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Why is there so much homophobia in Gorean role play sims and what can we do about it?

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3 minutes ago, CoffeeDujour said:

Starting to sound a lot like plain ole homophobia and trying to find some way to make it acceptable.. 

Cunning plan. If you don't like teh gay, don't do teh gay.

May I ask how is a man not wanting to participate or watch two men having sex homophobia? I really don't want to walk in on anyone having sex, and I have my preferences who I want to have sex with. He is not saying, that he is against gay people, he is just saying men don't want to watch or participate. That to me comes down to sexual orientation, what anyone is comfortable with. It's just like a woman, who doesn't want to participate or watch two women go at it. Not homophobia, that is not hating upon people who are gay. Just men who want nothing to do with watching or participating in it.

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1 hour ago, Jaime Spingflower said:

It is not about looking for someone else to roleplay with...Men do not want to participate or watch two men having sex in a roleplay sim designated for "manly men", so then the slave girls have no one to roleplay with.   Like I said...if it were about being a Dragon, gay or not, you should dress like a dragon.

Then I'd suggest find a sim that has rules about that, or, just avoid the roleplay you don't fancy. Most RP sims don't police what goes on behind closed doors though, when ICly no one else would see it, esp if it's in a private rental home.

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The Gor books are fantasy novels of male domination of women. If you want something else, find another novelist upon which to base your roleplay.

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Posted (edited)

What? Of course it's homophobic. It's a quasi-religious hellhole based on a series of hateful, misogynistic, homophobic and unbearably stupid books that blueprint and romanticise abusive relationships, explicitly reject the crucial BDSM concept of power exchange and promote the very worst kind of toxic masculinity. The kind of man who's drawn to that sort of thing isn't generally secure, liberal or smart enough not to wet himself in terror at the thought of two men loving each other. What do they say about homophobic men? That they're frightened a man might treat them the way they treat women?

Pishing myself at the idea of it being for "manly men". Wasn't there recently an attempt at "Gor Evolved" because they'd finally realised that they've been running around sims in dresses since year dot and wondered what it might look like?

Edited by Amina Sopwith
Gor, not God.
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8 minutes ago, Amina Sopwith said:

What? Of course it's homophobic. It's a quasi-religious hellhole based on a series of hateful, misogynistic, homophobic and unbearably stupid books that blueprint and romanticise abusive relationships, explicitly reject the crucial BDSM concept of power exchange and promote the very worst kind of toxic masculinity. The kind of man who's drawn to that sort of thing isn't generally secure, liberal or smart enough not to wet himself in terror at the thought of two men loving each other. What do they say about homophobic men? That they're frightened a man might treat them the way they treat women?

Pishing myself at the idea of it being for "manly men". Wasn't there recently an attempt at "God Evolved" because they'd finally realised that they've been running around sims in dresses since year dot and wondered what it might look like?

Sigh.. if you don't like Gor don't play on Gor sims. No need to judge people who do.

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Akane Nacht said:

Sigh.. if you don't like Gor don't play on Gor sims. No need to judge people who do.

What's wrong in damning people that behave utterly wrong to one's own values? Tolerate them? Yes, that is what civilisation commands from us. But I reserve the right to judge them none the less.

Edited by Fionalein
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18 minutes ago, Akane Nacht said:

Sigh.. if you don't like Gor don't play on Gor sims. No need to judge people who do.

I'm judging the hateful books that I've read and the Goreans I've known, a number of whom claimed to have read the same books I had. I spent months there in every sim and role I could find...I did actually want to like the place. If you read that hatefulness and didn't find it repellent, well, that's your call, but don't expect me not to form an opinion about it.

Anyway, I did stay away from Gor once I realised what it was about. And my other huge gripe was that they overran and ruined every other capture/combat RP sim I ever loved by making them Gorean in practice. Even when they were supposed to be Arabian Nights or Ancient Rome.  It was a lack of effective moderation, true, but it was also just...yeah. That's the culture.

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9 hours ago, Fionalein said:

What's wrong in damning people that behave utterly wrong to one's own values? Tolerate them? Yes, that is what civilisation commands from us. But I reserve the right to judge them none the less.

Up to you. I poked fun at the Gor playerbase too, til I actually made friends there. Then I felt like a jerk. 
 

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44 minutes ago, Akane Nacht said:

Up to you. I poked fun at the Gor playerbase too, til I actually made friends there. Then I felt like a jerk. 
 

I don't.

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On 7/7/2018 at 10:14 AM, Dillon Levenque said:

Whenever I hear this song these days I'm reminded of something I saw across the street. There's a very nice lady over there named Circle Widdershins, and something she said is being used as a signature line by another forumite (I forget who).

"Sweet dreams are made of cheese, who am I to dis a brie?"

I did manage to save a few.

Cheese3_zpsroousbmd.thumb.jpg.bc975a94890e0c9d81099a2e940cff0e.jpg

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1 hour ago, Akane Nacht said:

apparently not 😊

Nope. Why would I?

You poked fun at Gor, discovered the books and the culture and then felt guilty. I didn't poke fun at Gor, discovered the books and culture and now I'd feel guilty if I didn't. 

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4 hours ago, Amina Sopwith said:

You poked fun at Gor, discovered the books and the culture and then felt guilty. 

uh.. no. I made friends and discovered many of them were nice people. 

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29 minutes ago, Akane Nacht said:

uh.. no. I made friends and discovered many of them were nice people. 

That's nice. I met people there and had a different experience, as did the OP of this admittedly ancient thread. And the more I read of that hateful source material (and it is hateful - it's not the concept of a male dominance master-slave fantasy that I find objectionable), the more explicable it became.

I don't recall anything about gay men in the Gor turds I read, but there were a couple of not-so-veiled references to lesbians. Anyone want to take a guess at what John Norman thinks they need to have done to them?

 

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14 hours ago, Amina Sopwith said:

Anyone want to take a guess at what John Norman thinks they need to have done to them?

nope.gif

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15 hours ago, Amina Sopwith said:

That's nice.

Yes it is. Tends to happen when one adopts a philosophy of live and let live. 😊

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3 hours ago, Akane Nacht said:

Yes it is. Tends to happen when one adopts a philosophy of live and let live. 😊

Oh look, a cutesy emoji. That's me told.

As I told you, I did leave, after numerous horrible experiences in the place. They still came and overran and ruined other capture/combat sims, making them Gorean in practice. They also jumped into my IMs while I was RPing with other people in one-on-one adventure playgrounds to tell me off for how I was interacting with my own Dom (one, a slave oddly enough, told me I was "sick in the head" and needed to come to Gor to get what I deserved). Would you like to hear about what some of those Gorean Masters said to me after I told them I would not be returning to them? And did you read the OP of this thread?

I know you don't like the fact that I don't share your opinions or experience of Gor, Akane, and that I'm quite open about saying so, but I am simply relating what happened to me and, of course, the sickening hate of those books. I finally stopped reading when Norman made reference to the real life human trafficking trade, you know, the one involving real life kidnap, rape and murder of real life women and children, and told us it was natural and correct and a sign of how wonderful his philosophy is. Apparently all the women who disappeared actually were taken to Gor to fulfil their true purpose. Yes, I'm offended. It apparently didn't bother you, well, it bothered me. 

I've never called for the books or sims to be banned, for all the obvious reasons, but that free expression thing cuts both ways. 

I wish you well. 

 

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On 7/29/2019 at 11:17 PM, Amina Sopwith said:

I'm judging the hateful books that I've read and the Goreans I've known, a number of whom claimed to have read the same books I had. I spent months there in every sim and role I could find...I did actually want to like the place. If you read that hatefulness and didn't find it repellent, well, that's your call, but don't expect me not to form an opinion about it.
 

 

20 hours ago, Akane Nacht said:

uh.. no. I made friends and discovered many of them were nice people. 

A Muslim and a Christian were at odds once on a religious theme. Because they did not reach any results, they decided to appeal to a neutral judge, a rabbi to give them a conclusion.
For the first time, the rabbi listened to the Christian's argument and at the end said "You're right."
Hearing this, the Muslim responded with his own argument to which, in the end, the rabbi said: "You are right too."

the rabbi's assistant came in and said," Rabbi, they cannot be both right at the same time". The rabbi stood for a few minutes, thought, and said, "You are right too."

 

Do you know that you are both right, as I am when I say this?

 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Kweopi said:

Do you know that you are both right, as I am when I say this?

Yes, thank you, rabbi. I've never denied Akane's experience or anyone else's. If she says she had a good time in Gor, it's not my place to tell her she didn't (I can't deny its popularity), though there have been numerous Goreans who were keen to tell me I was doing my own sex life wrong. I'm not going to hold back on the godawful time I had there, though, or the hateful screed that inspired it.

Akane has basically asked me to shut up about it (politely, with cutesy emojis) and I'm afraid the answer is no. I am offended by misogyny, homophobia, romanticisation of abusive relationships and fetishisation of real life human trafficking. And I am offended by the behaviour I came across in Gor at a sustained cultural level, which followed me to other sims even when I tried to leave.

Yar boo sucks, and John Norman smells of kippers. 

Edited by Amina Sopwith
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On 8/1/2019 at 2:29 PM, Kweopi said:

 

A Muslim and a Christian were at odds once on a religious theme. Because they did not reach any results, they decided to appeal to a neutral judge, a rabbi to give them a conclusion.
For the first time, the rabbi listened to the Christian's argument and at the end said "You're right."
Hearing this, the Muslim responded with his own argument to which, in the end, the rabbi said: "You are right too."

the rabbi's assistant came in and said," Rabbi, they cannot be both right at the same time". The rabbi stood for a few minutes, thought, and said, "You are right too."

 

Do you know that you are both right, as I am when I say this?

 

one of my fave scenes 😁

 

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I feel you are both missing my point. That Akane likes what I do not like and had a different experience (as I was careful to put it earlier), is clearly unquestionably true, and not something I've ever denied. I'm not concerned here about multiple truths and postmodernism. 

It's that Akane is telling me I shouldn't "judge" Goreans (why not? The books and the place are offensive to me and some adherents have abused me in its name even when I wasn't there. Why on earth can't I form an opinion about a culture based on my experiences of it and its sources?) and asking me to stop talking about it. That free expression thing cuts both ways and a thread about an OP who experienced significant homophobic abuse as a result of the Gorean culture is a very appropriate place to discuss it.

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28 minutes ago, Amina Sopwith said:

I feel you are both missing my point.

And you missed my point too.

You are right to consider the books very bad. To me, the whole Gor story seems to come from the wet dream of a frustrated teenager. What the hell, even the laws of physics are sexist there (when a man gets to Gor, he gets extra powers due to weaker gravity. Kidnapped women don't have the same laws of physics.) But equally stupid are the stories with superheroes or vampire stories.After the movie "300" presented us Spartans as a gathering of muscle and strength, "true men", a lot of men became Spartans, until they learned that true Spartans were homosexual, spending  lives in boys' camps doing sex with each other. When they got married, the next-to-be wife usually had her hair trimmed, she was dressed to look like a boy because otherwise the "big men" didn't have an erection.

My experience with Gor lasted 1 day.I got there because of a group of friends and I got bored to death listening to their story.Never returned.

Do i consider gor culture a stupid one?YES.

Do i "judge" all Goreans ? NO

My friends did neded a form of escapism . If Gor provided,, good for them. I am still friend with them, even i don't like how they role play. I will delete them from list only if they will act like goreans in other place than Gor

But i judge the OP for going in a story where he had no place. Even as stupids as they are, gorean books have one consistent line. There are no efeminate silk men in Gor. All goreans aspire to be strong and powerfull. There are no gay men there, because all are so desperate for pusies. Is a role play place, act in role play or go home. Do i go to a vegetartian party and blame them for no having meat ? Do i go in a SF sim and ask to be a ancient roman priestess? i don't want to be bullied or abused? I just stay away from a place where abuse is the norm. Some people are "dicks' there not because they are aswell in real life.Is because they are "in character". And some are horrible persons, no matter the place. I am sad to hear  they IM you after leaving. But i don't think they done that because they are goreans, just because they are sh it persons in real life too.You really have my simpaty there. I had same bad experience with a former ex. I got tons of  sh it im's from him, his alts or his friends like half a year  after i dumped him in a middle of a party. But the best part in SL is you can mute idiots. I need far less time to block an avatar than them to create a new one.

But as awlays, i talk too much ( even my therapist noticed that but, fvck, i pay her to do that )

If my post offended you, sorry. Short version:

You have all rights to blame gorean culture and some of the players. And Akane have all rights to defend her friends and here experience there.And i have all rights to go and take my pills :)

Love you all 🥰

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