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Supersatan3

Should SL compete against their own customers?

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Hai Guyz,

I just saw Second Life selling in-world items on Amazon, namely vehicles and pets. A few years ago, I remember how they used to sell newby land plots, which were superior to other forms of land in many ways, they didn't count against your tier, the 80 prim house didn't count against your prim allotment.

One of Second Life's draws is that users can sell their own creations, and some even make an RL living through Second Life. When LL sells their own creations in Second Life, they are competiing against people who are their customers. Should LL really compete against second-party creators in SL?

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Hai Guyz,

I just saw Second Life selling in-world items on Amazon, namely vehicles and pets. A few years ago, I remember how they used to sell newby land plots, which were superior to other forms of land in many ways, they didn't count against your tier, the 80 prim house didn't count against your prim allotment.

One of Second Life's draws is that users can sell their own creations, and some even make an RL living through Second Life. When LL sells their own creations in Second Life, they are competiing against people who are their customers. Should LL really compete against second-party creators in SL?

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Hello, with SL you mean LindenLab ?

They already do with the free houses for Premium Members, i think u mentioned that anyway.

The answer is - no, but who cares....

Monti

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Linden Lab has been known and criticised for competing against its own paying customers for years. It's a company without scruples.

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I hope its a joke that anybody would compare the Lindens stuff or the house for the premium members as a real competitor to user created objects or other land...

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The Linden Homes offerings were relatively attractive compared to regular Mainland or comparable scale Estate parcels because they were able to give themselves the advantage of rooting the houses outside the resident's parcel. The result is a prim bonus similar to double-primmed land except that the bonus prims are used for a fixed house.

Back when Linden Homes were first offered, they were relatively state-of-the-practice for SL housing. Not cutting edge, but not terrible either.

Now, of course, compared with Mesh and Materials and the general advancements of creators, Linden Homes are dated and kind of embarrassing -- but that prim bonus advantage still applies, for those who can tolerate the houses.

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I still don't see the Linden Homes as a dangerous or agressiv competitor to regular land. I don't say they are bad...but not something that will treaten the land- and house markets for various reasons, starting by obvious once like the limited choices and the small size and ending by advanced thougts like customertypes.

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Syo Emerald wrote:

I still don't see the Linden Homes as a dangerous or agressiv competitor to regular land. I don't say they are bad...but not something that will treaten the land- and house markets for various reasons, starting by obvious once like the limited choices and the small size and ending by advanced thougts like customertypes.

it is free land that didn't cost you your stripen

it is also free and clear and you still had all your prims plus a house..which at the time was not out of style..

 

i think what they were doing as far as with new users.. was giving people a taste of  having something in sl and knowing a lot won't settle for that..

they will want more of it..then go out into the world to look for bigger land and more prims..

 

i never saw it as competing..but more hooking..

because  they would be hurting themselves as much as the land market if people don't spend on land..

they wouldn't compete in that market because it's thier market that they own and thier main income from the very start..

all land tier ends with LL no matter who is selling it..

 

what Qie is saying if i am reading it right is.. that when the houses were first put up..they were with the times and  up to par..where now they are pretty much out of style..

being able to have all the prims plus a house was much better deal than on mainland with the same sized lot  that could be in any  layout of the land..

half could be on a hill and the other half at the bottom of it..or just in a really strange cut out..

 

that and the surroundings could clash and be an eye sore..

then still having to use prims if you wanted a house and stuff to put in it..

 

where linden free land was more organized and the only cost was premium account fee..

 

the free prims and free and clear  land while keeping your stripen was the kickers in being a better deal..

but at the same time it was an investment in hoping people would go bigger..

people are always wanting more prims..

and if people are not good with them..they can go through them in a couple of items..

 

that can be good for land sales..because not everyone takes the time to be prim wise hehehehe

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When Linden Homes were first introduced, I thought they might function as intended: a sort of "gateway drug" into landownership. There's no evidence, however, that any of that really happened, and I think the big prim bonus of a house that doesn't count against the parcel limit meant that the barrier to advancing to the next stage was too great.

There are lots of Linden Homes -- multiple mini-contiinents full of them -- and I'm given to understand that they're often completely full-up. So they appealed to a whole lot of people. Maybe those people would never have owned conventional, non-Linden Homes land, in which case Linden Homes didn't compete for that "other" SL land market -- but I don't see why that would be the case.

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Its not free. Not if you just go Premium for that tiny parcel. Its maybe a nice etxra for some...but wouldn't fit my needs and it isn't worth it to go Premium just for the Lindenhome.

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Syo Emerald wrote:

Its not free. Not if you just go Premium for that tiny parcel. Its maybe a nice etxra for some...but wouldn't fit my needs and it isn't worth it to go Premium just for the Lindenhome.

actually it was added to premium later but never became an additional cost in any way..

didn't cost prims 

didn't cost stripen

and you were given a house and land..

and the price to premium never changed..

 

you could always go to mainland and get a first land..but it always costs you prims..

so yes it was totally free..

 

why people join premium really has nothing to do with a perk being free or not..

people pay premium because the cost of premium is what premium costs..not what the perks cost..

it's just how you get to them deals..

your premium fee doesn't change if you get it or not..

 

a tire on a car doesn't cost 50,000 dollars because you bought a 50,000 car for the tire..

it's if it actually costs you anything..

this one didn't..

where the other option to free first land did..it cost you prims..

 

ETA: i just checked what i pay for premium a month..

this is kind of funny to me hehehe

ok..i did annual which is 72 usd a year..

that's 6 usd a month..

i get 400 a week in stripen..

that's 1600 lindens a month..

right now 1600 lindens cost me  6.48 usd..

so basically..i'm paying 48cents a month to be premium..

 

i'm starting to not feel so bad doing that annual thing now..i was kind of bummed about it before hehehe

 

man i could of been getting paid to be premium if i had came here sooner!! \o/

at 500lindens per week

that's 2000 a month..and that ends up being  8.10 usd  with a 6usd cost to be premium..

freakin profit!1 hehehe

 

 

 

 

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Hehe I've made the same calculation, Ceka.

I became premium mainly to have land in mainland - a plot in Gulf of Moles where I made a dock where I can laungh my boats and go out sailing. With the week payments of 300, it is almost free (but the cost of land, paid once when I bought it).

In fact, wanting something more than 512 m², instead of paying more US$ 5 a month for the extra 512m², I made a second premium account, receiving another L$ 300 weekly, and made a group, receiving a extra 10% allowed for land for group. That means that my plot is 1120m² (512 from each account + 96 for group), practically for free.

Linden homes never attracted me but I know a few people that went premium because of them. I don't think that it impacts much the land rental market, but it is just my impression - I don't have solid evidence for that.

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Vania Chaplin wrote:

Hehe I've made the same calculation, Ceka.

 

I became premium mainly to have land in mainland - a plot in Gulf of Moles where I made a dock where I can laungh my boats and go out sailing. With the week payments of 300, it is almost free (but the cost of land, paid once when I bought it).

 

In fact, wanting something more than 512 m², instead of paying more US$ 5 a month for the extra 512m², I made a second premium account, receiving another L$ 300 weekly, and made a group, receiving a extra 10% allowed for land for group. That means that my plot is 1120m² (512 from each account + 96 for group), practically for free.

 

Linden homes never attracted me but I know a few people that went premium because of them. I don't think that it impacts much the land rental market, but it is just my impression - I don't have solid evidence for that.

i missed getting 500 a week by just a couple of weeks if i remember right  lol

 i never did get my first land on mainland or a linden home myself..

 

i really didn't know anythingn about free land when i started..

still..i would have jumped to somethign bigger right away..

i was running out of prims real fast in the place i was at..i didn't even know what a prim was for like two months after getting here lol

 

i just let my friends handle all that stuff..

i just paid the bills hehehehe

 

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To be quite honest my opinion on Second Life.


Second Life is going down the hole, I remember every-time I would login to Second Life I would see 10+ users in every main-grid sand-box I would see Griefers spamming cubes, or people chatting/hanging out any time I would login to the adult grid after leaving Teen Grid now I don't see this anymore.

I remember when I would see Role-Play Sims with over 30+ People, massive markets/malls, but this is gone years ago.

I remember the Combat Sims that used to exist in Second Life but they are now Gone.

Why is it gone? Griefers, Hackers, CopyBotters, Anti Theft Systems like Red Zone, CDS, Privacy Violation, a lot of residents have said *Censored It* and quit Second Life, and finally the way I see it its to the point where Linden Lab as I have said for years needs to make improvements to protect its users from these type of things.

I find it pathetic that to this day my account gets compromised Linden Lab is notified like 72 hours after it occurs they can't restore an account inventory, the problem with this is the fact it doesn't matter how a person gets compromised where it be phishing, and god knows if a Legit TPV every becomes compromised everyone even using a TPV is at risk even if its a 1% Chance and even if developers of the known viewers say they have security in place that 1% Chance could compromised many accounts at which point Linden Lab has no safe-guards in place to fix these type of issues.

My opinion, As a result to a lot of these type of things Residents, or players have quit Second Life and so Linden Lab is trying to make back lost profit, including when they changed the billing system to convert USD balance directly into L$ so that I would have to pay a Cash Out fee, and devalue my Real Life moeny now I can no longer use two payment sources to pay tiers and such as a resident, but who profits Linden Lab.

Second LIfe, is still a good service, it is one of the best because of how unique its users make the service, but Linden Lab needs to step up their game fix the Graphics Bugs with atmospheric shaders, on (AMD) Cards, and most of all improve the account Security  by allowing residents to have multiple security questions, and require that users confirm their IP address by their registered emails so that no other hacker can Brute-Force, or hack another persons account, after all I don't know much about Brute-Force but I know friends of friends who know about this type of stuff, and they tell me Second Life has no protection in fact if I know someones login name which is usually their Second Life name I can sit there for days trying passwords without any Login-Failure have to wait 10 minutes to try again restrictions.

 

Yes Linden Lab is trying to compete to make more profit, I want to See Second Life a good service, and yes Second Life is still unique players can hang out, play and have fun, but if you look around a lot of Second Life users wan't RP, and the RPG experience in Second Life, and after all since Second Life was created a lot more RPG based games are coming out to the point where No one is going to care about Second Life anymore other than login spend a few dollars here and there or even just get content for free, and chat with friends log back off what I am saying is with all the Release of F2P, and P2P RPG titles in 2013 and beyond especially with the new games coming out SL can go on a major decline and already is comparing any service to Second Life.

Entropia, For example is a game similar to Second Life, except users can't create their own items which is the only unique thing about Second Life, but if Entropia ever changes or any other game actually comes out that offers full (FREE) Customization, Character Models/Store like DOTA 2, but on a real world market and doesn't require a lot of money to play it could be a major problem for Second Life. I myself don't like entropia much and agree its nowhere like Second Life but does share common aspects.


I mean face it, Second Life can always be around as a stand-alone service,   but a lot of Merchants are here to make profit, and if the grid is just full of developers and artists no profit, no actual fun, who is going to wan't to really play, sure those who hang out and chat, or those who like art, or development/creation but compared to actual RP, and RPG users on a wide scale it isn't enough to keep Second Life economy running great. Imagine being a small-time merchant, not even making enough money to pay you're tier, or Return of L$/profit from you're creations.

OF Course this is all just opinion, but based on what I have seen compared to starting SL in 08, and hear from others yeah SL is on its decline so they compete big times now. OF Course some say Second Life will improve after summer and so on, I have been monitoring SL for months it hasn't seem to have improve or changed much.

With the way Second Life is today lack of account security/protection, I would watch investing a lot of money into Second Life until Linden Lab adds serious protection as you never know what can happen, I would hate to Login to Second Life some day or see on the news or forums that over 5000 users had their inventory deleted becuase of a legit TPV viewer compromise and then say I told you so. Not saying it iwll ever occur but a reason I urge Linden Lab to do something before it ever does, as I have seen and met what some of the developers of TPV's can do in the past.

 

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Supersatan3 wrote:

Hai Guyz,

I just saw Second Life selling in-world items on Amazon, namely vehicles and pets. A few years ago, I remember how they used to sell newby land plots, which were superior to other forms of land in many ways, they didn't count against your tier, the 80 prim house didn't count against your prim allotment.

One of Second Life's draws is that users can sell their own creations, and some even make an RL living through Second Life. When LL sells their own creations in Second Life, they are competiing against people who are their customers. Should LL really compete against second-party creators in SL?

The items LL is selling are the same vehiles that were previously given out as free gifts to premium members. I remember at least one person on the forums who wasn't into sailing until he got the free gift sailboat from LL and then liked SL sailing so much he bought several expensive boats from resident-owned shipyards. In that case the LL products CREATED business for third-party builders that wouldn't have been there previously.

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Qie Niangao wrote:

When Linden Homes were first introduced, I thought they might function as intended: a sort of "gateway drug" into landownership. There's no evidence, however, that any of that really happened, and I think the big prim bonus of a house that doesn't count against the parcel limit meant that the barrier to advancing to the next stage was too great.

There are lots of Linden Homes -- multiple mini-contiinents full of them -- and I'm given to understand that they're often completely full-up. So they appealed to a whole lot of people. Maybe those people would never have owned conventional, non-Linden Homes land, in which case Linden Homes didn't compete for that "other" SL land market -- but I don't see why that would be the case.

While I know that correlation does not necessarily equal causation, as a matter of personal experience I do know there was a huge drop in small parcel rentals on mainland that followed the introduction of Linden Homes.

http://community.secondlife.com/t5/General-Discussion-Forum/Forced-Out-Of-My-Home-By-Linden-Homes/m-p/1057463/highlight/true#M22169

 

I've seen some of the silly sales LL has done on Amazon.  My favorite was the Troobles. 

 

troobles.JPG

It was a good thing they were "free" because they did not quite function as advertised. 

 

In RL business, when your supplier also becomes your competitor it is a very difficult position to be in.  Been there / done that.  It can and probably will hurt you bad.

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I routinely see advertisements for competing online games at the bottom of the SL home page.

It is any surprise that a company dumb enough to offer aid and comfort to the competition is dumb enough to compete with its customers?

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Perrie Juran wrote:


Qie Niangao wrote:

When Linden Homes were first introduced, I thought they might function as intended: a sort of "gateway drug" into landownership. There's no evidence, however, that any of that really happened, and I think the big prim bonus of a house that doesn't count against the parcel limit meant that the barrier to advancing to the next stage was too great.

There are lots of Linden Homes -- multiple mini-contiinents full of them -- and I'm given to understand that they're often completely full-up. So they appealed to a whole lot of people. Maybe those people would never have owned conventional, non-Linden Homes land, in which case Linden Homes didn't compete for that "other" SL land market -- but I don't see why that would be the case.

While I know that correlation does not necessarily equal causation, as a matter of personal experience I do know there was a huge drop in small parcel rentals on mainland that followed the introduction of Linden Homes.

 

I've seen some of the silly sales LL has done on Amazon.  My favorite was the Troobles. 

 

troobles.JPG

It was a good thing they were "free" because they did not quite function as advertised. 

 

In RL business, when your supplier also becomes your competitor it is a very difficult position to be in.  Been there / done that.  It can and probably will hurt you bad.

LOL i remember those things..

that was their attempt atthe breedables market..

all i could think of when seeing that add was these and how close the name was..

 

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dinner_003.jpg

 


Ceka Cianci wrote:


Perrie Juran wrote:


I've seen some of the silly sales LL has done on Amazon.  My favorite was the Troobles. 

 

troobles.JPG

It was a good thing they were "free" because they did not quite function as advertised. 




LOL i remember those things..

that was their attempt atthe breedables market..

all i could think of when seeing that add was these and how close the name was..

 

 


They were not "breedable," but they sure were tasty.

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oh my mistake..i can't remember why i thought they were breedables ..

i guess with all those different pets coming out at the time that i thought those were also hehehe

 

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Ceka Cianci wrote:

oh my mistake..i can't remember why i thought they were breedables ..

i guess with all those different pets coming out at the time that i thought those were also hehehe

 

There was this fun thread:

http://community.secondlife.com/t5/General-Discussion-Forum/Troobles/td-p/1967613

If you Google 'trouble with troobles' you can find a lot of other hilarity.

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omg i completly forgot all the funny things i that thread..

i'm in tears laughing from all the videos relating to troobles..

 

this one caught me off guard ...i totally forgot about goat trooble!! hehehe

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Perrie Juran wrote:


Qie Niangao wrote:

When Linden Homes were first introduced, I thought they might function as intended: a sort of "gateway drug" into landownership. There's no evidence, however, that any of that really happened, and I think the big prim bonus of a house that doesn't count against the parcel limit meant that the barrier to advancing to the next stage was too great.

There are lots of Linden Homes -- multiple mini-contiinents full of them -- and I'm given to understand that they're often completely full-up. So they appealed to a whole lot of people. Maybe those people would never have owned conventional, non-Linden Homes land, in which case Linden Homes didn't compete for that "other" SL land market -- but I don't see why that would be the case.

While I know that correlation does not necessarily equal causation, as a matter of personal experience I do know there was a huge drop in small parcel rentals on mainland that followed the introduction of Linden Homes.

...

 

...In RL business, when your supplier also becomes your competitor it is a very difficult position to be in.  Been there / done that.  It can and probably will hurt you bad.



This is what I was mainly trying to get at. As for vehicles,  I have come to the conclusion that unless they were significantly higher quality than user-created vehicles, that they most likely wouldn't offer heavy competition. However, I do know a few landlords who complained about a drop in sales when Linde homes were introduced. From what I've seen on LL's advertisements(Thank you google Ads), they are going for the more casual player as opposed to the hardcore creator.

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