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KlistiesSeMio Ewinaga

Curious question about furries in RP

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MuffinUnsane wrote:

I can understand perfecty why people wouldn't want furries in a rp enviroment. Often enough they're distracting and clash terribly with the setting. A bright colored husky demon? 

What bothers me is when I'm reading a sims 'guidelines' and they talk about how open they are to so many races and creatures! Yet, I ask about an anthro unicorn that fits the setting and I get 'tsked' and blown off. Then they let some 'gyp*y' sterotype run around. Its boggling for the most part.

I'm ended up giving up on most fantasy roleplays. Not because they don't accept furries, but only because they seem to accept cookie cutter races. 

Also lycans of course lol

gypsy stereotype?

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Drake1 Nightfire wrote:


MuffinUnsane wrote:

I can understand perfecty why people wouldn't want furries in a rp enviroment. Often enough they're distracting and clash terribly with the setting. A bright colored husky demon? 

What bothers me is when I'm reading a sims 'guidelines' and they talk about how open they are to so many races and creatures! Yet, I ask about an anthro unicorn that fits the setting and I get 'tsked' and blown off. Then they let some 'gyp*y' sterotype run around. Its boggling for the most part.

I'm ended up giving up on most fantasy roleplays. Not because they don't accept furries, but only because they seem to accept cookie cutter races. 

Also lycans of course lol

gypsy stereotype?

You know swindlers who are uneducated...thieves essentially. dress like this http://beautyandthebestoftherest.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/the-gypsy-traveler_gypsy.jpg

Of course gypsys have stereotypes. of course I don't RP so I'm only assume that this is what muffin is talking about.

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MuffinUnsane wrote:

What bothers me is when I'm reading a sims 'guidelines' and they talk about how open they are to so many races and creatures! Yet, I ask about an anthro unicorn that fits the setting and I get 'tsked' and blown off. Then they let some 'gyp*y' sterotype run around. Its boggling for the most part.

I guess I'm wondering why the word gypsy is asterisk'd out like it was some kind of pejorative term. Its just an ethnic group of caucasian people, no different than any other ethnicity of caucasian people.

I understand that some politicians in Italy have been trying to make all the gypsies wear some kind of visible marking, like say, a colored star I suppose, so that other folks can more easily harrass them and eventually round them up - but this is not a mark against Gypsy people, but against those politicians.

Hardly a word needing screening, anymore than say... 'Scottish' would need to be spelled Sc*ttish...

 

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KlistiesSeMio Ewinaga wrote:

If I'm not mistaken, I believe it's censored because it's considered a derogatory racist slang term. Much like the N word.

Not in my native language, American English. Its a word about as offensive as 'French'.

But it does look like online, I see an equal number of articles saying it is as I do saying it is not. Most of the 'it is offensive' articles seem to be English and not American, which is why this is news to me.

Now, if it -IS- an offensive term, then putting an '*' on it doesn't make that any better. And while it may not be in my culture, if the poster felt the need to put that '*' then it probably was in their culture... so they've got a lack of an excuse there...

 

 

 

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i am a furry. and always have been. i RARELY use any human/neko form. and if i do, its for ads, or particular shopping event sims to keep scripts down. im a gargoyle..i know not the most common. and thats ok. :) i gave up myself trying to find an rp sim who accepts me. even myth sims...and its usually because im purple, and have peircings. heh. but i find if im allowed to stay, the rules are i have to run around naked.... -___- because a true myth creature wouldnt be wearing clothes...but yet the fawns, and or demons get to wear clothes.

the sad part is, that their are discriminations, in no matter what avatar one uses in just about all rp sims furry,and non furry.. like, i cant even /look/ around gorean sims...and which is sad, because the makers usualy make such pretty forests. but a furry appears on the landing strip, and an officer is there saying if u dont leave in 15 seconds you will get banned. even, if im not interacting with the persons...just meerly /looking and and admiring/ the sim.

the problem with alot of people trying to pigeon hole many furries, and the fact that i think bothers them the most, is that its simply hard to place many furries in a single category. it would be impossible. some are part time fur, some are full time like me.some have entire stories, and years worth of storylines to back up their fursona, and some are furries because they simply like the avatar. and thats ok. some are flat out mean to furries, because of what we have on....but if you look at the people that are simply mean to a person for what they have on, chances are their not mean to just furries. their mean to everyone, or persons not like them. and yes, many furries act the same way.

no, media hasnt helped really at all either. most furries in the media get portrayed as this big disney animal costume-esque wearing weirdo, who spends all their time on the costume, or acting like the animal, or that furries are all gay perverts. its simply not true. we all dont do this. or some call it simply a "fetish". for some it is, but some, its not really fetish, but to what a person relates to. people who bash furries, normally bash other other types of things they dont like that are outside their normal bubble.

i cant tell you how many times ive been harrassed for beeing who i am in sl.most of the time, it little things. but then some can go as far to the point of where its actually hurtful. getting a death threat, because im a purple gargoyle...shouldnt even happen....or to anyone. no one  should be harrasing anyone. i think people sometimes in sl, forget that despite what a person looks like online, we are all still human on the other end. and descrimination hurts. no matter who you are. you just have to keep looking in sl to find the right rp sim that fits you. its hard sometimes, but they are out there.


 if you want to stay furry all the time, stay furry all the time. you shouldnt have to switch to human just to sim hop. i myself, refuse to change. if a person in sl cannot accept me, as i am, then i can move on.i shouldnt have to be a human,demon, lycan, vampire, or in somthing im not comfy being in just to be able to stay on a sim. and besides, why would you want to stay on a sim, where they only like you for what avatar you have on? be youself int he avatar you choose to be in. you will find it, or it will find you........and in closing...oh my i typed a book! xD if you read all this cheers to you! ^_^

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Pussycat Catnap wrote:


KlistiesSeMio Ewinaga wrote:

If I'm not mistaken, I believe it's censored because it's considered a derogatory racist slang term. Much like the N word.

Not in my native language, American English. Its a word about as offensive as 'French'.

But it does look like online, I see an equal number of articles saying it is as I do saying it is not. Most of the 'it is offensive' articles seem to be English and not American, which is why this is news to me.

Now, if it -IS- an offensive term, then putting an '*' on it doesn't make that any better. And while it may not be in my culture, if the poster felt the need to put that '*' then it probably was in their culture... so they've got a lack of an excuse there...

Gypsy is most definitely offensive.  Extremely offensive... in fact, disgustingly offensive and ridiculous.  Yes... definitely, extremely, disgustingly, ridiculously offensive.

...Dres

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Dresden Ceriano wrote:


Pussycat Catnap wrote:


KlistiesSeMio Ewinaga wrote:

If I'm not mistaken, I believe it's censored because it's considered a derogatory racist slang term. Much like the N word.

Not in my native language, American English. Its a word about as offensive as 'French'.

But it does look like online, I see an equal number of articles saying it is as I do saying it is not. Most of the 'it is offensive' articles seem to be English and not American, which is why this is news to me.

Now, if it -IS- an offensive term, then putting an '*' on it doesn't make that any better. And while it may not be in my culture, if the poster felt the need to put that '*' then it probably was in their culture... so they've got a lack of an excuse there...

Gypsy is most definitely offensive.  Extremely offensive... in fact, disgustingly offensive and ridiculous.  Yes... definitely, extremely, disgustingly, ridiculously offensive.

...Dres

When discussing the subject before, I was asked to please spell it that way. I guess the habit never changed. It is a slur and I apologize for bringing it up in a discussion that didn't need it. It was late and I'm not too quick at thinking around that time. : B

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Dresden Ceriano wrote:

Gypsy is most definitely offensive.  Extremely offensive... in fact, disgustingly offensive and ridiculous.  Yes... definitely, extremely, disgustingly, ridiculously offensive.

...Dres

news to me, and no doubt to all the Gypsies who proudly call themselves that... It's just as offensive as calling Poles Poles or Romanians Romanians.

 

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MuffinUnsane wrote:


Dresden Ceriano wrote:


Pussycat Catnap wrote:


KlistiesSeMio Ewinaga wrote:

If I'm not mistaken, I believe it's censored because it's considered a derogatory racist slang term. Much like the N word.

Not in my native language, American English. Its a word about as offensive as 'French'.

But it does look like online, I see an equal number of articles saying it is as I do saying it is not. Most of the 'it is offensive' articles seem to be English and not American, which is why this is news to me.

Now, if it -IS- an offensive term, then putting an '*' on it doesn't make that any better. And while it may not be in my culture, if the poster felt the need to put that '*' then it probably was in their culture... so they've got a lack of an excuse there...

Gypsy is most definitely offensive.  Extremely offensive... in fact, disgustingly offensive and ridiculous.  Yes... definitely, extremely, disgustingly, ridiculously offensive.

...Dres

When discussing the subject before, I was asked to please spell it that way. I guess the habit never changed. It is a slur and I apologize for bringing it up in a discussion that didn't need it. It was late and I'm not too quick at thinking around that time. : B

What nitwit told you that? One of my cousins married a Romani woman while he was stationed in Italy. Every so often they come visit us. She proudly calls herself a Gypsy and says that is a name some have adopted over the past 500 years. Yes, some Romani find the term derogatory. The likelihood that you were speaking to one.... slim. In this day and age if one is offended by something on the internet one should leave the internet.

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jwenting wrote:


Dresden Ceriano wrote:

Gypsy is most definitely offensive.  Extremely offensive... in fact, disgustingly offensive and ridiculous.  Yes... definitely, extremely, disgustingly, ridiculously offensive.

...Dres

news to me, and no doubt to all the Gypsies who proudly call themselves that... It's just as offensive as calling Poles Poles or Romanians Romanians.

 

I agree... I was being facetious.

...Dres

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Yeah I had to use google on that issue with the word Gypsy, and every article that claims its offensive seemed to end in .uk...

But if a people do not want to be called by a term, my rule is that is their right - so at least if I'm dealing with a UK Romani, I'll keep that in mind.

 

Anyway... About those furries.

 

I spend about half my time in SL as a furry, so I've seen this also. Mind you about half of all fantasy out there seems to have furries in it somewhere, and they're popping up in a lot of Sci Fi as well.


You won't win the argument with someone who is making a fantasy or sci fi build to their theme... but you might be able to make the argument if working with some people to plan out a new one. Many mythical creatures are furries in all but name. And in future-genres, they can be aliens (Star Trek has a Canon cat-furry race), or they can be the result of genetic engineering (Moreau Omnibus novels, or the Albedo comic for example).

BUT, many SL furries run arounf in glowing purple and green fur colors... and that can be a little 'off putting' to roleplay.

If you get a hold of the ear of a roleplay sim operator who is not outright dismissive, suggest the design of a race of animal-like humanoids, and with a rule of 'realistic fur patterns and non-cartoony avatars'.

- Set the rules right, and you might be able to convince someone to welcome them aboard.

 

Many furries ARE avid gamers and roleplayers, so roleplay sims who found a way to welcome them in would gain a very healthy boost of dedicated players.

 

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That what gets me they allow Lycans in some of the rp's i know of bu tnot regular  AV's like anthro wolf now i know of toxian city allows furries :D

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Well, the good (or bad) thing about rp sims is that they seem to come and go super quickly so there is always a chance you'll find one down the road. Or maybe even the owners would be open to suggestions? 

I remember being in a rather popular one that was open to creating new races, within reason, for people. 

I really hope you manage to find a few that suit you!

 

And if you see a furry-open 'regular-life' roleplay sim please shoot a pm my way!

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KlistiesSeMio Ewinaga wrote:

I was thinking about this today and I'm honestly very curious.

Why do almost all RP places ban furries?

I understand realistic urban/city life RP not allowing furries because that would be strange so I'm a-ok on that.

However! I've seen so many fantasy and sci-fi rp sims banning furries because they 'don't fit in / will be a distraction' or even without a given reason.

Why is this? You allow aliens to roam around but the second a sentient dog shows up it's all 'oh no you broke my concentration this is so unrealistic!'. ????

In fantasy we've got angels and werewolves and mermaids and people that are half goat but ooohhh no don't be a walking talking cat that's totally gonna break us from our world.

When did this banning happen and why has it persisted? What's the point to ban furs in a sim that allows other species and races? Shoot, even the elderscrolls games have two fur(scaley) species!

What's with the hate?

Furries fit into some settings, but not others. When people provide a role-playing environment, they are trying to construct an immersive theme and that means restricting participating players to elements that work within that theme.

For example, let's say you're doing a fantasy setting, traditional high fantasy with werewolves and mermaids with a "King Arthur" western fantasy aesthetic...that doesn't mean "anything goes".  A 6' tall, bipedal fox person who, aesthetically, looks as if they just walked out of a Star Fox game would fit into that setting about as well as someone with cel shaded anime avatar.

 Let's say you're playing Dead Space, or a videogame based off the Alien franchise, you're playing alone and everything is exactly how you'd expect in such a game, when suddenly a 7' tall, pink anthro cartoon rabbit appears and claims to be the ship's doctor? The world is already established as near future sci-fi with western aesthetics and human characters...this rabbit doctor is not only entirely out of theme for the world, but it certainly shatters the horror feel the game is trying to build up. The same goes for any movie, show, or SL RP setting.

 

 Of course, the flip side of that is there are worlds where such characters do make sense and are welcome with open arms. You could also have a sim which revolves around such characters, where gritty, western human characters would feel out of place.

 

 Now let's take a look at the Elder Scrolls example. Yes, there are animal like characters, but they fit the world. They're not cartoonish, they look like they belong alongside the humans, orcs, elves and other creatures of the Elder Scrolls world. Similar avatars do exist in SL and are more likely to be welcome in many RP sims that "ban furries". I can think of several offhand. Mystic Fantasies, for example, allows aesthetically fitting animal like characters but does not allow cartoonish furry avatars.

 

 It's basic storytelling, a story works if it remains self consistent. You need to set up rules and work within them or your audience/player's suspension of disbelief goes right down the drain. Roleplaying is all about storytelling.

 Now, why do so many sims expressly forbid furries? For the same reason there are fantasy sims that expressly forbid anime avatars, modern clothing, robots, and other elements that don't fit within the sim's theme. Sim owners have found that a lot of people lack common sense and unless you expressly forbid something, people will bumble on in and start unironically playing cartoon bunny rabbits in a gritty urban gang setting.

 That's not "hate". That's maintaining a theme and setting.

 In my personal experience, furries, more than any other group, tend to flood into sims that don't expressly forbid them. Sometimes they'll even flood into sims that do forbid them, but try to justify their characters through awful Mary Sue-esque explanations. "Oh, I look like a 6'5" green cartoon fox woman because I'm an alien princess. That totally fits into James Cameron's vision for Aliens!" Then cry they're being persecuted when told to get in theme or leave.

 I know plenty of furries who aren't like that, but there's a lot who are and they give the whole group a bad reputation.

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Thanks but I gave up for the time Being.. I just now hang with my friends at sandboxes are back at our hangout .. I know its been said a thousand times that the sim owner has the right to deny an avatar for any reason but look at the facts if they would just allow furs they would see a Increase in traffic.. Now some rp Sims I can see not allowing them but on Cyber rp or even Medieval or Fantasy come on now I see no harm.. A lot of furs are expert rp'ers  now I know of one RP sim that allows furs is SWRP (starwars Roleplay)  I rp'd as a fox, wolf, and rabbit :D

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Penny Patton wrote:

A 6' tall, bipedal fox person who, aesthetically, looks as if they just walked out of a Star Fox game

 when suddenly a 7' tall, pink anthro cartoon rabbit appears and claims to be the ship's doctor?

They're not cartoonish, they look like they belong alongside the humans, orcs, elves and other creatures of the Elder Scrolls world.

Similar avatars do exist in SL and are more likely to be welcome in many RP sims that "ban furries". I can think of several offhand. Mystic Fantasies, for example, allows aesthetically fitting animal like characters but does not allow cartoonish furry avatars.

 people will bumble on in and start unironically playing cartoon bunny rabbits in a gritty urban gang setting.

 "Oh, I look like a 6'5" green cartoon fox woman because I'm an alien princess. That totally fits into James Cameron's vision for Aliens!"

--

I wonder why you assume all furs are in brightly colored 'Bugs Bunny in drag' style avatars? Why are you also assuming everyone is still stuck in 'oh, gotta be an amazon!' phase? Have you even been around a large group of furs lately? Nearly all of the ones I know are in the new 'child avatar to hipster&fashion blog avatar' size range. The only large ones are those demigod mesh avis and those werewolves, but those are incredible looking and not at all cartoony.

These avatars here very much resemble what Skyrim gave us for the Khajiit. These raccoons are incedibly detailed and straight from the box come in natural tones. My current fur is a frankenstein mixture of about five stores and eight avis, but he isn't "7' tall, glowing, and neon pink". He's all in grey tones, 4'11", and wears clothes you can find in those popular mens fashion blogs because I am helpless at finding stores.

If I wanted to roleplay him at, say, a scifi sim that by some grace, allowed furs. Do you think for one second I would pop in wearing nothing but a thong and holding two glowsticks? NO. I would spend a good three hours on the marketplace looking for suitable scifi armor, maybe give him a false leg because war is harsh, whatever. I'd give him props that fit with the theme, outfit him in nice mesh clothing that fit in perfectly, maybe even change out some of his parts (ears too big? make them smaller so he can wear a helmet!), anything to make him fit in the world created. (he's the first one in this picture btw and he's wearing a -GASP- tshirt)

Even as a human, you can't expect to waltz onto a post-apocalyptic sim wearing your best dress and pumps and not get laughed at. You gotta take the time to match the character to the setting.

I'm sorry there are furs out there who are dumb butts and come in expecting people to bow before them and cater to their whim. That's BS.

You gotta make yourself fit in the rp, anyone who's rp seriously more than a week would know this and respect this. I was not asking all the sims to realize their error and allow furs. NO. Maybe they had a bad experience with a shark avi at some point and decided to lay off the furs forever – whatever it’s their effing sim.

But you also have the people showing up to rp sims in bling (STILL!) and sparkling all over the place in everyone’s eyes, or those in full goth attire in an urban rp sim (who dresses like this in the south in 95+ weather???) and yet somehow these people aren’t ‘pulling you from the fantasy’? Right.

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KlistiesSeMio Ewinaga wrote:

I wonder why you assume all furs are in brightly colored 'Bugs Bunny in drag' style avatars? 

 You're the only one making assumptions. I'm merely explaining why certain types of furry avatars aren't welcome in certain types of RP sims. Most RP sims that do not allow furries do so specifically to keep out avatars that do not fit the theme.


KlistiesSeMio Ewinaga wrote:

 Have you even been around a large group of furs lately? Nearly all of the ones I know are in the new 'child avatar to hipster&fashion blog avatar' size range. The only large ones are those
and those
, but those are incredible looking and not at all cartoony.

Yes and I'm very familiar with those examples. Fun fact, they are all in the 9' to 12' range. The hipster&fashion blog avatar crowd tend to be in the 7 to 8' range. Most avatars are larger than they realize.


KlistiesSeMio Ewinaga wrote:

very much resemble what Skyrim gave us for the Khajiit.


 The fur texture is more detailed than many furry avatars, but it's still decidedly more cartoonish than the Khajiit 

 

 


KlistiesSeMio Ewinaga wrote:

 
are incedibly detailed and straight from the box come in natural tones. 

Very detailed, maybe, but still very cartoonish. It would look far more at home in Starfox Adventures than Conan the Barbarian.

 

 


KlistiesSeMio Ewinaga wrote:

If I wanted to roleplay him at, say, a scifi sim that by some grace, allowed furs. Do you think for one second I would pop in wearing nothing but a thong and holding two glowsticks? NO. I would spend a good three hours on the marketplace looking for suitable scifi armor, maybe give him a false leg because war is harsh, whatever. I'd give him props that fit with the theme, outfit him in nice mesh clothing that fit in perfectly, maybe even change out some of his parts (ears too big? make them smaller so he can wear a helmet!), anything to make him fit in the world created. (he's the first one
and he's wearing a -GASP- tshirt)

 And even if you spent the time to get some sci-fi armour, if it's a sim where the theme features a realistic, western style aesthetic (like Alien, Star Trek, Star Wars) you'll still find yourself not welcome in a lot of RP sims because as well dressed as your avatar is, it's clearly more cartoonish in aesthetic.  That's something you have to take into consideration when looking for an RP sim to play in. 


KlistiesSeMio Ewinaga wrote:

But you also have the people showing up to rp sims in bling (STILL!) and sparkling all over the place in everyone’s eyes, or those in full goth attire in an urban rp sim (who dresses like this in the south in 95+ weather???) and yet somehow these people aren’t ‘pulling you from the fantasy’? Right.

 You'd be surprised. New Orleans is considered a goth hotspot. But beyond that, it really depends on the sim and its theme. Bling in an urban RP sim? Yeah, bling scripts are always gaudy but if poor fashion sense were enough to get you barred from a sim then all RP sims would be empty. However, I've seen plenty of fantasy and sci-fi sims which expressly disallow clubber clothes, bling, and other attire that doesn't fit the setting. 

 

 

 This isn't something specifically against furries, either. My own avatar is a minotaur warrior woman. Even if I change my clothes to sci-fi armour, an Aliens themed sim or a modern urban gang RP sim isn't going to be the place for a woman with hooved feet, cow horns and a tail. If I want to RP in such a sim I change my avatar to something more appropriate to that setting.

dread profile august 2013.jpg

 

 A lot of fantasy sims also have a list of approved races. A character like mine simply does not exist in the Hyborian setting of the Conan novels or anywhere in the Elder Scrolls lore (outside of fan made mods), so if I want to RP in a sim where a character like mine doesn't exist, I have to change or go elsewhere.

 I'm not going to be able to play a Klingon in an Aliens or Star Wars themed RP sim. It's an alien, sure, but it's not in theme with those settings. I'm not going to be able to play a vampire lord in a historical medieval RP sim, or a knight from Camelot in a Greek mythology themed sim. 

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I can understand your points, Penny. But I have so say that there is much more hate against furrys and Non-human avatars in all kind of sims than you might want to see.

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Syo Emerald wrote:

I can understand your points, Penny. But I have so say that there is much more hate against furrys and Non-human avatars in all kind of sims than you might want to see.

Not as much as against lisping kid avatars though.

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Syo Emerald wrote:

I can understand your points, Penny. But I have so say that there is much more hate against furrys and Non-human avatars in all kind of sims than you might want to see.

 I'm quite aware of how much hate there is, and there certainly is a substantial amount but, in the context of RP sims,much of it comes from that inability to discern what is and isn't theme appropriate, trying to talk their way around the rules, or outright defying the rules of the sim even if they know full well their avatar doesn't fit the theme and start shouting about persecution and their first amendment rights when they get kicked.

 Sim owners and RP communities have to deal with that kind of thing every single day and that leads to a lot of hostility.

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Penny Patton wrote:

Yes and I'm very familiar with those examples. Fun fact, they are all in the 9' to 12' range. The hipster&fashion blog avatar crowd tend to be in the 7 to 8' range. Most avatars are larger than they realize.

-

 The fur texture is more detailed than many furry avatars, but it's still decidedly more cartoonish than the Khajiit 

-

Very detailed, maybe, but still very cartoonish. It would look far more at home in Starfox Adventures than Conan the Barbarian.

-

 And even if you spent the time to get some sci-fi armour, if it's a sim where the theme features a realistic, western style aesthetic (like Alien, Star Trek, Star Wars) you'll still find yourself not welcome in a lot of RP sims because as well dressed as your avatar is, it's clearly more cartoonish in aesthetic.  That's something you have to take into consideration when looking for an RP sim to play in. 

-

 This isn't something specifically against furries, either. My own avatar is a minotaur warrior woman. Even if I change my clothes to sci-fi armour, an Aliens themed sim or a modern urban gang RP sim isn't going to be the place for a woman with hooved feet, cow horns and a tail. If I want to RP in such a sim I change my avatar to something more appropriate to that setting.

 A lot of fantasy sims also have a list of approved races. A character like mine simply does not exist in the Hyborian setting of the Conan novels or anywhere in the Elder Scrolls lore (outside of fan made mods), so if I want to RP in a sim where a character like mine doesn't exist, I have to change or go elsewhere.

 I'm not going to be able to play a Klingon in an Aliens or Star Wars themed RP sim. It's an alien, sure, but it's not in theme with those settings. I'm not going to be able to play a vampire lord in a historical medieval RP sim, or a knight from Camelot in a Greek mythology themed sim. 

------------------------

I think you might be missing my point here overall. I am not saying furries should be allowed on all setting in all rp sims. IF THEY DON'T FIT THE THEME, TOO BAD FOR FURS. I'm just saying there's sims that could realistically fit APPROVED races of furs into their original world building, and nothing bad would come of it. Boot the 8' tall neon bunnies, let well alone those who actually respected the rp.

 

As for your replies: who in the world are you hanging out with?? Have you been to any of the big fashion and home design events lately? (famashed, colabor88, the arcade, etc) Where are you seeing these supposed 7-8' tall (human) avatars? Please point to them for me - I must be blind.

For kicks, I measured that little fur avi: Height detector 1.0.4 1: KlistiesSeMio Ewinaga is 1.501911 m (4 feet 11 inches) tall. (counting your shoes)

I asked a friend as well (removing name): --- Resident is 1.943714 m (6 feet 5 inches) tall. (counting your shoes)

Then my first fur, who is taller (more lanky): Height detector 1.0.4 1: KlistiesSeMio Ewinaga is 1.895966 m (6 feet 3 inches) tall. (counting your shoes)

And lastly, because I so happened to have that Big Mesh Tiger: Height detector 1.0.4 1: KlistiesSeMio Ewinaga is 2.450000 m (8 feet 0 inches) tall. (counting your shoes)

Your research is stunning on that one. A+

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I think you're confused about what is considered 'toony' in the fur community. These avatars here are considered toony.

You also have to keep in mind, the Skyrim team had years, a professional team, and lots of funding to get the design spot on with the Khajiit and the Argonians. The teams that make the avatars, while incredibly talented no matter their style, are not working under the same circumstances AT ALL and holding them to that standard is both rude (in the 'you'll never be good enough for me' sense) and unrealistic. I'm not saying it's impossible, but it's also not likely.

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Why do you keep bringing up Starfox and comparing it against Conan? Like Conan was so realistic to begin with. (although Jason Momoa makes a much prettier Conan) You're compairing apples to oranges. Starfox was only ever a CARTOON. In that case, we should turn to the cartoon version of Conan for fairness. You okay there, Conan?

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And I wouldn't dare set foot in a 'western aesthetic' sim without first reading the approved races. If there's anything with a semblance of a beast race, I jump for joy and go off to find things that match it so I can fit in. I am willing to make a new character for the sake of the rp. But more often than not, I see a so called 'beast / alien race' and it's just humans with strange features.

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"This isn't something specifically against furries, either. My own avatar is a minotaur warrior woman."

That is not furry. That is a hybrid mixed with glorified kemonomimi. Popular hybrid species that are 'safe' because they exhibit a human face are: centaurs, fauns/satyrs, mermaids, harpies, medusas (or general snake bodies folk), and winged people (devils, angels, fairies, moth people whatever).

kemonomimi are where the nekos came about, for example. Human with animal ears & tail. Sometimes they also show personality traits of the animal in question.

If you wanted to be a 'traditional' minotaur, you could go with something like this, for example. But you went the safe route, which is by no means wrong, just...safe.

 

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