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BukTom Bloch

world literature (free)

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‪SL‬ ‪/ secondlife‬ / ‪literature‬ / ‪‎worldliterature‬ /‪ literaryevenings‬ / ‪‎project‬ ‪/ ‎Iwoleit‬

A new and VERY interesting idea and project of the famous freelance writer, translator and critic Michael K. Iwoleit.

The first session (deals with the Japanese writer Ryunosuke Akutagawa) is coming soon: Saturday, August 24th, 12:00 SLT / 21:00 CET.
The slurl:
http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Ekaterina/45/61/22

More sessions are planned and will follow.

Learn more in authors blog:
http://iwoleit.wordpress.com/2013/08/14/major-short-story-writers-a-series-of-literary-evenings-in-second-life/

Greets BukTom Bloch

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Presumably this invitation is for Japanese speakers only.

Because literature loses 90%+ of its meaning and relevance to another culture when translated.

Take the Bible, for example.

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Hello Pie Serendipity

I do not think so.
It is in english language.

And it is good for international understanding.

This is an important fact, I believe.

Greets

BukTom Bloch

 

 

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Pie Serendipity wrote:

Presumably this invitation is for Japanese speakers only.

Because literature loses 90%+ of its meaning and relevance to another culture when translated.

Take the Bible, for example.

I'm gonna disagree here. A good translator knows how to translate a book into a relatable and understandable translation. Often including anictodes to explain what it may have meant culturally where relevant. Also you're example of the bible is debatable at best considering which translation your talking about. But then you're obviousally trying to troll so I don't know why i'm feeding this.

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Madeline Blackbart wrote:


Pie Serendipity wrote:

Presumably this invitation is for Japanese speakers only.

Because literature loses 90%+ of its meaning and relevance to another culture when translated.

Take the Bible, for example.

I'm gonna disagree here. A
good translator
knows how to translate a book into a relatable and understandable translation. Often including
anictodes
to explain what it may have meant culturally where relevant. Also
you're
example of the bible is debatable at best considering which translation
your
talking about. But then you're
obviousally
trying to troll so I don't know why
i'm
feeding this.

I'm not trolling. I sincerely believe that reading a foreign language book in translation is like eating  toffee apple without taking the wrapper off, or having sex wearing a condom. You are going through the motions but enjoying a faint shadow of the pleasure of the real thing.

Given your own failings (as are partially highlighted here) I can not even be assured you have understood my original post, nor would you be able to appreciate this post; I presume you would not include yourself as a "good translator", although of course to know whether or not someone is a good translator would require that you were an even better translator yourself - which would render the need to read the work in translation redundant, since you would be able to read the original.

Remember, we are talking about literature here, not traffic signs, Mister Men books, or instructions on how to set up your wireless broadband router. If the subtleties are removed or replaced by a non-author, then the work is not the author's. If the author does the translation himself, then the work is still a different work from the original.

I am not talking from ignorance here. I speak and read French well enough to understand that Baudelaire's poetry is pathetically impotent in ALL the translations I have ever read.

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Some people have an intellectual horizon with a radius of zero which they rightfully call their point of view then. BukToms invitation was clearly aimed at everyone with a wider range ;-) Nobody is forced to attend and it is solely up to the attendants to feel satisfied by the presentation or not.

Given that a lot of non native speakers read and post on the forum I regard it as highly unfair to use typos as a reason to question the understanding of your posts. They are no subtle pieces of literature...


Regards and hugs to BukTom

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Luca Coeur wrote:

Great argument :-) Please remind me again, when were you nominated for a nobel prize for literature?

I wouldn't accept money from a fund instigated by the man who invented dynamite, and who attempted to assuage his conscience by offering prizes for humanity's better efforts.

I am in good company; Shakespeare has also never been nominated for The Nobel Prize In Literature, to give it its ESler-tinged official title, appropriately upper-cased, which you insultingly deny it.

 

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Pie Serendipity wrote:


Madeline Blackbart wrote:


Pie Serendipity wrote:

Presumably this invitation is for Japanese speakers only.

Because literature loses 90%+ of its meaning and relevance to another culture when translated.

Take the Bible, for example.

I'm gonna disagree here. A
good translator
knows how to translate a book into a relatable and understandable translation. Often including
anictodes
to explain what it may have meant culturally where relevant. Also
you're
example of the bible is debatable at best considering which translation
your
talking about. But then you're
obviousally
trying to troll so I don't know why
i'm
feeding this.

I'm not trolling. I sincerely believe that reading a foreign language book in translation is like eating  toffee apple without taking the wrapper off, or having sex wearing a condom. You are going through the motions but enjoying a faint shadow of the pleasure of the real thing.

Given your own failings (as are partially highlighted here) I can not even be assured you have understood my original post, nor would you be able to appreciate this post; I presume you would not include yourself as a "good translator", although of course to know whether or not someone is a good translator would require that you were an even better translator yourself - which would render the need to read the work in translation redundant, since you would be able to read the original.

Remember, we are talking about literature here, not traffic signs, Mister Men books, or instructions on how to set up your wireless broadband router. If the subtleties are removed or replaced by a non-author, then the work is not the author's. If the author does the translation himself, then the work is still a different work from the original.

I am not talking from ignorance here. I speak and read French well enough to understand that Baudelaire's poetry is pathetically impotent in ALL the translations I have ever read.

I am not a translator at all. I have just read transaltions that i felt were well done and helped me understand the culture said book was from. I have read excellant translations of le miserables which gave me a good idea of not only the culture at the time but went through the trouble of explaining it historically as well. In fact barnes and nobles translation of that book is supurb.

 

But I see we've gone to internet bullying though by implying yourself more intelligent then me based on spelling. Frankly that sort of behavior is pathetic at best. I assure you that you aren't more intelligent then I and that I am fairly intelligent. I however will not spend the time to imply I am better then you because it just looks pathetic and I don't tend to think myself suporior to others merely equals.  I love when people try to prove there better then my by spelling checking me on what amounts to a casual conversation. You must be a hoot at parties and I bet your friends LOVE that whent here talking to you. I believe we've had this arguement before though haven't we? In which in the end you only served to make your self look like a completly belligerant troll. I'm 90% sure that was you was it not? And no I'm not going to spell check this (what has become a) casual arguement in order to cater to your pathetic troll desires

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Pie Serendipity wrote:

Presumably this invitation is for Japanese speakers only.

Because literature loses 90%+ of its meaning and relevance to another culture when translated.

Take Freud, for example.

Two questions:

Wouldn't  the problem with cultural differences still exist even if the same language is spoken?

Would learning and then reading in the original language overcome this difficulty?

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Pie Serendipity wrote:


Madeline Blackbart wrote:

you aren't more intelligent then I


I love it when that happens.

Cool more trolling fun. I love how you spend your time putting others down. I've seen you do this on multiple occasions. This truelly implies that you don't feel very proud of yourself and need to make others feel bad in order to bolster your self esteem. Everyone can see it but i suppose you can't. It's kind of sad really.

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Perrie Juran wrote:

 

Pie Serendipity wrote:

Presumably this invitation is for Japanese speakers only.

Because literature loses 90%+ of its meaning and relevance to another culture when translated.

Take Freud, for example.

Two questions:

 

 

Wouldn't  the problem with cultural differences still exist even if the same language is spoken?

Would learning and then reading in the original language overcome this difficulty?

IMO probably not but you bring up some good counter arguments. However Expect to be spell checked and trolled as that's who your arguing with.

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Perrie Juran wrote:

 

Pie Serendipity wrote:

Presumably this invitation is for Japanese speakers only.

Because literature loses 90%+ of its meaning and relevance to another culture when translated.

Take Freud, for example.

Two questions:

 

 

Wouldn't  the problem with cultural differences still exist even if the same language is spoken?

Would learning and then reading in the original language overcome this difficulty?

I have two words for you.

Sapir Whorf.

It's not true.

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Madeline Blackbart wrote:


Pie Serendipity wrote:


Madeline Blackbart wrote:

you aren't more intelligent then I


I love it when that happens.

Cool more trolling fun. I love how you spend your time putting others down. I've seen you do this on multiple occasions. This
truelly
implies that you don't feel very proud of yourself and need to make others feel bad in order to bolster your self esteem. Everyone can see it but
i
suppose you can't. It's kind of sad really.

So you are as bad a psychologist as you are a translator then.

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Madeline Blackbart wrote:


Luca Coeur wrote:

I'd sooo love to see his spell checked versions of the dekalog - handed back for correction -
o.O

hahah me also. Just for the sheer hilariousness of it.

I don't use a spell-checker, ever; I don't need to, especially not to interpret non-existent instructions from an artificial construct of authority fabricated by a bunch of power hungry lying manipulators to keep the great unwashed in their place.

Personally, I observe the Eleventh Commandment.

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Pie Serendipity wrote:


Perrie Juran wrote:

 

Pie Serendipity wrote:

Presumably this invitation is for Japanese speakers only.

Because literature loses 90%+ of its meaning and relevance to another culture when translated.

Take Freud, for example.

Two questions:

 

 

Wouldn't  the problem with cultural differences still exist even if the same language is spoken?

Would learning and then reading in the original language overcome this difficulty?

I have two words for you.

Sapir Whorf.

It's not true.

What or which is not true?

Or does it all depend?

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As someone who can speak Japanese (I can not read or write ((only romaji, and no Japanese literature is published in romaji)) fairly well; who is fully immersed in Japanese culture; who has lived in Japan for several years; who is familiar with the work of Akutagawa, as well as *many* other Japanese novelists -- I can say, with a very comfortable level of certainty, that I get "lost in translation". This is especially true of the Japanese language. I have read the same novels (literature,) the same newspapers, the same anime as my 'native tongue Japanese' partner of 20+ years, and it seems she reads a very different story than what I do.

 

Another example: I have read four written translations of "The Illiad" (from the Greek) with each translation being very different. Pie is dead on in his assessment.

 

Madelaine, you seem not to be only a troll, but an ignorant human, as well. PS I spelled Madeline incorrectly for emphasis.

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Perrie Juran wrote:


Pie Serendipity wrote:


Perrie Juran wrote:

 

Pie Serendipity wrote:

Presumably this invitation is for Japanese speakers only.

Because literature loses 90%+ of its meaning and relevance to another culture when translated.

Take Freud, for example.

Two questions:

 

 

Wouldn't  the problem with cultural differences still exist even if the same language is spoken?

Would learning and then reading in the original language overcome this difficulty?

I have two words for you.

Sapir Whorf.

It's not true.

What or which is not true?

Or does it all depend?

Some of it.

And, yes.

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Pie Serendipity wrote:

I am in good company; Shakespeare has also never been nominated for The Nobel Prize
In
Literature, blah blah ....

I doubt it's 'good' company you're after in the first place,  but as an ESLer I'll be the first to admit you're both plagiarising unbearable boring racist frauds without the ability to come up with something original yourselves. :robotindifferent:

 

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Storm Clarence wrote:

 

Madelaine, you seem not to be only a troll, but an ignorant human, as well. PS I spelled Madeline incorrectly for emphasis.

Not in the least am I. I feel he is a troll and ignorant not for his disagreeing with the ability to translate things understandably but for his constant desire to put others down through spell checking them and then insuating that they are somehow of lesser intelligence. This habit in fact does imply both a human being who is not very confident in themselves but also a bully. having a diffrent opinion is fine as long as you can back it up which you did. But insulting someone over spelling and implying they're of lower intelligence then you is extremely ignorant and most definatly a form of trolling and bullying and so far that is allt hat pie has done if you had actually READ any of his comments. So I assure you I am not ignorant nor a troll for telling someone off for being a bully.

 

Also you may spell or misspell madeline however you want it does not make me ignorant nor does it prove your point that I am.

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Either we are reading two different forums or your translator is broken. I did NOT read Pie's first post as an attack or as a troll; nor did he call anyone names. It was YOU who came out swinging at him.

It is too bad that you seem to be in the habit of posting to the poster and NOT the post. To me, you trolled this tread; and your ignorance was manifest whilst doing so.

 

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