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Frost Lexico

Defrauded on marketplace. Refund possible?

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    I just recently purchased an avatar through the marketplace. It has nice and detailed descriptions and tons of positive reviews. The screenshots of the avatar look amazing, but it costs more than twice the normal avatar does (2000 linden as opposed to the usual aproximate 800, give or take a few hundred). Normally that'd be a violation due to price inflation, but I decided to shrug it off this time. There was one bad review, but I figured that this guy must have been that one dude who complains about everything considering the other 3 pages of 4 and 5 star reviews, so I went and spent the money for the product and popped it open in SL.

   What I found made most freebies look like the Sistine Chapel: The provided AO is slapped together and extremely robotic, kind of like C3PO from Star Wars. One of the major features advertised is incompatible with the majority of locations because it requires rezzing rights to use (the product description does not mention this).

   I am 100% convinced that the retailer has been using alternate accounts or friends or something in order to inflate his/her reviews, because I have yet to find a single resident in game who was not disgusted by the lack of quality in this avatar, nevermind the fact that it has a ridiculously inflated price tag. In fact, that one single review I mentioned earlier that scoffed at this product turned out to be correct about everything, and so this is why I feel that there is some anti-trust going on. I've already reported it for price inflation (heck, look at all the furry avatars selling for 600 to 1000 linden), but I don't think that will be getting my 2 grand back.

   Last, but certainly not least, I did some digging around on the retailer and what I found is that similiar patterns are seen on other products of theirs: low quality item and overpriced, high praise feedback.

   So my question is this: What can I do to get my money back after being scammed here? If it was just pocket change then I wouldn't care, but in my currency this amounts to a whopping 8 bucks (which is supposed to go a longish way in SL).

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Unless the merchant is willing to refund your money, there is nothing you can do.  LL will not get involved.

You can leave bad review, flag it as not as advertised, etc.  but none of that will get your money back.

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Unfortunately the price doesn't always equate with quality. There also aren't any rules about inflated prices, unless that merchant has different prices for their avs inworld and on marketplace. There are no rules saying avatars must cost X amount or lower. Or anything for that matter. So there is nothing to report in that area of concern. People are free to price at whatever they want. I have seen plenty of avs that cost 1.5k and over, though. There are a lot of things I personally wouldn't buy, both because of quality and because of price, but plenty of others would and do buy them. Thankfully we don't get to determine what things cost based on whether or not we like it. That would be a very unfair system, because quality and value are not the same to everyone. Some people think dropping 2-5k on shoes is a good idea-I don't agree with them, lol(just an example). That's where different tastes and ideals comes into play. Even if you, and plenty of others, think something is "crap"(and it may very well be that I agree with you, lol) We just pick and choose what we want to buy, and hope we're not disappointed. I have bought things that, after the fact, have come to realize were priced above what I personally would price(after seeing their quality, or lack of). It sucks, and it sucks more when it's not just a small bit of change. But there's not much we can do about it. Reporting something for having an "inflated price" is pointless, though.

It may be that the person is using, or has used alts or friends to get the reviews they have. It may also be likely, they didn't. I know you can't link the product to here, but if it's an older item, there may have been a time when it actually was more popular. Even if it is "crap". At one time, maybe it wasn't. Or to some people, maybe it's not. There's not a whole lot of ways to tell. Some people do use alts or friends to beef up the review system. That's probably why many don't pay the review system a whole lot of mind, and take what they DO get from the review system, with a grain of salt. It's not reliable in the least(and hasn't been since MP came to be). I know someone who relists a certain item anytime someone leaves an even partially negative review. He's been reported each and every time, because that actually IS a violation. But he still does it, has been doing it for over a year, and enough people like the product that he can still get good reviews and people DO use the product(even though I think it's total crap, personally, and I don't believe 90% of the good reviews I see for it). Some people do try their best to manipulate the review system. A huge part of why it's entirely unreliable.

LL won't get involved in it. You can try, but it's highly, highly unlikely they'll give you any response other than the "LL doesn't get involved in resident to resident disputes" canned response. Assuming you get a response at all, that is.

I know none of that will help you recover your money spent-there isn't anything anyone can do that will. But if it helps even slightly, you're not the first person who has found, after the fact, they've indeed overpaid for something. We do it in rl too. I've paid even larger amounts for things just to get the item and find it utterly useless. I absolutely hate when that happens. But, what can ya do? Pleading your case with the merchant may or may not garner you any results. The same goes for leaving feedback. Although I DO recommend leaving a review. Just keep it to the facts, and make sure that you don't violate any guidelines while leaving your feedback. I know that probably sounds unfair since you believe they've broken guidelines, but that's also a good way to get your feedback removed, and you don't want that.

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Frost Lexico wrote:

it costs more than twice the normal avatar does (2000 linden as opposed to the usual aproximate 800, give or take a few hundred). Normally that'd be a violation due to price inflation

I will point out here that what you have just said is incorrect.

Price inflation in terms of being a Marketplace Listing Violation explicitly refers to the following:-

Anti-Competitive or Abusive Behavior. Examples include, but are not limited to:

  • inflating prices on the SL Marketplace, in comparison to in-world or other e-commerce sites

(from https://marketplace.secondlife.com/listing_guidelines)

"Inflated price" as a listing violation has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that it's more expensive than other similar items, or that it's just seriously high priced, or that it's not a price you'd want to pay!

I can consider myself an expert in this area, having a poseball for sale for L$1,000,000 which has been flagged several times because of people who cannot grasp the difference between a "high price" and "inflated listing violation".  My listing now carries the apology from LL for incorrectly de-listing it, the last time someone tried to flag it for this.

Anyway, that said, Marketplace purchases are entirely "Caveat Emptor" and in that respect, LL will not intervene, they are very poor at intervening even when the delivered item is an empty box that has nothing to do with the description or picture.

You've just bought a bad product, your recourse is to challenge the creator and optionally leave a review but "inflated price" is nowhere in the ballpark, price you paid has nothing to do with anything here i'm afraid.

Oh and i'm sorry that you've had a negative experience on Marketplace, it doesn't do anyone any good when such things happen and just creates a vehicle for mistrust for reputable merchants.

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youhave aposeball for HOW much lol? You are crazy, that is funny BUT....wait, now I want to see it and have the one question everyone must be asking.....

DID IT SELL? Even once? lol.

I am not saying it is not worth it, I have never seen it. But it does make me laugh, because poses are usually like 50L or so, rarely more than a hundred or two lol.

Also, it is funny because of the response and sounds like a fun item to have listed, if you like the responses and such.

It is to easy, but if there was a Virtual World Book or Records it might be in there lol.

Now I am thinking of doing something like this myself. Making the most detailed, most parts, highest impact, most animated, most soundeded, highest textures sized item in my industry! Obvious appointments spring to mind, and it would take me a while but I could battle through the scripting, God willing because I have a lot of harrassment with the all day voices on top of other things that effect average persons life who has a hard time investing in working for practically nothing lol.

Wow, I am off topic now.

So, for the OP. Refunds are not usually given, I can imagine you feel upset and I to have felt that. I accidentally, no joke, clicked the wrong button and bought something. It took a long time for me to get the 500L dollars gone, I ended up turning up to the event to try and at least get something out of my money.....they had FREE models to drive for visitors AND, no joke....the free models where easier and just as fast! I could logo up that one top fueler, but the serious funny part was that even though I came in like third and could have maybe won my money back, advertised my company on the one I bought for a few blog pics and to car fans at that race.....they closed!!! It was almost useless for any other racing, it was really bad at steering, I put that effort into my cars when I made them. I learned to modify the scripting before getting sculpting down, driving the darn things was hard for me with lag and such and that car was really bad at steering. Ironically, I used the same script and it's really fast turning was great for other types of racing, I still modifed the script and made it faster and someone who used that bike was winning races with it instead of being second. I offered test drives for it, and that test drive and low price sold it to her. She won, more bought it to try thier hand at it. She said the last race it was her and another guy behind her that took first and second, both on the bike I made. But hardly anyone else was using it, it is mostly in the users PC and the vehicle only provides an edge and sometimes only at a few tracks. Ironically, she won on an oval and the bike was set for mostly twisting road tracks!

But, yeah. Funny stuff, an expert at high priced listings! I had to ask, unless you charge $10000000L for constultancy and I must provide a full 10 sims for your presentation, and maybe even do strange things after a long flight to see you? Wow...yikes, but you seem helpful here in the forum....so, yeah....I had to ask, right lol.

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It is not against TOS to have high prices. Nothing for sale in SL is necessary - you do not actaully "need" anything here. It is also not against TOS to have poor quality items - if that were true nobody would ever get started created and selling.

All you can do really is write a review that the item is not as described, and tell your friends. You can request a refund from the merchant, but I wouldnt hold my breath.

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Poenald Palen wrote:

youhave aposeball for HOW much lol? You are crazy, that is funny BUT....wait, now I want to see it and have the one question everyone must be asking.....

DID IT SELL? Even once? lol.


27... in one day.

That was the subject of a fraud investigation, pretty obvious to me and never in any doubt that LL would take it all back.  (I followed up with a support request that they delete MY valuable products from the purchasers inventory since I received no revenue!)  LL also took back too much L$, the subject of another ticket.

Anyway, it was put up as a product that does exactly what it says it will do but with the intention of testing a search theory that I had.  One where high priced listings are favoured over others first for search results.  At the time, when searching using just the acronym "RLV", the first few pages were all of items in the price range typically L$1000 to $3000.  Then came 10 pages of L$0 followed by the rest of the regular products.

Looking at the "most relevant" it certainly didn't seem as though the ones returned were the most popular, just higher price.  Definitely, 10 pages of freebies weren't relevant at all!

So, my little test, I was curious as to whether the L$1,000,000 would instantly be returned as first item under relevance.  As it turns out, I suspect I over priced and that the search returns products in a typical range, not just the highest (which would make sense).  However, after selling 27 on one day, it did make it to the top of overall Marketplace search "most popular" which was quite funny.

(it's not the most expensive item on MP either)

:matte-motes-delicious:

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I fell for the same thing with the reviews. There must have been over 50 five star reviews for an AO. I noticed some bad reviews but figured heck theres so many giving glowing reviews it can't that bad.

Well it was, it was awful. Most of the animations were poses. The only thing i could think was this guy has a LOT of alts.

I now read the low ratings and see if their complaint sounds reasonable.

Another time, i was looking at someones store on MP and was kinda struck that EVERY  item had 5 or 6 reviews and all five star reviews. 

EVERY item was reviewed....totally unbelievable....so i was just checking out these glowing reviews and noticed they're all made by the same people lol.... AND!! the person got lazy writing the reviews and was copying and pasting same short text ie: "nicely done" "superb product"

So yeah reviews are gamed, but you can kinda tell. I usualy avoid big ticket items unless i see it inworld or demo.   And something you can also try is contact someone who left the latest review. Someone once contacted me, and i was happy to show them why i was happy with my purchase.

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