OLD BUSINESS OWNERS (NOT VERY NICE )

[freelancersforb]

So i've been in SL since 2008. I've had a couple of businesses and each time have been greeted kindly by the residents but the business owners, the older ones have been extremly rude. Which does not make since to me. They should be the ones giving advice, being friendly not rude! Old business owners in SL please be nicer that same person you were rude to could be your next customer. 

[KarenMichelle Lane]

To be sure, there are some very "Jaded" old timers out in SL. They suffer noobs and less experienced citizens poorly. Unfortunately, the cure is to just take 2 asprins and to avoid them when encountered. If they own a business then C'est la Vie.

[Stacey Zirgar]

:matte-motes-sarcasm: Hi5

[freelancersforb]

Hi Karen, I do agree with the noobs that are less experienced as I was when I first joined SL and you. Everyone starts off as a noobie. I just feel old business owners need to be nicer not to the noobies that act poorly which is true but to the ones that come in looking to start a business. 

 

Thanks for your post Karen

[Amethyst Jetaime]

I agree anyone in business should be polite to customers and potential customers.  But i think that gross generalizations such as "old business owners are rude' are also rude,.  I have encountered just as many younger business owners that are rude as well as many old business owners that are nice. 

As far as giving advice, you are welcome to ask for advice and it is great if an experienced business owner is willing to give it to you, but no one is obligated to do that and it doesn't make them rude if they decline.  You are asking them for a favor after all and their time on SL may be limited. 

[Phil Deakins]

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freelancersforb wrote:

Hi Karen, I do agree with the noobs that are less experienced as I was when I first joined SL and you. Everyone starts off as a noobie. I just feel old business owners need to be nicer not to the noobies that act poorly which is true

but to the ones that come in looking to start a business. 

---

What you seem to be saying is that you wanted help from one or more business owners and you didn't get it. C'est la vie. None of us can get others to help if they don't want to. What I'm curious about is (a) why you're talking about old business owners and (b) what happened that prompted you to start this thread?

Apart from that, you're original post is flawed - it's a fallacy. What you seem to have done is tried to get help from a person who is a business owner and who has been in SL a long time. It seems that the person was rude to you so you decided that people who are business owners and who have been in SL a long time are rude. That's a fallacy. Perhaps you'd like to correct your original post and its title.

[freelancersforb]

Hello Amethyst , I do not mean to gernalize. Sorry for that,  but most business owners that have been in SL for years that I have come in contact with have been rude. I do agree with the advice and time frame of business owners, I just want to make the SL business owners that have been here for years to be nicer. 

Thanks for your post

[freelancersforb]

Not correct, I have been in SL since 2008, I would not post this for one business owner. It was muliple business owners that I came in contact with over the years. I posted this to make business owners aware that some of them are rude and need to be nicer. 

 

Thanks for your post:)

[Dresden Ceriano]

The question I've got is in regards to your perception of exactly what constitutes being rude.  Have these merchants actually been rude to you or are you just expecting too much from them and have simply perceived not having had your expectations met, as rudeness on their part?

...Dres

[Phil Deakins]

Alright, it's several old business owners, but you were asking them for help to set up a business. If you weren't, then the post I quoted doesn't make any sense. So...

C'est la vie about not getting help from people you ask. And your original post is still a fallacy because, on the strength of more than one old business owner being rude to you when you asked for help, you've decided that old business owners are rude, and that's a fallacy.

I wonder how many old business owners you've come across since 2008 who haven't been rude to you. The vast majority I would guess 

 

[GothGirl Demonia]

I have met some very disrespectful business/store owners in Second Life during my time, mostly the ones that were running Red Zone, CDS, and other systems that spy on residents (illegally) I pretty much learned to give them the birdy without saying anything they know that what they are doing is Wrong,  I as a customer will never shop with them for their disrespectful mouths, and next time I see some griefer giving away their products illegally for Free, I have a hud in SL which stores every merchants name that is a merchant who has been disresepectful and if your name is on that list I personally wont even bother going to Help + Abuse Report.

I have also met some respectful merchants over the years in Second Life, some very kind people who didn't have to help with some issues but did because they were respectful, these are the type of people I will always support and try to help in SL when I see people griefing them, or doing things to them, they also don't use that Red Zone spyware stuff either.

For the most part over the years since 2009 to the end of 2012 when I actively played before having my entire inventory deleted by a hacker almost every merchant I knew in SL were always friendly, and nice, there were only a select few people and places I know that were ever disrespectful in SL most Store Owners themselves were great, but the biggest problem I found in SL were those RP sim owners supporting Griefers and they still do to this day because I still keep tabs on eerything I can.

When it comes down to it Merchants are humans too, and some merchants do not like to be bothered about questions, or things like starting a business, although they should be respectful about it not send hateful messages to another person, and sometimes people have a bad day too it depends on a lot about how you ask them, and if you read the note-card that comes with your product.

Although Second Life for me is pretty much dead now and no one cares as much to do as much griefing as they usually do, and with the security that LL offers I choose not to really play SL anymore but still do remember the good times with all the places and people that no longer play Second Life, mainly people who have moved on to other games.

[freelancersforb]

I agree, thanks so much for your post

[freelancersforb]

I would like to thank everyone for their post and opinions, my last word is to all business owners new or old please be nicer. You do have to teach or give advice to anyone, just be nicer, thanks

[Pamela Galli]

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freelancersforb wrote:

I would like to thank everyone for their post and opinions, my last word is to all business owners new or old please be nicer. You do have to teach or give advice to anyone, just be nicer, thanks

---

So what you are saying is that all business owners, old or new, are lacking in "niceness".

Nice.

 

BTW, I do not feel I have a greater obligation to give advice to anyone just because I have a business; I do it as a courtesy. However, my time in SL is too valuable to spend too much time typing advice, so I have made many help notecards I give out to individuals as well as to my group,  as well as links to Help Pages I have made. 

[Canoro Philipp]

how nice should business owners be?

they don't have to offer demos, they don't have to answer quickly, they don't have to help people beyond what is written in the instructions notecard, if they are required for the product to work, and they don't have to help other business.

the minimum they should give is professionalism if they want their business to grow. a refusal for help should be given in a polite manner, and the help for users that don't understand the product, if they are not willing to provide it, should be denied in a polite manner, asking them to look in the notecards for any doubt they have.

they can have their personal opinion about a customer, but they need to realize that the interaction is strictly business, an exchange of their product for the lindens requested. a professional separates its personal view from its professional.

in the personal level, they have the right to dislike and like anyone, and treat them accordingly.

 

[Dillon Levenque]

I've been reading the replies and there seems to be a difference of opinion as to the natuire of your complaint.

Some of the replies are from people who feel you have been treated rudely as a customer of some businesses owned by 'oldbies' and should have been given better service. Those people  have advised you to shop elsewhere, and I do believe that is the right idea.

Some of the replies are from people who feel you have been asking established businesses for advice on how to run your own for-profit business in Sl— that you're asking for advice on how to compete with them for money.

So which is it? Help us all out. Is your issue with businesses who don't treat new customers well, or with businesses who don't treat new competitors well? 

[Stacey Zirgar]

amen!

 

[Amethyst Jetaime]

First you start with a gross generalization that old business owners are rude, then it was most, then it was some... and finally that all business owners new and old should not be rude.  Your story changed as your statements were called into question.

I was curious about what kind of business you are in and was surprised that it was a company that apparently offers assistants to business owners.  You also have a blog and its first post is on this same topic and your last post was about your post here.

I will  give you some advice.  Don't start  your business by insulting a whole group of your potential clients on your blog and in forum posts like this.  Then further don't insult those that answered your post calling into question the fallacies of your OP on your blog.

Apparently you don't have enough courage to say what you said on your blog to the people you further insulted here, many of which are business owners.  I am guessing the whole point of this was to troll the forum for more blog material.  I am not impressed nor do I have much respect for you now or confidence that your business will be successful.  .

[Tari Landar]

We often hear "it's not what you say, but how you say it", which does ring quite true for many things. However sometimes, it truly is what you say that matters the most.

You got the responses you did from this post, not because the readers cannot read and comprehend, or because everyone who responded in a way you didn't like are all merchants, but because your OP is about as clear as mud. It isn't until further in the thread that you actually explain, and even retract part of your statements.

Now, if your goal was to say "I'd really like it if people, in general, were nicer to one another", you'd have gotten a much different response. However, that's not what you said. In fact, not even close. You DID insult a rather large group of people with a very large brush. I'm pretty sure most residents who are also business owners and have been for a long time, won't be offended. In fact, I'm pretty sure most people in general wouldn't be offended. That would probably be, because most people honestly don't care about the opinion of one person. Especially one person who has now not only posted once to insult, but also made two separate blog posts, about the exact same thing, still insulting people. Even after explaining in this thread. On a personal note-that's a very poor attitude you have there, I am not surprised you've run into rude people.

Of course you're entitled to your opinion, we all are. Perhaps you've had a bad experience or two that has soured your opinion as well. I honestly believe you fall into the minority on that one though. No one can, or should even try to, change your mind. You're basing your opinion on your experience(s), and I can respect that, even if I disagree or have had a completely different experience.

My experience is that people who are much newer to sl-and I do not include alt accounts here, but people who are actually new to sl, have been far more rude than the very few rude merchants(long time or otherwise) I have run into. I first started sl in 2004-but eventually got bored, and left. I came back permanently in 2008, and have been a merchant ever since. I am not saying my experience or longevity in sl has any sort of bearing on whether I am right/wrong, or whether you are, either. I am simply using it as a point to show I have run into a LOT of people over the years, lol. Most people in sl, are actually quite nice. Even those who seem rough around the edges. Few people are actually rude-at least not consistently. Even fewer of those are merchants. I HAVE run into rude people, but the "have a very young sl age" is a much larger portion of that grouping than the "have an older sl age" portion. I don't think how long people have been in sl has much bearing. That's just anecdotal. Just as your experience is anecdotal. There is no proper blanket statement that, I believe, ought to apply. Sl age is irrelevant, in other words, just as being a merchant or not, is irrelevant. I run into more "rude" people, well rude responses anyway, on the forums than I ever have in sl, lol. but I don't consider all of those people, the ones who made the responses, actually rude people. I may not like the response, but a response doesn't quite make a person, for me anyway.

How others respond to you can be influenced by how you respond to them. If you're rude, condescending, demanding, etc... you're not likely to be met with sweetness and joy. It's just not a reasonable expectation. Now I don't know if you were, or are, of course, but if it applies, I'd change that right quick, if you intend to be a business owner anyway. Your advice to be nicer to one another, is very sound. The advice that business owners, in general, ought to be a bit more patient, understanding and generally kind, is also sound. However, you're already going against that advice of yours by being hostile towards other people. As someone asking other people to be nice, one ought to be nice themselves. Practice what you preech and all that. When/if you can't, don't be surprised when you find like minds, or like attitudes.

Me, i'm nice, well usually. I have my days like anyone else. If my buttons are pressed, you might just see a not so nice response from me too. That can happen for any number of reasons, for most people. A bad day, not feeling well, fed up, being frustrated with someone, being met head-on with a terrible attitude, etc.. Those can all push someone to be "rude", though "rude" is pretty subjective. My idea of rude, and yours, probably differ greatly. Maybe what you're feeling is rude, the other person wasn't intending to be so. Maybe not, too. But you can't really know for certain.

TLDR;  Being nice as often as possible is a good idea, for all people-merchant or not. When you can't be nice, it's best to simply avoid situations where you'd be expected to. If you want others to be nice, you should also project that same attitude. If you can't(for whatever reason), do not be surprised if others respond in kind.

[Ceka Cianci]

I don't really like doing the  "i've been in sl this long" thing because it can come off as sounding like coming from self-entitlement..but timeline for info is different hehehe

but being in SL since 2006 (this is for timeline use only not self entitelment use hehehe) and really never meeting any mean content creators in my encounters when dealing with them personally..

i have to disagree with the science on this.. just about every experience i've had with a business owner/content creator that i have met and done business with has been a good one..

i can't speak for other people and their dealings..just mine and the ones i've been in partial control of..

 

a lot of things are in the approach..outside observations of others doing business with each other..

well that's really non of my business ..:smileywink:

 

 

[Phil Deakins]

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freelancersforb wrote:

I would like to thank everyone for their post and opinions,

my last word is to all business owners new or old please be nicer

. You do have to teach or give advice to anyone, just be nicer, thanks

---

It looks like you are opting out of this thread now, presumably because you don't want to come clean about what actually happened that caused you to start the thread. Ok. But even your parting statement was flawed. You've changed from "old business owners" to "business owners new or old", so you do seem to have learned something, but you still assume that all business owners are lacking in niceness, and that's wrong. For instance, I've had my business since very early in 2007, so I qualify as both an "old business owner" and in the group of "business owners new or old", and I'm not rude to people. I'm nice to them. I have no doubt that most business owners are exactly the same.

I don't know what happened that caused you to start this thread, and you seem reluctant to tell us, so I'll have to guess that some business owners didn't give you what you wanted and, in a self-centred sort of way, you saw it as rudeness. I don't know, of course, but your reluctance to tell us does seem to indicate that it's something you'd be embarrassed to share beyond saying that you, or even someone you know, sought help in starting or running a business, and didn't get it.

[Phil Deakins]

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Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

First you start with a gross generalization that old business owners are rude, then it was most, then it was some... and finally that all business owners new and old should not be rude.  Your story changed as your statements were called into question.

I was curious about what kind of business you are in and was surprised that it was a company that apparently offers assistants to

business owners

.  You also have a blog and its first post is on this same topic and your last post was about your post here.

I will  give you some advice.  Don't start  your business by insulting a whole group of your potential clients on your blog and in forum posts like this.  Then further don't insult those that answered your post calling into question the fallacies of your OP on your blog.

Apparently you don't have enough courage to say what you said on your blog to the people you further insulted here, many of which are business owners.  I am guessing the whole point of this was to troll the forum for more blog material.  I am not impressed nor do I have much respect for you now or confidence that your business will be successful.  .

---

Thank you for the info about her blog. I had a look and saw that she just started it yesterday (29th) - the same day she started this thread. She seems to be a person who is trying to get herself noticed, and scraping around for things that are worthwhile writing. She's also a person who needs to learn to check her blog posts before she posts them. If Pep saw it, he'd think all his Christmases had come at once lol.

[Ceka Cianci]

 

So in actuality she is this guy that goes around helping people with their business..

 

like this guy does?

 

[Phil Deakins]

hehe. That guy is just plain vulgar and doesn't belong anywhere near TV.

[Dresden Ceriano]

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Phil Deakins wrote:

If Pep saw it, he'd think all his Christmases had come at once lol.

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If posts made by irrational, overblown windbags, who have a hard time expressing themselves in a coherent fashion, are what Pep would consider Christmas, he must think it's Christmas every day.

...Dres