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Server Side Baking Doesn't Work. Period.


Verena Vuckovic
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It has never worked. Not once. I've lost count of the number of times I've changed my clothes and my avatar goes all blurred...and NOTHING will make it go un-blurred. Sometimes not even re-logging works.

Ctrl-Alt-R used to do the trick, but that now has zero effect. The rebake option in 'Advanced' either takes years or has no effect.

Server side bakng was supposed to make things better. Instead it has done the complete reverse. What is more, if I cannot see my own avatar clearly...how do I now if anyone else can ? I now spend half my time in a blurry state, having to constantly relog in the hope that doing so will fix the issue.

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My anecdata runs contrary to your anecdata, therefore I can assume that Server Side Baking Works At Least Some Of The Time. Period.

If other peoples' anecdata further destabilises your hypothesis, you may want to check that you're not being affected by some other issue, rather than blaming something without investigation.

You've not included any information useful to those who may want to work with you to resolve the problem that you specifically seem to be having.

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As for being affected by 'some other issue'....this problem has persisted through 3 complete reinstallations of Windows ( which were done for other reasons ) and several updates of graphics driver, etc etc etc. The problem still exists with SL installed 5 minutes earlier on a completely fresh install of Windows. My partner has the exact same issue. I know others with the exact same issue. I rest my case.

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Verena Vuckovic wrote:

As for being affected by 'some other issue'....this problem has persisted through 3 complete reinstallations of Windows ( which were done for other reasons ) and several updates of graphics driver, etc etc etc. The problem still exists with SL installed 5 minutes earlier on a completely fresh install of Windows. My partner has the exact same issue. I know others with the exact same issue. I rest my case.

No mention of your network, viewer, technical information or any useful details for troubleshooters (why would reinstalling Windows do anything o_o). I'm skipping out of this vague rant-thread with a few parting words:-

I can assume by the lack of threads on this subject this month that the wide majority of SL users aren't having this issue. Quantity isn't in your favour, so I continue to be pretty confident that this issue is unrelated to the gridwide implementation of SSB.

Like I said, blaming something you can't change doesn't help anyone. Work on detecting issues that you can change. Hostility and blanket statements with no investigation will not get this issue resolved for you, and neither will resting your case. You're gonna have to do the work here.

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Verena Vuckovic wrote:

As for being affected by 'some other issue'....this problem has persisted through 3 complete reinstallations of Windows ( which were done for other reasons ) and several updates of graphics driver, etc etc etc. The problem still exists with SL installed 5 minutes earlier on a completely fresh install of Windows. My partner has the exact same issue. I know others with the exact same issue. I rest my case.

My old car usually was surrounded by a cloud of pungent gasoline vapor after it started running. Must have been the fault of the gas station I went to, right? Because it didn't stop after I added power steering fluid (wihich DID help the low, bansheelike wail it made when turning tightly), or added oil (which DID turn off that little red light that went on in the morning.) So it's obvious that the gas station I went to was TEH SUXXORS and should be reported to the authorities.

Or, just maybe,  MIGHT it have been because my old car was a janked-up mess, as should have been clear from the other things I described, and probably had a gas-line leak? Hmmm....

Blurred textures are a sign that the textures didn't arrive completely. Blurred avatar textures used to be more common because every texture made two trips through people's internet connections - one from your viewer to the servers and then a second one from the servers back to your viewer. If you had problems on the upload end textures would have been blurry for everyone.

With SSB the textures only make one trip - from the servers to the viewers. They always start out sharp because the individual textures are composited on servers, just like when your textures rebaked in the old system they were always sharp at first TO YOU because they were composited locally.

Therefore, blurring is a symptom of problems in the HTTP connections for the one-way trip from the servers to your viewer. "Rebake" doesn't work, but you should find that selecting your avatar and selecting "Refresh textures" will, if that's a feature of your viewer. You also complained a few months ago about extreme problems teleporting - these are also symptomatic of connection issues.

It may be possible to fix your connection issues, but not if you've assured yourself that nothing can possibly be wrong on your end.

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Theresa Tennyson wrote:

Therefore, blurring is a symptom of problems in the HTTP connections for the one-way trip from the servers to your viewer. "Rebake" doesn't work, but you should find that selecting your avatar and selecting "Refresh textures" will, if that's a feature of your viewer.
You also complained a few months ago about extreme problems teleporting - these are also symptomatic of connection issues.

It may be possible to fix your connection issues, but not if you've assured yourself that nothing can possibly be wrong on your end.


All of this. But especially the bold.

But mostly, all of this. Good post!

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Well...

Server side baking does work  but in the fashion of LL  that means sometimes... it is normally fine when logging in but after a time in game it begins to fail  rebake has been over baked for quite some time now and is a worthless function  occasionally a texture refresh works on objects and other avatars but most of the time to correct the problem requires a re log also going into appearance and changing a setting and saving cures the problem sometimes

 

There are not many threads on this topic because it appears most have just given up and live with the problem

Yes the problem exists No it is not operating system sensitive  although a bad connection may contribute but I do not have a bad connection

Again I do know people who never have this problem but they are running the latest greatest processors and gpu's not something most of us use

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"There are not many threads on this topic because it appears most have just given up and live with the problem"

 

Yes...that is the real situation. I know quite a few people who have experienced the issue, but most just grin and bear it because ( as one can see here ) raising the issue seems to be pointless !

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Verena Vuckovic wrote:

Yes...that is the real situation. I know quite a few people who have experienced the issue, but most just grin and bear it because ( as one can see here ) raising the issue seems to be pointless !


Are you looking for a solution or do you just want to gripe?

There may or may not be a solution for your problem but I can't find a single post by you saying "Help."

ETA, what is pointless here is starting a thread with the title "Server Side Baking Doesn't Work: Period," when obviously for the vast majority it does work.

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"There may or may not be a solution for your problem but I can't find a single post by you saying "Help."

It's quite clear that people who's entire approach is ' It can't possibly be anything wrong with SL....it must be your system' are incapable of even understanding the concept of help....let alone providing it.

I don't want your patronising and condescending  'help'....I want a probem with SL to be fixed.

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Verena Vuckovic wrote:

"There may or may not be a solution for your problem but I can't find a single post by you saying "Help."

It's quite clear that people who's entire approach is ' It can't possibly be anything wrong with SL....it must be your system' are incapable of even understanding the concept of help....let alone providing it.

I don't want your patronising and condescending  'help'....I want a probem with SL to be fixed.

If you really wanted to fix the problem, you'd post your system specs. Connection diagnostics/method. You'd offer up your environment for troubleshooting.

Most people that think they're running "top rate machines" are running toasters that are better off scrapped.

Server side baking is working as intended. If you're having problems, fix your computer. If you don't know how to do that, give us the information for us to offer solutions.

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Verena Vuckovic wrote:

"There may or may not be a solution for your problem but I can't find a single post by you saying "Help."

It's quite clear that people who's entire approach is ' It can't possibly be anything wrong with SL....it must be your system' are incapable of even understanding the concept of help....let alone providing it.

I don't want your patronising and condescending  'help'....I want a probem with SL to be fixed.

Hold your breath.

...Dres

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Verena Vuckovic wrote:

"There may or may not be a solution for your problem but I can't find a single post by you saying "Help."

It's quite clear that people who's entire approach is ' It can't possibly be anything wrong with SL....it must be your system' are incapable of even understanding the concept of help....let alone providing it.

I don't want your patronising and condescending  'help'....I want a probem with SL to be fixed.

Translation:

I am unwilling to take any (further) steps to make sure that it is not an issue on my end. I refuse even to provide any information that might prove helpful in diagnosing the problem. I prefer to blame LL even though the majority of users are not experiencing this problem (or at least are not talking about it).

ETA: Sounded like you wanted patronising and condescending. Perrie's repsonse wasn't either, but I'm happy to oblige.

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"Server side baking is working as intended. If you're having problems, fix your computer."

 

Same old condescending nonsense. There is nothing wrong with my computer. I work with computers...I probably know more about them than you do !

My computer is only 18 months old and is way above the minimum requirements for SL....and is running on an 80mbps connection. I get the issue even when SL is the only application installed after a completely new install of Windows....so there is not some software conflict or something. My partner is running on an even higher spec machine ( GTX 700 series GPU ) and yet still gets the exact same problem.

So...any more bright ideas before you admit what we all know....that it is actually a problem with SL

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"There are not many threads on this topic because it appears most have just given up and live with the problem

Yes the problem exists No it is not operating system sensitive"

 

Yes, there are many people who have noticed the issue. And as you say, most have simply given up on anything ever being done about it....or getting anything other than a condescending ' it must be your computer ' type response from the self-proclaimed know-alls.

The problem exists. It is real. It is not people's imaginations or creaky old computers. What is more, the textures clearly ARE being downloaded fully as they appear fine if one briefly does a 'change appearance' yet it goes back to being blurred if you exit that. The problem has existed for months and months now.

But given the general sort of response here, one might as well go back to just giving up on the issue.

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Verena Vuckovic wrote:

Frankly its utterly nauseating when one gets the usual trolls who come on to post that there can't possibly be anything wrong because they personally do not get ( or more likely, have not noticed ) a particular issue.

What's maddening is when the usual trolls come on to post that the problem can't possibly be on their end and refuse to even consider the possibility.

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Verena Vuckovic wrote:

"There are not many threads on this topic because it appears most have just given up and live with the problem

Yes the problem exists No it is not operating system sensitive"

 

Yes, there are
many
people who have noticed the issue. And as you say, most have simply given up on anything ever being done about it....or getting anything other than a condescending ' it must be your computer ' type response from the self-proclaimed know-alls.

The problem exists. It is real. It is not people's imaginations or creaky old computers. What is more, the textures clearly ARE being downloaded fully as they appear fine if one briefly does a 'change appearance' yet it goes back to being blurred if you exit that. The problem has existed for months and months now.

But given the general sort of response here, one might as well go back to just giving up on the issue.

The textures that look "fine" are the individual textures for your skin and any clothing you're wearing. They are being composited in your viewer. You only see these textures on your computer - they are completely separate from the baked avatar textures that are being sent from the server. They always were. The only difference now is that it used to be this composited texture would then be sent to the servers, where it would be sent out to everyone, including yourself. This was the old "sharp-blurry-(maybe) sharp" sequence that used to happen when you changed your clothes. Now this "local bake" is only done in the "change appearance" process.

The big problem a lot of people have been having with connections isn't connection speed, it's the fact that the viewer defaults to opening many HTTP connections simultaneously. For instance:

1) Up to 40 connections for in-world scenic textures if "HTTP Textures" is turned on.

2) Up to 32 simultaneous connections, always HTTP,  to bring over meshes (or more if people listen to old wives' tales and set a debug setting higher.)

3) A certain number of NEW connections, always HTTP, on top of that to bring over the avatar bake.

If you're running two viewer instances simultaneously? Double these numbers. Running a current SL viewer can be the equvalent of the communications needs of a small business. Some modems/routers choke on this many connections.  (To answer your next question, there is already a project at LL to reduce the number of simultaneous connections - should be out in early 2014.) And if the simultaneous connections are your problem, all the ISP speed numbers in the world won't do you any good.

I've lived at a place with a router that handled these connections badly and needed to adjust my settings to compensate. However, at my current address it works fine. And my amaaaaayzing hardware? 2008 vintage Dell desktop, middle of the road Nvida graphics card, $69 cable modem from Wal-Mart on a 3 meg-ish connection that came free with my apartment, and that redheaded stepchild of operating systems, Windows Vista.

Here's a Firestorm JIRA that describes your problem (with a whopping 6 people watching it.)

http://jira.phoenixviewer.com/browse/FIRE-11143

Note that one of the people had the problem magically go away with no known viewer changes necessary.

 

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"Some modems/routers choke on this many connections."

Well...I'm running the BT Home Hub 5, which is designed for super-fast broadband and only came out a few months ago. So I'm not exactly running some archaic old router.

What's more, 'change appearance' and save does sometimes fix the issue, though often it doesn't, which alone suggests it is not a problem at my end or it would be consistent.

My definition of a problem NOT being at my end is if my system meets the minimum spec ( which it well exceeds ) and I've been given no information by the service provider that anything else within the normal scope of things would cause a problem. If, for example, SL is running some procedure that the providers KNOW will cause prooblems on a lot of PCs ( such as the HTTP stuff ) yet fail to give any warning or notice of this....then the problem is clearly at the provider end for not telling people about it.

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Griffin Ceawlin wrote:


Verena Vuckovic wrote:

For your information, I am running a 76mbps connection on a top rate machine.

...

... running on an
80mbps
connection.


Interesting how your connection just gets better and better.

Let me guess. Wireless router.

I do not use SL with wireless, I've learned with auto negotiate and auto speeds and auto channels, the wireless speed never stays the same, even if you connection will stay about the same.   wireless is a packet dropping maniac and SL does not like lost packets. 

 

 

So griff you might be correct.  

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