Meaning of "Payment info on file" has changed.

[Trixie Wyx]

I made a new RP account today, sent over some L$, and made some marketplace purchases. That was enough to switch on "payment info on file" for that account. That must be a side effect of the new payment system on the marketplace.

So if you were relying on PIOF to have some sort of significance, it looks like doesn't any more.

[BrynneBaileigh]

I find that mildly disappointing.  I used to rely on it to weed out those who begged for money and those who could hold their own.  If they had no alt, nor a payment method, I wouldn't deal with them.  Shame.

[Phil Deakins]

Perhaps your new alt uses the same email address as your main, and perhaps LL recognises that the two are the same person. You could test it by creating another alt and using a completely different email address and other information. Separate it completely, do the same again, and see if the PIOF flag gets set. My bet is that it won't. And, of course, don't provide any payment info when you create it

I'm not inclined to accept that merely buying something on the marketplace, or receiving L$ from another avatar, or both together, causes the PIOF flag to be set.

[Syo Emerald]

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BrynneBaileigh wrote:

I find that mildly disappointing.  I used to rely on it to weed out those who begged for money and those who could hold their own.  If they had no alt, nor a payment method, I wouldn't deal with them.  Shame.

---

I find that pretty strange and...not very nice what you said here. Does that mean you think everyone without PIOF is a potentional beggar, a second-class user or someone who is only inworld to cause some trouble?

I have been without PIOF most of the time of my SL existance and I never begged. Instead I was well aware that even someone without PIOF could be well equiped with money. Where did my money come from? It came from contests and working at a club. I had enough to buy me a house and a nice collection of clothes. I didn't looked like a newbie at all. Later I exchanged money with virwox, which gave me an even better financial situation within SL. For you, I would have been still looking like a beggar, I guess, because I still had no PIOF.

I only got PIOF when the ToS change came and services like Virwox were no longer available. I had luck that LL accepted my paypal account, because there was no credit card linked to it. I know of some people from my country who struggled a lot because of the ToS change and because putting a payment info on a profil didn't always worked for all of them.

 

PIOF is/was a two sided sword in my opinion.

[jwenting]

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Syo Emerald wrote:

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BrynneBaileigh wrote:

I find that mildly disappointing.  I used to rely on it to weed out those who begged for money and those who could hold their own.  If they had no alt, nor a payment method, I wouldn't deal with them.  Shame.

---

I find that pretty strange and...not very nice what you said here. Does that mean you think everyone without PIOF is a potentional beggar, a second-class user or someone who is only inworld to cause some trouble?

---

sadly there's a lot such bigotry sadly. Like the idea that everyone who's got a name of "Resident" is an alt or griefer and should be harassed.

Or anyone who's under 1.8 meter is a child avatar and therefore a pedophile.

[Qwalyphi Korpov]

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Trixie Wyx wrote:

I made a new RP account today, sent over some L$, and made some marketplace purchases. That was enough to switch on "payment info on file" for that account. That must be a side effect of the new payment system on the marketplace.

So if you were relying on PIOF to have some sort of significance, it looks like doesn't any more.

---

I doubted this but you are correct.  In fact it isn't necessary to actually make a purchase.  My alt had no 'PIOF.'  He did have some L$.  Logged into market place, picked an item, hit 'buy now' and got a payment method added.  Now he has payment info on file.  Never completed the payment.  No methods other than 'pay with L$'  Here's a picture:

[Vania Chaplin]

Now I understand what happened.

A friend couldn't upload mesh because she had no payment info. One day she asked me why she was marked as PIOF, if never had put a payment in her account, and if she could than make the IP Tutorial. I said her that try wouldn't hurt, thinking it was some bug. But she completed the tuto and is now capable to upload mesh.

In short, LL temselves broke the safeguards they put to upload mesh.

[PeterCanessa Oh]

Yippee!  I gave up trying to add payment info as LL never wanted my money.  Now I might get to upload mesh without it.

[Alicia Sautereau]

Awsome, more content ripping thieves!

No suprise it came from the MP team, they were rather incompitent to begin with...

[Trixie Wyx]

It looks like land access still works the old way.

[Ceka Cianci]

Damn!!

Now i gotta change that order i have on my new T-shirts for "The PIOF Oppressors Of SL" party we were gonna have on laborday!! \o/

 

LL always wreckin mah party favors!!

[Qwalyphi Korpov]

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Trixie Wyx wrote:

It looks like land access still works the old way.

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Which is a new twist on the phrase "you have payment info on file although you don't have payment info on file."

 

 

My alt has PIOF per his web profile.  The legacy profile shows no PIOF.  llRequestAgentData says he has no PIOF.

(& land parcel access is consistent with llRequestAgentData as you said)

Now I can clearly remember (but not find) a thread where I complained that my profile showed that I had PIOF when I didn't.  At one point I'd added it.  Then I removed it.  Someone explained that the profile showing PIOF meant there was payment info on file or at some time in the past there had been payment info on file.

[Czari Zenovka]

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Phil Deakins wrote:

Perhaps your new alt uses the same email address as your main, and perhaps LL recognises that the two are the same person. You could test it by creating another alt and using a completely different email address and other information. Separate it completely, do the same again, and see if the PIOF flag gets set. My bet is that it won't. And, of course, don't provide any payment info when you create it

I'm not inclined to accept that merely buying something on the marketplace, or receiving L$ from another avatar, or both together, causes the PIOF flag to be set.

---

I actually had the same situation happen, Phil.  I have an alt for which I never placed any payment info on the account page.  The same email is used for both.  My main, of course, does have PIOF.  I recently had a reason that the alt needed PIOF  I added payment info to the alt account (the identical source used by my main), and logged the alt back into SL.  Still showing No PIOF. Hmmmm.  A friend said that the account likely needed to have lindens on it.  Transferred lindens from my main - no change in alt status.

Ok, this was getting to be a mystery - I'd set a payment source on the alt, which showed as accepted by LL and now had lindens on the account.  I decided it might be 24 hours (or the next LL business day) until this showed up in world.  Next day - no change.  I was about to contact LL's billing department but, prior to that, I "bought" a free AO on the MP for the alt.  Bingo!  Payment status immediately changed.

Now what I *don't* know is if purchasing (even for 0L) something on the MP in and of itself triggers PIOF or if it is a combination of providing payment info plus purchasing something on the MP or buying lindens.

[Phil Deakins]

My theory was subsequently shown to be wrong. But, then again, you suggested an idea that may resurrect my theory

I.e. maybe buying something in the marketplace, even if it's free, might be used in conjunction with the same email address being used for more than one account.

However, it's probably all down to a typical LL **bleep**-up. That's the most likely explanation.

[nuria Augapfel]

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Vania Chaplin wrote:

Now I understand what happened.

 

A friend couldn't upload mesh because she had no payment info. One day she asked me why she was marked as PIOF, if never had put a payment in her account, and if she could than make the IP Tutorial. I said her that try wouldn't hurt, thinking it was some bug. But she completed the tuto and is now capable to upload mesh.

 

In short, LL temselves broke the safeguards they put to upload mesh.

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Perfect ...  that's a step forward ...(sarcasm). The main reason for the almost inexistent mesh content theft in SL was because PIOF was required to upload it. Let's see what happens now

[Cerise Sorbet]

If only. There was already quite a bit of mesh ripping from SL, let alone the countless meshes for sale that were ripped from other places. The only thing that really has slowed it down, is that the kiddies haven't figured out how to preserve the original rigging information for attachments yet.

[Lantern1984]

I tried buying something on MP with L$ I'd earned working in world, and I can't get payment info on file. I can't afford to buy L$, and now trying to earn them has got alot harder if you don't have payment info on file. Does anyone know a way to get payment info on file without a credit card, gift card, bank account, or paypal?

[Amethyst Jetaime]

You don't need Payment Information on File if you have sufficient $L's in your account to pay for your purchase in $L's.  You only need it to use a charge card or PayPal, or to set up a Marketplace store so you can sell things.

 

[Lantern1984]

You DO need payment info on file if you want to earn more than L$10-15 a day. Fishing and cone jumping used to be the best ways to go, but now half the cones and fishing spots are in skill gaming sims, and those require Payment Info On File to go to. And, you have to have PIOF if you want to sell anything on MP now too. Getting a job as a DJ requires expensive software, and getting one as a host or escort requires that you be able to understand normal conversation (impossible for an autistic like me) and be willing to stare at you screen for hours while nothing happens, not even being able to go AFK, while you wait for a customer to show up. So how does someone with no E-money get payment info on file so we can start cone jumping and fishing again?

[Phil Deakins]

If you don't provide payment information, you don't get payment info on file.

[Amethyst Jetaime]

The OP didn't ask about fishing or opening a MP store.  They asked about buying something on MP.  You don't need PIOF if you have enough L's in your account to cover your purchase.

Going to a skill game region is different.  You do need PIOF for that.

You also need PIOF if you want to open a new MP store.

You must have PIOF, in the form of a Verified PayPal account, if you want to cash out $L's too.

I have never heard that you have to have PIOF if you want to earn more than L$10-15 a day.  Many people without PIOF have MP stores they opened before the requirement of PIOF was established and earn that  or more.  So not sure what you are talking about and think you are wrong about that.  However if it is true, please provide a link to an official document or web page where this is stated. 

[Lantern1984]

It's not an official number, just an estimate for cone jumpers. For more on cone jumping, see http://bletaverse.com/ But about half the cones are in sims that require PIOF now. I say "about half", as I can't go into those sims to count them and get an exact number. But I know that I run out of cones I CAN use in half the time I used to. You can only use any given cone once per day, some less than that (once every 2 days, once a week, etc.). So once you've used all the cones, you can't earn any more L$ that way 'till the next day. Now there is a bonus for whoever jumps the most cones, but folks who have no PIOF can't try for that top spot (folks in deep red states get held up too, but that's a separate complaint for a separate thread). In effect, those who can't afford L$ also can't earn them (or at least very many of them) through sheer hard work and patience. Sure, we can make a few L$ here and there, but it's a drop in the bucket compared to what folks with PIOF can make, even if they don't buy them. And though I don't fish myself (I never could get the hang of it), I'm told by those who do that they have been hit by a similar road block.

And yes, I opened a MP shop before the new rule went in, and yes, I have a couple items for sale. But since I can't think of anything to make that anyone wants to buy, I'm not making any L$ that way. I don't blame LL's ToS for that, just a sucky economy and my own poor imagination. I have 3 items, and they aren't exactly flying off the shelves.

[Amethyst Jetaime]

The cone jumping thing is an entirely different matter.  You still aren't required to have PIOF to play, you are just limited to where you can play because some landowners require PIOF to enter.

The cones are owned by the landowner who is paying the money.  If people are using them to attract business it makes sense to require PIOF, otherwise they'd get a lot of people taking their money without spending any.  A losing proposition for the owner.  Sure there are going to be people with PIOF that don't buy anything, but some people do.  If the money spent on the land is more than what is paid out, the landowner can afford to offer the game.  If not, there is no point in offering the game just to lose money.