, is Gor an abyss. 
 

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26 minutes ago, animats said:

The most common female sexual fantasy is male domination. 62% in one study. Hence, Gor. There's a market.

 

Male domination doesn’t necessarily mean Gor,

lol or anything close to it.

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Posted (edited)
44 minutes ago, animats said:

The most common female sexual fantasy is male domination. 62% in one study. Hence, Gor. There's a market.

 

I'm one of them. I've got no problem with male domination master/slave fantasy (that's what drew me to try Gor in the first place). I've got no problem with designated male dominant areas either, though I wouldn't go to them because my experience is that they don't attract men that I like. 

I do, however, have a problem with books that expound, at length, about why it really is an RL terrific idea to burn women with hot irons, to throw them into sacks of manure, or leave them for hours on blocks of ice. An author who is incapable of creating any female character who isn't a flat misogynistic cliche (his favourite is a beautiful, rich, spoiled, b*tchy woman who hates all other females, gets really angry if she sees someone who's prettier than she is, and who, of course, gets exactly what she deserves in the end. Do women actually read this?). Who promotes negging and sexual rejection as side orders to the endless physical torture. As I've said before, I could excuse this as fantasy and storytelling except that it's always followed by 500 pages about why it REALLY IS a great idea, and if you disagree then you're repressed and wrong if you're a man or a pretty woman. If you're a woman who means it, you're just ugly. I am not making this up.

I also have a problem with explicitly rejecting power exchange: the concept through which a Dom thinks hard about where to take his sub and does actually have her needs in mind while he takes control, and the crucial difference between BDSM and abuse.

ETA: I know Doms and subs can be either gender, but this is the dynamic we're talking about here. You know what I mean.

 

Edited by Amina Sopwith

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2 hours ago, Amina Sopwith said:

You say you think it's no different to arguing over other RP lore, such as whether there could be vampires in Middle Earth that Tolkien just didn't write about. I'd say that the stakes are a bit higher in Gor due to the very nature of it, and therefore it's not really comparable. And in my experience anyway, it was only Goreans who'd argue and throw quotes at each other until they were blue in the face and then stalk off and create 200 new sims where the Real True Gorean Nightmare Vision could finally be realised. Middle Earthers just pratted about for an evening, then had a glass of mead and buggered off to the Shire.

How are the stakes higher in Gor? Do you feel actually treatend by Gor roleplayers, who argue about their lore?

And from my experiance the disputes between roleplayers in other universes are just the same. I've seen a lot of drama going down over the years that I've played both in WoW and Swtor, for example. More often than not, people never reached a point of agreement and it usually resulted in pettyness and some version of "I'm making my own XY...but better than yours!"

2 hours ago, Amina Sopwith said:

Nor do I accept that questioning the motives of these specific role-players around these specific hateful texts necessarily extends to everyone who's engaging in adult RP. As Scylla pointed out a while ago, while there may be misogynists in BDSM, the actual philosophy of BDSM itself isn't gendered, but Gor is, very much so. That makes a difference.

So its just a problem, because its gendered? I mean, leaving Gor out of the equation for a moment, there are lots of fetish and fantasy settings that toy around with gendered settings and include pretty bad stuff. Is it just bad, if the setting has a gender componant?

2 hours ago, Amina Sopwith said:

As a small aside, I do wonder why, throughout this entire thread, there seems to be more emphasis on defending Gor and all who fail in her than outrage over the homophobic abuse suffered by the OP. Are people really not actually utterly appalled by this? 

The reason for that is simple, I think: This thread as been necro'd. The OP is long gone, their issue has been discussed ages ago. So at least for any of the newer replies it makes sense to not adress the OP anymore.

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14 minutes ago, Syo Emerald said:

How are the stakes higher in Gor?....So its just a problem, because its gendered? I mean, leaving Gor out of the equation for a moment, there are lots of fetish and fantasy settings that toy around with gendered settings and include pretty bad stuff. Is it just bad, if the setting has a gender componant?

There are certainly other role-play groups and settings that I find objectionable. If I've given the impression that Gor is the only thing that offends me, my apologies. But it's what we're talking about here and I do think that, for various reasons, it does stand alone.

As I mentioned, BDSM philosophy is not gendered, and Gor is. So while it does not necessarily follow that all Gorean role-players are RL misogynists, they're playing along a misogynistic philosophy and misogynistic texts. (Really, they are SO misogynistic. I have read plenty of male dominant erotica that isn't hateful.) Don't be surprised if people have questions.

Gor also stands alone, in my opinion, because it exists as a self-contained and semi-religious subculture in a way that other BDSM environments, even if gendered, don't. The screed, the rules, the rituals, the immersive self-contained universe. It appeals to people, I don't deny it, and there is a religious draw in it that I have not personally seen in, for example, superheroines in peril or dancing girl Arabian Nights sims. Probably because even these sims are taking a non-gendered BDSM philosophy and applying it to a gendered context, whereas in Gor, the real actual philosophy itself is based around women being basically subhuman. (Norman does like the phrase "the female animal", have you noticed?)

 

15 minutes ago, Syo Emerald said:

The reason for that is simple, I think: This thread as been necro'd. The OP is long gone, their issue has been discussed ages ago. So at least for any of the newer replies it makes sense to not adress the OP anymore.


It's from 2014 so yes, it's old. And I'll admit my experience of Gor is old too. Perhaps the culture has changed. But the books and the resulting philosophy haven't, so I'm guessing that the apples aren't suddenly flying many miles from the tree. The philosophy of Gor, where all men should be X and all women should be Y, is quite obviously going to draw homophobes. If I'm wrong about Gor today, I'm totally prepared to miss out. I still hate the place, I hate its source and yes, I give a side eye to anyone who tacitly tolerates it. It's my side eye to give. 

Small additional thought on the "Gor is too ridiculous to take seriously" thing. Well, there is indeed no actual Counter Earth run by alien grasshoppers, unless NASA are REALLY pulling a fast one on us. But again, the actual philosophy Norman espouses is all too recognisable here on Earth. Male entitlement (I hate that term but it really is the only one you can use for a belief in which men have an institutional superiority to women literally just because they're men) and negging, to name but two. The rest of it - the intensity and contrasts of an abusive relationship, the idea that women should be punished for rejecting a man, that women are vapid, b*tchy, competitive and hate each other, that feminists are repressed, ugly or a combination of the two, that women need rape as discipline etc etc etc...well, Norman might tell us that that's Gorean, but it's actually pretty well established here.
 

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Just to clear up a misconception - "By the Book" Gor roleplay in SL was termed so to distinguish it from "Gor Evolved" which had Xena-style warrior women, slavegirls with demon horns, and guys in spiked leather biker outfits... you get the idea. It was simply about look and feel and character roles, at least on the sims I played on (which was at least half a dozen - not counting road trips). Gay characters could fit into a BtB sim, it would just be a rather restrictive role. I actually played one for a time, but since I played a female no one much cared. Ye olde double standard...

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38 minutes ago, Akane Nacht said:

Just to clear up a misconception - "By the Book" Gor roleplay in SL was termed so to distinguish it from "Gor Evolved" which had Xena-style warrior women, slavegirls with demon horns, and guys in spiked leather biker outfits... you get the idea. 

I never heard the term Gor Evolved or knew of any such sims while I was involved in Gor. My understanding was that it was a later phenomenon. If the term has changed definition now, I'll accept that but it definitely had a specific connotation while I was there. God, the endless quoting and arguing over the text...

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40 minutes ago, Amina Sopwith said:

I never heard the term Gor Evolved or knew of any such sims while I was involved in Gor. My understanding was that it was a later phenomenon. If the term has changed definition now, I'll accept that but it definitely had a specific connotation while I was there. God, the endless quoting and arguing over the text...

Not sure when GE first appeared, but it's been around at least 6 or 7 years. Now there is Super Evolved Gor. No clue what that is as it's after my time. Yep, definitions keep on changing according to the tastes of the RP community.

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16 hours ago, Selene Gregoire said:

Norman's writing has struck an unexpectedly strong chord with some of his readers. Some take comfort in the thought of living a life by the codes of his fictional world, and others use it as a launching point for their own fantasies. The Gor books convinced readers that a life based on hierarchical dominance was desirable, and the internet has created communities for them to develop and further their "desires".

With no figurehead to guide them, those involved in the Gorean cult are at liberty to make of their Gor obsession what they will. Some have inevitably used the lure of the Gorean lifestyle for their own nefarious ends.

Two years after Lee Thompson, the Darlington sex cult leader first received a visit from the police, he was jailed for forcing another woman to have sex with other men against her will. Clearly, a world in which men keep women as slaves is not as idyllic as many Goreans would hope.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4996410.stm

Having seen the documentary made about this guy before his arrest; he's mentally ill. I don't mean that in a "lol bad people = mental" way; you can clearly see that he is not fit to be left in charge of an ice cream stand, let alone the lives of multiple women. I'm glad that he's behind bars, and I hope that he gets the help he needs before his release - or he'll almost certainly commit these same crimes again.

I'm not insinuating anything about the mental health of Gorean roleplayers... just that the most high profile incidents of people taking this roleplay into the real world are men that aren't exactly firing on all cylinders, and most likely would be a danger to vulnerable women with or without the books.

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6 hours ago, AyelaNewLife said:

Having seen the documentary made about this guy before his arrest; he's mentally ill. I don't mean that in a "lol bad people = mental" way; you can clearly see that he is not fit to be left in charge of an ice cream stand, let alone the lives of multiple women. I'm glad that he's behind bars, and I hope that he gets the help he needs before his release - or he'll almost certainly commit these same crimes again.

I'm not insinuating anything about the mental health of Gorean roleplayers... just that the most high profile incidents of people taking this roleplay into the real world are men that aren't exactly firing on all cylinders, and most likely would be a danger to vulnerable women with or without the books.

Frankly, all of those who choose to live this so called lifestyle in rl are mentally unstable. Norman's writings simply pushed them over the edge. Time after time after time. I wonder how many more women are going to lose their lives to RL Gorean "masters".  I've had one friends' body found in a dumpster. 

I wonder if old age has caught up with Ubar Luther or Marcus of Ar yet. They've both been in the lifestyle for more than 20 years. I have spoken with both of them in the distant past.

Don't just skim the article, actually read it and pay close attention to what the lifers are saying. Then come back and tell me it's just roleplay being taken into RL. 

https://www.salon.com/2000/05/18/gor/

 

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, Amina Sopwith said:

I never heard the term Gor Evolved or knew of any such sims while I was involved in Gor. My understanding was that it was a later phenomenon. If the term has changed definition now, I'll accept that but it definitely had a specific connotation while I was there. God, the endless quoting and arguing over the text...

GE came well after BtB. Years after. BtB existed in Active Worlds where most of the original Goreans came to SL from. They brought BtB with them. 

That's a rather odd thought, Goreans migrating from AW to SL... but it happened.

Edited by Selene Gregoire

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, Akane Nacht said:

Not sure when GE first appeared, but it's been around at least 6 or 7 years. Now there is Super Evolved Gor. No clue what that is as it's after my time. 


Well, that is after my experience of Gor. So the 'by the bookers' I knew were most definitely not trying to differentiate it from a Hells Angels style rebrand. My understanding is that GE came up a turd pretty quickly. I don't even want to know what SEG is. Anything that pairs "Gor" with "evolved" is going to be a stonking misnomer. 

When I returned to SL after a long hiatus, I was actually a bit interested to hear about Gor Evolved. Could this, I wondered, be an improvement on the old crap? Nope, it was just the same old stuff in different clothing because the Gorean Masters finally started wibbling after realising that they'd been pratting about in dresses for umpteen years.

 

1 hour ago, Selene Gregoire said:

I've had one friends' body found in a dumpster. 

My God. She was acting out a Gorean relationship in RL?

 

9 hours ago, AyelaNewLife said:

Having seen the documentary made about this guy before his arrest; he's mentally ill. I don't mean that in a "lol bad people = mental" way; you can clearly see that he is not fit to be left in charge of an ice cream stand, let alone the lives of multiple women. I'm glad that he's behind bars, and I hope that he gets the help he needs before his release - or he'll almost certainly commit these same crimes again.

I'm not insinuating anything about the mental health of Gorean roleplayers... just that the most high profile incidents of people taking this roleplay into the real world are men that aren't exactly firing on all cylinders, and most likely would be a danger to vulnerable women with or without the books.

I take the point about awful people being awful people on whatever channel, but I repeat that when you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes into you. The very fact that Gor attracts these kinds of dangerous people tells you something very significant about what it is and why I really, really, really don't like it. Besides, according to Gorean philosophy, all men are inherently superior to all women and there's nothing in it to suggest that mental illness would change this. Certainly it wasn't an issue I ever heard discussed. When you have inexperienced and/or suggestible people (both dom and sub) who are open to learning about different ways of interpreting BDSM, a philosophy like this which legitimises and validates such behaviour, can be absolutely downright dangerous, as this Gorean and those like him have proven.

Edited by Amina Sopwith

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1 hour ago, Amina Sopwith said:

My God. She was acting out a Gorean relationship in RL?

She went to meet her master in rl and ended up in a dumpster. Another girl, who was never involved online, barely survived being hunted with bow and arrow. There have been a few deaths as the result of RL Gorean practices. The ones I know of occurred before SL ever existed.

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