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KlistiesSeMio Ewinaga

Curious question about furries in RP

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kemonomimi means  animal ears..

Neko means cat..

I see plenty of human and non human avs that make my 6'5" human seem like a child av. 

you may not set foot in a western sim without finding out the approved races but i know there are plenty of furries that dont give a rats A$$ about the rules. and a few bad apples spoil the whole orchard in this case.

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I know, that's why I said the popularity of kemonomimi in anime is what gave rise to the most common version of that trope, the nekos.

I'm so confused where you guys travel to in your sl journeys because I have a hard time finding overly tall people anymore. What sims do you frequent? What type of places? I can't even remember the last time I saw an 'amazon' type person. Am I being a recluse??

And the bad apples need to check themselves because they are ruining the fun for everyone. If you can't respect RP sim rules, WHY ARE YOU TRYING TO RP IN THE FIRST PLACE.

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Speaking as a Fur / Scalie who occasionally dabbles in RP my take on things is: If they insist on human-only then they've lost not only my support and business forever but that of my friends both SL & RL. FWIW, both Caledon and New Babbage are fur-friendly steampunk RP regions.

Deshima was a furry SF RP sim but it seems to have gone offline. There are good content creators within the SL furry community so there is the possibility of creating fur-friendly RP environment.

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KlistiesSeMio Ewinaga wrote:

Nevermind Candii they've been trolling around the forums.

 

There was an rp place I joined for a whole three days before it got shut down due to the owners having some issues but they were an urban rp sims that allowed furries and there were furs playing as fire dept. Police, one owned/ran a shop like??? What's the problem here?

I didn't see anyone avoiding the furs, they just went about their business rping like usual and nothing was distracting.
I'm guessing there's just racism against furs due to uneducated stereotypes
and that's really depressing in a virtual world where you can literally run around as a giant strawberry and nobody cares.

It goes both ways, I have been the subject of ridicule at a furry sim i was TPed to by one of my furry friends. Most of the furs there insulted me or talked down to me because i was a human at the time. People are people no matter where you go, and there are A$$hats in every group.

I think the big thing we all need to remember is that we are all human behind the avatars. except for Perrie.. i firmly believe he is a martian.

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Most furries will assume that a human who enters their clubs and hangouts is there to cause trouble, because every griefer at this kind of place and similar places is also always human. Its not usual to have someone human visiting a furry sim. Together with the anti-non-human attitude (this affects not just furries) the encounter in many places or the feeling of not being equal because of their avatarchoice, I guess this leads to some furries behaving this way.

 

Its not just furries and not just RP sims...its everywhere and affects everyone who choses not to be completely human. Many places don't allow anything that is not pure human...for no obvious reason. Sadly other non-human avatars don't have a community background to open their own clubs like the furries do.

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Drake1 Nightfire wrote:


I think the big thing we all need to remember is that we are all human behind the avatars. except for Perrie.. i firmly believe he is a martian.

I generally avoid the Furry SIM's.

I don't know whta it is but for some reason when they see me they think DINNER.

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KlistiesSeMio Ewinaga wrote:

As for your replies: who in the world are you hanging out with?? Have you been to any of the big fashion and home design events lately? (famashed, colabor88, the arcade, etc) Where are you seeing these supposed 7-8' tall (human) avatars? Please point to them for me - I must be blind.

  You're not blind, just ill-informed.

 The height displayed in the official appearance editor and many scripted height detectors is significantly off. It's a bug that LL has known about for nearly 5-6 years now, at least, but you know how great LL is about fixing bugs.

 On top of that, many of the extremely large avatars, such as the mesh and prim based ones you linked to, use tricks to get even larger than their base mesh size, and base mesh size is the only thing any scripted height detector or appearance editor can read. So they're completely useless for measuring any such avatars.

 The only 100% accurate method for measuring avatar height is to hop on a pose stand and stretch a prim from the base of its feet to the top of its skull.


KlistiesSeMio Ewinaga wrote:

I think you're confused about what is considered 'toony' in the fur community.
.

 

 It doesn't matter what the fur community considers "toony", what matters is what the RP sims you're trying to get into consider "toony". The avatars you linked to as examples of non-toonish furrry avatars are still pretty decidedly cartoonish compared to characters like the Khajiit, which was the comparison you were making.


KlistiesSeMio Ewinaga wrote:

You also have to keep in mind, the Skyrim team had years, a professional team, and lots of funding to get the design spot on with the Khajiit and the Argonians. The teams that make the avatars, while incredibly talented no matter their style, are not working under the same circumstances AT ALL and holding them to that standard is both rude (in the 'you'll never be good enough for me' sense) and unrealistic. I'm not saying it's impossible, but it's also not likely.

 

 You're misinformed and misunderstanding.

First, we're not talking about quality, we're talking about aesthetic style.  It requires no more effort to make an avatar in the style of the Khajiit than it does to make one in the style of the avatar examples you were linking to. There was nothing wrong with the quality of the avatars you linked to, we are talking purely about aesthetic style.

 Second of all, you don't seem to know much about game design. Those artists aren't given years to slowly develope a single character model, they are working in a high-perssure environment to turn out quality work quickly.  If we're talking quality, there is nothing at all rude about making comparisons between  SL avatar creators with professionals. Artists thrive on comparisons and criticism to improve their own work and there's nothing unrealistic about someone making SL avatars honing the skill and talent to make game quality art, in terms of pure artistic skill many are already there. 

 

 That misunderstanding is where a lot of your problems come from. You see RP sims that you feel should be allowing these furry avatars when, to the people running the sim, they clearly do not fit in the theme they are trying to foster.

 The rest of your post shows you're far too focused on your percieved victimization. I was providing my own avatar as an example of a non-furry avatar that also does not fit in many types of RP sims (and even said as much in the very sentence you quoted) and how, if I wanted to go to such an RP sim I'd have to change my appearance. Your bending over backwards to show how you're so much more victimized kinda backfires because if I went with a more traditional minotaur avatar, like the example you gave, I'd actually be able to RP that in many more sims because it's a widely accepted, "safe", fantasy creature. So, in that regard, I did not go with the "safe route", I went with what appealed to me.

 

 Look, I'm just pointing out why many RP sims do not allow furries. Unfortunately, you're doing a very good job of showing why those same RP sims disallow furries with such hostility.  A lot of what you consider "non-cartoonish" and would fit in an environment such as Skyrim, really isn't and would look very out of place. When this is pointed out to you, you get very defensive and try to argue the point. The sim owners set the tone and themes of the sim, if your avatar doesn't fit within that theme an d setting as envisioned by the sim owners, arguing with them isn't going to change their minds.

 

 Rather than lamenting that non-furry RP sims don't allow furries, it might be more constructive to question why there's so few furry RP sims? There's never seemed to be very many of those and that's always confused me. There's certainly a lot of furry role-players, but they don't seem to have very many places to go. Most furry locations I've seen have been sandboxes, residential and dance clubs.

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TL;DR since I'm really tired of fighting when I didn't even mean for this to happen thanks so much guys A+ you wore the part time fur down congrats I bet you're all proud.

---

I just wanted to know why people hated on furs in general, and in rp because I noticed this consistent banning.

I got my answer by all the convoluted and half hearted attempts at explanation.

I do NOT WANT PREVIOUSLY EXISTING RP SIMS to open up for furs because THAT DOES NOT MAKE SENSE. WHEN DID I SAY I WANTED THIS?

I was just wondering WHY.

You guys say I am hostile, well of course I'm hostile, you're backing me into a corner and claiming I am going to fly into a sim wearing a 8' tall bright pink husky avatar with glowing eyes and a cyberpunk outfit in an urban rp. Because of course that's what all the other furs do so I guess that means I am going to do much the same. Okay.

You claim all furs ignore the rules and want them bent to their whims and troll sims who don't do so, and I'm sure some do. But please, tell me when I said I came into a sim demanding they change for me? PLEASE. I'm VERY INTERESTED to find when I did this. Maybe I blacked out for a while a few years ago.

Please also tell me how I need to change and adapt to the sim, when I TOLD YOU ALL THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT I'VE BEEN DOING FOR YEARS. Please, keep telling me I need to conform to the sims rules and standards. Please. I don't think I've heard enough about what I've been doing already.

Basically, I was just expressing a wish to rp with my fur avis that I worked hard on to mod. I now see that will never happen. That's fine, I just wondered if there was any way that I could do this. I'll get over it. I'll be upset, but it's not the end of the world. I'll just wear those avis out shopping and when I'm chilling with friends.

I've never been kicked out an rp sim before and I don't plan to start now. I'll just stick with my pretty human avatars and call it a day. 

-

(Also I stretched the prim up to my avis head even after the automatic reader told me what it was. I know how to measure properly I've been here since 07 and I know LL never fixes their issues with the avi height.

And Penny, I linked that minotaur and called your avi 'safe' because it has a human face, so people (not just rp sims) don't fear it as much. Most people don't bat an eye at animal additions as long as the face remains more or less human. They start to avoid you, however, once you lose the human facial features.)

 

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I do agree that its both ways but when my friend Jules (lastname withheld) opened her rp  last year and tired to have it set to Furs and Neko only  we had a few humans tp in and complain about how they didn't want to change into a furry or neko even though we had free avies out if they didn't want to spend any L. And they complained how unfair it was but eventfully Jules let Humans Rp there too and it was more fun and interesting. I think that these cyber/Fantasy Rp Sims  or even urban should allow furs or any kind of Humanoid  Av to RP  RP sim owners need to look at the ability of the person not judge on the AV itself but thats my Opinion

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KlistiesSeMio Ewinaga wrote:

TL;DR since I'm really tired of fighting when I didn't even mean for this to happen
thanks so much guys A+ you wore the part time fur down congrats I bet you're all proud.

---

I just wanted to know why people hated on furs in general, and in rp because I noticed this consistent banning.

I got my answer by all the convoluted and half hearted attempts at explanation.

I do
NOT WANT PREVIOUSLY EXISTING RP SIMS
to open up for furs because
THAT DOES NOT MAKE SENSE
. WHEN DID I SAY I WANTED THIS?

I was just wondering
WHY
.

You guys say I am hostile, well of course I'm hostile, you're backing me into a corner and claiming I am going to fly into a sim wearing a 8' tall bright pink husky avatar with glowing eyes and a cyberpunk outfit in an urban rp. Because of course that's what all the other furs do so I guess that means I am going to do much the same. Okay.

You claim all furs ignore the rules and want them bent to their whims and troll sims who don't do so, and I'm sure some do. But please, tell me when I said I came into a sim demanding they change for me? PLEASE. I'm VERY INTERESTED to find when I did this. Maybe I blacked out for a while a few years ago.

Please also tell me how I need to change and adapt to the sim, when I TOLD YOU ALL THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT I'VE BEEN DOING FOR YEARS. Please, keep telling me I need to conform to the sims rules and standards. Please. I don't think I've heard enough about what I've been doing already.

Basically, I was just expressing a wish to rp with my fur avis that I worked hard on to mod. I now see that will never happen. That's fine, I just wondered if there was any way that I could do this. I'll get over it. I'll be upset, but it's not the end of the world. I'll just wear those avis out shopping and when I'm chilling with friends.

I've never been kicked out an rp sim before and I don't plan to start now. I'll just stick with my pretty human avatars and call it a day. 

-

(Also I stretched the prim up to my avis head even after the automatic reader told me what it was. I know how to measure properly I've been here since 07 and I know LL never fixes their issues with the avi height.

And Penny, I linked that minotaur and called your avi 'safe' because it has a human face, so people (not just rp sims) don't fear it as much. Most people don't bat an eye at animal additions as long as the face remains more or less human. They start to avoid you, however, once you lose the human facial features.)

 

I don't think anyone is saying your avatars are like that. There are people who purposefully break the look and rules of a RP sim and then whine about it. Yes, a good chunk of them are furries. No, its not the majority but its still enough to make everyone else look bad. Just about any group has this problem.

The reasons given by Penny make sense. Running a roleplay sim isn't the best job in the world so if a moderator says you don't fit then maybe you just don't. I've seen a bright green cartoon husky wearing a suit try and work his way into a high fantasy roleplay. 

Yeah, it would be nice if people didn't just strike furries off right away. But, with the choice of avatars out there its very hard to make something work in a more realstic roleplay. 

I don't think its worth getting upset over.

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Don't be upset. Thats just how Penny always is. Let her believe she is a traditional minotaur and is the only one who can messure high and has so much knowledge about furry avatars..

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KlistiesSeMio Ewinaga wrote:

 

As for your replies: who in the world are you hanging out with?? Have you been to any of the big fashion and home design events lately? (famashed, colabor88, the arcade, etc) Where are you seeing these supposed 7-8' tall (human) avatars? Please point to them for me - I must be blind.

For kicks, I measured that little fur avi: Height detector 1.0.4 1: KlistiesSeMio Ewinaga is 1.501911 m (4 feet 11 inches) tall. (counting your shoes)

I asked a friend as well (removing name): --- Resident is 1.943714 m (6 feet 5 inches) tall. (counting your shoes)

Then my first fur, who is taller (more lanky): Height detector 1.0.4 1: KlistiesSeMio Ewinaga is 1.895966 m (6 feet 3 inches) tall. (counting your shoes)

And lastly, because I so happened to have that Big Mesh Tiger: Height detector 1.0.4 1: KlistiesSeMio Ewinaga is 2.450000 m (8 feet 0 inches) tall. (counting your shoes)

Your research is stunning on that one. A+

Put a prim up next to most people and yes, they are in the 7'-8' tall range.

Most height meters are off. Including that one. I recognize that chat spam - the meter you used, uses chat spam from an uncredited copy of mine that came out a few months after I made mine, but had its formula adjusted to come back with results that were shorter. (I do not know if they were in turn copied - just that that chat spam is my writing).

SInce the time I made mine and now I've learned more about -WHAT- is the extra portion between the 'agent height' that scrips can see, and the remaining height on the avatar. Its not static, it is every dial that can adjust anything above the eyeballs... and that's a couple of things, which people often tweak...

Only ways to measure height correctly are to stand next to a prim and see how tall that prim is (edit it), or wear a prim on 'Avatar Center' and put its bottom at ground after it is stretched to your height - then see how tall it is.

- You can make either method easier by putting a texture onto the prim set to repeat once every meter, or once every 0.1 meters... and then break out a calculator to find feet.

 

Average avatar height IS going down. It is too land impact expansive in a mesh era to have a giant avatar... BUT I'd still say over 50% of them are above 6'5", and about 1/3 over 7' tall.

Its less severe in furry places because adjusting your height can be difficult with furry props and many furries now have sensible heights - a builder will pick an average that most of their furries are set to, allowing them to go up or down for effect. DSD is usually shorter than KZK for example - but the DSD lion forms a tall exception (I have not tested the older DSD deer, but I suspect it is also taller).

 

That said:

Yes the furry bias is often over done. Many much more cartoonish avatars are accepted in places that will then bar furries. Its a bias, not rational. Attempts to justify it fall flat when one really looks at what places DO let in...

 

 

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I can only say for our location, we don't allow any non-human, non-period correct avatar to become a member and roleplay. We try to keep things as historically accurate as possible.

 

Are people too tall? Probably, a little, but that is just as much a matter of how things are perceived with camera view It looks as historically correct as possible (based on United States mid 1890's) and there were, to my knowledge, no anthropomorphic animals, vampires, werewolves, mummies, robots, or cell-shaded ponies walking about at the time.


At the risk of seeming antagonistic, I have never seen a community/subculture seemingly pop up into existence hell-bent on its own martyrdom as some in the furry groups seem to be. I would not go into an ancient Roman sim expecting to be accepted as a 17th century cavalier. It would not be so much a part of my identity that I could not try on a different costume to take on the role offered at the new venue. Why do some people have such a hard leap understanding that?

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I dont know if this sim has been mentioned, but The Isle of Amras allows Furries. it's medieval but is a bit different. people can come form the future or the past from different universes etc. I just put a post up to try and get more players there. Maybe you could give it a look with some friends?

http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Role-Play/Alternative-Medieval-Fantasy-roleplay/td-p/2173683

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Can you read? Then please do so.

At NO point of the whole discussion has anybody said that they want to roleplay as a furry in a historical roleplaysim. What in the world leads you to this? Nobody claimed that it is historically correct to be a furry in a 1890s sim, nobody claimed that there where antros at that time walking around. THATS NOT THE POINT.

Don't throw with stones when you sit in a house made of glas.

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I like how nobody bothers to read my posts.

I don't want existing rp sims to open to furs because that doesn't make sense.

I don't want sims where furs wouldn't fit into the world to be allowed because, again, that wouldn't make sense.

I'm not standing up on a box screeching about how it's not fair that furs aren't allowed into most rp sims - because AGAIN - half the time they would not fit.

I'm not asking anyone to change their rules to accommodate me.

I ALREADY CHANGE MYSELF TO ACCOMMODATE THE RULES.

Most of my avatars aren't even furs. MOST OF MY AVATARS ARE PERFECTLY NORMAL HUMANS. HU-MANS. NON ANIMALS.

And - gasp! - I RP WITH THESE AVATARS WOW

I treat my fur avis as characters, and all I said was it would be nice to rp them somewhere. THAT'S IT. jfc

 

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I want so see their faces, when you tell your "friends" about your discriminative tendencies and your opinion that, at the core, they are all dramaqueens. But hey, I'm glad I'll never RP with you and so should they be glad they don't have to.

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