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JaedenDelanaire

Poll: Genders in SL and RL

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Q: If an RPer plays a gender other than his/her own in real life, does it affect their desirability as an RP candidate, and if so, why?

If the word gender fails to apply to your avatar in SL and you'd still like to answer the question, simply substitute gender for whatever you feel is appropriate. Yes, furries, its and trans, it's your night to shine.

 

 

A friend of mine noted that there was a distinct difficulty in getting people to play with their heterosexual RP characters of the opposite gender when they were upfront about their RL gender. I cannot comment, since my first foray into online RPing consisted of using all male characters as a RL chick--and I've met the majority of all my bestest SL friends while they were in an avatar of a gender not the same as their RL gender--regardless of knowing that up front or much later in confidence.

On second thought, I can comment: I'm baffled there seems to be a difficulty at all. But for those of you for who it does matter, come one come all.

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The word, or abbreviaton, RP says all. If that´s clear from start - no problem.

About the desirability i cannot tell because i do not RP, it´s allways me.

Monti

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RudolphFarquhar wrote:

Everybody in SL is rping, whether they admit it or not.

So the OP's question is redundant.

**********Rudi**********

You are such a troll. :matte-motes-big-grin-wink: Every single post I've seen from you has been a not-so-helpful and passively aggressive confrontration to anything being stated.

The question refers to the specific and intentional act of playing out predetermined roles between two story tellers, but that's a bit long to write out. 

 



Monti Messmer wrote:

The word, or abbreviaton, RP says all. If that´s clear from start - no problem.

About the desirability i cannot tell because i do not RP, it´s allways me.

Monti


 

For the sake of the question, yes. It's clear from the start. No deception is made. It was observed in the conversation I had that it's easier to find RP partners as a specific gender so long as you're already that gender or lying about it.

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JaedenDelanaire wrote:


Every single post I've seen from you has been a not-so-helpful and passively aggressive confrontration to anything being stated.


There's no need to role play - and very badly, at that - an online psychologist (I have yet to find a real psychologist who uses the phrase "passive aggressive", nor one that is willing to hazard a professional guess as to what the common herd might actually mean by it) while admitting that you must have only viewed (or noticed, or remembered - but that is more to do with your own bigoted personality disorders and failings of mental faculties) a very small subset of my extensive postings, which include both positive and negative views (well, one man's meat is another man's poison, as the misquotation from the French has it) as well as constructive, deconstructive, and reconstructive information regarding the indequacies of others.

Or prehaps you feel that a forum should be a place where everybody agrees?

Or maybe they should just agree with you?

**********Rudi**********

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JaedenDelanaire wrote:


Every single post
I've seen from you has been a
not-so-helpful
and
passively aggressive confrontration
to
anything being stated
.




RudolphFarquhar wrote:

There's no need to role play -
and very badly, at that
- an online psychologist (I have yet to find a real psychologist who uses the phrase "passive aggressive", nor one that is willing to hazard a professional guess as to what the common herd might actually mean by it) while admitting that you must have only viewed (or noticed, or remembered - but that is more to do with
your own bigoted
personality disorders and
failings of mental faculties)
a very small subset of my extensive postings, which include both positive and negative views (well, one man's meat is another man's poison, as the misquotation from the French has it) as well as constructive, deconstructive, and reconstructive information regarding the indequacies of others.

Or prehaps you feel that a forum should be a place where everybody agrees?

Or maybe they should just agree with you?

**********Rudi**********

 

Oh, oh, oh, and then he followed it up in the next one for three in a row! :matte-motes-big-grin-squint:

 


RudolphFarquhar wrote:

You don't know with any degree of certainty what their rl ******* gender is anyway, so your OP is multiply redundant.

**********Rudi**********

How redundant is it anyhow to sign your name beneath your already titled posts?  You, Sir, are a hoot.

 

 

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For me, it doesn't matter.....

Most of the "maids" that I have at my house are sissies (which to me is girls with d*icks) who I created when they asked to start an RP, so I knew that each person is a guy behind the keyboard (and their AVs were guys when they started). Also, one of my pets (who I know is a guy because we are FB friends as well) plays a diapered sissy.. Additionally, one of my biggest crushes was on an AV who started as a guy and was transformed into a girl. We had amazing RP sessions together and it never bothered me in the least that I knew he was a guy.

I feel as well that it doesn't matter who you are in RL, if you play a girl in SL then you're a girl. I don't ask and as long as they're not obvious in the way they act, I don't care. I'm interested in enjoyable RP sessions with anyone who does them well.

Hope that answers your questions....

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Not everybody on SL is RPing. Some are, some are not.

There are some people who take on an identity very different from RL. It may be a different species, or person from a different era, or person of a different profession. It can be even include a different gender.

There are others who go to great lengths to make their SL avatar, dress, and behavior very much like there RL self. Of course, SL is not perfect and our abilities to make avartars and clothing are not perfect, so there will be differences. But some people try their best to keep those differences minor.

And, of course, there are very many who are in-between. For example, the elderly person who plays a young person in SL, but otherwise is the same in RL and SL. And there are some whose only difference between SL and RL is gender.

In answer to the OP question, yes, the RL gender of an RPer can matter and can affect the desirability by some people. There are people to play roles quite different from RL, but for whom gender matters. However, there are many to whom it doesn't matter. But it can affect desirability by some. I am not an RPer, (I'm like the second paragraph) so I won't take part in the poll.

Marybeth

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JaedenDelanaire wrote:

Q: If an RPer plays a gender other than his/her own in real life, does it affect their desirability as an RP candidate, and if so, why?


I can think of

  • If a person is not playing the gender well, which many don't.
  • Even if the RP is heterosexual or non sexual, if the person who finds them less than desirable is homophobic or prejudice they may have a hard time with it.
  • If sexual intimacy is involved in the RP and someone just can't forget that the RP partner is not really the sex they portray.  I think not every roleplayer can completely separate their RL self from their RP self in some aspects.  Even the best actors in the world will draw on some aspects of their personality to play roles.  I mean something different than being homophobic or prejudice, but rather more of a RL preference that carries over into the roleplay.

 

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JaedenDelanaire wrote:

 

How redundant is it anyhow to sign your name beneath your already titled posts?  You, Sir, are a hoot.

 

 

It's primarily because forum amateurs, who haven't a clue about quoting other posts, litter the thread with extraneous lines and confusing formatting, rendering lazy readers susceptible to failing to recognise accurately the actual author of the pearls of wisdom offered from my keyboard.

I may not respect your viewpoint, but I do respect the readers here sufficiently to present my views clearly and coherently.

Unlike you.

**********Rudi************

 

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Roswenthe Aluveaux wrote:

Not everybody uses a pseudonym. There are people using their real names.

I suppose Roswenthe is a common name on the planet Pindar.

Or is it how they pronounce Michelle there?

**********Rudi**********

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As Roswenthe said, not everyone uses a pseudymn.

Also, there are many degrees of roleplaying. Some people may use a pseudymn, but in every other way SL is the same as their RL. Others may have an avi that looks the way they wish they did in RL, but in every other way SL is the same as theri RL.

Someone with a furry avi disagreed with me on another tread in another section and pointed out that just because he was a furry does not mean he is a roleplayer.

Marybeth

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Marybeth Cooperstone wrote:

in
every other way
SL is the same as their RL.


Yeah, right. They can fly and teleport in rl . . .

And never eat or defecate . . .

**********Rudi**********

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Marybeth Cooperstone wrote:

 

Someone with a furry avi disagreed with me on another tread in another section and pointed out that just because he was a furry does not mean he is a roleplayer.


Yeah, he's actually a werewolf in rl . . .

**********Rudi**********

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My dear, dear (and most certainly confrontational and passive aggressive) Rudi, that's eight in a row! Are you going to grace me with a ninth? I shall wait anxiously. But on the note of passive aggressiveness, I'm curious how many psychologists you've had the privilege of meeting to make the conclusion of how they manage their practices? I wonder if I should turn this into a cheap shot at your mental health while I'm at it.


Hmmm.


N'aw.

 

@Amethyst Jetaime - Each reason you've brought up echo my own fathoming for why it occurs. Specifically, the fear that your Rp partner may not be capable of playing the gender they desire to well.  I mostly RP with women, so I've come to find that women who are inclined to do so can RP men just as convincingly as any man can lay claim their own gender. In fact, more oft' than not, I actually prefer it when women will play male characters for me as opposed to finding male players.

I'm not entirely sure about the homophobia based ideas, though. My friend noted that when they played their RL gender, they often found heterosexual members of their same sex willing to play with them with better ease than with the gender bender twist in there. This lead my friend into pondering the whole, "Maybe 'normal' people just think it's odd or something" idea. I remember we were preparing to do a scene together with a person we'd just met, and the friend stated their gender to ensure there would be no surprises later down the road, the first question was sort of an incredulous, "Why don't you play your own gender?" And, perhaps for reasons other than that, the scene never got on its way.

I do agree that when sexual intimacy is involved, a great deal of RL preferences are carried over. I'm mostly heterosexual IRL but I swear, as soon as I get to RPing I'm at least 90% batting for the other team, though that may just be my predisposition to gravitate toward well written individuals. :matte-motes-bashful-cute-2:

 

@Monti and Marybeth Cooperstone - Regardless whether or not the question applied to the both of you, as you've both stated you're non-RPers, your input is still invaluable to me and it's warming you took the time to note your own opinions!

 

@Tex Monday - That's wonderful to hear, that you and your friends are able to keep happy while ignoring gender barriers! Sounds like you have some lovely and lucky maids.

 

@Syo Emerald - Huehuehue! Well, I wouldn't necesarily make a blanket statement and call them bad. Sexual preferences are a pretty valid thing to maintain from OOC into IC. But yes, it is rather indicative in neutral settings if a person avoids interactions with another on the basis of their real life gender and for that alone. As if it matters over the internet. :matte-motes-not-entertained:

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In the general NON RP places (like shopping, hang outs, clubs, places to explore, etc) I consider a person's avatar to be an extension of themselves. They might chose to show that part of themselves as a two foot tall chipmunk or a robot with bunny ears and a dress or a heavily muscled man. I don't really care how they present themselves in this setting because what's it to me? They could be ROLE PLAYING who they are presenting to me but to me that's them and if that's what makes them happy then so be it.

In RP SETTING (like, as in an ACTUAL DESIGNATED RP LOCATION) the avatar they chose to present IS THEIR CHARACTER. They might be similar to their character or they might be a total opposite, who knows? But more importantly, wHO CARES?

I am not interacting with the person behind the screen. I am not interacting with the extension. I am ROLE PLAYING, PLAYING A ROLE, with their CHARACTER through MY OWN CHARACTER. What I like or feel or want has nothing to do with my characters.

I have a character on an RP alt that is open to having sexual relations with any gender. He really does not care either way. IRL I am not attracted to female presenting people in that way, but I don't let that stop my character from doing what he wants.

If people cannot separate IN CHARACTER INTERACTIONS with OUT OF CHARACTER INTERACTIONS they have no business in an RP SIM and need to either read the welcome notecards on the explanations or seek help from someone familiar with rp or at some place that will help teach them to separate things.

Maybe one of my characters likes stalking people in dark alleys and gutting them. Does that mean I do? NO. BLOOD ACTUALLY MAKES ME SQUEAMISH. But I'm not ROLE PLAYING myself, am I? NOPE. It's a CHARACTER.

It's all very simple and you people's confusion is cause for some concern.

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JaedenDelanaire wrote:

My dear, dear (and most certainly confrontational and passive aggressive)
Rudi
, that's eight in a row! Are you going to grace me with a ninth? I shall wait anxiously. But on the note of passive aggressiveness, I'm curious how many psychologists you've had the privilege of meeting to make the conclusion of how they manage their practices? I wonder if I should turn this into a cheap shot at your mental health while I'm at it.


Feel free to try. I have considerable experience of trick cyclists, none of whom I would even recommend as a last meal for Hannibal Lector.

My brother is a medical psychologist, and I have to suffer his professional colleagues socially. They, in turn, clamber over each other to avoid sitting next to me at social events, as apparently I ask them questions which they find difficult to answer, which for those with a God Complex (which seems to afflict all doctors) is extremely embarrassing.

My wife is a fully qualified mental health nurse, and her best friend is a forensic psychologist, and when they get together a recurrent topic is that of sectioning me, which together they should be able to accomplish fairly simply. The only problem is that without flashing their credentials nobody would believe they were anything but two of the three mad witches escaped from The Scottish Play, their joint ability to present a spoken argument resting on them being able to wave their arms around like demented mediterraneans while shrieking and hooting in an over-emotional manner.

My cricket captain at college, who was subsequently an extremely successful international Test cricket captain, was famous (or should that be infamous) for his ability to use his professional psychotherapeutic experience in managing conflicting bombastic egos the size of New Zealand. His management of me, in those early days of his journey to fame, was limited to the occasional encouragement to "do what you like"; perhaps his disinclination to influence me was affected by his young son's hero-worship of my trojan efforts on the cricket field.

And then there was that day I spent being "evaluated"  by an occupational psychologist for a fairly menial role within a pompous governmental project; they probably wanted a fall guy they could blame if their hot air burst the balloon. After several different individual and team tests (all of which I aced, principally because I'd done my research) the psychologist told me I was completely unsuited to the job, partly because my reasoning tests had indicated I was in the top 99.99% percentile, but more to the point, she felt that the results of the psychometrics and group activities suggested I was unmanageable, to which she added, very unprofessionally: "And I feel sorry for your wife".

Oh, and my son wants to be a psychologist too; his initial university experience in the field, however, seems to be limited to following pigeons around trash cans attempting to learn about animal foraging behaviour, oblivious to the invidious parallels with his social involvement with "academic" idiots who mindlessly throw alcohol down their necks, and pizza on the floor.

I'll agree with "confrontational" (this is a discussion forum; what else would you be if you are not to role-play a doormat) but I will await your attempt to justify the "passive aggressive" label with interest. Nobody with anything more than a passing acquaintance with me would modify their impression of my overt aggressive attitude with the imprecise dilution that "passive" implies.

I don't include (nor have the tiniest smidgeon of respect for) those online "experts" - such as yourself, it seems - who continually brand me an unempathic psycho- or sociopath, as psychologists, of course.

**********Rudi**********

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I think the most simple answer would be.. preferences are preferences, whether in RP or not. Everyone is entitled to them and to say one is wrong for having certain preferences seems about as confusing to me as why others have those preferences is to others.

That's about as clear as mud now isn't it, lol.

I'm not my avatar, obviously. A lot  of the things I do in sl, I can't do in rl. My avatar clearly has better sight than I do, which is a terrible limitation to have in rl. She can do many, many things I cannot do. But whether I am in an rp setting or not, the feelings, emotions and many of the actions(not all mind you) are extensions or mirrors of, well, me. I don't really know how better to state that. Preferences I have in rl, my av also has in sl. They may not match yours, or anyone else's for that matter. But I'm comfortable with them, I like them, and what matters most to me is that the people who matter to me, understand them(even if they don't share them). Just like I understand theirs.

Now granted I'd never get in any kind of sexual or even mildly intimate rp with anyone but my hubby, for obvious reasons I don't think anyone cares about...BUT, if such a thing would occur, my rl preferences would be manifested in sl. I don't believe there is anything wrong with that. Just as I don't believe there is anything wrong with taking people at avatar face value and ONLY  avatar face value. If you tell me you're a girl-by being a female avatar-then you're a girl. If you tell me you're a guy, but you're playing a female av, I will continue to think of you as guy and your av as a girl. It may affect how we interract. I can't pretend it won't. It may depend on the type of interractions we have, too. Not because I can't separate rl from sl, but because you're presenting me with two face values, not one. You're giving me two scenarios with which to choose from, and I'm going to, likely, mingle the two. You present the ability to mingle the two, you create the scenario yourself. So I don't quite understand the frustrations of some, when that happens(it doesn't make them wrong for feeling that way, I simply don't understand it). Some will choose to ignore, and some won't. So if you are one gender in rl, but play another in sl, and you DON'T want others to treat you as if you're giving them two sides of you, then don't. But if you do, don't be surprised when you get a response you don't like, or if others are choosing to use both scenarios you gave them. If you're going to play a role in sl, be it in some sort of "official" setting(aka, rp sim, location, event, etc..) or not.. then play the darn role well. Just understand that your preferences, your ideals and your abilities are not going to be shared by all. There's nothing at all wrong with that, imo.

Now some, as they've demonstrated, will see the av before them and not care one iota who is behind them, even if they know it is a different gender. That is their preference. I don't always do that. That's my preference. Neither one of us is "right" or "wrong". It's simply how we choose to live our sl-for lack of better wording. It doesn't mean either one cannot, or can, rp well, or even bad. It just is what it is, I suppose.

I think desirability depends a whole lot more on whether or not one CAN play a role, than whether or not someone can separate ic from ooc or rl from sl.(which is what I was talking about when I mentioned giving people two scenarios to choose from)

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@Tari Landar - That's an interestingly honest (and well thought out, I might add) response. I want to make it clear that I don't believe there is any 'wrong' side, and I fully agree: everyone is entitled to discriminating preferences.  Furthermore, I'm not attempting to state that anybody who decides to abstain from play with another based on gender preference is somehow a lesser individual--but as someone who personally doesn't, it's an interesting point for conversation. 

Would it be correct to simplify everything you wrote into a quote from your post? "It may affect how we interract. I can't pretend it won't. ... Not because I can't separate rl from sl, but because you're presenting me with two face values, not one." People have varying degrees to the extent of which they can keep their RL preferences from seeping into their RP. Those who participate in extreme scenarios need to be twice as gifted at it, and yes, sexual intimacy is extreme for some. Having to deal with "two faces" seems a tough perspective to begin with, and I don't blame people who want to avoid it altogether. Sometimes immersion is a hard enough objective to achieve as is without extra complications. :matte-motes-big-grin:

 


And now.

facepalm.gif 

Rudi. Sweetheart. My little pumpkin muffin. Why are you justifying your statement with anecdote? This is the internet, silly boy. How am I ever to belieeeeb you?

I fully support those who can't help but to seek and partake in confrontation, but to devote yourself to antagonizing others is not the behavior of a healthy individual. As for your passive aggression, there are several traits I could list outright, but the biggest is your desire to stick around in a thread when your only contribution was to nit pick at the chosen wording of a question, one which you haven't bothered to answer for yourself. Your continued presence is undesirable, yet here you are. The gnat  on the fruit of my labors.

Perhaps we should skype and watch the Grinch Christmas special today. Your wife never needs know, unless your heart should grow a size bigger. My private inbox is open to you.

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