SL, Cory Ondrejka, and the NSA. Anyone surprised?

[Love Hastings]

Damn, back and gone before I could even say, "hi!"

 

[Dillon Levenque]

I don't hate my job but I do occasionally object to its intrusions on my Forum time. It did that this morning and I've missed the Scylla sighting! Was nice to see her, and nice to see she is much the same in outlook and attitude.

I can't really get too excited about all of this snooping around, either. It just seems so incredibly stupid it's difficult for me to get upset about it.

[RudolphFarquhar]

I'd like to say thank you to the NSA (via GCHQ) for letting me know in advance earlier today that Scylla was firing up her PC and intending to post to the forums, which allowed me to be online and ready to respond to her overt paranoia in my usual jocular fashion, thus defusing any potential tension between Americans and non-Americans..

**********Rudi**********

[Hoshi Kenin]

Which is, of course, the general reaction of the 'ostrich-like, head-buried-in-sand oppressed' when they still believe they live in a free society.  Time's ticking.  When will you wake up?

My money's on far, far too late. )

[Burper Tilling]

It has been long apparent to myself that Second Life is capable of providing a clandestine meeting place and efficient money laundry for persons who are up to no good.  This is not just terrorists and other political extremists but also organised criminals including those involved in drugs, fraud and the illegal side of the sex industry.  It is in Second LIfe possible to hide everything from the outside world.  One's inventory is safe from interlopers - one can imagine what might be stored as textures, pictures or notecards.  And although the large corporations failed to embrace the idea of using SL as a virtual rendezvous the very secrecy it allows would appear to be ideal for persons who need to act in secret.  What one might consider is whether any of the security investigators who infiltrated Second Life ended up 'going native' and having a good time.

Second Life provides a clandestine meeting place not only for real world conspirators, but also for internal conspirators, in other words those who seek to defraud people of their Linden Dollars or their virtual property or to organise a co-ordinated and devastating griefer attack.  

 

 

[Storm Clarence]

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Burper Tilling wrote:

  What one might consider

is whether any of the security investigators who infiltrated Second Life ended up 'going native' and having a good time.

 

 

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Ain't that what alts are for?

[Czari Zenovka]

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Innula Zenovka wrote:

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Czari Zenovka wrote:

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Libertarian can of course be used to describe a political philosophy as well as one of the alternate established U.S. political parties but I would concur with Qie on his rationale.

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Priceless!!

[Celestiall Nightfire]

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Scylla Rhiadra wrote:

Well, well, well . . .

"In 2007, as the NSA and other intelligence agencies were beginning to explore virtual games, NSA officials met with the chief technology officer for the manufacturer of Second Life, the San Francisco-based Linden Lab. The executive, Cory Ondrejka, was a former Navy officer who had worked at the NSA with a top-secret security clearance.

He visited the agency’s headquarters at Fort Meade, Md., in May 2007 to speak to staff members over a brown bag lunch, according to an internal agency announcement. 'Second Life has proven that virtual worlds of social networking are a reality: come hear Cory tell you why!' said the announcement. It added that virtual worlds gave the government the opportunity 'to understand the motivation, context and consequent behaviors of non-Americans through observation, without leaving U.S. soil.'

Ondrejka, now the director of mobile engineering at Facebook, said through a representative that the NSA presentation was similar to others he gave in that period, and declined to comment further."

 

I knew that there was something fishy about that bisexual furry skunk.

http://www.propublica.org/article/world-of-spycraft-intelligence-agencies-spied-in-online-games

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*waves*  Hi Scylla, I was reading and commenting about this earlier today.

Mashable posted a piece.

http://mashable.com/2013/12/09/nsa-gchq-world-of-warcraft-games/

""Blizzard Entertainment, the producer of World of Warcraft, denied granting permission to the NSA or the GCHQ to monitor its networks, the news organizations reported. Both Microsoft and Linden Lab, the maker of Second Life, declined to comment.""

At least Blizzard showed some spine.   Of course, Cory, declined to comment further (from your article) and Microsoft and LL declined to comment now. 

[Celestiall Nightfire]

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Qie Niangao wrote:

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What IS a bit surprising is that this occurred under Rosedale's watch. Rosedale was supposed to be the great libertarian, remember? How the hell did HE reconcile this with what SL supposedly stood for?

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No contradiction there at all. The NSA thing was just another attempt to lure money from government and enterprise, and there's just nothing more smoking jacket Libertarian than a company's God-given right to wrest every dime it can scam from others, free market ftw, eh wot?

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Yes, there is a contradiction Qie.  A big one.  I'm a Libertarian, and there's nothing libertarian about bending over and letting the Feds have access to your clients information.   That's not enterprise, it's betraying trust.  It's violating privacy, and it's being in cahoots with an agency that most libertarians don't even think should exist. (Or, if it exists, should be greatly diminished)

But, having seen how LL operates all these years, it's very likely that Rosedale didn't know what was going on.  Within LL the left and right hands don't seem to be connected to the same brain.

[Celestiall Nightfire]

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Scylla Rhiadra wrote:

Hey Qie! Nice to, um, see you again!

 

Yes, but I always thought -- evidently incorrectly -- that Rosedale was an "old fashioned" libertarian, rather than a neoliberal. Which is to say, a libertarian with at least some semblance of ethics.

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I think we overestimate the reach and involvement of Rosedale by that time.  He had mentally moved on to other projects. 

Or, he lacked ethics.  Could be either.  (People of all political persuasions can lack ethics, sadly)

[Celestiall Nightfire]

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Innula Zenovka wrote:

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Czari Zenovka wrote:

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Libertarian can of course be used to describe a political philosophy as well as one of the alternate established U.S. political parties but I would concur with Qie on his rationale.

---

 

 

 

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That was shared a lot in libertarian circles when it came out.  We were laughing so hard.  It's hilariously accurate for subsets of libertarians.  hehe

Except...you can never have too much Heinlein.  ; )

[Dillon Levenque]

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Celestiall Nightfire wrote:

That was shared a lot in libertarian circles when it came out.  We were laughing so hard.  It's hilariously accurate for subsets of libertarians.  hehe

Except...you can never have too much Heinlein.  ; )

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Ahh. Now I grok where you're coming from.

[Dresden Ceriano]

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Dillon Levenque wrote:

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Celestiall Nightfire wrote:

That was shared a lot in libertarian circles when it came out.  We were laughing so hard.  It's hilariously accurate for subsets of libertarians.  hehe

Except...you can never have too much Heinlein.  ; )

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Ahh. Now I grok where you're coming from.

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...Dres

[RudolphFarquhar]

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Storm Clarence wrote:

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Burper Tilling wrote:

  What one might consider

is whether any of the security investigators who infiltrated Second Life ended up 'going native' and having a good time.

 

 

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Ain't that what alts are for?

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Not necessarily.

**********Rudi**********

[RudolphFarquhar]

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Hoshi Kenin wrote:

Which is, of course, the general reaction of the 'ostrich-like, head-buried-in-sand oppressed' when they still believe they live in a free society.  Time's ticking.  When will 

you

wake up?

My money's on far, far too late.

)

---

Erm, in my case it's more that I understand the ******* system only too  well, and abuse it, for pleasure.

The last time someone dared to try to oppress me was in kindergarten when the ******* teacher tried to stop me eating cough sweets in class; she failed.

**********Rudi**********

[RudolphFarquhar]

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Celestiall Nightfire wrote:

 

But, having seen how LL operates all these years, it's very likely that Rosedale didn't know what was going on. 

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Does anybody in LL really know what's ******* going on? I don't ******* think so.

**********Rudi*********

[Errsatz]

Well, well. Look what the lolcat dragged in.

Hey Scylla, what say you and me head over to Hemmingways and discuss a collaborative proposal for investigating identity, personality and avatar composition for the boys and girls over at CSEC.

 

Lots of free money to be had.

What say you?

 

ETA Or maybe we can just talk about collaborating? Hmmm :matte-motes-wink-tongue:

[Paul Hexem]

Some agents got caught playing MMO's at work. To get out of it, they said "No, no. I'm not raiding Thunder King. I'm tracking Adam Yahiye Gadahn, he plays a blood elf rogue. That's why rogues never get a buff."

[Scylla Rhiadra]

My. That sounds exciting and dangerous! Are you an operative, or just a freelancer?

Unfortunately, Mum told me never to go to Hemmingway's with someone less that 48 hours old.

And I always listen to Mum. :matte-motes-grin:

[Scylla Rhiadra]

As self-indulgent and boring for most of you as it will undoubtedly seem, I hate missing old friends.

Sooo . . . Hugs to Canoro, and Dres, and Love, and Dillon, and Celestiall! :matte-motes-smile:

(I hate these smilies.)

And just as a parting shot at relevance . . . it is outrageous, obviously, that the government (any government) spies on us. They couldn't do this without judicial authorization if we were on the phone, but apparently harvesting us like we were a junk crop is fine online.

But the real disturbing thing, surely, is that LL hasn't just let this happen. They invited them in.

So much for the free spirit of Burning Man, eh?

kk, enough! Byeeeee! :-)

[Knowl Paine]

I find some aspects of this discussion disturbing. Understanding of the law is presumed and any intelligent person will recognize that the law is a presumptuous fickle instrument. The law is a political tool in the form of wheel used to quicken a race. Justice is blind and she's in a hurry, going where she knows not. In her haste, many a men have become entangled in her turning wheels.

Corporations are not people. People have a right to create legal fictions. A corporation is an example of a fictitious entity. A presence is an image or a light. In Light of recent events, LL may wish to protect their corporate Image.

Any citing of the recent Supreme Court ruling will be rejected. The Court is a party to the action, the Judges work for the State. If a person wants to recognize Wally Mart as a person, I suggest they meet with Wally in person, before they decide.

The frameworkers' of our reality, our founding fathers, dazzled with brilliance. There is a key that opens the doors of domination. The power is within each of us, we were endowed with it by our creator.

 

Inalienable Rights

Definition of INALIENABLE in·al·ien·a·ble [ in áylee ənəb'l ] : incapable of being alienated, surrendered, or transferred.
Adjective not alienable ; not transferable to another or capable of being repudiated: inalienable rights. Origin: 1635–45

1. Impossible to take away: not able to be transferred or taken away, e.g. because of being protected by law

2. That cannot be transferred to another or others: inalienable rights

Inalienable right Part of Speech: n Definition: a right according to natural law, a right that cannot be taken away, denied, or transferred

In morality, the term inalienable rights (sometimes unalienable rights) refers to the concept of rights that are completely inseparable from those to whom they belong..

 

Participating in Second Life is a voluntary action and choice.

Operating a Lawful business is a choice.

[Celestiall Nightfire]

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Scylla Rhiadra wrote:

But the 

real

disturbing thing, surely, is that LL hasn't just let this happen. 

They invited them in

.

 

So much for the free spirit of Burning Man, eh?

---

Yup.  Exactly

 

 

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Scylla Rhiadra wrote:

kk, enough! Byeeeee! :-)

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Dammit woman, if you see this, send me a PM.  The brain drain around here's been terrible.  (and maybe you're in other online venues?)

 

 

[RudolphFarquhar]

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Scylla Rhiadra wrote:

 They couldn't do this without judicial authorization if we were on the phone

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How naive can you get. I thought better of you Scylla. Or does the likes of Angela Merkel not count because she isn't very feminine?

Although perhaps you have been hiding in an underground bunker with a tinfoil hat on for the last year or so of your absence.

**********Rudi**********

[A3123]

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RudolphFarquhar wrote:

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Scylla Rhiadra wrote:

 They couldn't do this without judicial authorization if we were on the phone

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How naive can you get. I thought better of you Scylla. Or does he likes of Angela Merkel not count because she isn't very feminine?

Although perhaps you have been hiding in an underground bunker with a tinfoil hat on for the last year or so of your absence.

**********Rudi**********

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he likes? esl much?

[RudolphFarquhar]

Is anybody concerned that the NSA are tapping the Pope's phone?

Apparently they haven't yet been able to crack the code he uses, but have given it the code name "Latin".

**********Rudi**********