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Why is it SL has 20 different viewers


PookeyBear
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One day the Linden God's looked down upon SL.

And the Linden God's saw that their was only one light setting and decided "how boring."

So the Linden God's said, "Let there be Windlight!"

And it was so.

And the Inhabitants of SL embraced the Windlight and nurtured her and had their way with her.

And great joy fell upon all.

 

So even if there was only One Viewer, it would be no guarantee everything saw every thing the same.

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The issue isn't that scenes look different, it's that the user inteface is different. So when you're trying to teach someone how to navigate the SLV UI, you can't say "Go to the "Me" menu" and expect the other party to understand, as they may have no such menu. They may also have a drop down right-click, where you have a pie, and with different options in each, or the same options, but with different names.

Across the TPV's the UI is a Tower of Babble.

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PookeyBear wrote:

25 people in an area are going to use different viewers so 25 peope are going to see everyone differently  :robotwink:

Even if multiple viewers were not available, even pre-Windlight no one ever really saw everyone the same, depending at first on if one person had the world set to midnight, for example, and the other set to noon.  That is one of the reasons facelights were popular back in the day - so that an avatar could still be seen clearly without ugly shadows on (usually) her face.

With the advent of Windlight and a lot more environmental settings, everyone seeing the same thing the same way went out the window.  Add in all the various optional settings such as advanced lighting, plus some people having graphics set to low and others ultra-high - again, even on the LL official viewer, the "shared viewing experience" isn't likely overall.

Edit: typos

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Just to clarify about the "shared viewing experience," that doesn't mean that things have to look the same for everyone -- as you rightly say, that's never been the case, even before TPVs were in any sort of wide use.

What that means, as I understand it, is that TPVs can't (with a couple of agreed exceptions that were grandfathered in) use visual effects that rely on technology that isn't there in the official viewer.   The classic example are the old illegal attachment points that Emerald used to use -- they looked good to people using TPVs that could see the extra points but people not using such viewers saw the attachments floating round in space rather than attached to the avatar.

 

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Blue Voix wrote:

Which is why almost every third party viewer has a in world support group.....

Which is inefficient and does not address the issue of trying to help, or get help from, people using different viewers. In the past, when trying to teach people about SL, I often found it necessary to inquire which viewer they were using, then download and run the same myself. This was the only way I could avoid the confusion of that Tower of Babble.

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But even if all of us had the same hardware, used the same viewer on the same monitor and had the same bandwidth access to SL; there would still be llTargetOmega and any/all given animation(s) to ensure that each of us have a unique experience.

 

Nature of the beast- there are no two of us that are capable of "seeing" the same thing. "Pretty much close" is the best we can expect and is completely adequate within a shared environment...

 

... Just as in RL.

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Madelaine McMasters wrote:


Blue Voix wrote:

Which is why almost every third party viewer has a in world support group.....

Which is inefficient and does not address the issue of trying to help, or get help from, people using different viewers. In the past, when trying to teach people about SL, I often found it necessary to inquire which viewer they were using, then download and run the same myself. This was the only way I could avoid the confusion of that Tower of Babble.

WOW - Madelaine - you get the Compassion Award for helping that way. Applauds!!!!

prize.jpg

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KarenMichelle Lane wrote:

WOW - Madelaine - you get the Compassion Award for helping that way. Applauds!!!!


Do I still get the award if I admit that I was setting fire to pin filled Linden voodoo dolls while helping other people learn SL?

Oh, and call me Maddy, I don't like being reminded that I don't know how to pronounce Madelaine.

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Innula Zenovka wrote:

Just to clarify about the "shared viewing experience," that doesn't mean that things have to look the same for everyone -- as you rightly say, that's never been the case, even before TPVs were in any sort of wide use.

What that means, as I understand it, is that TPVs can't (with a couple of agreed exceptions that were grandfathered in) use visual effects that rely on technology that isn't there in the official viewer.   The classic example are the old illegal attachment points that Emerald used to use -- they looked good to people using TPVs that could see the extra points but people not using such viewers saw the attachments floating round in space rather than attached to the avatar.

Those were really fallout from another viewer that was stopped earlier. One person worked out a scheme that hosted sort of a competing virtual world on top of Second Life's infrastructure, using a private asset store accessed by a special viewer. This viewer was denied a TPV listing for the shared experience reason, then that policy was made formal about a year later.

 
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Madelaine McMasters wrote:


KarenMichelle Lane wrote:

WOW - Madelaine - you get the Compassion Award for helping that way. Applauds!!!!


Do I still get the award if I admit that I was setting fire to pin filled Linden voodoo dolls while helping other people learn SL?

Oh, and call me Maddy, I don't like being reminded that I don't know how to pronounce Madelaine.

OKies Maddy! Do you care to bowl a few frames?

Bowling-for-Staffers.jpg

 

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PookeyBear wrote:

25 people in an area are going to use different viewers so 25 peope are going to see everyone differently  :robotwink:

In case it hasn't already been said, there are not 25 different viewers. LL makes the only viewers. All the others are LL viewers (the actual code written by LL) with some features added. I don't know how many of LL's viewers actually work now but probably only 2 or 3.

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Also because different viewers have nit just the standard features, but some little extras that help in doing different things.

And since SL started revamping after V1, they've add junk that really is useless that not everyone likes or wants.

TPV have always tended to give better performance and can be much more stable.

In short, the post V1 SL Official viewer sucks.

 

.

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Phil Deakins wrote:


PookeyBear wrote:

25 people in an area are going to use different viewers so 25 peope are going to see everyone differently  :robotwink:

In case it hasn't already been said, there are
not
25 different viewers. LL makes the only viewers. All the others are LL viewers (the actual code written by LL) with some features added. I don't know how many of LL's viewers actually work now but probably only 2 or 3.

I'm compelled to add my share of "splitting hairs" here. :smileytongue:

different

adj

1. partly or completely unlike

2. not identical or the same

(I'm sure that you are aware of the definition of different...)

Even though a TPV viewer will have some 90 per cent of Linden Lab code in it, and only 10 per cent of their own code, that added merged code will make the viewers different. They are partly unlike, they are not identical or the same. The user surely will see them as different viewers in functionality and usability. So, in this respect I see it all right to say that there are about  twenty or so different viewers available.

... or if not, we need a loose definition for "different"...

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Phil Deakins wrote:


PookeyBear wrote:

25 people in an area are going to use different viewers so 25 peope are going to see everyone differently  :robotwink:

In case it hasn't already been said, there are
not
25 different viewers. LL makes the only viewers. All the others are LL viewers (the actual code written by LL) with some features added. I don't know how many of LL's viewers actually work now but probably only 2 or 3.

I was going to say much the same thing, although I think Lumiya (on Android) diverges ambitiously enough to qualify as genuinely "different".

Otherwise, yeah, those "different" viewers are simply 25 elaborations of the same code. We'd probably have more real variety if LL had never open-sourced the viewer and instead simply published a controlled interface spec.

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PookeyBear wrote:

25 people in an area are going to use different viewers so 25 peope are going to see everyone differently  **Only uploaded images may be used in postings**://secondlife.i.lithium.com/i/smilies/16x16_robot-wink.gif" border="0" alt=":robotwink:" title="Robot wink" />

Why are there 300 or 400 different Linux distributiions? Same reason: the code is Open Source. Everybody and their granny can take the kernel code and mod it to their fancy. Of course not all distros and viewers are good for everybody. Some may want their Linux to look and feel like Windoze, some want a MacOS experience, some want their SL viewer to look and feel like V1, some want the V3 GUI.

As long as everybody is prepared to do some market reserach it's all cool and groovy.

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