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Updated LL TOS Claims FULL RIGHTS to ALL CONTENT


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Czari Zenovka wrote:


Darrius Gothly wrote:
                

  • Delete my Avatar accounts

I wish I could know that such strong statements and actions from a former LL employee would have some level of impact on the thinking and behavior of Rodvik and the BoD ...
 

I understand your passion and where you're coming from Darrius...truly...but if/when you get to the point you mentioned, please don't delete your avatar; just leave it sitting at Basic.  I'd miss you too much.
:(

No need to worry there Czari. My Avatar has to remain "alive" so that I can continue to provide the paid services that my customers depend on. A lot of what's involved is automated of course, but there are always "issues" that arise from time to time, and those require a brain to contemplate my Avatar navel enough to comprehend the root cause.

But like Rya, similar to Madeliefste, and I suspect very much akin to a lot of others that used to wake up in the middle of the night, grab a notepad and jot off the really neat idea for Second Life that came to us in our slumber .. I suspect that a pretty high number of us aren't all that jazzed about the platform any more.

But I have to ask this question: If the theories I see put forth from time to time are true; that it's just us old worn-out has-beens that have spent all of our creative capital and are now just decrepit arthritic cane-shakers, polluting the airwaves of the forums with our crotchety exhortations against the "Evil Empire" that stole our youth .. where are the vivacious youth, the vitamin-powered, adrenaline screamers, laughing at the creaking squeaking noises of us old-fogeys in our wheelchairs as they, the true heirs of the new Virtual World race around the linoleum paved roadways of the corporate halls, themselves squeaking and creaking as their athletic shoes bite for traction and propel them headlong into their next amazing and exhilirating adventure?

In other words .. where's the kids that are supposed to take this over from us so the World will survive?

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Madeliefste Oh wrote:


Drake1 Nightfire wrote:

 

When was there a time when land was not rented from LL? Are there people that still "own" land and don't have to pay tier?

Whether it was a marketing trick or an ideal of Philip, the impression was given that people were owner of the land they had bought. You paid tier to LL, not rent. The tier was paid as a compensation for the serverspace where the 'land' was stored. But the virtual land, which ment in those days something like 'the visual presentation of the reserved server space' was given us ownership over at the moment of buy.

 

There are indeed still people who 'own' land and don't have to pay. Those are the early residents. They have a lifetime free premium account, so they also have this free 512m land avaialble for the rest of their life.

 

 

ok, they have a free 512 plot. anything above that they had to pay for, and still do i would assume. Teir is just another way of saying rent. It's semantics. No one actualy "owns" anything in SL. it all belongs to LL. We just play here.

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Darrius Gothly wrote:


Czari Zenovka wrote:


Darrius Gothly wrote:
                

  • Delete my Avatar accounts

I wish I could know that such strong statements and actions from a former LL employee would have some level of impact on the thinking and behavior of Rodvik and the BoD ...
 

I understand your passion and where you're coming from Darrius...truly...but if/when you get to the point you mentioned, please don't delete your avatar; just leave it sitting at Basic.  I'd miss you too much.
:(

No need to worry there Czari. My Avatar has to remain "alive" so that I can continue to provide the paid services that my customers depend on. A lot of what's involved is automated of course, but there are always "issues" that arise from time to time, and those require a brain to contemplate my Avatar navel enough to comprehend the root cause.

But like Rya, similar to Madeliefste, and I suspect very much akin to a lot of others that used to wake up in the middle of the night, grab a notepad and jot off the really neat idea for Second Life that came to us in our slumber .. I suspect that a pretty high number of us aren't all that jazzed about the platform any more.

But I have to ask this question: If the theories I see put forth from time to time are true; that it's just us old worn-out has-beens that have spent all of our creative capital and are now just decrepit arthritic cane-shakers, polluting the airwaves of the forums with our crotchety exhortations against the "Evil Empire" that stole our youth .. where are the vivacious youth, the vitamin-powered, adrenaline screamers, laughing at the creaking squeaking noises of us old-fogeys in our wheelchairs as they, the true heirs of the new Virtual World race around the linoleum paved roadways of the corporate halls, themselves squeaking and creaking as their athletic shoes bite for traction and propel them headlong into their next amazing and exhilirating adventure?

In other words .. where's the kids that are supposed to take this over from us so the World will survive?

At clubs and errrrrrr some "adult" places. ;)

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Drake1 Nightfire wrote:


Madeliefste Oh wrote:


Drake1 Nightfire wrote:

 

When was there a time when land was not rented from LL? Are there people that still "own" land and don't have to pay tier?

Whether it was a marketing trick or an ideal of Philip, the impression was given that people were owner of the land they had bought. You paid tier to LL, not rent. The tier was paid as a compensation for the serverspace where the 'land' was stored. But the virtual land, which ment in those days something like 'the visual presentation of the reserved server space' was given us ownership over at the moment of buy.

 

There are indeed still people who 'own' land and don't have to pay. Those are the early residents. They have a lifetime free premium account, so they also have this free 512m land avaialble for the rest of their life.

 

 

ok, they have a free 512 plot. anything above that they had to pay for, and still do i would assume. Teir is just another way of saying rent. It's semantics. No one actualy "owns" anything in SL. it all belongs to LL. We just play here.

This brings up something I was wondering about - way before I began SL there was something called "First Land."  I still heard people asking about it when I joined in May of 2007 so not sure when it was discontinued but, is there an oldbie that can explain what that was?  And would tier still be paid on this land?  I'm just curious because I enjoy hearing SL lore.  (The Tea Crate Rebellion of July 2003 sounded like fun!)

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Catherine Cotton wrote:

Acturly it's like this;

Lifetime accounts were $159 and some change. That gave those folks no fees per month for life. They also recieved 4096m of land not 512 and 500L$ per week.  They are sitting pretty at this point.

 

Thank you, Catherine, I think you may have answered my question.  Marianne McCann used to mention this a bit in the old RA - that a lot of what appears to be deserted houses in Shermerville and related sims are actually owned by people with the lifetime accounts and just log into SL here and there, if that.  I always wondered why the few parcels of land that occasionally popped up for sale there were so expensive - I do know most of them are double prim but YOWZA the prices!!!  I'm thinking the prices are due to SL nostalgia or those who want to be on Mainland but in a structured neighborhood.  Just guessing.

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Catherine Cotton wrote:

First land was a 512 plot scheme.  You got it with your monthly basic subscription.  It was usually crappy mainland no one wanted. Unfortunatly land barons scooped up all the really good plots very early on.

So instead of the current method of being able to purchase a 512 parcel of one's choice tier free with a Premium Account - back then land was just "assigned?"

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Drake1 Nightfire wrote:

 

ok, they have a free 512 plot. anything above that they had to pay for, and still do i would assume. Teir is just another way of saying rent. It's semantics. No one actualy "owns" anything in SL. it all belongs to LL. We just play here.

There has been a class action lawsuit (Evans et al vs. Linden Lab) about this issue, the ownership of virtual land (and content). It led to a settlement of 43 million Linden dollars.So it seems that Linden Lab lost.

Experts say: The settlement of this case means that we need to watch for other lawsuits to see how virtual property ownership will ultimately established.

(see:
)

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Darrius Gothly wrote:

 

But like Rya, similar to Madeliefste, and I suspect very much akin to a lot of others that used to wake up in the middle of the night, grab a notepad and jot off the really neat idea for Second Life that came to us in our slumber .. I suspect that a pretty high number of us aren't all that jazzed about the platform any more.


I think it was a collective dream. When we joined this world there was no past to look at, there was only a future laying in front of us. The expectations for this future were heavily perfumed with Roosedale roses. It was one thrill after the other, there was excitement all over the grid. We felt we were part of something very unique, something very promising.

But in the years we were building our world, and our intrest grew, as merchants or as estate owners, the relation between the lab and the residents became more and more disrupted. It was one dissappointment after the other. And it became more and more clear that the proud ship that SL once was, was not leading us to the next horizon of Roosedales vision, but in stead it became
a rudderless ship. Slowly but steadily the collective dream fell apart.

I sense that nowadays there is a sort of collective fear that we have more past in SL then future. That gives the whole experience a more grimmy atmosphere.



But I have to ask this question: If the theories I see put forth from time to time are true; that it's just us old worn-out has-beens that have spent all of our creative capital and are now just decrepit arthritic cane-shakers, polluting the airwaves of the forums with our crotchety exhortations against the "Evil Empire" that stole our youth .. where are the vivacious youth, the vitamin-powered, adrenaline screamers, laughing at the creaking squeaking noises of us old-fogeys in our wheelchairs as they, the true heirs of the new Virtual World race around the linoleum paved roadways of the corporate halls, themselves squeaking and creaking as their athletic shoes bite for traction and propel them headlong into their next amazing and exhilirating adventure?

In other words .. where's the kids that are supposed to take this over from us so the World will survive?

 Those kids are making apps. Why would they lock them selves up in a virtual world, with a limited number of residents, while at the same time they can reach the whole world with their creations.

 

 

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Drake1 Nightfire wrote:


Perrie Juran wrote:

 

Did you even bother to read the paragraph that preceded that "Not OK" list?  Did you perhaps notice how specifically SL-Centric those terms are?

Seriously, I am beginning to get the idea that you are being obtuse simply for the sake of being obtuse.

It's time to get off this tangent and back to the subject matter of this thread.

 

Yes, I did.. There is a group called SL Bar Association and they link to 
and they are the ones doing the discussion on saturday. soo... yeah. Perhaps you are the obtuse one.

I'm not quite following you?  Are you saying that there is something wrong with that domain name?  It has more than one noun in it as the example given in the "this is OK" list, "SLArchitecturalDesignServices.com."

So again, I'm confused to what problems you are seeing with their name.

The names are in compliance.

But whatever. 

It would still be LL's choice to request a take down if they think the SL Bar Association is violating their Trademarks.

 

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The UCCSL group Hall has moved to the sky to avoid lag.

here is the slurl : http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Angel%20Manor/127/108/4002 

Anyone can come here anytime whenever you want infos about the group, join the group, discuss, share ideas etc .

Also you can there join some of the teams we put in place for best work for the group, just click the team boards. 

And we also put guilds board that you can also click for joining, for everyone can make hear their voice and full participate to the work of the group.

See you there :smileyhappy:

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For those Merchants that were looking for the audio recording from today's 3 hour Legal Panel discussion on the LL IP Hi-Jacking TOS Changes.....

here is the link to the raw audio recording of the 3 hour meeting.  There will be full text transcripts, the slides, and video version from the meeting released / distributed by the UCCSL soon.

http://www.toysoldierthor.com/2/post/2013/10/recap-audio-inworld-legal-panel-talk-on-ll-tos.html

 

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I'm going to recant a bit and put my support behind any efforts the community wants to pursue. I stand by my earlier statements, but I don't think I took this as seriously as I should have. Of course, I read the questionable lines. My thinking at the time was that the whole ordeal was just boneheadedness or innocent. Outside of the "non-exclusive" part, LL is claiming rights that no content creator would ever agree to, even if we sold the models/content to game developers. They would never ask for the right to "re-sell". If they did, they would understand that the cost for such rights would be significant.

Personally, I'm embarrassed for both Rod, and Will. These are 2 people that I once had much respect for but these TOS, and their signing off on them, shows they have little to no respect for us. I see them more as thugs that actually think they can do whatever they want. The fact that neither of them have come forward to address the issue, says quite a bit. Rod goes on the record says how much he understands the community and we all thought we had a CEO that was 1 of us. Obviously, he is just other money hungry corporate hack that doesn't give 2 sh.ts about the community, nor the creators within it. If any 2 people should understand the issue, it should be both Rod and Will. They obviously would never agree to such terms themselves, so what makes them think they can pass this all off on us? Again, it is a serious lack of RESPECT!

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Medhue Simoni wrote:

 

Rod goes on the record says how much he understands the community and we all thought we had a CEO that was 1 of us.

I'm on record as being suspicious of Rod and his motives from the beginning.  I never thought he was one of us; when someone "laughs" and says "SL?  Is that still around" when being offered the CEO position of LL was always someone to keep an eye on imo.

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Czari Zenovka wrote:


Medhue Simoni wrote:

 

Rod goes on the record says how much he understands the community and we all thought we had a CEO that was 1 of us.

I'm on record as being suspicious of Rod and his motives from the beginning.  I never thought he was one of us; when someone "laughs" and says "SL?  Is that still around" when being offered the CEO position of LL was always someone to keep an eye on imo.

For the record, I understand that people who don't understand something go on record every day, proclaiming they understand.

;-)

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I don't know how this is going to pan out in the longer term, and I have to admit that I don't really believe it will get anywhere near a count of law to be proved one way or the other, but what I find fascinating over the years I have been around this forum is, how little by little, one at a time, people who once waved LL's flag have gone to the other side, one less for the Empire, and one more for the Rebellion. *Wookie roar!*

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Czari Zenovka wrote:


Medhue Simoni wrote:

 

Rod goes on the record says how much he understands the community and we all thought we had a CEO that was 1 of us.

I'm on record as being suspicious of Rod and his motives from the beginning.  I never thought he was one of us; when someone "laughs" and says "SL?  Is that still around" when being offered the CEO position of LL was always someone to keep an eye on imo.

After the Klingon we were all hoping for the best.

And while at the start, he did some things that gave us hope, that warm fuzzy feeling we got in the beginning appears actually to have originated from Dante's Inferno.

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Czari Zenovka wrote:


Medhue Simoni wrote:

 

Rod goes on the record says how much he understands the community and we all thought we had a CEO that was 1 of us.

I'm on record as being suspicious of Rod and his motives from the beginning.  I never thought he was one of us; when someone "laughs" and says "SL?  Is that still around" when being offered the CEO position of LL was always someone to keep an eye on imo.

I've basically had my head down working on a few different projects, and only coming around SL to check on things. When I saw all the TOS stuff, I looked it over, but I think I was just too caught up in my other work to even want to worry about this stuff. Despite having tons on my plate, I can still watch videos, and I did watch some of the TOS discussion with the lawyers over the weekend, which got me to thinking. Then today, I read Darius's blog, which had the specific TOS section in question. This time, when I read it, all I could think was WTF is LL thinking. Seriously, the only restriction they put on themselves was non-exclusivity. No rational creator can read it and not be extremely concerned and offended. None of us would be here if that was our original TOS.

Now, don't get me wrong, I don't believe in all the different conspiracy stuff, especially the 1 that Darius put forward. That said, it is extremely difficult for me to believe that LL changed the TOS just for BS corporate reasons. Something is going on and they aren't going to tell us until they are ready. If it was just corporate BS, they would have caved already.

With all my projects going on, I never heard anything about Philip's new project, so today I decided to check it out. As I'm sure many of you know, he is making a new virtual world, and he wants to make it more interactive. Nothing on the site states straight out that there will be creation abilities in this new world. I'm not saying there won't be, just that they are vague about it. This does make me wonder if this isn't part of the reason for the new TOS. LL is involved with Philip's project, as are a few big names. I'm actually quite surprised at how far along they are, especially since I just learned about it. They are still using basic avatars right now tho. I'd be willing to bet that High Fidelity has something to do with these new TOS. Whether it is good or bad for us, is yet to be determined. I can see it going either way.

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Medhue Simoni wrote:

 

I'm actually quite surprised at how far along they are, especially since I just learned about it. They are still using basic avatars right now tho. I'd be willing to bet that High Fidelity has something to do with these new TOS. Whether it is good or bad for us, is yet to be determined. I can see it going either way.

It's a possible scenario, but I won't place a bet on it. Nothing I have seen from it so far points in the direction the it is going to be a user generated content virtual world. This time he seems after your computer and other devices, for a collective cloud: "Imagine contributing your computer to a project like SETI, but instead having it simulate part of the virtual world, and earning virtual world currency in exchange for helping to power the grid."

 

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Perrie Juran wrote:


Czari Zenovka wrote:


Medhue Simoni wrote:

 

Rod goes on the record says how much he understands the community and we all thought we had a CEO that was 1 of us.

I'm on record as being suspicious of Rod and his motives from the beginning.  I never thought he was one of us; when someone "laughs" and says "SL?  Is that still around" when being offered the CEO position of LL was always someone to keep an eye on imo.

After the Klingon we were all hoping for the best.

And while at the start, he did some things that gave us hope, that warm fuzzy feeling we got in the beginning appears actually to have originated from Dante's Inferno.

I'm just pointing out to leave "me" out of the "we" because I never liked him from the outset. ;)

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Supposedly LL does not make public Rod's email address so sending an email directly to him is not an easy chore (unless one of you fellow creators / merchants know his email - then IM me to give it to me).

As such, here is the letter the new UCCSL group is trying to get Rodvik to read.  The UCCSL team would like all its members to distribute this letter shown below to what ever social media you all have so that Rodvik can't help but read it.

UCCSL Letter to Rod.JPG

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Toysoldier Thor wrote:

Supposedly LL does not make public Rod's email address so sending an email directly to him is not an easy chore (unless one of you fellow creators / merchants know his email - then IM me to give it to me).

As such, here is the letter the new UCCSL group is trying to get Rodvik to read.  The UCCSL team would like all its members to distribute this letter shown below to what ever social media you all have so that Rodvik can't help but read it.

UCCSL Letter to Rod.JPG


No offense, but that is a joke, inworld?? most of you are from the US, make an appointment or wait at the door and put down some real contact details for it to be abit more serious.

If I was in his shoes doing all that happens, the only thing I would do is think "Yeah, lol, what ever..." and return to business.

LL doesn`t listens, LL doesn`t cares (except a few employees) and they will never to a "call me back" note, after all these years you would think that every one would have learned that already, not to mention that he is from EA where they have it down to art.

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