Bitcoin Store Clerks

[stevenback777]

Hi. I'm looking to start a new store to sell Bitcoins for Linden. This is a fresh start project of mine. RIght now, I have no actual storefront, employees, or customers. 

I'm looking for some decent land with traffic right now. I am also building my virtual storefront in my home. I want this to be up and running as soon as possible, but I know it will not be an overnight process.

Mesage me if you want to chat in my sl home. My name is loganslaplocke (stevenback777).

 

I am looking for the following positions: 

1. Someone to help design the store from the ground up. I don't relly need anything too fancy, but I want to attract people who are passing by. 

2. Sales reps who will go and advertise the service. The key is to get people in the store, especially if they are already familiar with bitcoin. 

3. A clerk who can monitor the inventory and email me when the stock is running low. Also needs to be familiar with bitcoin so they can answer questions customers may have. This person can also advertise as a sales rep. 

4. If you own bitcoins you would like to sell for Linden, let me know. Not only will I sell my own, but I will run a cosignment for those who want to sell. 

 

All terms are subject to negotiation and pay will vary depending on what role you play in this operation. 

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UPDATE!!!

I have received a response from Linden Labs. They stated: "Selling Bitcoins in Second Life is a violation of the Terms of Service."

 

Due to this, I will not be attempting this idea. Thank you for all who have read this post. And a special Thank You to Innula Zenovka for bringing this to my attention. 

 

[Innula Zenovka]

I am not certain, but your plan -- to buy L$ for Bitcoins (which the person who sells you L$ can then exchange for US$, GB£, € or whatever)-- sounds to me as if it will run into LL's Terms of Service 4.6, which were recently changed to ban the buying and selling of L$ except via Linden Lab and their authorised resellers.    While LL do appoint people as resellers to sell L$, they retain a monopoly on buying them.

So I would first ask LL about your scheme and whether they're prepared to allow it.   I think the answer will be on the lines of "No way" but it's better to find that out now rather than when they start returning terminals, confiscating L$ and banning accounts.

[stevenback777]

Thank you for bringing this up. I just sent an email asking whether it will violate the T&C of the Linden Dollar. If they will not allow such a store, I will abandon the idea unless they will allow some kind of exception. I didn't think of this when I came up with the idea. 

[Griffin Ceawlin]

As Innula stated, not even Authorized Resellers are permitted to purchase L$s from users. It's highly unlikely that LL would make an exception, especially where another virtual currency that is ripe for use in money-laundering is concerned.

[Eye Scribe]

If and when you get a reply from LL it would be great if you could let the world know what they said by posting the reply here. I would be happy to spread the word on my blog.

[Medhue Simoni]

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stevenback777 wrote:

Thank you for bringing this up. I just sent an email asking whether it will violate the T&C of the Linden Dollar. If they will not allow such a store, I will abandon the idea unless they will allow some kind of exception. I didn't think of this when I came up with the idea. 

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Are you sure you explained the business properly, and that LL understood exactly what you wanted to do? I don't really see how selling Bitcoins in SL could be against the TOS. This is the same thing as selling a PDF file, or a 3D model. Now that I think of it tho, none of LL's policy makes much sense. Technically, any business that sells a real world commodity would be against the TOS, if selling Bitcoins in SL is. This is because any1 could take that real world commodity and sells it for dollars or euros or whatever.

[Perrie Juran]

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Medhue Simoni wrote:

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stevenback777 wrote:

Thank you for bringing this up. I just sent an email asking whether it will violate the T&C of the Linden Dollar. If they will not allow such a store, I will abandon the idea unless they will allow some kind of exception. I didn't think of this when I came up with the idea. 

---

Are you sure you explained the business properly, and that LL understood exactly what you wanted to do? I don't really see how selling Bitcoins in SL could be against the TOS. This is the same thing as selling a PDF file, or a 3D model. Now that I think of it tho, none of LL's policy makes much sense. Technically, any business that sells a real world commodity would be against the TOS, if selling Bitcoins in SL is. This is because any1 could take that real world commodity and sells it for dollars or euros or whatever.

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The problem may be that Bitcoins are considered currency.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitcoin#United_States

So in this case we are not talking about purchasing goods and/or services.

[Innula Zenovka]

Yes.   The important question is how the relevant regulatory authorities regard Bitcoins, and the US regulators certainly do regard them as a form of currency to which the relevant regulations, and reporting requirements,  on money laundering and money transfer services apply.   

It also occurs to me that, if LL were to agree to the plan, the OP would need to investigate how the regulatory regime in his or her own country would apply to this business (if it does at all).   

[Perrie Juran]

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Innula Zenovka wrote:

Yes.   The important question is how the relevant regulatory authorities regard Bitcoins, and the US regulators certainly do regard them as a form of currency to which the relevant regulations, and reporting requirements,  on money laundering and money transfer services apply.   

It also occurs to me that, if LL were to agree to the plan, the OP would need to investigate how the regulatory regime in his or her own country would apply to this business (if it does at all).   

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Also, right now the exchange rate is around 1 Bitcoin for $720.00 US.

That would be about $175,000L  

[Medhue Simoni]

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Perrie Juran wrote:

---

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The problem may be that Bitcoins are considered currency.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitcoin#United_States

So in this case we are not talking about purchasing goods and/or services.

---

Well, currency can be anything, and has been over the many centuries. Gold is currency, if any1 knows anything about money. So is silver. These were the only 2 things the Constitution allowed for, despite the fact that we use fiat paper now. Tabacco was also used as currency at 1 time, as were sea shells. The bottom line is that they are all commodities, just like anything else you would buy.

Years ago, I advised LL to turn Lindens into a digital currency that could be used outside of SL. Imagine if they had done that. I just think it is sad that LL is limiting SL like they are. I own bitcoins. My website also accepts bitcoins. You don't have to use or buy a whole bitcoin. They can be broken up into fractions of bitcoins, even to something like .000001 bitcoins. I'd definitely buy more bitcoins if I could do it with extra Lindens. Currently, I'm just accepting them thru my website, for 3d products.

It kind of shocks me that LL doesn't accept bitcoins. They would avoid a decent chunk of fees that are associated with using dollars or euros or whatever. It's not hard to set up. It almost laughable that they are a digital world and don't accept bitcoins yet. They could also replace lindens with bitcoins, and avoid all the cost of having their own. It really would be simple to set up.

[Innula Zenovka]

Quite possibly so, but the fact of the matter is that the US applies a set of restrictions and reporting requirements to people trading in bitcoins that they don't apply to people trading in sea shells.  

This may be for much the same reason you are prepared to accept payment in bitcoins via your website but don't, as far as I know, accept payment in seashells.

[Eye Scribe]

i wonder what LL position would be about peopple meeting in SL and in a private chat they agree to exchange L$ and bitcoin.

[Medhue Simoni]

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Innula Zenovka wrote:

Quite possibly so, but the fact of the matter is that the US applies a set of restrictions and reporting requirements to people trading in bitcoins that they don't apply to people trading in sea shells.  

This may be for much the same reason you are prepared to accept payment in bitcoins via your website but don't, as far as I know, accept payment in seashells.

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I'd accept seashells, as long as governments don't control them. That is really the appeal of bitcoins. The governments can't inflate away their value, like they are doing with dollars, euro, yen, and all the others. Not only do governments over tax every1, but they steal money from every1 by printing more and more of the currency, hurting the poor the most. I will accept gold and give people half off the price of the product. Just contact me if you want that deal, or something similar like silver. I'd accept bacon too, and with no restrictions. lol

[Medhue Simoni]

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Eye Scribe wrote:

i wonder what LL position would be about peopple meeting in SL and in a private chat they agree to exchange L$ and bitcoin.

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Technically, they would never know, so their opinion is mute. I think they seriously would only care when you are talking a large volume of sales.

[Perrie Juran]

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Medhue Simoni wrote:

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Innula Zenovka wrote:

Quite possibly so, but the fact of the matter is that the US applies a set of restrictions and reporting requirements to people trading in bitcoins that they don't apply to people trading in sea shells.  

This may be for much the same reason you are prepared to accept payment in bitcoins via your website but don't, as far as I know, accept payment in seashells.

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I'd accept seashells, as long as governments don't control them. That is really the appeal of bitcoins. The governments can't inflate away their value, like they are doing with dollars, euro, yen, and all the others. Not only do governments over tax every1, but they steal money from every1 by printing more and more of the currency, hurting the poor the most. I will accept gold and give people half off the price of the product. Just contact me if you want that deal, or something similar like silver. I'd accept bacon too, and with no restrictions. lol

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That sadly is the problem.  The moment we started using seashells they'd get involved.  And actually though it might be hard for them to enforce, the trading of goods and/or services for goods and/or services in RL is regulated and taxable. 

<-----is not fond of government either.

[Medhue Simoni]

Here is my bitcoin address, just in case any1 wants to donate some bitcoins to me. lol

[stevenback777]

Thank you again for your helpful comment. Linden Labs did state it is a violation of the T&C. 

[Eye Scribe]

im a little confused. if a merchant offers animations for sale. Are they buying the persons linden dollars? Now substitute animations for bitcoin. I read the TOS and to be honest I saw a squirl and chased after it about half way.

Would love your thoughts.

[Griffin Ceawlin]

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Eye Scribe wrote:

if a merchant offers animations for sale. Are they buying the persons linden dollars?

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No. They're selling product.

LL doesn't want anyone, including Authorized Resellers, providing "cash, currency, or other monetary equivalent or value, in exchange for Linden Dollars, regardless of the method or channel."

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I read the TOS and to be honest I saw a squirl and chased after it about half way.

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That explains a lot.

 

 

[Innula Zenovka]

One important difference between animations and bitcoins is that animations aren't, at least not generally, used as a negotiable currency or readily convertible into one.    They are, of course, primarily used as components in SL goods, not as cash, and if I want to turn my animations into US$, I have to find a buyer in SL and then find a way of arranging payment.

In contrast, bitcoins have no other purpose than being negotiable instruments of some sort (they're not even collectible in the way rare coins and banknotes are), and  if I want to turn my bitcoins into US$, I simply go to my bitcoin account page and click a button.

[Eye Scribe]

I ask the question because in 4.7 of the TOS it states you cant BUY lindens from anyone else but them. (/me sticks tounge out at Griffin)

Im not going to go down that rabbit hole when it comes to the differences between animations and bitcoin.

BUT hmmm... How about the sale of ART that happens to have a QR code on it. I am sure i could come up with a great art peace featuring you with a qr code slapped on your butt. Yes my intent is to buck the system but the system is bucked.

What im trying to find is a loop hole. but as much for Linden Labs as for my self. I think they have regulatory concerns with regards to bitcoin that they are afraid of and if that fear can be removed...

Still loving your thoughts.

P.S whats YOUR bitcoin address?

[Griffin Ceawlin]

[Eye Scribe]

[Fullperm Alpha]

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UPDATE!!!

I have received a response from Linden Labs. They stated: "

Selling Bitcoins in Second Life is a violation of the Terms of Service."

 

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Selling Bitcoins in Second Life is maybe a violation of the TOS, but ...

 

You can ACCEPT Bitcoins for every good you sell in Secondlife. I know at least 3 Landlords which are accepting Paypal / Euro (They hold together over 500Sims). Its implemented in ZTX Rental System.

 

So its NO problem to accept Bitcoin in Secondlife and NO violation of the TOS. You can even integrate Bitcoin payment in a vendor and advertise with it

 

The only thing you are not allowed to do in Secondlife is changing Bitcoin for Lindendollar.

 

BTW: This is what Paypal CEO David Marcus is saying to Bitcoins (and the reaction from Ebay as Paypal's Mother):

http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-57617502-93/ebay-to-allow-bitcoin-sales-in-virtual-currency-category/