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Medhue Simoni

LL should write all the code

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Freya Mokusei wrote:


Medhue Simoni wrote:

They don't have the time or money to invent in the development. And .... those systems will stay in their current form until some1 with the time and money does make something better. I won't hold my breathe.


Sorry to pinch a post to someone else, but this caught my eye (and I lack posting-time today, but I hope to continue monitoring this thread). It is the fundamental weakness of SL, always has been and always will be - you pay peanuts, you get monkeys. Significant large-scale development in SL is impossible because individual manhours stack poorly; a lone creator can spend six months on a single product, but there is no short-term reward for this.

I have however seen this happen in another market, not combat. OpenCollar, a BDSM toy, is an open source (and free) set of restraints and controls for enthusiasts of that particular activity. It is massively common, has large-ish scale professional-level development behind it, has support for plug-ins, edits, mods, third-party APIs, etc. The net result of its sale is that developers do not build collars anymore - there is no market for it when OpenCollar scoops up new users, and typical users rarely buy two competing sets of the same toy (it's common in fact, to not realise that better, more detailed restraint systems exist). I think it may be an educational case study for this system you are proposing.

 

 

 

Interesting case study, but I will point out that there is not much to a collar. What I mean is, it is all coding. Once you have the code, any1 can make a cylinder for a collar. So, I'm not sure it's a good comparison to a combat system, or avatar, which both have basically unlimited options. Yeah, the prices in the combat market would drop a little, cause there is no expense around the coding. The value centers more around esthetics rather than the coding. The end result tho, should be that more weapons are sold, as every1 can use those weapons everywhere.

Your point about large scale development being impossible is exactly why I'm proposing that LL do the heavy work. The only reason I was able to spend amost a year on our combat system is because of my main sales selling AOs. Not many other people have that kind of luxury. I guarantee you that if LL did do something like what I propose, they'd make a heck of alot more money off just the sale of more land in SL, than any amount they made off their other projects.


 

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Innula Zenovka wrote:


Medhue Simoni wrote:


The bigger point that I would make is, are any of those systems any good? Do any of them utilize SL to it's fullest? Is there farming? Can you kill an animal and eat it? Can you skin that animal and get clothing from it? Why not? I could go on and on about what is possible yet no1 is doing. The other question is why aren't they doing these things? To me, that is easy to answer. They don't have the time or money to invent in the development. And .... those systems will stay in their current form until some1 with the time and money does make something better. I won't hold my breathe.

 Doesn't the answer to "are any of those systems any good?" depend on what you want the system to do?   I mean, if I'm interested in WW1 arial dogfights between biplanes, or WW2 tank battles, I'm probably not too bothered about whether the combat system I'm using involves farming or hunting. 

Not really. If a system can't handle planes, tanks, farming, and hunting, it's not a complete system.

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Medhue Simoni wrote:


Innula Zenovka wrote:

 Doesn't the answer to "are any of those systems any good?" depend on what you want the system to do?   I mean, if I'm interested in WW1 arial dogfights between biplanes, or WW2 tank battles, I'm probably not too bothered about whether the combat system I'm using involves farming or hunting. 

Not really. If a system can't handle planes, tanks, farming, and hunting, it's not a complete system.

In your view.    An alternative view would be that, if all I'm interested in is naval sea battles, then the hunting and farming parts of the system are useless bloatware, just as if I'm interested in fighting in Gor, I'm going to be far more interested in how well the melee weapons work than in how aviation (tarns?) does.

 

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Medhue Simoni wrote:

Your point about large scale development being impossible is exactly why I'm proposing that LL do the heavy work. The only reason I was able to spend amost a year on our combat system is because of my main sales selling AOs. Not many other people have that kind of luxury. I guarantee you that if LL did do something like what I propose, they'd make a heck of alot more money off just the sale of more land in SL, than any amount they made off their other projects.

I don't think I can understand where you think these sales will come from. A combat-friendly userbase won't turn up overnight, a lot of the bread-and-butter users of SL are combat-resistant, and those who game on other platforms aren't going to seriously consider SL for a combat simulator, it won't ever compete with the likes of CoD, DotA, whatever other acronyms they have. The technology and capability isn't there, and that's kind of my point.

You might also be missing some of the complexity required in collars. I won't go into detail - it's an aside - but there have been many users who've tried to come up with as complete of a system as OC. However there have been no original attempts since OC 'made it big'.

LL developing LSL on top of their already fairly out-of-date codebase, with a disinterested management and no obvious commercial appeal (and most importantly, no ability to grab headlines in tech news) is not something that will benefit SL to any extent. Linden's do not understand the SL userbase, they don't know our requirements or expectations. They also don't know how to encourage new users to stay, and they can't grow one where other services are already heavily entrenched. At best, it would create a weak and flimsy crutch that new users would try to use, and fail at when they try to take it seriously or invest time in it (see also: Linden Realms. Bloodlines), create expectations that can't be met because of SL's obvious and crippling limitations when it comes to game experiences, all to destabilise the established but niche market for SL combat.

I really don't see the reward.


Medhue Simoni wrote:

Not really. If a system can't handle planes, tanks, farming, and hunting, it's not a complete system.


:/ I've never played a game with all of this in it. I don't think LL should spend their time chasing imaginary money on a premise as flimsy as 'But we don't have a system for everything yet!' - there's no way that ONE implementation of a specific system is going to have everything (OC, my example, doesn't by far) and no way that LL will be able to create one that does.

 

 

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Innula Zenovka wrote:


Medhue Simoni wrote:


Innula Zenovka wrote:

 Doesn't the answer to "are any of those systems any good?" depend on what you want the system to do?   I mean, if I'm interested in WW1 arial dogfights between biplanes, or WW2 tank battles, I'm probably not too bothered about whether the combat system I'm using involves farming or hunting. 

Not really. If a system can't handle planes, tanks, farming, and hunting, it's not a complete system.

In your view.    An alternative view would be that, if all I'm interested in is naval sea battles, then the hunting and farming parts of the system are useless bloatware, just as if I'm interested in fighting in Gor, I'm going to be far more interested in how well the melee weapons work than in how aviation (tarns?) does.

 

The point is to make 1 system that every1 uses. This works out best for all parties involved. When you buy a gun, it works everywhere. If you mine salt peter you get gunpowder for all weapons. If you also get a bi-plane, it can be shot down by the gun. If you get a naval ship, it can be attacked by the bi-plane. The most common thing any weapons merchant will hear is, "Is this compatible". The customer is always fearful of wasting their money on things that aren't compatible, hence why no1 wants to give a new system a shot.

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Medhue Simoni wrote:

Not really. If a system can't handle planes, tanks, farming, and hunting, it's not a complete system.


:/

I've never played a game with all of this in it. I don't think LL should spend their time chasing imaginary money on a premise as flimsy as 'But we don't have a system for everything yet!' - there's no way that ONE implementation of a specific system is going to have everything (OC, my example, doesn't by far) and no way that LL will be able to create one that does.

 

 

First, I'll agree that there is no game that does everything. That said, there is no reason it can't be done. It's really not that complicated. Give me a decent coder and another year of work on my own system and it will easily do everything I've talked about here. Heck, adding a farming system to my system is literally a few lines of code in the plant. A mixing system to make food would take a bit more time. Once the core of the system is done with all the plugins, the actual side systems, like a farming system or mining or animal skinning or whatever, are pretty dang simple. The code for each of those could be written in an afternoon. Having a vehicle take damage is not more than 20 lines of code. Heck, you could even make it explode, kill the drive, and rez a different model of the vehicle all blown up. The complicated part is the core of the system. Most of the side systems are as easy as pie to do, but you have to have a core system that can handle them.

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Medhue Simoni wrote:


Czari Zenovka wrote:

With SL writing all the code, this seems to me to be one step closer to turning SL into a glorified MMO....

....which is probably what Rod wants.

I'd be totally against it.

I know lots of people talk about this, "Rod is going to turn SL into a game", but I just don't understand what all the hysteria is. People act as if better games in SL some how takes away from the SL we all know and love. I don't see how it does. It's still SL but with better games. Who wouldn't want that? Obviously some don't, but I have yet to hear an actually reason that isn't based on nostalgia.

I am basing my opinion neither on hysteria nor nostalgia, but on Rod's own words when interviewed.  He stated he had planned to start a company to create things "HE" wanted, ie. games based on "creative spaces" and since becoming LL's CEO has proceeded to do just that - spend LL time and resources in apps that, as has been stated in another thread currently running, are more transient and games like "Patterns."  We wonder why issues that have been plaguing us as merchants using the MP are left hanging for months/years or given partial "fixes" and declaring the issue "completed" (ie. some of us STILL having mixed listings in our MP stores, although we have been told the issue was "solved"), etc.

Once LL starts addressing current issues, I would be more open to new headaches features.

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Medhue Simoni wrote:

The bigger point that I would make is, are any of those systems any good? Do any of them utilize SL to it's fullest? Is there farming? Can you kill an animal and eat it? Can you skin that animal and get clothing from it? Why not? I could go on and on about what is possible yet no1 is doing. The other question is why aren't they doing these things?


Because many/most of the people that WANT to do those things are playing games with that as part of the game dynamics.

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Freya Mokusei wrote:

Medhue Simoni wrote:

Not really. If a system can't handle planes, tanks, farming, and hunting, it's not a complete system.


:/

I've never played a game with all of this in it. I don't think LL should spend their time chasing imaginary money on a premise as flimsy as 'But we don't have a system for everything yet!' - there's no way that ONE implementation of a specific system is going to have everything (OC, my example, doesn't by far) and no way that LL will be able to create one that does.

 

 

(Sorry for all the totem posts...I respond as I read through a thread...anyway...)

Exactly so, Freya.  I've only played EQ, EQII, Star Wars Galaxies, and WoW, but they (and more recent games) have the same basic dynamics; the setting is generally what differs.  Even within games that "have everything," the majority of players with whom I have come in contact over a 15-year stretch (probably 100's including various guilds & personal friends) very, very, VERY few people want to "do everything."  There are huge amounts of people who join "elite guilds" to do basically nothing but largescale raids; some people want to level up as quickly as possible then start a new avatar or go to a different game; some enjoy tradeskills (creating the food, potions, clothing, etc. that enhance an avatar's stats); some enjoy questing and only engage in fighting/battle/killing something if it furthers the quest.

One of the reasons I have remained in EQ for so long is that I wanted to make my avatar "well-rounded" - my play style in MMORPGs is a combination of leveling, learning tradeskills, and questing - all intertwined.  I'm sure there are others who play in similar fashion, but it is more rare than the "Level as quickly as possible, get the most uber gear possible, and join the "best" guild" approach.

 

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LL should create all the animations too. Oh wait, I guess then that would put you out of business, huh? Also I see in your post you talk about combat systems but not everyone comes to SL for combat roleplay, in fact I'm willing to believe that combat roleplay makes up less then 10% of the SL population. If I want combat roleplay then I go do it on WoW or CoD or any other game. SL is a virtual world, it's not a game nor was it ever intended to be a game.

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Maximillon Lefavre wrote:

LL should create all the animations too. Oh wait, I guess then that would put you out of business, huh?

 

Ummm, no. That's pretty laughable actually. The animation market is nothing like the coding market in SL. LL couldn't find enough animators to put any of us, that live off our profits in SL, out of business. I sell animations across 7 platforms, and 4 of them have nothing to do with LL's source code. What I do in SL, I can do on almost any platform. I also have to beat clients away to work on my own projects. Like I said, your statement is laughable.

That all said, I'd have no problem at all with LL hiring animators. I'm really not afraid to compete directly. You shouldn't either. There are many competent animators already in SL that I have to compete with. If I didn't have to compete, I definitely won't be as good as I am.

My point is not about competition tho. It's not even about combat systems. It's about coming to a conclusion that it is not feasible for independent developers to create complex systems. Yes, we see them in a few areas that are highly profitable, as in breedables. The profitability brings the innovation. A combat system, like I described, is many times more complicated than some breedable, and the profitability is not as obvious. Every1 would benefit from a large project like this though, even the coders. LL would just be doing the heavy lifting.

The last point I want to make directly addresses your comment about combat in SL. LL needs new markets. The fact that the combat market is, as you say, 10% means that is a good market to go after. You seem to think that SL combat can not be as good as WOW, and I call total and complete BS. It's quite sad that you think so. SL has all the core parts it needs to create a combat system that could not only compete with the likes of WOW, but far surpass it because SL has functions that WOW will never, ever have, and a broader audience. We also have the creators to quickly fill any RPG with content, as long as the profitability is there. With LL writing the core of the code, it takes a huge burden off any1 wanting to create and engaging combat experience in the world of their choosing.

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Oh, and before some1 comes back with another LAG comment, I'll address that now. Lag is a product of bad allocation of resources from the sim owners and users, and slow internet connections. I rarely defend LL, but I certainly will in the case of LAG. There is no other issue that LL has worked on more, and they really have eliminated most of the LAG associated with the platform. Now, it's up to the creators and users to make good decisions about how they use the resources. I'm actually quite amazed at how far you can push it.

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SL as a virtual world is what you and other residents make of it. Thus, if you want it to be like WoW then go ahead and attempt to make an SL combat system and roleplay area to be like WoW. I'm sure you'd make a killing in profits off of it.

Furthermore, you suggest that LL should write all the code but that's pointless unless they wish to attempt to turn this into a game like WoW which would then be pointless for you to create animations for SL any longer because they wouldn't need you for that. You suggest that you welcome the competition but you don't get it, they wouldn't allow you to compete with them if they were to create all the animations as they would stop allowing animations to be uploaded and sold in-world. I get why you're posting this because you lack the ability to create SL scripts from scratch because you're not a programmer/coder. So I ask why should LL put the programmers/coders out of business and allow the animators continue to do business in SL? That was the point of my original post which obviously was lost upon you.

SL was free the last time I checked. For LL to create all of the scripts necessary to meet the needs of all residents wants and desires would require extensive man power and coding hours. This would force them to no longer offer you and all the other residents access to SL for free. WoW isn't free and there's a reason why. I don't suppose you just give away your animations for free either so why should LL write all the code for every script needed and wanted by all residents and just give it away for free.

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LL can't even code these forums right to disallow all these escort spam posts and you expect them to code something as complex as a combat system accurately. Seriously dude that's really laughable.

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Maximillon Lefavre wrote:

SL as a virtual world is what you and other residents make of it. Thus, if you want it to be like WoW then go ahead and attempt to make an SL combat system and roleplay area to be like WoW. I'm sure you'd make a killing in profits off of it.

Furthermore, you suggest that LL should write all the code but that's pointless unless they wish to attempt to turn this into a game like WoW which would then be pointless for you to create animations for SL any longer because they wouldn't need you for that. You suggest that you welcome the competition but you don't get it, they wouldn't allow you to compete with them if they were to create all the animations as they would stop allowing animations to be uploaded and sold in-world. I get why you're posting this because you lack the ability to create SL scripts from scratch because you're not a programmer/coder. So I ask why should LL put the programmers/coders out of business and allow the animators continue to do business in SL? That was the point of my original post which obviously was lost upon you.

SL was free the last time I checked. For LL to create all of the scripts necessary to meet the needs of all residents wants and desires would require extensive man power and coding hours. This would force them to no longer offer you and all the other residents access to SL for free. WoW isn't free and there's a reason why. I don't suppose you just give away your animations for free either so why should LL write all the code for every script needed and wanted by all residents and just give it away for free.

The name of this thread is just a headline to draw readers in. In no way am I saying LL should write all the code. This is quite obvious in my opening statements. My idea is to persuade LL to write the complex code that is not normally viable for independent developers to create. An intricate combat system fits that bill, which is why I'm using it as an example. It's the same concept as every1 using the SL avatar to create for. With every1 focusing on 1 system, the customers would have something that works with everything else. For the developers, they will make more money because everything is compatible. I seriously doubt any coder would be put out of business. On the contrary, I could see those coders be thankful that LL did all the head banging stuff, and they can focus on the fun stuff. It's Highly unlikely that any developer in SL is going to have the time to develope any good combat system. I'm not trying to knock the systems that are out there, just being honest so that we can make a better experience for the users.

Look at any platform which allows the community to mod things. I came from the original CryEngine editor directly into SL. So, I was used to the format of premade scripts and systems. Look at Unity, there are now hundreds of premade systems that developers can buy. Because of this, Unity is getting more and more popular. This was not the case when it was first released. Why? Cause you needed to be a hardcore coder to create in it, or at least have a good coder as a partner. We have that same issue in SL. When I came in, I was astounded that we kind of had to write our own code. I figured tho, that the market would work this out and coders would release packages and write custom code, which they did. Writing head banging code like combat systems is a whole other animal tho.

As for your example of animations again, I don't think you understand. It's a bad example. No person in their right mind would stop allowing animation uploads. I have easily made more animation for SL, all by myself, than WOW has in their whole game. My animation library is somewhere near 15k animations. Probably more. No company could ever pay the animators in SL enough to do what we have all done on our own. If LL insanely thought they could replace what we have done, like you, they don't understand the scope of the issue.

 My point is not to put any1 out of business, but at the same time have LL add value to their platform.  The add ons to something like a combat system would be more than enough work for SL coders. That is why I'm arguing for LL to do this. It adds value to their platform. This is something that could actually bring more people in. I have yet to see any tech platform make money without the users finding a way to make money also. This is why SL got popular. It was sustainable. Since it's initial popularity, very little has been added where user can directly profit off something LL did. We got the SL avatar. Now we have mesh, which is a big deal. Pathfinding is an important feature also. What I'm talking about, I think, could be bigger than mesh and pathfinding, and probably bigger that the SL avatar.

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Maximillon Lefavre wrote:

LL can't even code these forums right to disallow all these escort spam posts and you expect them to code something as complex as a combat system accurately. Seriously dude that's really laughable.

You could have a good point, but considering that quite a few Lindens came from game companies, I would expect them to have more experience that most. As I said early, I spent almost a year making a combat system. No, I did not code it, but helped with some coding, and I lead the developement. In many ways, I think we were trying to recreate the wheel, but I think I got some good insight into how it can all work in SL. Personally, I love the system we made, and wish I could find a competent coder to take over. I don't see that happening, and I'm not sure how profitable the end result will be. Yeah, it would be cool tho. If 2 non gamers, with only 1 being a competent coder, can figure out a combat system that does things that no other system does in SL, I would hope LL could put together a small team of competent guys that should be able to blow us away. The end result being an opensource system that every1 can use. Within a year, just about anything any1 bought in SL would be a dynamic object in a game. You can shoot it, throw it, break it,or whatever, with any gun, bat, shoe, or whatever. Every campfire could burn you. Any animal could attack you. I could go on and on.

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As i stated once before.. There already is a coplex combat system that covers al of the things you want LL to make.. It's called Spellfire 3. Should LL offer a masive sum of money to Aaron Cerveau for his system? Or should they just promote the hell out of it for him? There is a reason there are many combat systems. They do different things and they all have different animations.

The main reason why LL will never do this is, it would put a lot of people out of business. And they don't want that, they like getting money. Put those other creators out of business and you loose their sim earnings and the cuts of MP sales.

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Sorry, I don't see any1 having to go out of business. Spellfire may have some of the features I've talked about but it certainly doesn't have all of them. Some of the parts only LL can make good, as they are the only 1's allowed to alter the server code and the viewer code. Right now, as far as I know, there is no good way to make a sniper rifle. The zoom is primitive at best. With LL working on the system, they have a vested interest in polishing things like this up.

Don't get me wrong here. Again, I'm not trying to put down the different combat systems out there. In my opinion, if you've spent the time and created a system using only LSL coding that people are actually using, you've done something exceptional. That said, the reason so many think SL combat can't be good, is because of what they have seen so far. With LL working on it, there would be meetings were we'd all talk about how we'd like the system to work. We'd all add in your own experiences and the feedback we've gotten from customers. The whole point is to get the SL community to create for 1 core system. This is better for both the customers, and the developers.

Well of course it will cause some upevil in the combat markets. No1 will be forced to go out of business tho. Each of the current systems have a following. That's what keeps them alive. All the meetings would be public, so we'd all know what is going on with the system and when it would be released. The owners of the different systems in SL would then have to make a decision to fully implement the new system, or not. Not implementing it would not be the death of their system, unless the LL system was vastly superior. If LL's was vastly superior, then the owner of the other system would have been naive to not implement it. Plus, the core of the system is just that, the core. If you look at every system made in SL, their core system would be crazy similar, and there is a dang good reason why. There just aren't that many good ways to do it. A owner of a system like spellfire could easily and pretty quickly mod LL's core system to work amazingly similar to their own system. They would still have their identity with this new system, and keep their core users. If the LL system was even remotely a success, every system would see a good increase in customers. Again, I don't see where any1 needs to go out of business. Of course, they can make decisions that harm their own business. LL's would simply just be another system, but completely opensource for any1 and every1 to use.

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Yeah, but there's not many scripting Lindens to start with, and I can think of far better ways for Kelly and his colleagues to spend their time than on writing things for specific RP communities.

I'm not interested in sniper rifles, particuarly, and neither are the vast majority of people in SL.   What I am interested in, and what will affect way more people than combat systems, is getting stuff like the experience permissions project to work properly, or making lighting and materials properly scriptable.  

That's what only LL can do, and what they should be concentrating on.

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Czari Zenovka wrote:


Freya Mokusei wrote:

Medhue Simoni wrote:

Not really. If a system can't handle planes, tanks, farming, and hunting, it's not a complete system.


:/

I've never played a game with all of this in it. I don't think LL should spend their time chasing imaginary money on a premise as flimsy as 'But we don't have a system for everything yet!' - there's no way that ONE implementation of a specific system is going to have everything (OC, my example, doesn't by far) and no way that LL will be able to create one that does.

 

 

(Sorry for all the totem posts...I respond as I read through a thread...anyway...)

Exactly so, Freya.  I've only played EQ, EQII, Star Wars Galaxies, and WoW, but they (and more recent games) have the same basic dynamics; the setting is generally what differs.  Even within games that "have everything," the majority of players with whom I have come in contact over a 15-year stretch (probably 100's including various guilds & personal friends) very, very, VERY few people want to "do everything."  There are huge amounts of people who join "elite guilds" to do basically nothing but largescale raids; some people want to level up as quickly as possible then start a new avatar or go to a different game; some enjoy tradeskills (creating the food, potions, clothing, etc. that enhance an avatar's stats); some enjoy questing and only engage in fighting/battle/killing something if it furthers the quest.

One of the reasons I have remained in EQ for so long is that I wanted to make my avatar "well-rounded" - my play style in MMORPGs is a combination of leveling, learning tradeskills, and questing - all intertwined.  I'm sure there are others who play in similar fashion, but it is more rare than the "Level as quickly as possible, get the most uber gear possible, and join the "best" guild" approach.

 

I think you are making my point for me. The reason you want "everything" in a game is that there is something for every1. SL is more perfectly suited to this than any other world. It is because of the vast number of creators in SL that something like this is extremely viable. At least IMHO.

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Czari Zenovka wrote:


Medhue Simoni wrote:


Czari Zenovka wrote:

With SL writing all the code, this seems to me to be one step closer to turning SL into a glorified MMO....

....which is probably what Rod wants.

I'd be totally against it.

I know lots of people talk about this, "Rod is going to turn SL into a game", but I just don't understand what all the hysteria is. People act as if better games in SL some how takes away from the SL we all know and love. I don't see how it does. It's still SL but with better games. Who wouldn't want that? Obviously some don't, but I have yet to hear an actually reason that isn't based on nostalgia.

I am basing my opinion neither on hysteria nor nostalgia, but on Rod's own words when interviewed.  He stated he had planned to start a company to create things "HE" wanted, ie. games based on "creative spaces" and since becoming LL's CEO has proceeded to do just that - spend LL time and resources in apps that, as has been stated in another thread currently running, are more transient and games like "Patterns."  We wonder why issues that have been plaguing us as merchants using the MP are left hanging for months/years or given partial "fixes" and declaring the issue "completed" (ie. some of us STILL having mixed listings in our MP stores, although we have been told the issue was "solved"), etc.

Once LL starts addressing current issues, I would be more open to new
headaches
features.

Sorry, I didn't mean to lump you in with every1 with similar conclusions. I agree that it is somewhat heartbreaking to watch LL work on these other things instead of SL. They have been investing time and resources here tho. The Shining project, or whatever it is called, is a needed project. Materials is a vast improvement. Of course, mesh is major. Maybe these aren't what some would prefer LL work on, myself included, but it would be unfair to say LL isn't doing anything in SL.

Totally with you on the MP crazyness. It's definitely not an area where LL is impressing any1 involved.

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Medhue Simoni wrote:


Pussycat Catnap wrote:

Well...

 

LLs has developed one combat system for us all to use. Turn safe off in your land parcel and you will have it.

The reason SL has so many different systems is because no one liked the one LLs made...

- Sort of.

Because many of the combat weapons in SL use the LLs system. Further, some of the various systems use also work by extending out the base system.

 

The old combat meter in the viewer is a POS. It's limited. It's amost laughably limited. I'm talking about something much more advanced.

If people want something different then they always have the option of funding that venture and writing the code themselves. Good luck with that. Or, they can mod LL's code. I'd pick the latter.

So LL should write all the code because LLs writes better more supported code, except that the code LLs has written sucks and is supported by no one?

Hmmm...

 

My problem here is...

What makes us think that if LLs scrapped the code they put there for all of us to use, and did it over again, that they would do it any better or different?

 

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Maximillon Lefavre wrote:

LL should create all the animations too. Oh wait, I guess then that would put you out of business, huh? Also I see in your post you talk about combat systems but not everyone comes to SL for combat roleplay, in fact I'm willing to believe that combat roleplay makes up less then 10% of the SL population. If I want combat roleplay then I go do it on WoW or CoD or any other game. SL is a virtual world, it's not a game nor was it ever intended to be a game.

I like you. :)

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Medhue, you and I both know the issues in the MP (as one example of unfinished LL business that directly affects people making money in SL); I still have mixed images in my MP store despite an announcement declaring the entire issue "fixed."  I dutifully created a non-public jira, per instructions from LL/CTL to report that my mixed images still exist.  There it has languished, unassigned, since mid-May.

You also know that we're just preaching to each other here in the forums; someone from LL rarely reads and/or contriubtes, in fact, as I believe someone else noted in a prior post, you might have better success getting LL notice from SLU as Rod has been known to post there.

My point is that you asked for people's opinions on an idea you have and you have received responses.  My suggestion at this point would be to take the route that Toysoldier did with the idea for landmarks that moved with an avatar, thus not having to send out new lm's each time one's business moved to a new location.  He first asked for opinions in the Merchant Forums (which you have done here with your idea), then contacted someone in LL who heads up the particular division - in that case I think it was the Viewer group.  He then went to a public "office hours" and presented his idea.  From the transcripts I read, several Linden employees thought it was viable.  In the meantime, Darrius developed just such a system that he currently sells.  Whether LL will one day decide to implement the idea within their viewer (which was the original proposal) remains to be seen. 

I disagree with the idea for the reasons I have noted with no personal grudge against you; quite the opposite, but I am just another voice in the breeze until someone at LL takes note.

ETA: Just realized I had mentioned the mixed listing debacle in my prior post.  :matte-motes-bashful-cute:

Edit: Typo

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If LL wrote all the code it would be great because right now as it stands there really are not any highly good scripted RPG based Combat Systems in Second Life, things that could make a simulator feel like World OF Warcraft, or a system that detects where an avatar is hit by a bullet/arrow type of thing.

Every system that I have found has been cheated/exploited 3 years ago I remember the Exploit where various meters had their source codes stolen along with GM,DCS, and other companies products in SL which I will not discuss here a few people have their hands on every exploit avalable in some systems in Second Life. 

Now that the bug was patched years ago to my knowledge it would be really hard to every do this again, but the fact still remains open that RP systems created by players themselves can be exploited, cheated like using a combat channel to heal, or damage another player. 

I know some meters in SL which are only used in one Community have illegal chat loggers in them and basically they do this due to RP Drama they like to log everyones chat where they go without consent, and on their sim maybe they have the right to but problem occurs if you wear the meter outside their sim it logs where you teleport to, and what you are saying in local chat very invasion of privacy of course you could say this about any scripted item you can't see the code of however.

Instead if LL actually develop a good RP system that offered customization via web interface and allowed a user to set it up on their region it would be better than all cthese cheap RP systems on the market for example a mode for FPS gaming/combat with guns while another would be based on combat with swords, arrows, and resource collection similar to WOW & such. I would like to see something very new brought to Second Life that would bring Combat Back to Second Life, and actual RP which has pretty much been dead for years to me. 

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