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Harassment and the bad review


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I RARELY leave a bad review. I always try and work it out or just move on. The 2 times I left a bad review (in 4 years of being in sl and a shopaholic) I was harassed. First time was years ago. Not kidding the guy attacked me for a year. Now I left another bad review, after taking time to figure it out and once again I am harassed. They harassed me so much that I just took my review down. I don't go around handing out bad reviews. I give them for a reason. Anyone else have issues with this?

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I RARELY leave a bad review. I always try and work it out or just move on. The 2 times I left a bad review (in 4 years of being in sl and a shopaholic) I was harassed. First time was years ago. Not kidding the guy attacked me for a year. Now I left another bad review, after taking time to figure it out and once again I am harassed. They harassed me so much that I just took my review down. I don't go around handing out bad reviews. I give them for a reason. Anyone else have issues with this?

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To mute someone, open his profile and in the bottom look there should be a button "mute", if its not apparent, click on the gear.

I left one day a bad review for a mesh template i bought for including in my creations.. This one had a glitch on the top pocket. and no matter what i tried for texture it, the glitch was still showing... i tried for 15 days of work, then, i tried the texture provided with the template and i noticed it was the same... the pb was on the mesh itself.

Since this creator had really strict Terms and conditions, that i found a lil abusive, i was expecting that at least the item was coming without glitch.

so i left an honnest review explaining what happened. 

So i had to face the creator saying i could im first... Why ? I accepted the fact i lost my money and wont use this item.. and what is the purpose of review if we cant be honnest and sincere ? Would she have redone the mesh if i had im her ? She said that no.

Then she said i was insulting the ppl who made good reviews.. what was pure bs imho... my review was honnest and my point of view... it was not related to other point of view.... other ppl may think what they want, and probably dont have the same expectations than i have bec we are all different..

She refunded me.. i sent back the  money again.. i dont want to be paid for my silence....

i send to her a long note card explaining my point of view... After a long chat with her, we came on the deal that i delete my review but she put terms and conditions less restrictive and she keeps my money.

That was fine for me... That was important for me that these terms and conditions were less restrictive. So i deleted it.

I also asked that if one day she fix the mesh pants i bought, that she tells me...but i havent heard from her till today...

i never bought again from her store.

On the other hand, i also saw a lot of merchants telling some customers leave bad review just in the purpose to make blackmail.

Sometimes merchants cant deal with honnest bad reviews..

Sometimes customers leave not honnest bad reviews aswell....

This is a tricky topic... and well.. just mute, forget this store and move on.

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Bad reviews are as essential to the health of the Marketplace as the good ones, Sephina, if not more. For sure, there are many, many stupid bad reviews (blaming the merchant for what was the customer's stupidity or SL delivery system's fault, etc), but most other customers can tell those apart, and bad reviews written in fairness are very helpful to red-flag things that the merchant was either not aware of, or not terribly eager to publicize, but that, either way, other customers need to know :smileywink:

Anyway, and not to be nosey... exactly how was this merchant 'harassing' you? It's one thing if he abused you verbally in nonstop IMs, threatened or something... but if all he did was wanting to talk to you to try and set it straight, I wouldn't quite call that 'harassing'. Unless he was exceedingly enthusiastic about it, lol

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Edit your bad review to add in that the pefson is harrassing you.

 

Note for folks in general; if you leave any review good or bad be detailed and be correct...

Many bad reviews are actually a customer using it wrong. Ex; freebie script I give out has a bad review of not working... why? Because it ships in a notecard. You have to take it out of the card and put it into an object to use it... the notecard even describes everything you need to do. But a customer who refused to read the card just felt it wasn't working. I see reviews like this all over marketplace...

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Sephina Frostbite wrote:

Thanks for telling me how to mute. I am glad you stood up for your self. I was offered a refund as well to take down my review. Glad Im not crazy for not wanting it. lol

The last time I left a bad review -- which I don't normally have reason to do -- was after I had contacted the seller to tell him his product was not as advertised and I would like a refund.   He refused, saying the item was no transfer, so I might be scamming him.  I agreed I might be,  but pointed out I'm not in the habit of trying to scam people over less than the price of coffee in Starbucks.  

He then suggested he would give me a refund if I left a good review.    This was not the smartest move he could have made.

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At first I thought it was sweet because I had thought they wanted to fix the product or send me a replacement. This wasnt the case. They kept asking me repeatedly if I tried the demo over and over depite giving my answer, there was no demo. When I told him have a nice day then kept IM me saying to change the review and I will refund you. Then proceded to say they wont go away till I do.

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Yes. 

A while ago I left - not even a 'bad' review - I think I still gave it three stars - but said something I thought was appropriate criticism - sort of 'I wish this aspect of the product had been such and such a way instead.'

Not much time went by, a day if that. I got a nasty IM from the creator. Since they are successful (or were - haven't been since) and made lovely products it surprised me. Why would they be that rattled by one tepid review?

Very bad form, and, lost a loyal customer for SL ever.

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Sephina Frostbite wrote:

At first I thought it was sweet because I had thought they wanted to fix the product or send me a replacement. This wasnt the case. They kept asking me repeatedly if I tried the demo over and over depite giving my answer, there was no demo. When I told him have a nice day then kept IM me saying to change the review and I will refund you. Then proceded to say they wont go away till I do.

Oh, yes, I have gotten way too many IMs like that in reply to a review as well. If a review is anything less than 5 stars I don't even take the time to review it any more.

What some of the folks who react that way don't seem to consider is that any review is better than none. People will ignore reviews that just seem to bash without reason; but if a review gives information another customer might buy the product because now they understand more about that product. The other customers might not agree with the reviewer's preference, but the review still has shared product information and feedback.

I understand all of that, it's tough to hear criticism especially if one feels a creative attachment to something. But, if one's going to be in business, even in a micro economy - one has to behave professionally. Or what? Or lose customers and eventually get a bad reputation.

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Melita Magic wrote:

About reviews and IMs. I've seen that said in the forums too, that customers have an obligation to creators or merchants to IM them first. No, they don't. They just don't. Have your product ready or don't sell it.

It's not a matter of obbligation but common sense, IMHO. 

I have my product ready (and often more than double checked). Then some people buy it and there is a missing piece in the box, or the permissions are wrong/screwed up, or the texture is grey(*). Why go straight for the review instead of contacting the merchant/creator to warn about and/or ask a fix about the issue?

If you buy something boxed in a real store, then at home you see that was of black color instead of red as marked on the box... you first write a bad review on a website/local paper/whatever...  or you go back to the store to warn them and resolve the issue? Unless someone prefers to rant instead to have the correct items that wanted to buy in first stance... 

I mean... If there are issues that can't be fixed in a present product without making a new version (as in the OP case), or the product is not as advertised, or something in it is really bad, ok, go for the review alone.

BUT IF the problem can be a mistake/bug or can be fixed in 5/10 minutes, why choose the long way instead of the short one?

 

(*) Missing parts usually appears back after a relog (client or connection problem?). Permission issues can be a genuine merchant mistake (it's a series of boxes to tik. Often in a sequence. You don't click well enough or don't have the mouse really right over the box and the change is not applied), or SL that again messes up things, as same for the texture. In the last 2 months we had perfectly loaded & applied texture to poof into nothing from objects as well as permission suddenly changed from copy to trans only, or to no perms at all. 

(typo edited)

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Melita Magic wrote:

Yes. 

A while ago I left - not even a 'bad' review - I think I still gave it three stars - but said something I thought was appropriate criticism - sort of 'I wish this aspect of the product had been such and such a way instead.'

Not much time went by, a day if that. I got a nasty IM from the creator. Since they are successful (or were - haven't been since) and made lovely products it surprised me. Why would they be that rattled by one tepid review?

Very bad form, and, lost a loyal customer for SL ever.

seen similar. Had a store owner ban me from his in world store for daring to say to the person I was shopping with that I didn't like how the demo looked on her once.

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jwenting wrote:


Melita Magic wrote:

Yes. 

A while ago I left - not even a 'bad' review - I think I still gave it three stars - but said something I thought was appropriate criticism - sort of 'I wish this aspect of the product had been such and such a way instead.'

Not much time went by, a day if that. I got a nasty IM from the creator. Since they are successful (or were - haven't been since) and made lovely products it surprised me. Why would they be that rattled by one tepid review?

Very bad form, and, lost a loyal customer for SL ever.

seen similar. Had a store owner ban me from his in world store for daring to say to the person I was shopping with that I didn't like how the demo looked on her once.

Wow LOL...Well it's their land but LOL, in my opinion. 

Reviews are a matter of personal opinion and can include the shopping and/or purchasing experience. Can include the atmosphere and customer service issues. Those things are all relevant in a review if those were part of the buyer's personal experience in that shop or with that merchant and product.

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Reeva Hax wrote:


Melita Magic wrote:

About reviews and IMs. I've seen that said in the forums too, that customers have an obligation to creators or merchants to IM them first. No, they don't. They just don't. Have your product ready or don't sell it.

It's not a matter of obbligation but common sense, IMHO. 

I have my product ready (and often more than double checked). Then some people buy it and 
there is a missing piece in the box, or the permissions are wrong/screwed up, or the texture is grey(*). Why go straight for the review instead of contacting the merchant/creator to warn about and/or ask a fix about the issue?

If you buy something boxed in a real store, then at home you see that was of black color instead of red as marked on the box... you first write a bad review on a website/local paper/whatever...  or you go back to the store to warn them and resolve the issue? 
Unless someone prefers to rant instead to have the correct items that wanted to buy in first stance... 

I mean... If there are issues that can't be fixed in a present product without making a new version (as in the OP case), or the product is not as advertised, or something in it is really bad, ok, go for the review alone.

BUT IF the problem can be a mistake/bug or can be fixed in 5/10 minutes, why choose the long way instead of the short one?

 

(*) Missing parts usually appears back after a relog (client or connection problem?). Permission issues can be a genuine merchant mistake (it's a series of boxes to tik. Often in a sequence. You don't click well enough or don't have the mouse really right over the box and the change is not applied), or SL that again messes up things, as same for the texture. 
In the last 2 months we had perfectly loaded & applied texture to poof into nothing from objects as well as permission suddenly changed from copy to trans only, or to no perms at all. 

(typo edited)

I know sometimes people post about things that are SL glitches and not the product's fault. But I think the majority are savvy SLers and are posting about things which relate to the merchant or product. Anything that was part of their customer experience is relevant in the review, note I said customer experience, not SL.

I wanted to reply next specifically to this part:

"I have my product ready (and often more than double checked). Then some people buy it and there is a missing piece in the box, or the permissions are wrong/screwed up, or the texture is grey(*). Why go straight for the review instead of contacting the merchant/creator to warn about and/or ask a fix about the issue?"

No offense but not all merchants do have the product quite ready or as advertised. Some are inexperienced. Some may have less experience in SL than the customer does. Some may have thought it was all finished and the product does not work as it should once the person gets the product.

In short the customer isn't always wrong.

Those things you just named are all things wrong with the product. The customer has no way to know it is SL's fault (and the merchant does not either, in some cases, they could have made a mistake.) It could very well simply be that the merchant was not careful or did not know what they were doing. Not all listings in marketplace are by experienced creators and even they can make mistakes. It's true SL and marketplace can glitch, yes. 

But what really matters is that the customer did not get what they paid for. The review IS the proper place for them to give feedback. Not all creators or merchants will reply, some make people go through a long elaborate process talking to a chain of others about the issue, some make people go through a sim size shop looking for a little thing to click on. In short sometimes the merchant can be a bit difficult or unreasonable themselves. Meet the customer at least halfway. I realize the people who are very very busy with their shops in SL can't do all of that, but some have smaller shops and still can be very tricky or egotistical or complicated to deal with from the customer point of view.

So a review is only permissible if the product is completely different or needs to be completely changed? I disagree. Any flaw in the product can and should be mentioned in a review. Even if it is not the merchant's fault, the other customers have a right to know that's how things currently are, before they buy.

Why wouldn't a missing piece be grounds for a mention in a review? That's a major flaw.

"If you buy something boxed in a real store, then at home you see that was of black color instead of red as marked on the box... you first write a bad review on a website/local paper/whatever...  or you go back to the store to warn them and resolve the issue? Unless someone prefers to rant instead to have the correct items that wanted to buy in first stance... "

So reviewers just like to rant? I don't agree. If I review something I am taking time I could spend on something else and trying to help the creator and customers by writing detailed feedback. I try to lay out the pluses and minuses in an objective way. I give more stars usually than I'd like. I don't think I've ever given fewer than three stars, because I know it's hard to do what creators and merchants do - time consuming at the very least. 

But I'm not going to say a product is as advertised if it is not, or works if it does not, or is full perms if it has no perms, etc., etc. I'm going to say what I just experienced.

No I don't go back to the store and 'warn them' of the issue in real life (I also usually do not Yelp. It has to be extreme.) I do not work for the store. There are numerous quality checkpoints along the way to the customer. If they have sold a defective product and won't return it or are very difficult to deal with, those are valid things for a review, just as the opposite would be.

The customer's place is not to work for the creator or merchant in RL or in SL and alert them to every problem.  If any do that is a favor, not an obligation.  Giving public feedback in a place designed for that is the customer's right. 

I'm very puzzled why anyone would think otherwise.

"I mean... If there are issues that can't be fixed in a present product without making a new version (as in the OP case), or the product is not as advertised, or something in it is really bad, ok, go for the review alone."

The customer can say anything in the review they wish. Ideally it should be fair detailed and accurate. But they aren't being paid by the merchants, and have no obligation to 'warn' them the product is bad.

It is the merchant's obligation to themselves to test the product with alts, to try them again in the wake of an SL disruption or marketplace change, and to write detailed descriptions of their product. Tell people if it's mesh or not. Tell people if it's sculpty or prim. Tell people which parts have which permissions. Tell people if the item is resizeable by hand or by script. Things like that. If that isn't in the description and the person is disappointed in what they receive, they have a perfect right to say why.

I wouldn't have gone to these lengths had you not insulted my 'lack of common sense.'

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First, I never meant to insult you, Melita (never ever!) so, my apologies if I was not clear enough and gave you that impression. My bad. 

Then, If I may: 

"In short the customer isn't always wrong"

I sincerely didn't imagined that what I wrote could be taken as such of the idea that a customer is always wrong. My bad again, evidently, because to me is impossible to think that. 

"So a review is only permissible if the product is completely different or needs to be completely changed"

Nonono, please. I absolutely did not meant that too. I said contact the merchant first or before the review for those things that can be fixed in 5 minutes, as wrong permissions/missing textures/missing parts (basically the ones that can be pacaging mistakes or SL glitches/bugs). I said I agree with the choice of the review alone, without contact the merchant for the other issues that can't be fixed in 5 minutes and that are not possible packaging/SL mistakes

"Why wouldn't a missing piece be grounds for a mention in a review? That's a major flaw"

A little premise if I may. In my direct experience, all the time someone contacted me for a missing piece, the piece was not missing at all from the package. For some strange reason it did not appear in the inventory folder of the buyer (and most of the time popped up after a relog). Of course I always apologized to the customer for the issue and sent immediately a replacement, even knowing was a bug.

Anyway is more than sure that a merchant can make a mistake and leave out a piece when packing the item. But why go for the review alone without contact the merchant in first place, in order to not only speed up things to fix the problem but also help the next customer before the mistake is realized by the merchant her/himself?

"So reviewers just like to rant?"

No, I meant that I do not understand well the ones that leaves the review alone without any contact with the merchant for those rapidly fixable issues listed before (as wrong permissions/missing textures/missing parts - basically the ones that can be packaging mistakes or SL glitches/bugs), and I added that maybe the reason for that kind of approach is just a rant and not a desire to have the correct item.

"The customer's place is not to work for the creator or merchant in RL or in SL and alert them to every problem"

 Of course not. But... don't they want the correct item they decided to purchase? If yes, why not call the merchant? That puzzles me. 

Again, my apologies if my post was not well structured or well explained and could be not understood right.

PS To me the customer is precious and customer care one of the highest priority in a business. The goal is to satisfy and make him/her happy. But is a bit more easy when the customer also helps a tiny little bit in this process :) 

 

ETA: point clarification

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I've answered a lot of the points already, I think.

To reiterate: The customer's job, duty, obligation, whatever, is not to alert the merchant to faults with the product. They have paid for the privilege of enjoying something without further work. Their work ends once you receive their money. (I mean the general 'you.')

The customer cannot read the merchant's mind or know what they were thinking or why the end result was a faulty or flawed product or one not as advertised or expected. Therefore they have no way to know anything will be resolved by going to the merchant.

Also, as I said, some merchants are very difficult, and the customer also has no way to predict which those will be.

The marketplace reviews option exists for a reason. That is where the customer is supposed to leave a review of the product.

It's very simple, in my opinion.

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Reeva Hax wrote:


Melita Magic wrote:

About reviews and IMs. I've seen that said in the forums too, that customers have an obligation to creators or merchants to IM them first. No, they don't. They just don't. Have your product ready or don't sell it.

It's not a matter of obbligation but common sense, IMHO. 

I have my product ready (and often more than double checked). Then some people buy it and 
there is a missing piece in the box, or the permissions are wrong/screwed up, or the texture is grey(*). Why go straight for the review instead of contacting the merchant/creator to warn about and/or ask a fix about the issue?

If you buy something boxed in a real store, then at home you see that was of black color instead of red as marked on the box... you first write a bad review on a website/local paper/whatever...  or you go back to the store to warn them and resolve the issue? 
Unless someone prefers to rant instead to have the correct items that wanted to buy in first stance... 

I mean... If there are issues that can't be fixed in a present product without making a new version (as in the OP case), or the product is not as advertised, or something in it is really bad, ok, go for the review alone.

BUT IF the problem can be a mistake/bug or can be fixed in 5/10 minutes, why choose the long way instead of the short one?

 

(*) Missing parts usually appears back after a relog (client or connection problem?). Permission issues can be a genuine merchant mistake (it's a series of boxes to tik. Often in a sequence. You don't click well enough or don't have the mouse really right over the box and the change is not applied), or SL that again messes up things, as same for the texture. 
In the last 2 months we had perfectly loaded & applied texture to poof into nothing from objects as well as permission suddenly changed from copy to trans only, or to no perms at all. 

(typo edited)

I agree that when its about smth missing or easily to be fixed, im is better and this is what i always do.

In this case, the whole mesh template was crap... i wasnt expecting she redo the all item and reupload 5 sizes of it... there is long time i dont believe anymore in Santa Claus....

The item was only 200 l$... so well, i accepted the fact i lost my money.

but as i often leave a review and as i m honnest, i just wanted to give my opinion about this product because precisely, with such terms of use, the less i was expecting is that the item wasnt so much that crap..... And it was said in a really polite way and not rude at all...

So it was still my right to do. 

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you forget that the typical merchant isn't walmart and just caught off guard when it comes to bad reviews or upset customers. most probably didn't go to business school and have little or no experience in how to deal with things like that. or they just don't care since it's just sl.

i'm not talking about myself as a merchant, i grew up in retail, but just wanted to show you another point of view.

i think i just meant to say don't expect service as from a million/billion dollar corporation that bends over backwards to make you happy.

 

edited caus i always edit

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Paula001 Goldschein wrote:

you forget that the typical merchant isn't walmart and just caught off guard when it comes to bad reviews or upset customers. most probably didn't go to business school and have little or no experience in how to deal with things like that. or they just don't care since it's just sl.

i'm not talking about myself as a merchant, i grew up in retail, but just wanted to show you another point of view.

i think i just meant to say don't expect service as from a million/billion dollar corporation that bends over backwards to make you happy.

 

edited caus i always edit

I wouldn't really use Wal Mart as a good example of customer service...Not sure I follow that analogy.

I did not compare things to real life merchants, only in reply to the question "would you take back a sweater to warn the store it's the wrong color, for other customers' sakes" etc. SL isn't RL - I get that.

But I was specificall replying to the idea that if someone reviews they are 'ranting' instead of being helpful. The idea that the customer has to go and find the merchant and help them do their job.

Yes it's nice if that customer went the extra mile but that is as I siad a favor not the customer's duty. The second part was the customer does have a right to give their assessment of the whole experience.

Even if a merchant is 'caught off guard' by a bad review (and the reviews discussed here sound tepid more so than bad) it is 'common sense' to use a phrase someone said before, for them not to alienate their customers with a rude IM or repeatedly insisting on a 'solution' the customer doesn't want.

Usually in a maladaptive situation someone has begun the behavior due to a past bad experience, in this case, maybe a merchant stopped giving refunds and will only do exchange or credit because too many times someone asked for refunds and there was no known problem with the product. Or for some other unknown reason the merchant became suspicious of past customer behavior toward them. 

I personally think it's best not to alienate the customer unless it's so obvious they are scamming - which is hard to discern in SL. If I had someone demand a refund daily I'd either suspect that's someone with alts or I'd remove my product because clearly something's off. But first I would eliminate all other possibilities including SL glitches and faulty production. I would not fault the customer for either of those. If they are new, that would make them nervous of shopping more in SL, and not only hurt one merchant but many. What does it really cost to refund them or float them a new one?

I don't think someone has to go to business school or have managed a Wal Mart (to  use your example) in order to put themselves in tehcustomer's place and realize how a customer like to be treated. The customer shouldn't be rude either but, aside from that, like I said, their obligation ends with their payment. 

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Trinity Yazimoto wrote:

but as i often leave a review and as i m honnest, i just wanted to give my opinion about this product because precisely, with such terms of use, the less i was expecting is that the item wasnt so much that crap..... And it was said in a really polite way and not rude at all...

So it was still my right to do. 


 

agree 100%

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