Chic Aeon Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 Absolutely. I was sure it was there but alas not. Put it up top. Thanks for catching that oh original bringer of the bad news . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Cronon Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 Do you think that the new ll tos is draconian? Maybe you think is poorly written? Do you want ll to change the the tos? Than come and vote here: http://rcds.nfshost.com/blog_show.php/?id=_blog_09262013091334_llsl=Rex-Cronon Lets show to ll that we stand united. If enough of us do it, than maybe ll will listen. After all we are its customers and supporters. We are the users and creators of the things that fill this virtual word. I don't know what are our chances of success, but I know that is better than doing nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drongle McMahon Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 "I'm also now wondering if any content licensed under a Creative Commons or similar license could not be used in SL anymore." Section 2.3, paragraph 4 : "Except as prohibited by law, you hereby waive, and you agree to waive, any moral rights (including attribution and integrity) that you may have in any User Content..." I believe all CC licenses, even the most lax, include the attribution requirement. In that case, it would appear to me that any of them would be incompatible with the requirement to waive moral rights. For my own (non-lawyer) purposes I interpret this to mean that the only things you can upload now, while remaining in compliance with the ToS, are those for which all components are either entirely created by you or are in the public domain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chic Aeon Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 That's how I read it too Drongle. Thanks for posting on this thread too. So, generated from your graphics program's background maker (or equivilent), hand drawn or painted -- or adapted from photos that you took with your camera or phone. Definitely limiting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toysoldier Thor Posted September 27, 2013 Author Share Posted September 27, 2013 Luna .... That YouTube video was simply stunning and amazing!!!! And I am sure I am picking the symbolism from the video that is the reason you posted it here regarding this topic... The countless small voices can come together to accomplish anything if put together as a harmonized choir. As is the case of the countless small voices of the residents, creators, and artists of SecondLife that can come together and convince Linden Lab to admit the errors of their ways with this TOS Change that is hurting the SecondLife world every minute that it exists. And to demand they correct this critically damaging mistake they have placed upon the SecondLife virtual world we all love and cherish so much. To LL Management... our voices on this issue will not diminsh... like the video... it will get stronger until you address this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czari Zenovka Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 There are at least two current threads on this topic in General which is great because many people, even merchants, don't read these forums. I have no earthly idea why a merchant wouldn't, but I've had some non-merchants say they don't read these forums because they're not a merchant and don't think "we" want them posting. I always encourage those people to come here and participate; I for one, like to know what a customer likes, thinks, wants, etc. Ok, a bit off topic but the point was having threads in General gets even wider exposure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herkimer Highmist Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 Chic Aeon wrote: The reasoning is that we do not hold the copyright to those works and we did not create them from scratch. This was talked about in length on the CG Textures thread in the Building and Texturing forum a couple of weeks ago. If I'm not mistaken, this new TOS is also in violation of GPL-licensed (and other OSS-licensed) scripts wandering around on various websites. I wonder if this TOS also applies to material posted on the LSL wiki (e.g., all the GPL-licensed scripts in the script library). Regardless, it's rather ironic that you can no longer copy/paste a GPL script from the wiki to in-world without violating the license the script was released to the public under. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sassy Romano Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 Overall, it just makes it harder for those who obey the copyright laws and respect the rules of the likes of CG Textures, while letting those who care less just ride roughshod over it and continue as before *shrugs* Rex, I looked at your survey but my issue isn't that I expect LL to take my content and do what they like with it, it's that it just cuts off so many resource sources if remaining compliant with the terms in the ToS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiftRaven Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 So my daily "Second Life" TOS search has stumbled onto, now getting close to a dozen different posts about the TOS change in a very short time frame. Blogs I had never seen before all either speaking about or pointing to Nalates's, New World Notes, Inara's or Renderosity. But one stood out, and here it is. Draconic Kiss TOS woes http://draconickiss.blogspot.com/2013/09/tos-woes.html Quick edit to add one more. Interview With Tuna Oddfellow and Shava Suntzu http://slnewserpeople.blogspot.com/2013/09/interview-with-tuna-oddfellow-and-shava.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drongle McMahon Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 Re: video linked by Luna Bliss Well, Toy, I suppose we are both guessing here, but, the credits at the end being longer that the video, I am guessing this was a clever and enjoyable way of suggesting why they might wish for the waiving of attribution. As such, it is a good point, although I am not sure how far it is justified, as I imagine attribution need only be attached to individual items, not the entire world all at once. It is certainly true that attributions can accumulate alarmingly when several sources are combined, each perhaps already having multiple attributions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chic Aeon Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 Thanks for the Draconian Kiss post link . I added it to my list that Google likes well. Already had the other and wish them well on that similar to SL grid. Thanks for the "Like" of my current build by the way (insert wink here). Added more today and it will be open to the public soon. (Other grid folks. Not building in SL until things are changed.) NO MORE UPLOADS! LOL Keep on searching! (Insider info deleted. Damn I hate keeping quiet!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiftRaven Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 Those "Winks" always get me in the funny bones. lol About the build and like, Sure thing! Its a pretty build I think. The facinating thing about the Interview with Tuna was Google caught it 27 seconds after it was online, but I didn't add to my post right away cause I was a bit hungry . The following Google Search Text without the red arrows, below produces the fastest, most accurate, and least clutter free results about the TOS change for anyone willing to try it. Typed, exactly like below, quotes play an important role in an exact search. Good luck! :smileyhappy: again without the red arrows >>> "second life" tos <<< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rya Nitely Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 Luna Bliss wrote: A very pretty video indeed. And yes I can see the point you are making. Like Toysoldier said in his post , if we all raise our voices together and started singing a protest song then LL will want to do something to shut us up for sure. Especially with my voice, I don't sing as well as these people in the video :matte-motes-bashful-cute: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rya Nitely Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 Just an update on my position Not one single new product release since 6th September. I have uploaded a couple of textures because I was halfway through a custom job when this was all announced, and I put the customer first - but no more SL work from me except customer support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rya Nitely Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 Sassy Romano wrote: Overall, it just makes it harder for those who obey the copyright laws and respect the rules of the likes of CG Textures, while letting those who care less just ride roughshod over it and continue as before *shrugs* Rex, I looked at your survey but my issue isn't that I expect LL to take my content and do what they like with it, it's that it just cuts off so many resource sources if remaining compliant with the terms in the ToS. This is my view too. What concerns me more is that I can no longer use sites like CGTextures etc. And this will have a huge impact on my ability to create. I don't really believe LL would want to sell my items at all (or anyone else's for that matter). Especially since so many items require the knowledge of the original creator when it comes to customer support. I don't even believe LL would know how to troubleshoot the placement of an offsim on a small parcel, or fix boat rezzer issues etc. And I really don't think they would want that responsibility. I think they need the creators to do this work. And they really wouldn't pick and choose - it would be all or none when it came to content grab. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rya Nitely Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 RiftRaven wrote: So my daily "Second Life" TOS search has stumbled onto, now getting close to a dozen different posts about the TOS change in a very short time frame. Blogs I had never seen before all either speaking about or pointing to Nalates's, New World Notes, Inara's or Renderosity. But one stood out, and here it is. Draconic Kiss TOS woes http://draconickiss.blogspot.com/2013/09/tos-woes.html Quick edit to add one more. Interview With Tuna Oddfellow and Shava Suntzu http://slnewserpeople.blogspot.com/2013/09/interview-with-tuna-oddfellow-and-shava.html Just read these blogs. Very interesting reading. Maybe if people who are more closely connected with LL opened discussion with them it might have more impact than these threads - and we know they do read the threads. Shava's comment about the reasons LL aren't changing the ToS is that they are either 'lazy, dumb or malicious'. Maybe stubborn could be added to that. But if they don't change it back, at least they can give us the real reasons. If they don't give us a more detailed explanation then I would say the reasons could only be malicious - we won't like the reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrius Gothly Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 Luna Bliss wrote: Absolutely beautiful video Luna. Thank you for posting it. A single soft voice, plaintively crying to be set free, unfettered, wings spread as her feet step off into the whirlwind of her imagination Others, seemingly apart and disjoint, yet still alike, alive, on wings of their own The quiet power of the one, melds, molds, folds into the force of the many, the beauty of the spirit, the flight of our common dreams ... shattered by the ugly thud of a deaf and uncaring hammer ... scattering all, interrupting so much ... and yet the beauty reawakens somewhere else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pirschjaeger Fassbinder Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 I really wish that LL would at the very least make it clear what their intentions are with this new TOS. I have not uploaded anything since I have learned of this. I probably wouldn't spend my lindens on uploading anything, if I am not confident that LL will not sell my work. Especially when I have to make every single little texture I use. I just got a new desktop and I feel like I just wasted my money on it, since SL is the only graphics intense thing I do on this computer. I tried looking at Cloud Party, but it is not fun being stuck a somewhat homely hyooman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dartagan Shepherd Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 @RiftRaven Thanks for posting these links. This particularly struck me in the Tuna interview: "We have a multiverse, a whole Internet. Part of it is 3d, and all of it is us." "From the angle of some Second Lifers it is only there though.," Tuna added, "This needs to change." This was true before SL, and it's what drew me to SL in the first place. Those of you who began pioneering virtual worlds pre-SL know of which I speak. It was a metaverse until SL came along and tried to bundle into their closed garden and then tried to sell "your world" while continually controlling, minimizing and monetizing it. We already knew they were our worlds, we built them. When SL built one, we knew it was "their world". And now that's painfully and rightly obvious to what extent something so creative can be so monetized by the unethical. It doesn't so much need to change, it needs to go back to where we were before LL came along and held virtual worlds back by 10 years. It is indeed a metaverse. It always will be and aside from the sky is falling mantra ... it is nonetheless a slowly dying world hastened by years of bad management and monetization-before-customers. @Rya: Replied to you because I was both a bit suprised and impressed by your stand particularly. Bravo, and count me as another who will not be contributing any content to a company that can't be bothered to specifiy what exactly they're going to do with my content. It has been before SL and will be long after: "Your metaverse, your imagination". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chic Aeon Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 I have also not uploaded since the CG Textures announcement and have taken the No More Uploads pledge. If there is a very important need to upload a sign for MOSP (LEA7), I will do that as it is my responsibility, but I have stopped building for there as well as for my shop. Should anyone be interested I was asked to post an email I sent the other day. You can find it on AviewTV here. It is mostly in reference to machinima and the new TOS. Sorry. It is still in draft. SO NOT A WORDPRESS GAL. LOL. Took me forever to get it up there. Thought "publish' meant publish. Silly me. I am feeling pretty peaceful this morning. Maybe that's because I have found something else to do and a place to keep my skills sharp . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aztral Aeon Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 I got a page not found error on the AView.tv link Chic Err..excuse me. not "page not found," but the site couldn't find your post. But an update on what I have been working this past week. I contacted a number of editors / authors at various "gaming news" websites. (some you guys would definately have heard of) I have already received a few "nibbles," so I am hopeful that soon some major game website will pick this up and then run with it. This process is slooow going since it takes a while to write each email. So if anyone else cares to join in, there are lots of "gaming news" websites out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Cronon Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 My poll was made to show how many people want the tos changed. You don't like the tos because it cuts off too many of your resource, others don't like it for other reasons. What matters is that people vote and show where they stand. Hopefully there are people inside ll that are favorable towards a tos change. If enough votes are gathered than it can be used as supportive evidence that the tos should be changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiftRaven Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 So I decided to stop being this makeshift reporter that I suddenly found myself being. :smileyvery-happy: But then I found these two, that, again lured me back here. Heck why not two more. DISCUSSION MEETING ON THE NEW SL TERMS OF SERVICE http://secondculture.pirats.fr/?p=4990 This one had a short interesting bit, in it. New to me. You'll know when you read it. New terms of service aka kiss me you giant bomb http://brynoh.blogspot.com/2013/09/new-terms-of-service-aka-kiss-me-you.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czari Zenovka Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 Thank you so much for getting the word out to so many people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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