The fear of child avatars

[Nielso]

Hey everyone. I wanted to discuss something with other members of SL in the hope I can understand this better. I've beeen playing SL since 2007 without any long breaks. My avatars varied from teenage boys to adult men. I never did any wolf/furry RP or Sci-fi trooper avatars though. Today I only want to discuss about 1 type of avatars, the children one.

 

Evererywhere I go, be it a RP sim or not a RP sim I see a huge fear and hatred to child avatars. As if it is bad luck to have a child avatar on your sim. This mainly applies to RP sims though, as regular sim owners tend not to care toooo much as long as you buy something from them.

On RPG sims however the fear of child avatars is incredibly high. It could be a mature-rated sim even and most of the time the 1st rule listed is something like ''No child avatars allowed''. Now I THINK this is an american thing. LL, an american company seems to feed this fear to it's residents by ruling and rumors of simowners banner or having their sim shut down after child avatars RPed there.

SO to take away some of this fear I want to clarify something. Players that have a child avatar are /NOT/ pedophiles. They don't get their rocks of staring at their avatar, they don't engage in ageplay, they don't spread porn. Really, they don't. Some of the people that have a child avatar I know turned out to be great people IRL that are now close friends of mine. SO I implore the frightened community to stop being so meek and understand for yourself, experience for yourself that people that play child avatars are also normal, regular player, enjoying the virtual world that's out there.

Coming back to the RP sims. I think it is utter nonesense why virtually no RP sim accepts child avatars. I ask sim owners why, and all the time the answer is the same: ''... Affraid of ban... - don't want the sim to shut down.. - .. It will attract ageplay... '' etc. etc. But none of these answers are true or based on a rational explanation. They simply won't allow child avatars because other sim owners don't either and they are afraid to get in trouble, even though they wouldn't. It is frustrating beyond anything for me. I am a sworn RPer, I love to RP in SL. Be it as a teenager or an adult, to me it doesn't matter but I want to be ABLE to do both, everywhere.

I understand it's a sim owner's decision whether to allow child avatars or not, but at least let them come up with a REAL reason/motivation. Something I can understand.

 

Now the floor is open to discussion. Do you agree with what I think or do you have a different opinion? As long as you motivate your answer and aren't writing out of the fear I spoke of I am very thankful that you take the time to reply.

[iCade]

I have nothing against child avatars, I quite enjoy a conversation with them every now and then when I happpen upon one in a store I'm at.

However, if I would pay $295 of my hard earned real life cash for a private estate monthly and would spend most of the time I am not sleeping or at work to build up a roleplay sim and maintain it then I, too wouldn't go anywhere near a grey area like the scenario you put up. I simply would not want to risk all that hard work and money.

Furthermore, in your OP you state "...but at least let them come up with a REAL reason/motivation. Something I can understand." as if you are entitled to it. Here's the deal. As soon as you pay Linden Lab for a plot of land, whether its a 512sqm plot of mainland, or an entire private estate, you are the king. You can ban anyone for ANY reason or NO reason at all. No questions asked. None of those landlords even HAD to answer your question, but they did. It's truly not your place at all to a) demand answers b) to demand BETTER answers.

While understandable, it's quite rude how you treated those land lords answers simple because you do not share that view.

With that said, I encourage you to buy your own private estate, to spend the initial purchase cost of $250+, the monthly  tier of $295 and the dozens of hours weekly you will need to set it all up, to maintain it and...wait..you'll barely have that much time left to even rp!

As an end note: Linden Lab can ban you for any reason. Or no reason at all.

[Innula Zenovka]

Most of my experience of sim management involves Adult sims, where we certainly don't want child avatars not only because their presence in parts of the sim would certainly be against ToS but also because most visitors find the presence of child avatars on an adult sim as inappropriate as would they find the presence of  children in an RL strip club.   Since the presence of child avatars tends to make  the visitors whom  the sims seek to attract  feel uncomfortable, asking people to change into adult avatars before visitng the sims seems a no-brainer to me.

As to other RP environments, the explanation I've heard when this has come up in the past -- and I can well believe it -- is that too many child avatars refuse to RP.   That is, they refuse to play the role of a medieval (or whatever) child but, instead, stick with their own preferred RP that involves making a nuisance of themselves and talking in that infuriating "likkle speak" or whatever it's called (in RL, it would surely indicate a visit to a speech therapist, I think).   

I quite see that's an unfair stereotype, but that's the way most of us encounter child avatars -- making a nuisance of themselves by insisting on imposing their RP on people who aren't interested and just want to get on with shopping or looking at an interesting sim or whatever, and who don't want to talk to bratty children with speech impediments any more than they want to interact with Gorean blokes in kilts galumphing round the hair store looking for braids, with a naked kajia in tow (literally)and  insisting on being called "Master",  or with spampires.    

My suggestion would be  to leave the child avatar at home when you want to visit RP sims.   That's what my Gor friends do when they visit Sci Fi sims, for example -- leave the Gor stuff behind and dress and behave appropriately to the sim. Or contact the sim owner, explain you understand his or her concerns and ask what would be appropriate dress and behaviour for a child in that particular sort of RP.

[Alicia Sautereau]

It`s not the fear of child avatars, it`s the fear of idiots on a sensitive subject and LL`s stupid punishment wich could affect the sim owner even if it`s not their fault (if they act at all).

[Marianne Little]

Land owners do as they please on their land, but Linden Lab is the overlord of us all. If simowners should be reported for having ageplay in their sim, they could very well find their sim shur down and their account banned. It would be a long and tedious way to go with LL to clean their reputation. They would come back to a RP group in uproar, wild rumors escalating, many players already left, if they have merchants in an OOC area they would have to deal with complaints and demands to get the rent back for the period the sim is closing and so on, and so on. Same if they rent out skyboxes to tenants. This risk just to let persons they don't know at all have their pretendy funtime there for free? Uh-oh don't think so.

Disclaimer: I don't say that the roleplay reports need to be true at all. But SL is full of busybodies sticking their long nose in and trying to play "moral police". I am sure most child avatars behave as children, it is the few that ruin for all.

Also I second "Iccle speak" and the thought that children don't have to follow any rules and just be a nuisance. Not willing to accept any RP dicipline, failing to understand that the era/period they play in don't go soft on obnoxious children.. When faced with this, they go "I'm just a liddle kidd" in OOC too. Many are child avatars just to be a pain in the @ss. Not all of course, but many enough that child avatars are associated with too much trouble.

[Awe Thor]

---

Nielso wrote:

 

Evererywhere I go, be it a RP sim or not a RP sim I see a huge fear and hatred to child avatars.

---

You are obviously an ESLer, since you demonstrate the most indicative symptom of cultural semi-literacy by using the wrong preposition, ie "to", rather than "of".

You then compound your trolling - intentional or otherwise - by expanding the title of your thread to include hatred as well as fear of child avatars. Although I am concerned that you don't actually understand fully the meanings of these words, I'm going to assume for the moment that you mean what you say, but do you mean to say that you see both of these emotions in the same avatars, or that one set of avatars fear you, and a completely separate collection of avatars hate you? Your complaint is worthless without further explanation, which I would not encourage you to pursue.

You also, later in your post, confuse ageplay with sexual ageplay, which is a really stupid thing to do.

All in all, your OP is not merely a waste of space, but an invitation for those, who, like me, find child avatars ridiculous and annoying (no, I neither fear them, nor hate them; I feel the same towards them as I do children running around in pubs) to have their opinions confirmed, that those who play child avatars are unable to express themselves coherently, even when they are not pretending to lisp.

[Drake1 Nightfire]

Do we really need to hash this over again and again and again?

[Syo Emerald]

People like to keep their RP as boundless and open as it can be. Thats why a lot RP sims are either on moderate or adult sims. A childavatar is generally allowed to go on every kind of sim, but it appears strange to many, if the meet them on adult sims. They just don't want to get in trouble, even if the avatar is just standing around. Someone could come to misleading conclusions, just because furniture with sexual animations might be around the corner.

The other reason I can imagine is, that childavatars creep people out or go on their nerves. It might not always be the case, but I found all people who roleplayed children often as highly anoying, especially when they started babbeling in some wanna be cute way.

[beethros Karas]

I am a landlord and i allow child avatars.

(I beg them to pick it up when they log off - or to set it in non movement)

so my land stays lag less.

Child Avatars are a great project and they are a really great profitable project ensuring sales.

(plus traffic)

-I dont like them though.

The fact i dont like them, it doesnt mean i dont like the people who own them.

Im glad other people also dont like child avies and so i am not the only one.

(have you seen their display picture in MP? brrr)

People dont like them  cause of many reasons, but only one is the main:

Because Its like a big getting unfair advantage of all those women who cant make a child.

Of all those who love real childs and cant see the above advantage.

And when all these people think of that when they see it, it brings 100% negative feelings.

(that goes for men, women arent always able to see that, just because their nature enstict works here.)

Thats my oppinion why people dontlike child avies..

 

Thank you for make me feel im not alone.

Thank you for let me announce my oppinion.

 

 

 

 

 

[Drake1 Nightfire]

---

beethros Karas wrote:

I am a landlord and I allow child avatars.

(I beg them to pick it up when they log off - or to set it in non movement)

so my land stays lag less.

I think, if I can decipher what you wrote, that you are talking about prim babies not child avatars. There is nothing left behind when a child av logs off.

 

Child Avatars are a great project and they are a really great profitable project ensuring sales.

(plus traffic)

-I don't like them though.

The fact I don't like them, it doesn't mean I don't like the people who own them.

Yup.. Prim babies.

Im glad other people also don't like child avies and so I am not the only one.

(have you seen their display picture in MP? brrr)

I think a lot of people don't like prim babies.

People don't like them  cause of many reasons, but only one is the main:

Because Its like a big getting unfair advantage of all those women who can't make a child.

HUH?

Of all those who love real childs and can't see the above advantage.

And when all these people think of that when they see it, it brings 100% negative feelings.

So, women who can't have kids get pissed at people with prim babies because of jealousy?

(that goes for men, women aren't always able to see that, just because their nature instinct works here.)

That's sexist.

That's my opinion why people don't like child avies..

You mean prim babies.

 

Thank you for make me feel im not alone.

Thank you for let me announce my opinion.

---

 

 

 

 

[beethros Karas]

p.s.

I am an oldbie...

I know what im doing.

What i dkn is correct English.

So, i pass the exams and i AGREE with all the answers above about Pedofiles.

I never wanted to encourage that when i said i allow child avatars.

I allow them because:

a)

I want to believe in freedom and in NO rasism and so my land accepting all LL Allows.

(means i want to believe the people who have a child avie are cute people with love feelings and smile faces.)

 

b)

I am oldbie in virtual and almost IRL and so i have not much to loose in case they bring me drama;

And so im willing to take risks since we are in hard crisis periods.

(usually these kind of ppl bring drama)

c)

Due to my huge exp I have an enstict alert and also a lot of friends in alert to understund "who is who"

and so we will kick those ppl out and report them of course.

( i never face one though in all my years - maybe because i simply dont ever had an "A" land.)

So... if any of these people happens to read my answer and want to come to rent ot my land..

BEWARE..

Dont mess with beethros...

GO AWAY.

thank you.

[beethros Karas]

Yes im sorry.. i was lost and comfused. I was ment prim babies.

-But my oppinion for allow them both  (prim babies and child avatars) is the same.

I allow them, and i agree they have the right to exist as we all do.

[Syo Emerald]

Because Its like a big getting unfair advantage of all those women who cant make a child.

 

Wait....what?

Its unfair to have a virtual avatar shaped and dressed like a child because some female stranger on the internet MIGTH have reproduction problems?! :smileyfrustrated:

Are you serious on that?

Do moviemakers/videogamecreators take an unfair advantage of women who can't have children by having children in their visual products? Wow...I don't want to know how you would jump then on women who dare to show up in a public space with her children....because...you know ALL the milion women who might get hurt by seeing others can have children!

Seriously, thats silly.

Next thing you tell me I'm not allowed to have a virtual pet, because their might be someone who is allergic to animalhair and can't have a cat or dog because of that.

If I would meet someone who gets offended because of such things....well then they deserve it.

[Awe Thor]

I think that traffic lights are unfair on people who suffer from colour blindness.

[Perrie Juran]

---

Awe Thor wrote:

I think that traffic lights are unfair on people who suffer from colour blindness.

---

I think it's unfair that (at least in the U.S.) the red light is always on top. 

They should vary the placement just for the fun it would cause.

[Griffin Ceawlin]

---

Marianne Little wrote:

... failing to understand that the era/period they play in don't go soft on obnoxious children..

---

Those were the days, huh. "Children should be seen and not heard."

@OP: There are RL restaurants that won't seat people with children in tow. I'm all for it. Nothing ruins a good meal like a screaming child.

[Nefertiti Nefarious]

I agree with the RP problems ... if a person with a child avatar isn't going to act in-period or in-culture thry don't need to be on the sim. 

 

On the good side: I was on an 1880s Western sim that had several child avatars doing totally acceptable RP activity, like hanging around the livery stable watching the blacksmith, helping out in the general store, etc.  and they said Yes Ma'am and No Ma'am like respectful youngsters should.

 

On the bad side: that stupid babytalk carried into chat! 

And the overall brattiness of some of them.

[Nielso]

I thank those who have contributed so far in a good way. The majority of the posts are constructive and honest.

Perhaps I should have been a bit more clear what I mean by the definition of ''child avatar''.

 

To me it means an avatar between the ages of 12 -17. A teenager.  I agree that really young avatars (like 5 or younger even) have no place in an adult sim.

 

I also agree that when you visit a RP sim you should dress accordingly, so it fits the theme and you should adjust your speech to your role. If you are a 13 year old girl as your avatar then you should leave that horrible toddler language at home ^^.  The thing that disturbs me most is that on almost every RP sim it seems that life begins at 18 years old. People are born 18 years old. Anything below the age of 18 is foreign, and what is foreign we don't understand, what we don't understand we don't like and don't want.

It somehow bugs me that on let's say a Western sim (using the example I saw earlier in this topic) won't be allowing children to RP there. It would be weird as children wouldn't exist in that world then. To me it would seem more than acceptable to have children RP there too as long as they play their role correctly. (No toddler language etc) and back then the children would be respectful towards their elders/parents.

All I am asking is to step away out of this fear bubble for a second and look at things with more realism. LL has allowed teenagers 16-17 to join our grid. Why don't we allow them to be their RL selves when they visit us? Or even worse, why don't we allow our virtual selves to be 16-17 on our sims when there are people among us that have that RL age?

 

As said before, it might be a cultural thing though. America is the land of possibilities. Everything is allowed, everyone is free. You can own guns, you can play GTA V and torture people to death etc. But allowing a child avatar join a medieval/western/scifi etc sim is forbidden and taboo.

[Syo Emerald]

A childavatar is not a teenager. Child means child. And the age concerns already mentioned work for all characters displayed as underage.

[Griffin Ceawlin]

---

Nielso wrote:

As said before, it might be a cultural thing though. America is the land of possibilities. Everything is allowed, everyone is free. You can own guns, you can play GTA V and

torture people to death

etc.

---

I must have missed where torture, even to death, was allowed.

[Madeline Blackbart]

---

Griffin Ceawlin wrote:

---

Nielso wrote:

As said before, it might be a cultural thing though. America is the land of possibilities. Everything is allowed, everyone is free. You can own guns, you can play GTA V and

torture people to death

etc.

---

I must have missed where torture, even to death, was allowed.

---

Me to. I was born here in NJ. Maybe NJ is just to liberal for the torture thing? But I live in PA now and I'm pretty sure torture still isn't allow here either. We do all own guns though. Hunting is rather popular. Though not hunting people....last I checked.

[Griffin Ceawlin]

Living in NJ could be torturous to some... :smileyvery-happy:

[Marigold Devin]

---

Nielso wrote:

Hey everyone. I wanted to discuss something with other members of SL in the hope I can understand this better. I've beeen playing SL since 2007 without any long breaks. My avatars varied from teenage boys to adult men. I never did any wolf/furry RP or Sci-fi trooper avatars though. Today I only want to discuss about 1 type of avatars, the children one.

 

Evererywhere I go, be it a RP sim or not a RP sim I see a huge fear and hatred to child avatars. As if it is bad luck to have a child avatar on your sim. This mainly applies to RP sims though, as regular sim owners tend not to care toooo much as long as you buy something from them.

On RPG sims however the fear of child avatars is incredibly high. It could be a mature-rated sim even and most of the time the 1st rule listed is something like ''No child avatars allowed''. Now I THINK this is an american thing. LL, an american company seems to feed this fear to it's residents by ruling and rumors of simowners banner or having their sim shut down after child avatars RPed there.

SO to take away some of this fear I want to clarify something. Players that have a child avatar are /NOT/ pedophiles. They don't get their rocks of staring at their avatar, they don't engage in ageplay, they don't spread porn. Really, they don't. Some of the people that have a child avatar I know turned out to be great people IRL that are now close friends of mine. SO I implore the frightened community to stop being so meek and understand for yourself, experience for yourself that people that play child avatars are also normal, regular player, enjoying the virtual world that's out there.

Coming back to the RP sims. I think it is utter nonesense why virtually no RP sim accepts child avatars. I ask sim owners why, and all the time the answer is the same: ''... Affraid of ban... - don't want the sim to shut down.. - .. It will attract ageplay... '' etc. etc. But none of these answers are true or based on a rational explanation. They simply won't allow child avatars because other sim owners don't either and they are afraid to get in trouble, even though they wouldn't. It is frustrating beyond anything for me. I am a sworn RPer, I love to RP in SL. Be it as a teenager or an adult, to me it doesn't matter but I want to be ABLE to do both, everywhere.

I understand it's a sim owner's decision whether to allow child avatars or not, but at least let them come up with a REAL reason/motivation. Something I can understand.

 

Now the floor is open to discussion. Do you agree with what I think or do you have a different opinion? As long as you motivate your answer and aren't writing out of the fear I spoke of I am very thankful that you take the time to reply.

---

 

 

Well, its a big old world, and so sim owners who decide not to welcome child avatars don't have to have any reason at all.

Forget the issue of sexual ageplay too, and just think about it from this angle. Some publicans in real life choose not to run family-friendly venues, simply because a lot of adults want the company of adults, a break from children. Yes, we know behind the child avatar there is unlikely to be a real child, but that person is choosing to take the form of a child, roleplaying as a child, and a lot of adults just don't want to have to join in with the roleplay.  And a child avatar acting like a grown up is just as weird as a child avatar who communicates in 'ickle speak'.

But there are lots of people inworld who do not assume that child avatars are all pedophiles or passing round porn *cringes*, and I am absolutely sure the majority of people generally are not participating in any unlawful activities, but there will always be a few bad apples to spoil the whole barrell. People are people, whether in real life or in Second Life. 

If the fear of child avatars were so incredibly high, Linden Lab would have had them all removed by now, and that would be as unfair as removing all the furry folk, and all the Goreans, and yes, we've had similar discussions many times over the years, and this emotive subject will run and run.

I say don't knock it till you've tried it though, to anyone who ever was a child in real life, to try being a child in Second Life for a day/week. Its an interesting experience.  I have a couple of child avatar alts and on the whole people have been incredibly welcoming to me. I stay in character, I don't talk 'ickle speak', but I draw on a time in my life when I was a certain age/certain ages, and on the rare occasion that someone does act inappropriately towards me, unless they are exceedingly abusive (in which case I have reported them), I act like I would have at that age, and pretend I just don't realise they are being inappropriate, and walk away to a more pleasant place.

At Burning Life a few years ago, the child avatars inworld had set up a rather marvellous transmographier.  It was such fun, and a very positive experience indeed to walk around for the rest of Burning Life as a child avatar with my new child avatar buddies picking up fun free gifts. 

And to you, Nielso, I'd suggest you don your younger avatar or a child av appearance and go exploring. Keep a tally of reactions from other avatars around you, and you'll see most of them are positive.

 

 

 

 

[Amethyst Jetaime]

To me a child avatar is any avatar whose appearance makes them look underage for their species, be it human, furry, fairy, vamp etc.  I also realize that the adults of some species  may be short and have young faces but that alone doesn't make them child avatars.  Fairies come to mind as falling into this category.

I am not afraid of child avatars, but I don't want to see them in places where children wouldn't be in RL.  I don't want to have to listen to one talking in that annoying nonsense way some do, I don't want to be pestered about adopting them and paying for their SL (this has happened to me on a number of occasions). I don't want to be around one that is always trying to be the center of attention by acting 'too cute' or like a brat all the time.

When I owned venues they were all for adults, so child avatars were not welcome because children don't belong in those places in RL and it disturbs other guests to see them there and ruined the atmosphere for them.  They were however welcome if they changed into an adult avatar.  So it is their choice.  I myself always change attire or avatars to appear appropriate for the venue out of respect for the other people there, so I don't think that is an unreasonable expectation. Those that refuse but still insist on being allowed in are just self centered brats IMO.

I have no problem with child avatars that talk normally and are well behaved and that are in appropriate settings, such as family or child oriented venues or out shopping in stores etc.  In a world where you can be anything you want to be, you have to accept what limitations may be imposed on you so you don't bork someone else's experiences. 

I think a lot of people feel the same way I do and you mistake their personal preferences for fear.

 

[Dresden Ceriano]

I neither fear nor hate child avatars.  In fact, I much prefer them to the real thing, simply because I can mute them without needing to have duct tape handy.

...Dres