The REAL reason why LL never fixed your Chat Lag (XMPP)

[Paratrex]

Remember when LL tried to implement XMPP.  Easy, XMPP is encrypted.  Now with the leak about the NSA it all makes sense.  They can't read your chat.  In Snowdens words " encryption works" 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XMPP

 

"Security

XMPP servers can be isolated from the public XMPP network (e.g., on a company intranet), and strong security (via SASL and TLS) has been built into the core XMPP specifications."

[Dillon Levenque]

Huh? There's nothing—zip, nada, zero—in that entire article about encryption. The 'Security' comment you quoted pointed out that XMPP can be locally hosted and thus isolated from the Internet and that it's built to work with SASL (which by the way has nothing whatever to do with encryption) and TSL (which in fact does have to do with encryption). XMPP itself is not 'encrypted'.

I do believe you need to buff up the tin foil a little.

[Paratrex]

TSL isn't encryption. How is that?

Then what hec is this.

 

"Transport Layer Security (TLS) and its predecessor, Secure Sockets Layer (SSL), are cryptographic protocols which are designed to provide communication security over the Internet.[1] They use X.509 certificates and hence asymmetric cryptography to assure the counterparty whom they are talking with, and to exchange a symmetric key. This session key is then used to encrypt data flowing between the parties. This allows for data/message confidentiality, and message authentication codes for message integrity and as a by-product message authentication. Several versions of the protocols are in widespread use in applications such as web browsing, electronic mail, Internet faxing, instant messaging, and voice-over-IP (VoIP). An important property in this context is forward secrecy, so the short term session key cannot be derived from the long term asymmetric secret key.[2]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transport_Layer_Security

 

The key here being  "This session key is then used to encrypt data flowing between the parties. This allows for data/message confidentiality, and message authentication codes for message integrity and as a by-product message authentication."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transport_Layer_Security

So Dillon explain this to me further. I'd would love to hear your knowledge of the subject. 

[Paratrex]

What is this?

"and strong security (via SASL and TLS) has been built into the core XMPP specifications."  Says its built into the XMPP specifications.

So how its it not encrypted? Please explain if a protocol like XMPP has specifications like this then how is it not encrypted?

[Crabclaw Hermit]

Actually there is a tiny mention of encryption.

[Cerise Sorbet]

The TLS encrypts the communications on the wire, but it is cleartext on the chat server. Basically it works like https on the web.

 

[Paratrex]

Ok, but my point to Dillon is encryption. HTTPS is encrypted. So a decentralized XMPP server in one form or another would encrypt local and IM chat would it not?

[Crabclaw Hermit]

Sure, but this doesnt prove your allegation "The REAL reason why"

[Cerise Sorbet]

The chat would still be plaintext to LL, so nothing would change regarding their ability to log or read messages. TLS is only to keep people in between you and the server operator from snooping in.

 

[Paratrex]

Yes my exact point with the first post.  I don't care if LL reads it. I care if the NSA reads it.  The NSA would reside in between you and LL's servers would it not?  I know a lot of the LIBS on this game love privacy invasion and they think nothing of it.  But I value privacy and believe everyone should have the right to it.

[Cerise Sorbet]

Paratrex wrote:

Yes my exact point with the first post.  I don't care if LL reads it. I care if the NSA reads it.  The NSA would reside in between you and LL's server would it not?

It would not. If a govt. agency ordered LL to hand over the logs, that would be the messages that were already forwarded to their chat servers, already in plaintext.

[Perrie Juran]

---

Paratrex wrote:

TSL isn't encryption. How is that?

 

---

Reread what Dillon wrote:  "TSL (which in fact does have to do with encryption)."

[Paratrex]

I understand that.  I'm not talking about handing over logs. Here NSA , here is all our members chat logs. Have fun going through them all.  Wouldn't it be easier for them to target one suspicious person hence snooping in between you and LL's servers? Hence the whole XMPP discussion.

[Cerise Sorbet]

---

Paratrex wrote:

I understand that.  I'm not talking about handing over logs. Here NSA , here is all our members chat logs. Have fun going through them all.  Wouldn't it be easier for them to target one suspicious person hence snooping in between you and LL's servers? Hence the whole XMPP discussion.

---

What is grep? It's not like it's hard to find one person's conversations in those logs, especially when you have some of the world's fastest computers at your disposal.

Think about it, LL does this every day to investigate abuse reports.

 

 

 

[Knowl Paine]

Message interception is a good theory.  It could explain a few things.

 

 

 

 

[Cerise Sorbet]

Actually it's silly, since if people really wanted to encrypt SL chat, they already can on the existing system. Remember when the Emerald viewer had OTR?

 

[Knowl Paine]

What is not silly, is the fact that the NSA was spying on SL.

[Cerise Sorbet]

Yeah, that's pretty silly too, but hey, if they get to play in SL and get paid for it, more power to them.

 

[Knowl Paine]

Thousands of hours in world of war craft building their characters. Going to lunch, getting the best free healthcare, pensions, retirements, social security, 401k's and they are in a private Union. Talk about win win... "We hope terrorism last for ever". We are making Careers out of a Job. The Terrorism Industry.  The agent wants to buy a boat and a motorhome with his proceeds. The biggest concern is "we are going drinking tonight". Politics is a Party!

 

At 5pm, it's quitting time.

[Paratrex]

LL cannot just simply be ordered to hand over someone's chat logs. You must not be from the U.S.  So my point again is the NSA can just intercept without LL even knowing it.  My second point is privacy.  Do you like privacy in the shower, in your bedroom? I bet you do.

[Knowl Paine]

It is my opinion that the NSA is a wing or an arm of government.

Congress can create or dissolve any branch of government including Impeaching the President. 545 people operating out of a District in Columbia, have nothing they don't want.

It could be gone tomorrow, if they wanted it.

 

 

[Cerise Sorbet]

---

Paratrex wrote:

LL cannot just simply be ordered to hand over someone's chat logs. You must not be from the U.S.  So my point again is the NSA can just intercept without LL even knowing it.  My second point is privacy.  Do you like privacy in the shower, in your bedroom? I bet you do.

---

Actually, they can, court orders are frequently sealed. And, an order isn't strictly necessary, a simple request would do. You signed up for that when you joined SL.

For example, you can look at an old copy of the ToS from 2005. This kind of thing has been in there all along.

Linden can (and you authorize Linden to) disclose any information about you to private entities, law enforcement agencies or government officials, as Linden, in its sole discretion, believe necessary or appropriate to investigate or resolve possible problems or inquiries, or as otherwise required by law.

What did you think that meant? =D

 

[IvanTwin Rogers]

Privacity, in a chats, in second life sure!!

 

 

[Perrie Juran]

---

Paratrex wrote:

LL cannot just simply be ordered to hand over someone's chat logs. You must not be from the U.S.  So my point again is the NSA can just intercept without LL even knowing it.  My second point is privacy.  Do you like privacy in the shower, in your bedroom? I bet you do.

---

The NSA can ask LL to "hand over" chat logs.

LL can do one of two things: Freely hand them over or say "get a warrant."

The NSA can go to the 'Secrets Court,' get a warrant and then under the cover of 'National Security' prohibit LL from ever saying anything beyond yes we were asked for logs.

As an American I think this sucks.

I've let my Representatives know what I think.

LL may or may not be freely cooperating with the NSA.

So could your next door neighbor.

I make no secrets about the fact I am weird, that I am a privacy advocate, that I disagree vehemently with Gov't intrusion into how many times a day I **bleep** and that I fear being suffocated.  I also think that Ted Nugent was one of the greatest rock guitarists ever and I've always had a crush on Tahnee Welsh.

So I've got a choice.  I can crawl in a cave and quit life or I can say screw the Gov't and continue to live my life as I fool well please.

Will you next accuse the FS team of conspiring with the NSA and claim that is the reason they haven't reintroduced OTR in their viewer?

LL is just this tiny little player on the Internet.  Big enough to get some attention from the Gov't.  But still a tiny little player.

 

[Paratrex]

Then if you don't have any privacy on this game with the NSA then why the heck do you play the stupid thing unless your making money off of it?  I bet you have Facebook and Twitter too. Let me guess you use Skype which is about as open as it gets. Let me guess also that you use Google to search. 

There are many many ways to protect yourself on the Internet. Yes, it's a lot of work but people don't respect their own privacy which goes way over my head.

Maybe this will help you.

http://tavaana.org/sites/default/files/security_in_a_box.pdf