Teager Posted August 21, 2013 Share Posted August 21, 2013 For the past few days, I've been having issues with a tiny mesh ferret avatar I created, regarding the z-position at which different users see the avatar appearing. Each user seems to see the avatar at a completely different height: sometimes as high as 2.3 meters above or below the ground, while others will view the exact same avatar at the exact same time at a completely different location.I first noticed that, when I wear the avatar and set the correct z position, my friends would tell me that I was below the ground... and when I relogged, I would appear below the ground for myself as well. Most commonly, relogging would drop my avatar about 0.33 meters downward. I thought 0.33 was the answer - position it 0.33 above the ground, and most people would view you normally.... but this wasn't the case. When I then set out to ask others where they saw me, I discovered as high as a 2.9 meter difference between what I saw (0.4 meters above the ground) and what they saw (2.5 meters below the ground.)I've searched around for a solution to this problem, but can't seem to find one. I saw a few mentions of moving the avatar's pelvis bone to where a standard human's pelvis would be, but this had no effect; reported locations were just as varied as before. I uploaded 24 different mesh files with the pelvis bone all in slightly different locations to check if there was any visible effect in terms of the reported positions being closer together or farther apart, and found no notable difference.I've also witnessed this behavior in a micro avatar I've had on the market for upwards of 6 months; there's never been any issues with seeing the avatar's feet planted firmly on the ground, until I tried it on again today. I assume this change has something to do with SSB, which just went grid-wide. All users who participated in my little experiment are on up to date, SSB enabled viewers - Firestorm 4.4.2, or second life viewer 3.6.3. For a visual example of the issue, the following is an image of boxes rezzed to mark the apparent z-offset of my tiny ferret avatar. All of these were rezzed for the same exact avatar, which has a 0.0 offset applied to the mesh and no animations playing.http://i.imgur.com/ENRaoAg.jpg Are there any savvy tiny or petite creators who have already found a solution for this issue? I would hate to lose my work on this adorable little avatar due to an unexpected viewer bug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rahkis Andel Posted August 21, 2013 Share Posted August 21, 2013 I'm as flummoxed as you are, but I can say pretty confidently that SSB has absolutely nothing to do with the avatar's z-location. It only affects textures. I guess that narrows it down by 1 at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerise Sorbet Posted August 21, 2013 Share Posted August 21, 2013 Rahkis Andel wrote: I'm as flummoxed as you are, but I can say pretty confidently that SSB has absolutely nothing to do with the avatar's z-location. It only affects textures. I guess that narrows it down by 1 at least. SSA affects shapes too. There is a new shape slider for height offset that replaces the old TPV "Z offset" hack. adding -- LL went with "Hover" as the name for that setting, default is 50. The slider is at the bottom of the first ("Body") section of the shape editor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rahkis Andel Posted August 21, 2013 Share Posted August 21, 2013 What does that have to do with preventing bake fail? I don't remember reading about that. Are you sure that's not an unrelated update? Either way, I guess that sounds like a valid enough culprit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerise Sorbet Posted August 21, 2013 Share Posted August 21, 2013 The shape was always part of the same "appearance update" message flow that communicates avatar textures, so it came along for the ride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rahkis Andel Posted August 21, 2013 Share Posted August 21, 2013 Hmm, maybe see if this issue has come up in the bug tracker. If it's a recent "bug", it might still be getting worked on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teager Posted August 22, 2013 Author Share Posted August 22, 2013 I've searched jira several times today for related issues; found this (https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SUN-59) which appears to be the same sort of thing, but less severe. Can't seem to comment to add my two cents. At least I don't seem to be the only one who's noticed an issue. Still, if anyone does come up with a reliable fix, I'm all ears. I've been trying all day to find a workaround. I have noticed that the hover slider appears to be limited by the distance between the foot bone and the pelvis bone; on my poor tiny ferret, with its small legs, it can hardly move down at all. It'll just snap back into place if I try to move the avatar lower than its foot bone (which seems to me like undesired behavior, since the z slider was implemented to compensate for the changes made to shape rendering in SSA.) By moving the foot bones lower than the actual avatar, I managed to increase the amount of distance I'm able to move my shape down, but doing so causes the avatar legs to warp and even move above my head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teager Posted August 23, 2013 Author Share Posted August 23, 2013 I believe I've discovered the source of the problem... In the test in the first image, I was wearing a shape which appears to have been more affected by the new z-offset "hover" property than other shapes I have (I don't know why...) After more research, I think some friends and I have pinned down the actual problem, at least to the point of producing predictable results. The Z-Offset Bug: This new z-offset bug appears to affect all mesh avatars which contain joint positions. It causes mesh avatars to sometimes appear floating in the air or sunken beneath the ground, most often by an offset of plus or minus 0.33 meters above or below where the avatar should display. What causes it? If you were already wearing a mesh avatar and then wear another mesh by right clicking the single mesh object in your inventory and selecting "add" or "wear", your mesh will jump up in the air and hover approximately 0.33 meters above the ground. Your mesh may also jump or sink when you attach or detach objects to your mesh avatar. How do you fix it? Change your shape (for example, wear a different copy of the same shape) Enter "edit appearance" mode and close it without saving any changes to your current shape Right click another folder in your inventory which contains a shape (for example, another copy of your horse avatar) and click "Replace Outfit" Relog How do you avoid it? When changing between one mesh avatar and another, always use the "Replace Outfit" option instead of adding items one by one If you are adding objects one by one, apply your shape last If your avatar appears deformed and you must re-wear your mesh, use one of the four fixes above after re-applying your mesh to assure your feet get back on the ground I've submitted a new jira on this issue. Here's hoping it gets fixed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rahkis Andel Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 Nice. I'm glad you figured it out, because I wouldn't hold my breath on it getting fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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