Warning Artists in SL: LL's New TOS Hi-Jacks Your IP

[Freya Mokusei]

Think you need to understand the context of Xavier's post, Trinity. Please don't speculate and then assign motive to my posts, I consider that dishonest.

He doesn't understand how content licences work - thought LL were setting our content to the LGPL licence (they're not, obviously).

Neither his post nor mine had anything to do with my opinion on this ToS thing, but you've got to start off with facts. No need to assume any offence from my lolling.

[Trinity Yazimoto]

I have also sent the same email i sent to WIPO to the european commission in charge of the intellectual property. 

I hope ill get an answer. 

MARKT-IPRENFORCEMENT@ec.europa.eu

http://ec.europa.eu/internal_market/iprenforcement/index_en.htm

[Alan Radius]

Hello

some wanst the group

this is the URL just click on it to Join :

secondlife:///app/group/d40ad6cf-a8cf-dae3-b762-9d816e519919/about

 

 

[Toysoldier Thor]

Well more news that adds more significant pressure and symbolism to the cause to tell LL that their TOS will not be acceptable....

this big news for all of you that know the art community.  We all know that LL knows Bryan Oh very well.

Bryn Oh, long an avid and powerful supporter of the arts, resigns her role with the LEA (Linden Endowment for the Arts) in response to the August 2013 Terms of Service.

[A3123]

Good riddance.

Second Life needs less junk makers.

[Toysoldier Thor]

---

A3123 wrote:

Good riddance.

Second Life needs less junk makers.

---

sniker... i was waiting for one of the trolls to sneak out of the woodwork to provide such constructive input to the threads and topic.  To call Bryn's content junk??? the best artist in SL?  lol lots of credibility on your statement.

[Jackson Redstar]

I had no idea. this would seem to be a rather illlegal clause, but then again, if you want to log on, what choice does one have

[Poenald Palen]

---

Toysoldier Thor wrote:

---

A3123 wrote:

Good riddance.

Second Life needs less junk makers.

---

sniker... i was waiting for one of the trolls to sneak out of the woodwork to provide such constructive input to the threads and topic.  To call Bryn's content junk??? the best artist in SL?  lol lots of credibility on your statement.

---

That isn't a good troll. This may be seen as one though, but still maybe not good.

Point one: Recently game studios went belly up. There are artists floating around, coders and game designers that are PRO. These guys are not 'beast in SL' BUT some may surpass and thier serious artists, they wouldn't make stuff in SL to pay a few bills as a "Hobby business" because they work on serious art projects in RL as well as making HUGE games, and small ones to. These guys are hitting the indie games and apps pool. What does this have to do with SL? Earnings NOW are important to eat NOW, if LL steals thier stuff they don't care BECAUSE THEY MAKE ART ALL THE TIME FOR SOMEONE ELSE AND DO NOT OWN THE IP. They are used to this. BUT, even if they turn thier nose up art SL they might not at other markets a SL creator may wish to go to replace thier SL earnings!! SL creators that are not serious artists with skills varied enough to handle modern game production are STUCK in SL!

Point two: IF you are earning else where you are the enemy of SL and Desura! WebGL and HTML5 make games more prevelent elsewhere.

Point three: Refocus of what SL is. SL makes shared spaces, not places for people to have capitalistic based economy fantasies.

Point three: Junk? SL's heritage is NOT fine artists or the BEST...It is OUTSIDER artists!!! Shared spaces help to unleash creativity and some people LOVE outsider art. REAL art is well...just boring to them! GOOD RIDENCE they say! HA! The fine art IS junk, and besies most SLers want stuff that works and is fun so they buy ASSETS and NOT art.

Hypothetical to consider. Llet's say SL is dying and LL knows it. They basically wish to disable it iinstead of let it die. You can argue this is akin to chewing ones foot off to save ones body. The destruction you create is easier to handle the the decay you don't, which is why buildings are blown up instead of fixed! Controlled demoltion by explosives works, so they use it. LL might have issues with population being swayed by capitalists who see the trouble, take thier money and make a NEW SL with open sim tech. This is already happening, so KILL the earnings! How? ONE change....

NO MORE LINDEN DOLLARS TO REAL DOLLARS.

LL creates this TOS (half done!) and then makes a reward system for the biggest issues in SL: 'How do I make lindens?' and you simply get people to compete for them and do NOT let linden dollars OUT of SL. NO MORE EARNINGS going on. Premium gets land, NO ONE ELSE. But dong this one change, kill off money making out of SL, you keep SL floating and make money from advertising and premium OR premium alone.

OH, no one will make anything in SL again right? So WHAT they already have taken all of the stuff now with this TOS change!

They need you less than you need them, they are dying out anyway. Kill them off, take thier stuff and replace them with people who wish to share spaces and NOT just make money, block people out and only hang with 3-4 freinds in ONE place all year and leave only once in a whle...which is currently what I have heard many in SL are donig. Some are only looking to build thier stupid Facebook or twitter followers for marketing, benifits of fame/networking, or here for porn. ALL of these people may grow bored and leave, they are easy to find and get a bit of cash out of and they leave, so whatever. The ones who stick around complain and type THOUSANDS of words on your forums!! They complain, say nonsense things and even might talk about eating or other mundane subject matter. They are such a waste of space...not that I know of anyone like that. Anyway, back to troll mode....

SO, basically your BEST artsts ARE junk makers! They make formuliac stuff and might even adhere to boring standards like the golden ratio or even get all into semophores. Boring, junk. It is like going to a palce where everyone says one of 20 lines and walks backwards....OK, walking backwards IS tricky to do for so long BUT if you try it you might find you can do it to and they ALL do it!! Outsider artists are making the interesting stuff, and it is junk to. Thank GOD it is junk, because if it wasn't junk it would be boring, derivitative in a predictable way and full of a langauge that is boring. It is crazy, nonsensical and random, the persons movements are there and you may never understand it other than maybe thinking maybe lag got the better of them and they sped up the work or ran out of patience looking for textures lol. It is full of human flaws, human spirit and you can laugh at it and stil appreciate it. I am not a fan of it, but this is what I have heard.

Another issues is capitalism. Capitalism drives art sometimes, and it can create fad ladden...well...JUNK!

SO, YES...JUNK INDEED it is, to someone at least.

Besides, better 3D artist have now blocked you all out...you have no where to go....Ol' Rodvik knows one thing...an army marches on it's belly, and ceaser didn't mean they are snakes or hidding all the time. Like napolean leaving the sick behind, it may become infamous BUT a army needs moral and a smaller better Spartan army will beat a rag tag bunch of religious nuts who think they are smarter and faster just because they wipe thier butts the way thier ruler tells them to! Yes, bathroom hygene does NOT rule the battle feild, and YOU sir are claiming we will be victorious by NOT sacrificing, by NOT supporting the stongest and by being foolish to think that the battle field will not be muddy...THIS ECONOMY IS OUR ENGLAND, LL OUR NAPOLEAN AND YOU SIR ARE SAYING WE SHOULD ALL CHARGE AND EVEN WITH THE SICK...but I mean, I don't do much here anymore and have to many issues (I AM the sick withering laggard that is getting picked off in the deserts before the battle of waterloo even starts!!) so....yeah....I guess not a good enough troll, I am not in the mood to hide the time in history SL is in.

In all seriousness though, in order to handle some transactions they need to do this and in order to do testing they may benifit from it, but YOU are right the TOS is to broad and could have stated the reason why they need the stuff as a restriction but they didn't, they leave it to trust that they will not mess people around.

SL has already had a change of CEO, most of the workers are different and the investors are more worried about earnings. They have enough content now, they don't really need us and could hire a team of 100 over the next year and replace ALL of the top makers. In fact, some would love to work full time but don't output as much because the earnings they need are not there, ironically kiling off 10 rivals of thier or scaring away creators from making new uploads HELPS those and they output more and may even be hirable! All they have to do is TRUST in LL and keep on going, who knows if they do eventually make anything from it but they surely may earn more in the short term and LL doesn't skip a beat at having content for the seekers of new stuff to see and use. ZERO liability on the business end, hard to say legal end either....but who knows.

[Toysoldier Thor]

True Poenald.  You qualify better than the first one   You said in 15 chapters the same worthless meaningless statements the other one did in 2 sentences.  Feel bad you wasted soo much of your own personal effort and time when you could have accomplished your insults and trolling in 2 sentences like the other one (if that was your alt)

Anyway... 99% of the rest of SL residents disagree with your personal beliefs of the amazing content created within SL.  And proof is in the pudding as many including me have made $1000's and more in just hobby efforts to create our Junk.  Amazing artists have been spawned from SL because of the so called junk you see.  In fact I am having my first Real Life 6 week art exhibit showing up 40 of my artworks to a major international corporate art gallery... ohh sorry... 40 of my JUNK works.  And I know my art is not even half as good as the amazing creations from other artist in SL.

So, I would engage into proving you wrong but I can tell that would be a waste of time to engage with you. You are not here posting to prove you have a valid idea... you are here to flame and anger those that create amazing content in SL.  So debating with you would be a losing battle.

Just a bit shocked that a man/woman whomever you are.... and all your alts ... have SecondLife accounts if it sooooo filled with all this junk!  It must be a pure insult to you even being here.  Soooo exactly why are you here?

Thanks for your valued opinion POe....  apologies if few wont bite on your flames.

Have an Awesome Night!

[Toysoldier Thor]

Another big shot over LL's bow that the Creators of SL are angry and scared... and wont stand around naively when LL makes such serious moves.....

Today one of SondLife's biggest names in 3D content development, Sculpties, Mesh... Gaia Clary has announced how Avastar is taking actions in response to LL's recent TOS changes to better protect their customers and send a message....

This is a big move ...

http://blog.machinimatrix.org/2013/10/03/linden-labs-changes-in-tos/

 

[Kylie Sabra]

A new group has formed in SL called the United Content Creators of SL  It is an open group and is a viable forum for collectively working together to let LL know our feelings on the TOS and to effect change. If you can't find the group in search, contact Kylie Sabra, or Toysoldier Thor for an invite. A united force is a powerful statement. 

 

[Kylie Sabra]

Check the United Content Creators of SL Blog for links to articles, blogs, forums regarding SL TOS. 

http://unitedcontentcreatorsofsl.wordpress.com/2013/10/07/test-post/

 

You can also download information from the group's Google Drive.

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B6WF8NkOyoV4R3NOTm1YME5IdGc&usp=sharing

 

Top Headlines:

 

10-07-13 Avastar Takes a Softer Stance on SL TOS, by Kylie Sabra

10-07-13 Huge Problem for All Creators in Second Life, by Jo Yardley

10-06-13  Response to Post from Mona Eberhardt by Kylie Sabra  

10-05-13 From Gamasutra – “Linden Lab Acquires Distribution Service Dasura” 

10-05-13  Bryn Oh says, “Farewell, LEA.”  

10-03-13 A Scrutiny of the Recent Changes to Second Life’s TOS, by Mona Eberhardt – A thoughtful, pa...

 

[Kylie Sabra]

If you are concerned about the Second Life Terms of Service, I encourage you to join the United Content Creators of SL group.  It is an open group offering a structured approach to effecting change.  

Click link to join. 

http://search.secondlife.com/?lang=en-US&collection_chosen=groups&query_term=united+content+creators+of+SL#

[Toysoldier Thor]

---

Kylie Sabra wrote:

If you are concerned about the Second Life Terms of Service, I encourage you to join the United Content Creators of SL group.  It is an open group offering a structured approach to effecting change.  

Click link to join. 

http://search.secondlife.com/?lang=en-US&collection_chosen=groups&query_term=united+content+creators+of+SL#

---

It appears that LL might be quietly taking actions to squelch the newly formed "UNITED CONTENT CREATORS of SL" group from establishing.

Yesterday the group noticed that from the Google Docs site, the document that provides all Creator members with links to all the on-going discussions on the LL TOS issue ... all links work except those links that point to any of the SL Forum threads.  These same links all worked the day before but now they do not.

I have now have noticed that the link above in this thread to the SL inworld created group with almost 200 members and growing now comes up with NO RESULTS.   Hmmmmm... so our group cannot be found in SL search.

It sure seems like LL Management is trying to stop the quickly expanding protests / revolt against their draconian TOS Changes and they don't like that the creators are now formally forming as a common group to develop an action plan to fight the LL TOS Change.

I suspect that they would also like to remove all TOS Discussion threads on the SL Forums but this would draw far too much attention by the media and community whom has been heavily involved and/or watching all these threads to see them all disappear.

Hey Rodvik, here is an idea for you to consider.  Instead ot sticking your head in the sand and fiddling as LL's Rome continues to burn out of control, how about taking the mature action as a CEO of LL and openly addressing all our concerns against your draconian disrespectful actions you have taken against the creators of SL that have made SL the success that it has been for 10 years.

Its your job as CEO to look out for the interests of LL and the customers / partners that makes your products profitable.  Disrespecting the creators of SL and hiding from the growing anger that has resulted from your actions would not qualify.

 

[Toysoldier Thor]

Followup... since it appears that LL is trying to do the mature thing on this TOS issue and block Creators from finding the new UCCSL group (that passed over 180 members in the first 2 weeks), contact some of us like myself, Kylie, Trinity or others inworld and we will get you invited.

[Perrie Juran]

Just commenting here in general.

The URL's on Forum pages can sometimes do the strangest things.

I've copied Links to friends In World and if it was a page in the middle of the discussion it wouldn't work. 

In the Private Message function in this Forum if I copy/paste links into a message they ofttimes fail for the person I sent them too while if I use the "Insert Link" function they are fine.

Also, the above link to the group works for me.

It could just be that you are running into some of the crazy borky things I don't understand all the whyfores and wherefores this Forum does and not a conspiracy.

[Toysoldier Thor]

All I can say is that before I posted, the search to the new group presented zero results for UCCSL - by me and Luna also mentioned it.  Even when other versions of "creation groups" found results.  Then about 10 minutes after I posted, the same link I clicked on twice and provided zero results now shows our group as a result.

Why?  You tell me.

[A3123]

---

Toysoldier Thor wrote:

---

Kylie Sabra wrote:

If you are concerned about the Second Life Terms of Service, I encourage you to join the United Content Creators of SL group.  It is an open group offering a structured approach to effecting change.  

Click link to join. 

http://search.secondlife.com/?lang=en-US&collection_chosen=groups&query_term=united+content+creators+of+SL#

---

It appears that LL might be quietly taking actions to squelch the newly formed "

UNITED CONTENT CREATORS of SL

" group from establishing.

Yesterday the group noticed that from the Google Docs site, the document that provides all Creator members with links to all the on-going discussions on the LL TOS issue ... all links work except those links that point to any of the SL Forum threads.  These same links all worked the day before but now they do not.

I have now have noticed that the link above in this thread to the SL inworld created group with almost 200 members and growing now comes up with NO RESULTS.   Hmmmmm... so our group cannot be found in SL search.

It sure seems like LL Management is trying to stop the quickly expanding protests / revolt against their draconian TOS Changes and they don't like that the creators are now formally forming as a common group to develop an action plan to fight the LL TOS Change.

I suspect that they would also like to remove all TOS Discussion threads on the SL Forums but this would draw far too much attention by the media and community whom has been heavily involved and/or watching all these threads to see them all disappear.

Hey Rodvik, here is an idea for you to consider.  Instead ot sticking your head in the sand and fiddling as LL's Rome continues to burn out of control, how about taking the mature action as a CEO of LL and openly addressing all our concerns against your draconian disrespectful actions you have taken against the creators of SL that have made SL the success that it has been for 10 years.

Its your job as CEO to look out for the interests of LL and the customers / partners that makes your products profitable.  Disrespecting the creators of SL and hiding from the growing anger that has resulted from your actions would not qualify.

 

---

Check your maturity ratings. The link works. 

[Toysoldier Thor]

Yes A3123....

As I mentioned in the other forum... about 10 / 15 minutes after I posted that the link to search for this specific group did not work (while other more generic searches worked) and where Luna mentioned it did not work....  it started working again.

So... I see exactly what you see as a result now.  BUT, you were not there to test it just prior to when I posted it not working.

Why it started working again 10 minutes after I posted it on the forums.... I will leave that theory up to you.

BUT... it now works again.

[Kylie Sabra]

MESSAGE FROM THE UCCSL

 

This Notice also available on GoogleDrive at https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B6WF8NkOyoV4ZkdkOEFJRngwYk0/edit?usp=sharing

The Rumors
It has been brought to my attention that rumors are arising as to the activities of the group. Your board members are Kylie Sabra, Toysoldier Thor and Trinity Yazimoto. Only communications coming in the form of group notices or documents on Google Drive represent the activities and messaging of group; everything else is conjecture or opinion. Rumors are destructive to the group’s purpose, causing misunderstandings and undo fear.

When discussing the TOS, and for your own legal protection, I suggest you avoid attempting to interpret the TOS for others. You can’t go wrong with quoting it, however, there could be some liability in trying to interpret it publicly, as that could be seen as attempting to act as an attorney.

To clarify, the group is not planning a lawsuit. Last I checked, this whole group put together likely lacks the funds to take on a corporation with the deep pockets of Linden Lab.

To keep things simple. If you didn’t see in on Google Drive or in a group notice, then do not assume that everything you are hearing attributed to the UCCSL is indeed fact.

The Purpose of the UCCSL

The UCCSL convened in response to concern over the Second Life TOS. It is not our purpose to determine whether the TOS is harmful. We decided we believe it to be so by starting, joining and participating in the group. The ongoing arguments within the group as to whether the TOS is harmful is a diversion from our purpose.

To state our purpose as simply a possible is to say that we endeavor to effect change to the Linden Lab’s August, 2013 Second Life TOS in a manner that is equitable for all. We welcome, in fact need, your support in growing this group’s numbers to increase our impact and credibility. We welcome and need your input as to how to go about effecting change. Walt’s art protest is a wonderful example. Let’s gather around this event with videography and invite magazines and SL TV to take part. There is so much you can do to help, and your constructive ideas and activities are warmly welcomed.

Are we going to get exactly what we want, likely not. However, we are striving—with your input—to alert Linden Lab to our concerns. Before involving authorities, we will endeavor to open communications with Linden Lab.

I hope I’ve been able to clarify some key items for you and to set your mind at rest. Yes, there will be rumors; you know where to find the facts.

Kylie Sabra

 

[A3123]

Lol, You guys are just playing, right?

[Toysoldier Thor]

Excellent Blogging Article from Darrius Gothly on the current Linden Lab TOS Hi Jacking.  It really lays out all the issues and just how big a mess LL has created for themselves, their future potential business models, and their current community of creators for SecondLife...

Provides some ideas for Creators to consider to possibly protect themselves if LL decides to leverage and abuse its new hijacked rights of all our content....

http://www.dgp4sl.com/wp/2013/10/testing-the-new-terms-of-service/

 

[Toysoldier Thor]

An invite for any SL Creators (both Artistic or Commercial) to have their vote / say on the strategy and plans taking place by the recently formed and quickly growing UNITED CONTENT CREATORS of SECONDLIFE (UCCSL).

There is currently a requested vote out to the UCCSL members (and even non-member creators) to review the content of a letter that will formally be sent to Rodvik & company at LL requesting a meeting regarding the TOS.

The group leadership wants to ensure their actions are transparent and democratic.  So if you are interested to review and vote on this matter, here is the invite request and link via Google Moderator:

 

Group Notice From: United Content Creators of SL, Kylie SabraPlease go to http://www.google.com/moderator/#15/e=211ca5&t=211ca5.40and place your vote.  Voting ends 5:00pm SLT on Oct 19, 2013.Thank you.This notice has an attachment.

[Toysoldier Thor]

On Saturday October 19th at 10am SLT there will be an inworld meeting called:

The Second Life Terms of Service : Content, Creators, & Rights

A SL TOS Legal Panel will take a deep dive look at the latest TOS changes - specifically Section 2.3 and talk about why this is upsetting so many.  They will also answer audience questions on the TOS and creator's rights.

Here is the link to the details of this meeting...

http://insertfunnyname.wordpress.com/2013/10/15/second-life-terms-of-service-a-legal-panel/

[Rhiannon Wildmist]

I  have been in business in SL for over 3 years, I have a store for furniture, as well as a 4 floor art gallery, shopping mall and rent some skyboxes.

The new ToS has stopped me uploading any more artwork and I am seriously considering my future in SL as a result. I am not happy to hand over rights to them to do with as they wish. Linden Lab have made a very bad judgement on this and sims are going dark and people are leaving. The words "sell, re-sell" are clearly in the ToS and they are out to make money from the hard work of their residents and merchants. Enough is enough.

Chances are high that by the end of the month I will be clearing my store, art gallery and mall and cancelling my account. They are killing the SL economy and are strangling creativity. Also they are doing what an copy botter was doing (and been condemned for) tied up with ToS.

Shame on you LL and probably goodbye from me.