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Nielso

The fear of child avatars

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Dresden Ceriano wrote:

I neither fear nor hate child avatars.  In fact, I much prefer them to the real thing, simply because I can mute them without needing to have duct tape handy.

...Dres

If only kudos were allowed here This is hilarious and fairly true..

 

@ OP Personally nearly every child avie I've met is nuts. I think I met maybe one or two that talked like a real child and weren't a pain. I even had one IM me out of the blue to call me a erm..women of low morals so to speak. I mean...HONESTLY!? Also there's the high number of them who are dramatic beyond belief...and immature themselves. I mean there are some who roleplay it right mind you. Being a brat is fine if it's in the context of your rp with WILLING participants. I'm just not a fan of being forced to put up with it. I'm actually more then willing to participate in a good random RP and act like you really are a child. Not everyone is though...and if I say no thanks you should either except and act like an adult towards me or move along.

 

But yeah My experiences with child avies...by and far not amazing...with some exceptions of course. I won't off the bat assume your bad as a child avie even despite this...but PLEASE don't give me a reason

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Syo Emerald wrote:

 

Seriously, thats silly.

 

Next thing you tell me I'm not allowed to have a virtual pet, because their might be someone who is allergic to animalhair and can't have a cat or dog because of that.

If I would meet someone who gets offended because of such things....well then they deserve it.

I've actually heard that claimed... And yes it's silly, and a clear indication of how deep our society has sunk when such is the attitude of people that they consider it logical that because they can't have something for whatever reason nobody else should be allowed to have it either.

As to child avatars, it's indeed because of how they tend to act. And to prevent the sim owner getting into trouble with them.

 

As you no doubt know a lot of furniture and other items in SL have "naughty" poses in them. A child avatar anywhere near such an item is a violation of the TOS, and in the past (and maybe still) people have abused that by jumping into a region with some child avatars, enjoy in some "naughty play", make screenshots, and file a report against the sim owner for allowing that.

By having a policy to not allow child avatars at all on a sim, and policing it, sim owners have some defense against that, in that they can state correctly that the child avatars were there in violation of the access rules set up for the region.

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Madeline Blackbart wrote:


Griffin Ceawlin wrote:


Nielso wrote:

As said before, it might be a cultural thing though. America is the land of possibilities. Everything is allowed, everyone is free. You can own guns, you can play GTA V and
torture people to death
etc.

I must have missed where torture, even to death, was allowed.

Me to. I was born here in NJ. Maybe NJ is just to liberal for the torture thing? But I live in PA now and I'm pretty sure torture still isn't allow here either. We do all own guns though. Hunting is rather popular. Though not hunting people....last I checked.

liberals claim that a judge not convicting a guy of murder who killed in self defense is equivalent to that judge confirming that hunting people for sport is legal...

Which is of course utter nonsense, but there's always someone who'll believe utter nonsense.

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Nielsen wrote:

As said before, it might be a cultural thing though. America is the land of possibilities. Everything is allowed, everyone is free. You can own guns, you can play GTA V and torture people to death etc. But allowing a child avatar join a medieval/western/scifi etc sim is forbidden and taboo.

You write a post about discriminating against child avatars based on stereotypes yet fall into the same trap yourself in believing stereotypes of Americans and making false and offensive statements about them.. 

As an American I can assure you that everything is NOT allowed.  Not everyone is allowed to own a gun or even any type of gun they might want to own.  In fact there are a large number of people that do not own guns or want anything to do with them.  Most of all, NO ONE is torturing anyone here other than an occasional criminally insane person.  There are criminally insane people all over the world not just in America.  I bet there are some in your country. but we don't say that everyone that lives there acts that way.

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Nielso wrote:

I thank those who have contributed so far in a good way. The majority of the posts are constructive and honest.

Perhaps I should have been a bit more clear what I mean by the definition of ''child avatar''.

 

To me it means an avatar between the ages of 12 -17. A teenager.  I agree that really young avatars (like 5 or younger even) have no place in an adult sim.

 
A teenager is a teenager, not a child. A child avatar is one that is below 12.
 

I also agree that when you visit a RP sim you should dress accordingly, so it fits the theme and you should adjust your speech to your role. If you are a 13 year old girl as your avatar then you should leave that horrible toddler language at home ^^.  The thing that disturbs me most is that on almost every RP sim it seems that life begins at 18 years old. People are born 18 years old. Anything below the age of 18 is foreign, and what is foreign we don't understand, what we don't understand we don't like and don't want.

A 13 year old that talks like a toddler has serious issues.  Yes, most RP sims have a minimum age of 18, because they don't want to have to police the sim constantly over adult things around child avs.

It somehow bugs me that on let's say a Western sim (using the example I saw earlier in this topic) won't be allowing children to RP there. It would be weird as children wouldn't exist in that world then. To me it would seem more than acceptable to have children RP there too as long as they play their role correctly. (No toddler language etc) and back then the children would be respectful towards their elders/parents.

And you could smack the hell out of them if they misbehave, too.

All I am asking is to step away out of this fear bubble for a second and look at things with more realism. LL has allowed teenagers 16-17 to join our grid. Why don't we allow them to be their RL selves when they visit us? Or even worse, why don't we allow our virtual selves to be 16-17 on our sims when there are people among us that have that RL age?

 
RL teens can not access any sim other than G ones. Most RP sims have to be M by default if they have combat. Teens can't go there anyway.

As said before, it might be a cultural thing though. America is the land of possibilities. Everything is allowed, everyone is free. You can own guns, you can play GTA V and torture people to death etc. But allowing a child avatar join a medieval/western/scifi etc sim is forbidden and taboo.

As has been said before, your views of America are flawed. Most states require a license to have a gun, you must be 18 to buy GTA V and torture is illegal, except in Gitmo.

 

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I am not afraid of child avatars, nor do i hate them.

I do find however find them extremely creepy.

If you want to rp a child, by all means go for it and have fun.  But children are not allowed in bars, sex clubs etc in RL so why should they be in SL?

If I go to an Adult venue, I expect I will be interacting with other adults, not dealing with an adult rp'ing a brat who can't behave.   Alts are easy to make, so why not make an adult alt to go to those venues where child avatars aren't welcome?

 

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One of the reasons that I play is to get away from the kids for a while.

So no, I'm not a fan of child avatars

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@Drake according to the access rules for A rated (and M rated, but people tend to forget that) land in SL you have to be 18 years old.

Based on that most sim owners, to avoid trouble, will demand all their visiting avatars appear to be at least 18 years old as well, hence the definition of "child avatar" includes "teen avatar" as well, de facto or de jure is irrelevant in that as the sim owners' rules extend the TOS, thus making the law more strict.

As to "teens can't go there anyway", we all know how easy it is to circumvent the age checks on account signup (and there's no way to make them harder to circumvent without shutting off a large part of the world from signing up at all).
I moderate several A rated sims, we get 2-3 minors per week at least (mostly either bragging about it in their profiles and/or identified as such because they are clearly recognisable as such on voice, as well as through behaviour). During school vacations that goes up to 5+ per day. And that doesn't include child avatars, of which we catch maybe 1-2 per week at most, the majority of which apologise and switch to something more appropriate.

I wish there were ways to allow all those people, as long as they don't cause trouble, as many of them are probably very nice people to chat with, but it's simply too risky for us (and for LL as well, because of the legal implications) even though at least part of our A rated places restrict what goes on there to the level LL sets for M rated places).

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Did you know that Rod Humble, in a public interview a year or so ago, said that his son enjoyed Second Life.

His son was born in 2001.

Do the math, then next time you get an underager on your sim, send in an AR mentioning that you hope it wasn't Rod's kid.

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So if child/teen avis are such a trouble why do they exist and are accepted in the first place? Creators should not manufacture them anymore. Or if they are used by adults what is the problem anyways?

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jwenting wrote:

@Drake according to the access rules for A rated (and M rated, but people tend to forget that) land in SL you have to be 18 years old.

I'm trying to find where i said anything contrary to that, and i can't.

Based on that most sim owners, to avoid trouble, will demand all their visiting avatars appear to be at least 18 years old as well, hence the definition of "child avatar" includes "teen avatar" as well, de facto or de jure is irrelevant in that as the sim owners' rules extend the TOS, thus making the law more strict.

Again.. not seeing where i said anything different.

As to "teens can't go there anyway", we all know how easy it is to circumvent the age checks on account signup (and there's no way to make them harder to circumvent without shutting off a large part of the world from signing up at all).

And when I speak of "teens not being able to go there" I mean the ones that follow the rules. Because we all know that SL is a haven for paedos and children, right?

 

I moderate several A rated sims, we get 2-3 minors per week at least (mostly either bragging about it in their profiles and/or identified as such because they are clearly recognisable as such on voice, as well as through behaviour). During school vacations that goes up to 5+ per day. And that doesn't include child avatars, of which we catch maybe 1-2 per week at most, the majority of which apologise and switch to something more appropriate.

What sims are these? I will make sure never to go there. In 8 years on SL i have come across 3 underage people. What are you doing, advertising for them?

I wish there were ways to allow all those people, as long as they don't cause trouble, as many of them are probably very nice people to chat with, but it's simply too risky for us (and for LL as well, because of the legal implications) even though at least part of our A rated places restrict what goes on there to the level LL sets for M rated places).

Rght, cuz most bars and strip joints secretly think the same..

 

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I have not had many encounters with child avis. When I have though I have nearly always felt a bit uncomfortable. Mostly the cutesy language and the fact they look more like they are modelled on horror films than reality. But each to their own if rping a family is what they want to do then there are far worse rps.

Like for example the even fewer occassions you see child avis in paedophile groups. Regardless of any discussion some might want to make about this being a virtual environment, consenting adults etc the fact remains in many countries including my own depicting child sex is a serious criminal offence. Any sim owner in a country like my own would be reckless not to ban anyone involved in that sort of thing as soon as they are made aware.

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It's called paedophobia.
Well organized paedophobe rings operate in Second Life, grooming adults and exchanging pornography, some of it depicting obviously coerced girls as old as - oh, say about twenty-five.
Recently I visited a sim (in the guise of a just-turned-eighteen avatar) where grey-haired men with pot bellies were openly having sex with adult women. Whether or not there are real pensioners behind those geriatric avatars, we don't know. There's no doubt that all adult avatars are viewed with suspicion by many of us, however. The kind of sexual age play that these people engage in is often so deviant that any self-respecting child avatar would be embarrassed to witness it. And obviously the paedophobes themselves want their activities shielded from the scrutiny of innocent observers.
When someone acts nervous around child avatars, it's often a sign that they have something to hide.
I don't think these people should be persecuted for their sick fantasies, though. Just as long as no REAL adults are harmed.

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I'm going to echo some of what Drake said.

First off, what is it about your clubs that supposedly attracts these supposed minors?

I've been in SL going on seven years and am an avid profile perver and have never seen a self confessed minor with only a few exceptions and that was after the teen grid merge and it was on G land.  I have however read many profiles where people stated they role play teens or children.  Many of them however were in their Adult shape and acting like Adults at the time.

That said, yes I do know that teens do at times lie about their age.  I have had three people across seven years tell me privately that they were actually 17 in RL and I dealt with them appropriately.

I do agree that Teen and Child Ava's do not belong in the proximity of Adult Activities.

I also agree with those who run Adult Venues doing as LL suggested and "erring on the side of caution" because of all the possible ramifications.  Any Adult who can't understand the need for these Venue owners to do this really in my opinion needs to 'Grow Up.'

Personally, when I am in SL I have no desire to interact with "children."  I come here to engage with adults.  And while I respect someones right to RP a child or a teen, please respect my right to not find you where you don't belong and also my right to go somewhere else and not interact with you.  I don't hang out at your playgrounds.  Please stay out of mine.

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Awe Thor wrote:

Did you know that Rod Humble, in a public interview a year or so ago, said that his son enjoyed Second Life.

His son was born in 2001.

Do the math, then next time you get an underager on your sim, send in an AR mentioning that you hope it wasn't Rod's kid.

given that being under 16 he's not supposed to be in second life, as per the TOS, I'd indeed AR the kid. Given that LL doesn't allow anyone under 8 in M and A rated regions, and I visit those exclusively, I'd AR him even if he were 16.

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Hi all ^^

Not to meddle in a discussion as a young(er) member, but to be honest, I prefer NO interaction with child avatars. I dont see the point of adults posing as children in an environment that's clearly far beyond the mere "online game" like SmallWorlds or Farmville on Facebook. SL is a meeting place for MINDS, not just a mere online game...

I'm not scared of child avatars, I just dont see the point of interating with them, escpecially if one is frequenting the more mature side of Second Life...

My humble two cents, dont mind me :)

Mell

xxx

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SweetLadyMell wrote:

Hi all ^^

Not to meddle in a discussion as a young(er) member, but to be honest, I prefer NO interaction with child avatars. I dont see the point of adults posing as children in an environment that's clearly far beyond the mere "online game" like SmallWorlds or Farmville on Facebook. SL is a meeting place for MINDS, not just a mere online game...

I'm not scared of child avatars, I just dont see the point of interating with them, escpecially if one is frequenting the more
mature
side of Second Life...

My humble two cents, dont mind me
:)

Mell

xxx

SecondLife is a virtual world. I have several friends that RP as children in here. Crack Den has an awesome street gang of kids. 1920's berlin does as well, if i remember correctly. It's all about context.

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Yes, and adorable they can be too...in the given context. Of course, I frequent the more "mature" side of the world...so child avatars are "uncomfortable" to interact with for me...of course, I hope no offence was taken...

Mell

xxx

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SweetLadyMell wrote:

Yes, and adorable they can be too...
in the given context
. Of course, I frequent the more "mature" side of the world...so child avatars are "uncomfortable" to interact with for me...of course, I hope no offence was taken...

Mell

xxx

Crack Den is about as mature as you can get. When that gang of kids swarms you attacking , it is terrifying.

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Drake1 Nightfire wrote:

 

Crack Den is about as mature as you can get. When that gang of kids swarms you attacking , it is terrifying.

Yeah, it must be very worrying trying to AR all of them for being in an inappropriately violent drug-laden environment.

ETA: I did laugh at the risible use of the epithet "mature".

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Wow such a discussion. I didn't expect that one. :D

 

I realize that a lot of people use the argument that they want to escape from RL and the children there and don't want to deal with them in SL. This is both surprising and slightly shocking to me.. You can't ''pretend'' children don't exist though. Both IRL and ISL you will run into them and are expected to find a way to deal with this apparant big issue.

 

It is also interesting that people understand and accept when you want to play a furry,vampire,cyborn etc but when you want to play a child or teenager in SL it is frowned upon. I can't quite understand the logic behind that.

 

I am furthermore happy to hear that most of the posters agree that there are no pedophiles behind these child avatars.

 

Last but not least I want to pop the question and ask how you all feel about TEENAGE avatars?

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Nielso wrote:

Wow such a discussion. I didn't expect that one.
:D

 

I realize that a lot of people use the argument that they want to escape from RL and the children there and don't want to deal with them in SL. This is both surprising and slightly shocking to me.. You can't ''pretend'' children don't exist though. Both IRL and ISL you will run into them and are expected to find a way to deal with this apparant big issue.

 

It is also interesting that people understand and accept when you want to play a furry,vampire,cyborn etc but when you want to play a child or teenager in SL it is frowned upon. I can't quite understand the logic behind that.

 

I am furthermore happy to hear that most of the posters agree that there are no pedophiles behind these child avatars.

 

Last but not least I want to pop the question and ask how you all feel about TEENAGE avatars?

My avatar, I've been told, passes for anything between teenage and late-20s, depending on the eye of the beholder.  I tend to dress in pyjamas most of the time though, and not slutwear or cheer leader outfits, or 'school uniform'.

But are you referring to those teenage avatars that go around looking like pr1ck teasers? As I know several avatars who take this form, and who they are in real life (and a heck of a lot of them really are men in their late-30s/early-40s) I personally don't feel anything about them at all. If you hang where there are a lot of them, they do tend to look like they've been cloned from one cell. Quite amusing to think though that some blokes are quite turned on by this kind of thing.

I lived through those teen years, and wouldn't want to relive them. Wore the school uniform and PE kit for real (was not a cheerleader, but could wield a mean hockey stick - down boys !!! :matte-motes-big-grin-wink: )

A bunch of us used to take great delight in teasing our biology teacher too, back in the day, sitting on a small bench at the front of the lab almost showing our knickers, but heaven help him if he had stepped over that line and even acknowledged our existence except to throw our exercise books back at us.

Real teens need protecting, they're not grown ups, even though they might act like it.

But back to SL. explain further, with photos if you have them, of the kind of teenagers you might be referring to. I don't want to be jumping to any conclusions here. Some people dislike short avatars (short for SL that is, I am 6'8" apparently), and assume they are teens, when they are not.

I would not want to be a teenager again, not even as roleplay, although it was incredibly enjoyable sharing teenage music experiences with a chap my age in SL in a skybox.

But maybe some folk do enjoy being a teenagers again. And lets face it, you can be exactly what you want to be in Second Life; baby, toddler, teenager, teapot. What does it matter what anyone else thinks?

If you want a more specific answer, be more specific.

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Nielso wrote:

Wow such a discussion. I didn't expect that one.
:D

 

I realize that a lot of people use the argument that they want to escape from RL and the children there and don't want to deal with them in SL. This is both surprising and slightly shocking to me.. You can't ''pretend'' children don't exist though. Both IRL and ISL you will run into them and are expected to find a way to deal with this apparant big issue.

 

Only speaking for myself here.

I don't pretend that children don't exist, RL or SL.  It's a matter of where I would and would not expect to find them.  I've encountered them at New Babbage.  One in particular had the RP down so well it was impressive.  But if I'm at an "R" rated venue, at those places I do not want to encounter them.

 


Nielso wrote:

 

It is also interesting that people understand and accept when you want to play a furry,vampire,cyborn etc but when you want to play a child or teenager in SL it is frowned upon. I can't quite understand the logic behind that.

 


 

I support everyone's right to RP as they choose within the boundaries of the TOS.  However that does not mean I condone or support all RP.  It can be a difficult position though because there are some things I disagree strongly with and if you engage in I will probably not associate with you.  For instance, I have zero tolerance for 'physical abuse.'

 


Nielso wrote:

 

 I am furthermore happy to hear that most of the posters agree that there are no pedophiles behind these child avatars.

 

I would never say that.  I don't doubt that there are some in SL.  I just don't think they are rampant to the degree some people claim

 


Nielso wrote:

 

Last but not least I want to pop the question and ask how you all feel about TEENAGE avatars?

 

See my responses above.

 

 

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