This is it! Project Sunshine Goes Grid-Wide!

[Theresa Tennyson]

---

Czari Zenovka wrote:

 

At the time I was using the last pre-mesh Phoenix viewer, ran the lowest possible graphics, and the highest I could have my draw distance if I wanted to move was 64m.  People wearing mesh looked...interesting.  I was blessed to be gifted money so I could purchase a new PC but, if I'm understanding correctly, Project Sunshine/SSB/SSA also needs the SEE2-enabled chip in the PC and I *think* that is what brujamai is referring to. 

 

---

It don't think SSE2 is technically necessary for server-side appearance - it really doesn't involve graphics changes. However, I doubt any viewer developers will bother to update any viewers that don't support mesh and therefore don't require SSE2. It's similar to wanting someone to make a converter to patch an MP3 player through an 8-track car stereo. It's POSSIBLE - you just need to find someone who thinks it's worth the trouble.

[Cerise Sorbet]

---

Theresa Tennyson wrote:

---

Czari Zenovka wrote:

 

At the time I was using the last pre-mesh Phoenix viewer, ran the lowest possible graphics, and the highest I could have my draw distance if I wanted to move was 64m.  People wearing mesh looked...interesting.  I was blessed to be gifted money so I could purchase a new PC but, if I'm understanding correctly, Project Sunshine/SSB/SSA also needs the SEE2-enabled chip in the PC and I *think* that is what brujamai is referring to. 

 

---

It don't think SSE2 is technically necessary for server-side appearance - it really doesn't involve graphics changes. However, I doubt any viewer developers will bother to update any viewers that don't support mesh and therefore don't require SSE2. It's similar to wanting someone to make a converter to patch an MP3 player through an 8-track car stereo. It's POSSIBLE - you just need to find someone who thinks it's worth the trouble.

---

Yeah, the SSE2 requirement went in with a handful of math functions a few years ago, not with SSA itself. No one with an old enough computer to test on, who also knows how to program, has been inspired to write replacements. Back then, LL decided to let it go because it was already less than 1% of the user base.

There are lots more than these, but the current versions of Windows, Office, Unity3D and Photoshop all require SSE2. Those are considered to be mainstream instructions now.

In the case of Photoshop, Adobe dropped support because they tried (both on eBay and through AMD) to get some very old machines to test on, and the machines they were able to get were all either DOA, or died within a few months. So, they finally gave up.

[brujamai Jun]

Do not think it's worth millions of users that have my same problem worldwide, we can see the other avatars???
We can see textures mesh ... but until this crisis is over and we can buy current pc can continue living in secondlife, with smaller viewfinders and simple V.1
Developers who implement their viewers V.1 SSA will make us all happy, make many people happy is worth more than all the gold in the world.
I think so, if I was a developer and had the chance to make that change I would do and I would feel very happy to know that many people can continue to live their second life thanks to my ...

////

No crees que merece la pena que millones de usuarios que se que tienen mi mismo problema en todo el mundo, podamos ver a los demas avatares ???
No podremos ver texturas  mesh  ... pero  hasta que esta crisis  pase y podamos comprar pc actuales podremos seguir viviendo en secondlife, con visores mas pequeños y sencillos V.1
Los desarrolladores que implanten SSA  en sus visores  V.1 haran felices a  todos nosotros, hacer feliz a mucha gente vale mas que todo el oro del mundo.
Yo pienso asi,  si yo fuera desarrolladora y tuviera la posibilidad de hacer ese cambio lo haria y me sentiria muy feliz de saber que mucha gente puede seguir viviendo su segunda vida gracias a mi...

[brujamai Jun]

To use secondlife and live in is not necessary SSE2, always ran with SSE, that requirement was increased to see the textures MESH.
I use all these programs in previous versions without SSE2.
Activity V.1 viewers to secondlife with different developers, and see and move in the world seconlife perfectly, the problem is not SSE2,,,
The problem is, the implantation of SSA .... the new rendering of avatars, have not thought V.1 viewers that believe it or not there are many people that have to use because they do not have our pc .... SSE2 .. we can not use the last viewers to that if they added the SSA code.
We see everyone perfect secondlife, see our perfect avatar, we can move building, dancing etc. ...... BUT ........ we see the other avatars gray as when muteamos.
I imagine that any developer will be able to implement the code in your viewfinder V.1 SSA.
The world secondlife, long ago that this little import dehumanizing and the people who live in, go forward in new techniques, regardless of the users to stay on the road.
It's a shame, I die in secondlife until you can buy another pc, my only salvation is to implement the SSA IN V.1

///////

Para usar secondlife y vivir en el no es necesario SSE2, siempre corrio con SSE, se aumento ese requerimiento para poder ver las texturas  MESH.
Yo uso todos esos programas en versiones anteriores sin tener SSE2.
Entro a secondlife con visores V.1 de distintos desarrolladores, y veo y me muevo en el mundo seconlife perfectamente , el problema no es  SSE2,,,
Es problema es la implantacion de SSA.... la nueva  renderizacion de los avatares , no han pensado en los visores V.1 que aunque no lo crean hay mucha gente que los tiene que usar porque al no tener nuestros pc....SSE2..no podemos usar los ultimos visores a los que si se les ha añadido el codigo SSA.
Vemos todo el mundo secondlife perfecto, vemos nuestro avatar perfecto, podemos movernos construir, bailar, etc........PERO......vemos a los demas avatares grises como cuando muteamos.
Imagino que ningun desarrollador va a ser capaz de implantar el codigo SSA en su visor V.1.
El mundo secondlife,, hace tiempo que se esta deshumanizando y poco importamos las personas que vivimos en el, hay que ir hacia delante en nuevas tecnicas, sin importar los usuarios que se queden en el camino.
Es una pena, yo muero en secondlife  hasta que pueda comprar otro pc, mi unica salvacion es implantar ese SSA   EN   V.1

[KarenMichelle Lane]

---

brujamai Jun wrote:

Do not

think

it's worth

millions

of users

that have my

same problem

worldwide

,

we can

see the

other

avatars

?

?

?

We can

see

textures

mesh ...

but

until this

crisis is over

and

we can buy

current

pc

can

continue living in

secondlife,

with

smaller

viewfinders

and

simple

V.1

Developers who

implement

their

viewers

V.1

SSA

will make

us all

happy

,

make

many people happy

is worth more

than all the gold

in the world.

I think

so

, if I was

a developer and

had the chance to

make that change

I would do

and

I would feel

very happy to know

that many people

can continue to live

their

second life

thanks to my

...

 

---

Brujamai,

Exactly what crisis are you referring to? Some inability to access SecondLife? Using V1 Viewer Software Technology? The use of pre-SSE & SSE2 CPU instruction sets?  Unfortunately, Software Developers move on and they need to purchase or develop Deployable Software Function Libraries that support the mainstream PCs being sold in today's market. Operational 10+ year old PCs without SSE or SSE2 capability are rare these days.

PCs are being displaced/replaced by businesses every 4-6 years. Home users hang onto PCs a bit longer.

The introduction of SSE by Intel in 1993 provided a huge benefit to the Graphics Operation of the PC and soon became the de facto standard for all Intel Architectures. AMD followed suite in 2000. So we are talking about well utilized proven CPU instructions that make up the main part of high speed graphics CPU  instructions embraced industry wide. PCs using processors that don;t support SSE & SSE2 are very rare these days and make up such a small "market" that no one is designing port-backs to the days when SSE didn't exist. SSE2 was introduced in 2001 and embraced very quickly as 64-bit CPU technology was being introduced and this allowed the use of faster vector operations.

When the SL Viewer made SSE2 processors a requirement it wasn't done to exclude old pre SSE2 CPUs, it was done to bring all the additional features that were being asked for by the SL community and to keep up with the industry. Mesh is a reality now,

Not related to the SSE2 requirement, Linden Lab left the old V1 design behind as well. Others embraced the V.1 design and poured hours of mods into it for years to keep it alive a bit longer. Linden Lab implemented a number of new features the only way possible using a combination of the new Viewer architecture + the use of the SSE2 Instruction sets found on the modern processors that make up 95+ % of the working PCs in the World.

SSE2 CPUs being required is a fact of life. The V3 style viewer is as well the future of SecondLife. The V.1 viewer is a thing of the past. The world moves forward. Linden Lab is moving forward as well. LL is responding to the demand of it's customers for more realistic environments, real 3D, a totally emersive SL will be needed soon to maintain LLs position as a leader in the Virtual World Community.

P.S. It is always sad when someone realizes that their PC is antiquated and can't run not only SecondLife but other modern software. Becrying this fact of life does no good in reality. It does allow us to reflect on the past and the way things were. But the reality is that we move on and embrace the future.

 

[Dresden Ceriano]

---

KarenMichelle Lane wrote:

P.S. It is always sad when someone realizes that their PC is antiquated and can't run not only SecondLife but other modern software. Becrying this fact of life does no good in reality. It does allow us to reflect on the past and the way things were. But the reality is that we move on and embrace the future.

---

It amazes me that people can get by running SL on such old hardware.  When I first started SL, my computer was so old I could hardly get around... it was so frustrating that I just stopped logging in for months.  Luckily, I came into a nice chunk of unexpected money and was able to build myself a decent computer and one for my sister as well.  We joined at the same time and I knew that if we were going to be in SL together, we'd need our own computers instead of sharing one and being on at different times like we were before.

Now, I don't usually have a whole lot of money and I surely could have spent that money on something else, but it was important to me that I was able to do that for myself and my sister.  And I was right... it paid off big time, because ever since, we've both been really into SL and loved being able to do it together.

Over the years, I've upgraded both of our computers little by little, whenever we could pull together some cash for parts... which wasn't a cake walk by any means.  But I did it because it was important to me that we be able to use SL comfortably.  It's not like it was a top priority, but it was always there and even though I have little disposable income to speak of, I was able to keep up rather well despite that.

Some people may think me horrible for saying this, but I have very little sympathy for someone that hasn't upgraded their computer for years and years; then wants to complain when they can't get it to do what it to do and acts like it's somebody's fault besides their own.  If someone with as little resources as I, can manage to put together a little bit of money to upgrade in small increments, over time, there's no reason why they shouldn't have been able to do the same.  If they've chosen not to make it a priority for themselves, that's nobody's fault but their own.

...Dres

[brujamai Jun]

But who said that I have not improved my team? '.
Improve my chart that this new one has less than a year, increase my RAM, which only had 256 megs to 2 gigs .... implant sinks to not warm.
But the processor can not be improved, it should just change the whole motherboard, and thus is not worth anything or RAM or graphics, or a network card, nothing.

Can not update more if I could not implant the code would ask that viewers SSA V.1


My pc is updated, but the processor can not be upgraded, you have to change the whole entire motherboard.

If they let the viewers have the code V.1 SSA. do not need a new pc.

And do not think that fabor upgrade my PC.
My pc took care of him as if my baby is perfect but I can not and can not expand.

It's easier to mess the code viewers SSA V.1
And each user can use the viewer that you can use V.3 better for you since the last such I can not use it because I use the V.1
It's like cars, you have purchasing power to have a late model Mercedes for that well for you, I can only have a Nissan Primera as I drive but cheaper.

I'm sorry you did not understand me and think I'm a bad person who does not take care of your pc, because it is not so ....

////

Pero quien ha dicho que yo no haya mejorado mi equipo??'.
Mejore mi grafica que esta nueva tiene menos de un año, aumente  mi RAM,,,que solo tenia  256 megas a  2 gigas....implante disipadores para que no se calentara.
Pero el procesador no se puede mejorar, solo cabe cambiar toda la placa base, y con ello ya no vale nada ni RAM ni grafica, ni tarjeta de red, ni nada.

No se puede actualizar mas, si pudiera no pediria que implantes el codigo SSA  en visores V.1


Mi pc  esta actualizado, pero el procesador no se puede actualizar, hay que cambiar toda la placa base entera.

Si dejan que los visores V.1 tengan el codigo SSA ,. no es necesario un pc nuevo.

Y por fabor no pienses que no actualizo mi PC.
Mi pc lo cuido como si fuera  mi  bebe, esta  perfecto pero ya no puedo ampliarlo no se puede.

Es mas facil que metan el codigo SSA en visores V.1
Y cada usuario que use el visor que pueda tu puedes  usar  V.3 pues  mejor para ti estas a la ultima yo no puedo usarlo  pues  uso el V.1
Es como los coches, tu tienes poder  adquisitivo para tener un  Mercedes ultimo modelo pues que bien para ti, yo solo puedo tener un Nissan Primera pues voy en coche pero mas barato.

Siento mucho que no me comprendas y que pienses que soy una mala persona que no cuida su pc, porque no es asi....

 

[PeachJubilee]

I just noticed now when I couldn't do a temp upload...so a lot of people might never notice.  My avatar still looks fine after all.

[Czari Zenovka]

---

PeachJubilee wrote:

I just noticed now when I couldn't do a temp upload...so a lot of people might never notice.  My avatar still looks fine after all.

---

People who read and/or post on the SL forums are a teeny fraction of SL users.  In talking to people in world, if I mention the SL forums many, many times people respond, "SL has forums?!?!"  There are scads of people in world who socialize, dance, do whatever, and don't care about *how* things happen to make it so, just that it *does* so I'm not a bit surprised that many people would be unaware. 

For months after the Magic Boxes were shut down in lieu of Direct Delivery for the MP, people came to the Merchant Forums saying their Magic Boxes wouldn't work and DD was announced and then in place quite awhile before the MBs were finally shut off.

 

[Melita Magic]

The lads have trouble with morale because things are breaking down but then they turn that frown upside down.

Song starts at 2:55.

 

[Dresden Ceriano]

---

brujamai Jun wrote:

But

who said

that I have not

improved my

team?

'

.

Improve

my chart

that

this new one has

less than a year

, increase

my

RAM

,

which

only had

256

megs

to

2 gigs

....

implant

sinks

to not

warm

.

But

the processor

can not be improved

,

it should

just

change the whole

motherboard,

and thus

is not worth

anything or

RAM

or

graphics

,

or a network card

, nothing.

 

Can not update

more

if I could

not

implant

the code

would ask

that

viewers

SSA

V.1

 

 

My

pc

is updated

,

but the processor

can not be upgraded

, you have to

change the whole

entire motherboard

.

 

If

they let the

viewers

have

the code

V.1

SSA

.

do not need

a new pc

.

 

And

do not think that

fabor

upgrade my

PC

.

My

pc

took care of him

as if

my baby

is perfect

but

I can

not

and

can not

expand

.

 

It's easier

to

mess

the code

viewers

SSA

V.1

And

each user

can

use the

viewer that

you can use

V.3

better for you

since

the

last

such

I can

not

use it

because

I

use

the

V.1

It's

like cars

, you have

purchasing power to

have a

late model

Mercedes

for

that

well for you,

I can only

have a

Nissan Primera

as

I

drive

but

cheaper.

 

I'm sorry you

did not

understand me

and

think I'm

a bad

person who does not

take care of your

pc,

because it is not

so

....

////

Pero quien ha dicho que yo no haya mejorado mi equipo??'.

Mejore mi grafica que esta nueva tiene menos de un año, aumente  mi RAM,,,que solo tenia  256 megas a  2 gigas....implante disipadores para que no se calentara.

Pero el procesador no se puede mejorar, solo cabe cambiar toda la placa base, y con ello ya no vale nada ni RAM ni grafica, ni tarjeta de red, ni nada.

 

No se puede actualizar mas, si pudiera no pediria que implantes el codigo SSA  en visores V.1

 

 

Mi pc  esta actualizado, pero el procesador no se puede actualizar, hay que cambiar toda la placa base entera.

 

Si dejan que los visores V.1 tengan el codigo SSA ,. no es necesario un pc nuevo.

 

Y por fabor no pienses que no actualizo mi PC.

Mi pc lo cuido como si fuera  mi  bebe, esta  perfecto pero ya no puedo ampliarlo no se puede.

 

Es mas facil que metan el codigo SSA en visores V.1

Y cada usuario que use el visor que pueda tu puedes  usar  V.3 pues  mejor para ti estas a la ultima yo no puedo usarlo  pues  uso el V.1

Es como los coches, tu tienes poder  adquisitivo para tener un  Mercedes ultimo modelo pues que bien para ti, yo solo puedo tener un Nissan Primera pues voy en coche pero mas barato.

 

Siento mucho que no me comprendas y que pienses que soy una mala persona que no cuida su pc, porque no es asi....

 

---

I didn't say you were a bad person... in fact, I was talking about you specifically.  Everyone makes decisions in life, I made the decision to invest in a new computer when I got the opportunity and also decided to upgrade it further when I could scrape the money together to do so.  I could've easily spent the money on something else, but building a nice computer that I knew would last for a while with minor upgrades was high on my list of priorties.  I consider it an investment that paid off big time.

If I had decided to go another route and ended up not being able to keep up with the improvements of SL, the last thing I'd do is come here and complain about it.  And never would I even consider demanding that someone make a viewer that would run only certain parts of SL and not others.

If you really want a viewer that works with SSA, without requiring SSE2, then maybe you should consider coding it yourself... because the chances of anyone else doing it for you is slim to none.

...Dres

[GreyMornes]

yet again another half baked "feature" from Linden Labs.  yeah it seems to work on some sims but i find on many others it still takes FOREVER and i mean FOREVER to load avatars. often times you are stuck with almost every avatar in the sim your in as grey and you have to wait and wait and wait and wait until the danged thing updates and downloads their avies.

and i hate to say it now with the Rift support you can tell how low quality second life avatars really are. honestly the whole game needs to be updated to better quality models but if they did that it would slow down everything more.

sighs. corse to be honest second life has gone to the pots lately, there are a lot of immature young teens who seem to like to populate the game lately (why is it that all the girls who use that one youngish looking skin type are ALL the same?) half of the peopel dont even speak english (what is it some great second life adveritising or something in other countries that they are not doing in the US or something?) and those who do usually are pretty rude.

second life used to be more interesting years ago now. its OK. but has a lot of issues still.  and honestly the entire thing needs a revamp hardware wise ., better graphics, and avatar model quality would be nice even on the rifts low res screen you can tell that the detail of avatars up close is pretty low.  you can have nice skins but because the polygons of second life avatars are so low its not that detailed mesh helps a bit......but yeah.

and lag is still bad,  i almost hate to say that second life might need to go to a preset database of items instead of having to rez everything would really help on the load and lag times you know?

i dunno.  either way the new update to me doesnt seem that much better....and gee i wonder how long will it take LL to release the oculus rift offical viewer? they said the CEO said by the end of the summer but then another linden said we dont know when......funny how it took just one person in a 3rd party viewer to get the rift to work when LL failed to do so.

i mean LL instead of getting it perfect could have simply made a viewer like he did with NO UI but the ability to enter rift mode with a toggle. how hard would that have been?

anyways whatever.  not that impressed with Linden Lab lately and im really suprised that second life is actually doing as well as it is considering....if IMVU had better graphics and option to be able to enter areas with MORE then just 10 people at at ime it would be way better then second life.........

[Coby Foden]

---

GreyMornes wrote:

...

Linden Labs

...

---

:smileysurprised:

 

 

http://lindenlab.com/

 

:matte-motes-yawn: :matte-motes-wink:

 

[KarenMichelle Lane]

---

GreyMornes wrote:

...it seems to work on some sims but I find on many others it still takes FOREVER and I mean FOREVER to load avatars. Often times you are stuck with almost every avatar in the sim your in as grey and you have to wait and wait and wait and wait until the danged thing updates and downloads their avies.

...and lag is still bad,  I almost hate to say that second life might need to go to a preset database of items instead of having to rez everything would really help on the load and lag times you know?

I dunno.  either way the new update to me doesnt seem that much better

---

Thank you for your thoughts regarding the Project Sunshine rollout - I hope you don;t mind but I only quoted the text from your comments that applied to the Sunshine project.

So far based on the comments in the forums and my own chatting in-world with 100's of friends and business owners we've generally seen very dramatic improvements in avatar rezzing speeds with the exception of those individuals with slow or unreliable internet connections. Another source of issues seems to be with updates made to the viewers [Official SL and/or Firestorm  + others] where a clean install was not performed.

I do see that those who have been using very old viewer release are having the most difficulty with the newer viewer UIs and will often notice a performance hit as a result. 

Your notion about the pre-set database is totally unworkable by design as  the SL environment is dynamic. None of us want an IMVU limited view of graphics and the world we interact with. User built worlds with original goods for sale is why so many of us are here. A Static Gaming environment is not.

 

[Jaffee Gaffer]

It's great that you fixed something that wasn't really broken at all, and made sure that it was broken big time now.  I'm running two different viewers, both updated for SSA code, and BOTH are failing at updating avatar textures.  It might be good for LL to implement what we in software development used to call ALPHA and BETA TESTING (in house) before releasing products.  But it's okay.  All I have to do is RELOG in order to update my avatar's appearance.  No problem at all.

Oh, and before you blame me for the problems, I'm on a lightning fast connectionn (30mpbs down, 6mbps up).  Everyone I know is having problems with SSA, so don't expect me to believe it's working fine.  I know LL's software releases too well.

--Not a happy camper.

[Czari Zenovka]

---

Jaffee Gaffer wrote:

It's great that you fixed something that wasn't really broken at all, and made sure that it was broken big time now.  I'm running two different viewers, both updated for SSA code, and BOTH are failing at updating avatar textures.  It might be good for LL to implement what we in software development used to call ALPHA and BETA TESTING (in house) before releasing products.  But it's okay.  All I have to do is RELOG in order to update my avatar's appearance.  No problem at all.

Oh, and before you blame me for the problems, I'm on a lightning fast connectionn (30mpbs down, 6mbps up).  Everyone I know is having problems with SSA, so don't expect me to believe it's working fine.  I know LL's software releases too well.

 

--Not a happy camper.

---

I'm experiencing pretty much the same thing.   With my new PC I can now go to places where there are groups of avatars.  The good news is I can move within a club of 50 avatars without lag.  Woot!!!  The bad news is, even after a half hour, the majority of the avatars are still gray.  I've tried taking the graphics settings down to low with lower draw distances, using the medium setting, fiddling with the various graphics settings ie. trying to see if disabling some would help, etc.  It doesn't seem to make any difference.

Prior to my new PC, I was using a 10-year-old rig.  I couldn't move very well in the same club, but avatars didn't stay gray for very long.  That was pre-SSA.  Something wrong with this picture.  :matte-motes-bored:

[Dresden Ceriano]

---

Jaffee Gaffer wrote:

It's great that you fixed something that wasn't really broken at all

---

*rolls eyes*

It's as if people have suddenly developed amnesia and forgotten the years and years of bake fails, seeing people differently than they see themselves, waiting forever for one texture to change while getting dressed and a multitude of other issues the old way of baking avatar textures created.  I don't discount the fact that SSA may be causing some problems for some people, but for a lot of people, it has improved their use of SL in a major way... I know it has mine.

...Dres

[PeterCanessa Oh]

---

Jaffee Gaffer wrote:

(1) It's great that you fixed something (2) that wasn't really broken at all, and made sure that it was broken big time now.  (3) I'm running two different viewers, both updated for SSA code, and BOTH are failing at updating avatar textures. ...

... (4) I'm on a lightning fast connectionn (30mpbs down, 6mbps up).  (5) Everyone I know is having problems with SSA ...

---

1.  WE haven't fixed anything, being residents just like you.

2.  Avatar baking always had problems; there are fewer people complaining about it now than there used to be.

3.  The point of SSA is that the viewers don't update avatar textures any more, hence 'server side'.

4.  But how reliable and stable is your connection? Ping, packet loss and jitter matter far more than speed.

5.  Now you know someone who isn't.

You are right, of course, that LL's software isn't so much released as escapes but SSA seems to be one of their better attempts so far.