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Sven Woodside

false advertisement

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So I have been a dj in sl for two years.My av is all laq and it gets lots of compliments.So i go to this unnamed club something to do with a storm.Anyways i ask if they are hiring and they say yes we are.So great i ask and recieve an app.I read it all it looks standard to me nothing special so i fill it out,I then send it to the owner.She likes it and wants to interview me.so she said tp me over to your place and ill interview you.I said ok cause things were winding down at my club.So she pops in and says is this your club?I said yes.She said oh we dont hire anyone who owns their own club.WT And so an argument took place.She can be very verbally abusive,Just a heads up to the dj's who are filing out apps waisting their time.

I have never heard of such a thing ,if anyone else has experienced this let me know!!

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Yes, I've seen it before.  I've also have seen clubs forbid staff from even working in any other clubs.

They want complete control over your working and your complete loyalty to their club.  They also want you to be available for fill ins as much as possible.  That would be OK if they paid their staff a decent salary instead of not paying at all or even making you pay them by taking a percentage of your tips..   I've never seen it work for retaining good staff either.   The clubs that have these policies generally have high turn over.  Good people may work there briefly but they are gone as soon as something better comes up.  A club owner has to earn the loyalty of their staff, it can't be forced.

The problem is that some club owners think they are doing a huge favor to Dj's and hosts allowing them to work there.  But I disagree.  If someone is good at what they do they can always find work.  The best ones don't even have to look, they have club owners coming to them and offering work and some even pay or guarantee a minimum per set..

 

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I don't see anything that appears to be false advertisement.  Just because you filled out an application does not guarantee you a job.  An applicant can be refused for any number of reasons, and conflict of interest seems to be a very good reason to me.

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I agree with Kenbro. From the information in your post, I don't see any false advertising anywhere.

If you think about it, I makes good sense not to hire people who have their own clubs. People who have their own clubs want them to do well, and good places to get visitors from are other clubs. What better way is there to do that than by working in other clubs and letting it be known where you'll be DJing on your next gig?

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Phil Deakins wrote:

I agree with Kenbro. From the information in your post, I don't see any false advertising anywhere.

If you think about it, I makes good sense not to hire people who have their own clubs. People who have their own clubs want them to do well, and good places to get visitors from are other clubs. What better way is there to do that than by working in other clubs and letting it be known where you'll be DJing on your next gig?

It really is considered to be bad form to steal patrons away from a club where you work or actively promote one club while working for another.  Those that do it find themselves out of a job very fast as a lot of times the patrons themselves will report it to the owner.  Club owners and staff from various clubs do talk to each other too and a bad reputation for this kind of thing soon gets around resulting in not getting any work.

However there is nothing wrong with a DJ or Live Performer having a group where they post notices of their gigs or discreetly give out schedules when asked for one.  Most club owners don't object to that as long as the DJ does it where ever he works and promotes your club exclusively while working there.  This way, the DJ is just as likely to bring new patrons to your club.  In fact I always ask when hiring a DJ if they have a DJ group and so do many club owners.

Realistically there are more people that want to club than one club can hold at any given time.  A smart club owner realizes this and acts accordingly by not being overly competitive.  It alienates patrons who like to circulate among a few clubs.   I also submit that if a DJ can so easily talk your patrons into abandoning your club completely for another, they were not your patrons to start with and maybe you need to look at the way you run your club.

A lot of DJ's in SL have their own clubs where they DJ a few nights a week but work in other clubs too. They are professionals that do not promote their club  on the dime of another club owner.   Patrons can get bored with the same DJ's all the time and allowing DJ's to circulate between several clubs actually helps keep things fresh in yours.  In fact this is a wide spread practice.

I agree there was no false advertising as a club owner can hire who ever they wish at whatever terms they wish and a potential employee can accept those terms or walk away.  However I do believe, based on my own considerable 6 years experience over the years in owning a couple major successful clubs, some smaller ones and managing or consulting with others that it is a bad policy to restrict staff to your club only.  My SL partner has almost 8 years experience as a club owner and DJ agrees.  If a DJ gives you reason to regret it you simply fire them and find someone that is more professional. 

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I completely agree that it's bad form, but, unfortunately, some people are 'bad form' incarnate :)

DJs and entertainers are different. They have to have information on where they entertain in their profiles and group notices, so you'll get no argument from on that score :). But it's club owners that we are talking about here. The OP is a club owner, and club owners want to attract patrons to their clubs. So it makes good sense not to want a club owner DJing or entertaining, especially if the employing club is struggling to keep its head above water.

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Can i ask why you have Mama Allpa listed in the description of your club? Do people really go to clubs to get pregnant? What has SL devolved to?

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Drake1 Nightfire wrote:

Can i ask why you have Mama Allpa listed in the description of your club? Do people really go to clubs to get pregnant? What has SL devolved to?

Maybe talking tummies are welcome at his club.

There are many where they are not.

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Amethyst Jetaime wrote:That would be OK if they paid their staff a decent salary instead of not paying at all or even making you pay them by taking a percentage of your tips..


This right here is why I stopped working as a dancer. The whole control freak "we own you" attitude really turned me off. It's also why I won't help club owners make profit splitting tipjars. Back when I did it, we all rezzed our own tipjars, and we used to give a portion of our tips to the club, but it was all voluntary and on the honor system.. and if you couldn't afford it, it wasn't a big thing. We were a team, and a group of friends.

 

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She is absolutly right and its VERY common that people don't hire people that are competitors to their own business. How should she now you are really loyal and doing your best and not advertise your own stuff?

In an addition to that...I wouldn't have hired you, if I would be in the same situation, speaking from what I saw here. Your writing is a pain for the eyes, because the space tap seems to be your personal enemie. Second you brag about looking good, which is not only unnecessary for the context, but also not true, since wearing a famous brand (and only one brand) is often just the difference from looking good.

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How do they know any DJ does not have a club owning alt?  How do they know any DJ is not friends with a club owner they would ruin their own reputation for?

 

At the end of the day if you don't try very hard then you will ruin your own reputation, be a poor advertisement for your own club and what kind of patrons are so desperate to get out of there that a bad performance would steal them away?

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Anaiya Arnold wrote:

How do they know any DJ does not have a club owning alt?  How do they know any DJ is not friends with a club owner they would ruin their own reputation for?

 

At the end of the day if you don't try very hard then you will ruin your own reputation, be a poor advertisement for your own club and what kind of patrons are so desperate to get out of there that a bad performance would steal them away?

Sure you won't ever know for sure, but if you can avoid it...why not?

And I don't see turning down this guys application is bad reputation. She saved herself from a male dramaqueen.

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Sven Woodside wrote:

So I have been a dj in sl for two years.My av is all laq and it gets lots of compliments.So i go to this unnamed club something to do with a storm.Anyways i ask if they are hiring and they say yes we are.So great i ask and recieve an app.I read it all it looks standard to me nothing special so i fill it out,I then send it to the owner.She likes it and wants to interview me.so she said tp me over to your place and ill interview you.I said ok cause things were winding down at my club.So she pops in and says is this your club?I said yes.She said oh we dont hire anyone who owns their own club.WT And so an argument took place.She can be very verbally abusive,Just a heads up to the dj's who are filing out apps waisting their time.

I have never heard of such a thing ,if anyone else has experienced this let me know!!

A club owner who is threatened by a dj that plays at other clubs needs to re-evalute their business. If you have a dj group as another poster said, all clubs you dj at could benefit if you send out notices where you are dj'ing within your group. Some large compnies in RL will do something similar to promote one of their smaller companies. A little competition can't hurt.

I see nothing wrong with you mentioning your av and looks. This is a visual world, just because you are spinning doesn't mean people aren't looking too. I also find nothing wrong with your verbiage. Some replies you received were more of a personal attack on how you mentioned your looks and something about your typing. That is silly, if you read through the posts I see many grammatical errors and people that have replied on this thread have yapped about how wonderful they look in other threads.

I think you got some good advice from some experienced people here. Those are the posts I would take and think about what their messages were. I would not waste my time arguing with someone over an application, it's not worth your time. Don't stoop to their level either and publically air out your differences. Good luck.

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You have mistaken what's been said in this thread. He didn't not get the job because he has a group for DJing. He failed to get the job because he is a club owner; i.e. a competitor. There's a world of difference.

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Phil Deakins wrote:

You have mistaken what's been said in this thread. He didn't not get the job because he has a group for DJing. He failed to get the job because he is a club owner; i.e. a competitor. There's a world of difference.

I know that, I didn't misread. Maybe my reply didn't convey that? He is ALSO a dj not just a club owner. I think I clarified that in my reply. Maybe you have mistaken my reply.

Here is part of what I wrote in my reply "A club owner who is threatened by a dj that plays at other clubs needs to re-evalute their business." I didn't think I need to add anything else since his OP explained he was also a club owner.

 

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Malanya wrote:


Sven Woodside wrote:

So I have been a dj in sl for two years.My av is all laq and it gets lots of compliments.So i go to this unnamed club something to do with a storm.Anyways i ask if they are hiring and they say yes we are.So great i ask and recieve an app.I read it all it looks standard to me nothing special so i fill it out,I then send it to the owner.She likes it and wants to interview me.so she said tp me over to your place and ill interview you.I said ok cause things were winding down at my club.So she pops in and says is this your club?I said yes.She said oh we dont hire anyone who owns their own club.WT And so an argument took place.She can be very verbally abusive,Just a heads up to the dj's who are filing out apps waisting their time.

I have never heard of such a thing ,if anyone else has experienced this let me know!!

A club owner who is threatened by a dj that plays at other clubs needs to re-evalute their business. If you have a dj group as another poster said, all clubs you dj at could benefit if you send out notices where you are dj'ing within your group. Some large compnies in RL will do something similar to promote one of their smaller companies. A little competition can't hurt.

I see nothing wrong with you mentioning your av and looks. This is a visual world, just because you are spinning doesn't mean people aren't looking too. I also find nothing wrong with your verbiage. Some replies you received were more of a personal attack on how you mentioned your looks and something about your typing. That is silly, if you read through the posts I see many grammatical errors and people that have replied on this thread have yapped about how wonderful they look in other threads.

I think you got some good advice from some experienced people here. Those are the posts I would take and think about what their messages were. I would not waste my time arguing with someone over an application, it's not worth your time. Don't stoop to their level either and publically air out your differences. Good luck.

I'm glad to see you haven't lost your touch.  I mean, why just give your opinion on a subject, when you can go out of your way to belittle the opinions of others in the process?

...Dres

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Dresden Ceriano wrote:


Malanya wrote:


Sven Woodside wrote:

So I have been a dj in sl for two years.My av is all laq and it gets lots of compliments.So i go to this unnamed club something to do with a storm.Anyways i ask if they are hiring and they say yes we are.So great i ask and recieve an app.I read it all it looks standard to me nothing special so i fill it out,I then send it to the owner.She likes it and wants to interview me.so she said tp me over to your place and ill interview you.I said ok cause things were winding down at my club.So she pops in and says is this your club?I said yes.She said oh we dont hire anyone who owns their own club.WT And so an argument took place.She can be very verbally abusive,Just a heads up to the dj's who are filing out apps waisting their time.

I have never heard of such a thing ,if anyone else has experienced this let me know!!

A club owner who is threatened by a dj that plays at other clubs needs to re-evalute their business. If you have a dj group as another poster said, all clubs you dj at could benefit if you send out notices where you are dj'ing within your group. Some large compnies in RL will do something similar to promote one of their smaller companies. A little competition can't hurt.

I see nothing wrong with you mentioning your av and looks. This is a visual world, just because you are spinning doesn't mean people aren't looking too. I also find nothing wrong with your verbiage. Some replies you received were more of a personal attack on how you mentioned your looks and something about your typing. That is silly, if you read through the posts I see many grammatical errors and people that have replied on this thread have yapped about how wonderful they look in other threads.

I think you got some good advice from some experienced people here. Those are the posts I would take and think about what their messages were. I would not waste my time arguing with someone over an application, it's not worth your time. Don't stoop to their level either and publically air out your differences. Good luck.

I'm glad to see you haven't lost your touch.  I mean, why just give your opinion on a subject, when you can go out of your way to belittle the opinions of others in the process?

...Dres

Well Dres, I am glad to see you haven't lost your touch of posting after me even if it's the only post you make to the thread so you can do the same as you are accusing me of. Belittling people, please, read some of your posts and don't worry about mine. I am flattered how you follow me though. :)

You wouldn't know the definition of hypocrypte, now would you?

I am counting down now....

 

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Griffin Ceawlin wrote:

Some clubs/owners are very competitive. Something as simple as a patron wearing a tag from another club could get them booted. Oh, well.

Moving on...

Very true.  When my former partner was a manager of the club we worked for, he went to a similarly-themed club (without our club's tag on) and when someone asked how he was he glibly said, "Just checking out the competition." 

Perma-banned

ETA: I'm not at all implying what he said was good form.  lol

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Czari Zenovka wrote:


Griffin Ceawlin wrote:

Some clubs/owners are very competitive. Something as simple as a patron wearing a tag from another club could get them booted. Oh, well.

Moving on...

Very true.  When my former partner was a manager of the club we worked for, he went to a similarly-themed club (without our club's tag on) and when someone asked how he was he glibly said, "Just checking out the competition." 

Perma-banned

ETA: I'm not at all implying what he said was good form.  lol

Amazing...Back when I used to own and run a successful club I used to welcome "my competition" and would frequent some of their venues as well. We even used to discuss the changing environment of SL and the whole "keeping the customer satisfied" ethic as well.  It seems those days are long over and club owners are more,dare I say, "paranoid?"

I miss the old days.

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KarenMichelle Lane wrote:


Czari Zenovka wrote:


Griffin Ceawlin wrote:

Some clubs/owners are very competitive. Something as simple as a patron wearing a tag from another club could get them booted. Oh, well.

Moving on...

Very true.  When my former partner was a manager of the club we worked for, he went to a similarly-themed club (without our club's tag on) and when someone asked how he was he glibly said, "Just checking out the competition." 

Perma-banned

ETA: I'm not at all implying what he said was good form.  lol

Amazing...Back when I used to own and run a successful club I used to welcome "my competition" and would frequent some of their venues as well. We even used to discuss the changing environment of SL and the whole "keeping the customer satisfied" ethic as well.  It seems those days are long over and club owners are more,dare I say, "paranoid?"

I miss the old days.

I miss the old days too.  The sad thing is, the situation I mentioned happened in mid-2007.

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Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

Yes, I've seen it before.  I've also have seen clubs forbid staff from even working in any other clubs.

 

I've seen clubs that forbid staff from even visiting other venues as a guest (in some cases even things that are not clubs)...

Once a club starts down that road, you can rest assure they won't last very long usually as it's a major sign of insecurity on the part of the management.

Of course there's rare exceptions, like bdsm clubs where the staff are collared slaves of the owners and under restriction that way.

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Kenbro Utu wrote:

I don't see anything that appears to be false advertisement.  Just because you filled out an application does not guarantee you a job.  An applicant can be refused for any number of reasons, and conflict of interest seems to be a very good reason to me.

correct. Though they might have mentioned that restriction in their application form, saving themselves the hassle of having to deal with rejections on that ground :)

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Drake1 Nightfire wrote:

Can i ask why you have Mama Allpa listed in the description of your club? Do people really go to clubs to get pregnant? What has SL devolved to?

guess OP is the one guilty of false advertising, putting invalid search terms in her club description in order to drive traffic there...

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