Official Merchant Badge Request

[HisaDrug]

(( Hopefully LL will read this post. ))

 

On Feb. this year, I purchased a full-perm bedroom set. It was a complete set of a honeymoon sweet, 300+ smoothe animations, all mesh, n it was only 500 L. I bought it after several days of contemplation of course. Too great to miss. After the week, I accidentally lost the item. I cleared my trash n realized I made a mistake.

I contacted the merchant. The profile said "IM caps often. NC please, or No complain to me," along with a beautiful high-quality picture of a couple kissing under a tree. The pick said his/her inworld store is temporary on hold.  I IM-ed him, no answer. Wrote a NC to him, no answer for days. I got tired of contacting him so I threw it in the towel. Forget it. 

And I ran into this inworld store, which displayed exactly the same item I lost. I checked the shop owner n the name looked exotic. I contacted the owner, answered me promptly, n she had no clue what I was talking about. It turned out her profile looked exactly the same as the fake merchant I bought my item from. Same profile picture, same notifications, same pick out of the other 8. I was shocked, so mad, n I explained what happened, we searched the fake merchant, n the person didnt exist. 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ok. That particular thief was bold enough to copy the real merchant's profile while he/she was on MP with the ripped-off items on 70% discount. It feels like they get smarter everyday n I'm pissed. I shoulda checked the rezz day n all that, but only in my hindsight. 

What if LL could provide the official merchants a badge that displays on the profile? Just like that virtual game called IMVU, that place has badges that are customized by merchants ONLY. What if LL could provide us such system to watermark our small business to public. At least theives couldnt get away at first glance. The incomes they made from MP should be investigated without the badge. I dont know it's just an idea but at least things would be more accurate with some kinda assurance.  

What do you merchants think about the idea? Is this too much to ask for?

 

 

[Freya Mokusei]

Same old idea that gets recycled every few months.

No, LL won't vet merchants. Please use Search to see previous attempts, but this is my personal summary:-

 

• SL is buyer beware.
• Too much hassle in something that they can hand-wave away.
• They have no reason to legitimise their service for cost and no-gain.
• Again, SL is buyer beware.
• It would be a fake guarantee, they don't know who's legitimate.
• Founding principle of SL is that anyone can create, anyone can sell, anyone can become a miiiiiiiillionaire.
• Please understand, SL is buyer beware.

The end.

[Pamela Galli]

500L for a detailed mesh bedroom with 300 animations and it never entered your mind there MIGHT be something fishy?

 

 

[HisaDrug]

Well first of all, I'm semi new generation in SL. I've only been around a year n some more. I can't get over the fact that LL is a great place to market but also a playground for excruciating fraud. Maybe somebody has to keep bringing stuff up every few months to make a point. Nothing is set. LL can change who knows?? They do change their TOS out of nowhere, why can't they hear us rant. I believe it's a very good idea whether it's a buyer aware or not. Things can change if they come up with a system. Just like they came up with DD. Anyone can create n sell, I get it. That's why I suggested the idea. LL could take fees for registering badges, etc.  

[HisaDrug]

That's why I searched the merchant inworld first before I made the purchase. I had to look at the product for several days. The profile spoke to me somehow. The picture was also ripped-off, the description was very well done. It even said Copyrighted. 5 people gave 5 stars. 

[Freya Mokusei]

Lack of insight into LL and its operating methodology is demonstrated. Again I suggest research, I am not inclined to rehash past precidents.

They change their ToS to suit themselves. It's not about collecting fees, such sinks are pocket change. Accepting liability for resident owned business is literally the last thing they ever want to do. Economics 101, this is how they make bank.

The only thing that will force LL's hand on this is the US government. Any regulation by those idiots would be far worse than any system LL could dream up. There is no other way the negatives will ever balance the positives of such a system. Personal opinion is that LL would shutter SL for good if it was forced to stand by creator integrity.

I don't know what it is about threads like this, LL has never acted as you appear to imagine it would.

[HisaDrug]

So basically what you're saying is the US government has to get involved for granting a SL merchant a watermark to indicate his business is official in sl virtual world so buyers can tell if he/she is not fraud? But ok, i'll search for the original thread. Thanks for the input though. 

[Freya Mokusei]

Negative. I said the only thing that would allow this change to pass successfully through the LL structure was recommendations or legislation made by the US government. Users cannot push for this change, and LL will never action it independently.

While we're reframing things into absurdity, what does 'official' mean in a virtual world? How many users operate legally-recognised companies or hold trademarks? How many meet minimum wage and how can LL verify? Is a Turkish passport as valid as an American one? How about Russian, Swedish, Thai? If you're using game tokens and not currency, what right do you have not to be defrauded? How are person A's arrangement of prims valid, and person B's arrangement invalid? How is Intellectual Property ownership determined on a first-come-first-served basis, and how are LL to be arbitrators without any control over the sales process?

See also: RiskAPI, regulation of virtual currencies, changes to tax codes, GOM and cross-state gambling in the United States of America, US Statutory Rights.

[Amethyst Jetaime]

If it sounds too good to be true price wise, it usually is.  You seriously think someone would sell 300 animations for L$0.06 each per animation when that number of full perm animations cost the builder  a tremendous amount of RL money, to say nothing of the hours of work involved in building the bed, making the textures etc.?  I am betting you settled on this bed mainly because the other ones you considered of the same quality cost significantly more.  That alone should have sent up tons of red flags.

LL will never take any responsibility for guaranteeing merchants integrity because their liability would be tremendous.  Any type of official merchant designation would also require merchants to give RL information, which most people in SL are adamantly opposed to.  Then LL would have to verify independently that the information given is valid because it would be too easy to give fake info and defeat the whole purpose of it.  The whole process plus the liability risk would cost them a lot which would more than likely be passed on to residents in the form of much higher fees.

Lastly, even if this had be a legitimate merchant, they are not responsible for replacing items you lose.  Some merchants will others won't.  There is no requirement to do so. 

[HisaDrug]

By official I meant by the verified information of a merchant n their business. Most of the merchants who are successfully carrying on their business in SL either pay for premium or by credit cards. LL can retrieve their information to verify legal issues they sure can.

That is why I mentioned that virgual game, IMVU. They ask merchants to pay VIP fees to keep their shops. They are very picky about distinguishing merchants from plain residents even if ppl complain about VIP fees. I think they are wise for doing that. They watch over the shop 24/7, if there's anything inappropriate they remove the items immediately, they allow merchants to create badges to hand out to customers, the list goes on. n most importantly, they do it legally. Whatever happens stays in their virtual world. You file a ticket for trouble, they take care of it in their office. They dont discourage ppl by the talk of the US government for suggesting new ideas to the game, they dont just allow anybody to create items unless they're paying for VIP n they take copybotted items down immediately. Of course I believe there are so much legal issues that they have to be aware of, but they're doing a good job keeping it virtual, meaning there is no such big deal as SL seems to make even just for a small suggestion. When I mention SL is a game, ppl say no it's not just a game. Then I say it's a business place, then ppl say no it's a game. Then I suggest something to stay in virtual, the US government has to get involved n the talk of wages. 

 

[HisaDrug]

---

Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

Lastly, even if this had be a legitimate merchant, they are not responsible for replacing items you lose.  Some merchants will others won't.  There is no requirement to do so. 

---

There is no requirement of course, but good merchants would do so. 

[Amethyst Jetaime]

SL is not a place for business or a game, although you can play games in SL and do business.  It is a virtual world, with all that entails while IMVU is more of a social media site with cartoon avatars.

You may be here for purely social reasons, and that is ok. It is your SL.  However a large part of the population is here not only for socializing but to express their creativity.  I have very few friends that don't at least dabble in creating things. 

Some  people that create things  make no profit at all, they do it simply because they enjoy it.  Some of them only sell a few items to make money to help pay their in world expenses.  Very few people in SL make enough money to even cash out their L's for RL money. 

If LL started to force everyone to be premium members or pay a merchant fee to create anything or to sell, half the population of SL if not more would probably leave.  Many of the merchants would also leave, leaving very little left in SL for anyone to buy compared to the variety available now.  Very few people could afford to give out things for free anymore or would do so very rarely.  Prices for items would have to go up considerably in many cases to cover those fees and landlords would raise their fees to , to cover the additional expense of doing business. 

A good part of the residents in SL now think everything should be free and another good part only want to pay rock bottom for anything they buy.  If prices went up considerably and freebies dried up, some of them would leave and the rest would buy very little,  The whole economy of SL is based in large part on content creation within the reach of most people and ability of people to earn some L's from their creations and in turn support other creators, entertainment venues and landowners .

SL is not IMVU.  The business model for SL is entirely different than IMVU.  SL attracts a different audience in many ways than IMVU does.  There are a few people that go both places, but most SL residents who have been to IMVU don't like it.  Comparing SL to IMVU is comparing apples to oranges.

 

[Freya Mokusei]

---

HisaDrug wrote:

That is why I mentioned that virgual game, IMVU. They ask merchants to pay VIP fees to keep their shops. They are very picky about distinguishing merchants from plain residents even if ppl complain about VIP fees. I think they are wise for doing that. They watch over the shop 24/7, if there's anything inappropriate they remove the items immediately, they allow merchants to create badges to hand out to customers, the list goes on. n most importantly, they do it legally.

---

I'm familiar with IMVU, I was a developer there when it launched to the public and had worked with the core development team during the early beta phase. I don't log in anymore there, but I still have a good collection of fictional money. Your odds of getting ripped off are not any lower there; the only difference is that the whole trade engine is centralised (a model that is in direct opposition to SL). VIP fees don't prevent scams (they buffer the service provider - not the users), and IMVU do no more checking of identity, trust and financial status than SL do - the only difference is the closed model.

Content is a whole other problem (one I realise you seem reluctant to address). No-one in SL really has power to say "You can't sell this" or worse, "You can't build this", IMVU is PG content only. You could argue that it has the laughable Access Pass, a device that ensures the platform will never have cultural relevance. The AP is mostly designed to make people pay (again) for no additional protections from the service provider and provide access to a carefully policed, ring-fenced and normalised set of 'adult content'. It is not a place that respects the intelligence of its users or their right to seek entertainment. The few adults there are stuck-pigs, bleeding money until the service provider chooses to ban them (a process that costs the user far more than a single badly-chosen purchase) for inappropriate content.

SL shouldn't become IMVU - there's a lot of good reasons why creating and selling here is different. It's unfortunate that some users don't appreciate how important this is, and what the 'other option' always entails.

[Ela Talaj]

There used to be Solutions Providers Directory, where LL would list "approved" creators engaged in professional services. To get in one had to submit a list of completed projects, have a good rating by clients, and pass an interview with a Linden. I was one of the last ones to get in because shortly thereafter the LL employee responsible for the directory maintenance went on maternity leave and no replacement was assigned. Then LL closed it down altogether even though the Directory still exists in the Wiki. However it was never intended for merchants but for professional services.

[Mitsuko Kytori]

Hello everybody,

 

I think there is a very solution, effectively Linden Lab can create a label of quality or a badge, why not, for active merchant with premium account and some check about products, by testing as other 3D merchant place make. After it is just a label to show on merchant profile, so potential customer can be ensure about availability, reliability.

I say this because despite that I can read on this topic, price can't ensure anything today. You can find mesh template, for example, in a big range price to 250 l$ to more 10,000 l$. It is a creator choice to find the right price between quantity vs exclusivity.

I bought animations in the past for more 20,000, but when I put some of them on a product, I never count the price of animations, for example. I just try to evaluate the right price for customer to stay attractive.

Okay, I know per advance it is a bad idea, but perhaps the best way is to close MP ^^  and re open in world shop '_'

 

Kinds Regards

Kytori san