Your Store - Your Reputation

[Rya Nitely]

This post is on ripped mesh content. If you're not interested or if you don't care then move along.

If you bought a full perm mesh item in the Marketplace at a bargain price, and you are using it in your own creations to resell then you should consider this.

The item may have been taken from a free 3D model site, and either ripped from a game or distributed with a license agreement.

If the 3D model was ripped from a game its use is illegal.

With almost all 3D models the true creator's license would prohibit the resale of the item for profit as part of your creation or stand-alone. The true creator should always be credited for the creation - you probably wouldn't know the name of the true creator.

These mesh rips are stolen, and buying stolen items to use in your creations for resale is illegal.

Many of these items are becoming well known and easily recognised. If your store is displaying even one of these items then a suspicious tag will be put on all your items. Don't risk it. It isn't worth it for something that will soon be seen everywhere. Many of these ripped items are becoming so common that soon they will be worthless. They will be known, not only by merchants but by customers too, as stolen content.

There are many signs that can help you to detect stolen items. One of these by itself is not a clue, but a combination of these signs might be -

 

• Sold by more than one merchant
• Very high quality mesh sold full perm and/or at very low prices
• Merchant sells only high quality mesh and no sculpted or standard prim items.
• Merchant usually has no inworld store and has a relatively new account.
• Read the SLUniverse thread on ripped content

 

Other thoughts on the subject -

I don't know where the problem with stolen mesh flooding the market will lead. It's interesting to watch as the problem looks like its escalating out of control. Either something has to be done or we will have completely different conditions to adapt to in some way.

At the moment it's not so hard to identify the biggest offenders, but in time, when people become more cunning by disguising the items enough to raise doubt, then the genuine content creators in SL won't be able to compete anymore.

We will have to wait and watch to see how this unfolds - either LL steps in or many of us will be forced to step out.

So, when you add that stolen content to your creation, you are adding to a problem that in the long run may end up backfiring on you.

[Syle Devin]

I completely agree with everything you said. I was reading a thread from SLUniverse, a list of possible offenders, and a lot of consumers didn't seem to care. It's that there are tons of times when no one gets in trouble and no one gets caught so they just don't care. I think as content creators we need to not just try to get rid of offenders but instead try to get consumers to understand and agree with us. I mean if someone wants something, and the chances of them getting caught are small, they will most likely buy an illegal item to get it.

 

What would be really cool is if LL could get large companies into SL to allow for their content to be made and sold. For example imagine a large company such as disney in here allowing for their items to be sold on a percentage basis. But I'm not sure LL is headed in that direction.

[Amethyst Jetaime]

First I want to say that I will never condone or knowingly take part in the violation of anyone's IP rights and that I agree that ripped mesh content is certainly a problem, indeed all ripped content is, not just mesh.

The original creators don't seem to be doing much to protect their IP rights.  I've reported ripped content to its creator and other people have too, with no result.  They can't be bothered to file DMCA's or they simply don't care.  I just haven't heard of as many things being taken down as would be expected.  Until a DMCA is filed, LL can do nothing under the law.

The problem from the consumers point of view is that it is difficult for them to tell if the mesh content is ripped or not.  Most don't even know how to look for it on the internet and if they do, is it realistic to think someone is going to spend hours looking to see if one item is ripped before they buy it?  I don't think so. 

I do not agree at all with your "signs" list either for the reasons I give below.  None of them either individually or together is proof of ripped content.

 

• Sold by more than one merchant

There is plenty of legitimate content, both mesh and non mesh that is sold by more than one merchant because they bought it as a licensed full perm product from the original creator who intendeds it to be used by builders and designers.

 

• Very high quality mesh sold full perm and/or at very low prices

This is rather insulting to SL creators who really do create high quality mesh and sell it full perm to builders and designers. Some designers have been working in mesh for years prior to coming to SL and some are very talented and picked up the skills fast.    Selling full perm is a valid business model that has always been used in SL. There is also a perfectly valid marketing strategy to sell low and make your profit on volume. 

 

• Merchant sells only high quality mesh and no sculpted or standard prim items.

Mesh has been around longer than SL  It has been taught in colleges, universities and trade schools for years.  If someone has been working in mesh a long time either before coming to SL or outside of SL they very well could have not bothered with standard prim items or sculpts. 

 

• Merchant usually has no inworld store and has a relatively new account.

This old myth again.  Over my years in SL I have seen and heard of as much ripped content and other shady dealings in inworld stores as I have on MP.  Having an inworld store is no sign of merchant integrity.  LL actually polices the inworld stores LESS than they do MP.  You can't flag or review items in world.  If you have a problem with the product you have no recourse.  If the merchant fails to deliver goods after you pay your SOL unless the merchant cooperates.  For the most part, the only people that say having an inworld store is a protection to the consumer are people with inworld stores who have a vested interest in promoting this myth.  And what about the many merchants who closed inworld stores and sell on MP only now because the majority people buy MP now?  Are they suddenly illegitimate and shady?

 

People should take a stand against ripped content in all its forms, not just mesh but everything else too.  Certainly if you know or think something is ripped, then don't buy it.  But how many people accusing others of ripping content take the time to notify the IP rights owner?  Until a lot of people are doing this AND the owners of the IP rights file DMCA's. the problem of ripped content will continue.  LL can't do anything without a DMCA, short of requiring all content and its source files and licenses be submitted for approval before its allowed on the grid.  This would take an army and increase costs to consumers tremendously.

[Amethyst Jetaime]

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Syle Devin wrote:

What would be really cool is if LL could get large companies into SL to allow for their content to be made and sold. For example imagine a large company such as disney in here allowing for their items to be sold on a percentage basis. But I'm not sure LL is headed in that direction.

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Bringing in large content creators into SL would be its death as we know it.  Merchants and creators would be unable to compete with them or be at a severe disadvantage.  They complain now about cometition from ripped content, if large companies came to SL the merchants and creators haven't seen anything yet. SL would become just another crass over commercialized place.

 

[Rya Nitely]

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Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

I do not agree at all with your "signs" list either for the reasons I give below.  None of them either individually or together is proof of ripped content.

 

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You intentionally ignore that I used the word 'clue' and not proof. Or maybe you just didn't understand so let me rephrase it. A combination of those signs might be a clue but one of these on its own is not.

There are many obvious stores on the MP that are selling ripped mesh, where you don't need anymore proof. Short of naming those stores here I gave a short list of what to look out for.

In your last paragraph you sound like you're saying exactly what I am but in different words

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Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

People should take a stand against ripped content in all its forms, not just mesh but everything else too.  Certainly if you know or think something is ripped, then don't buy it.  But how many people accusing others of ripping content take the time to notify the IP rights owner?  Until a lot of people are doing this AND the owners of the IP rights file DMCA's. the problem of ripped content will continue.  LL can't do anything without a DMCA, short of requiring all content and its source files and licenses be submitted for approval before its allowed on the grid.  This would take an army and increase costs to consumers tremendously.

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You say people should take a stand. How, if you are going to try to tear them down like you did me? I'm taking a stand. You say 'don't buy it if you think something is ripped'. How, if you don't look for signs or something that gives you an indication that it might be ripped?

 

 

If people want nothing less than sound proof to stop them buying these items then we're lost.

I am quite aware of how hard it is for LL to police the whole thing, hence my concerns here.

You might not realise it but your attitute comes across as argumentative and defeatist - and this will only be encouraging to those doing the wrong thing.

As for your last post on large content creators killing the market - there's no need for  companies like Disney, EA, Valve or Bethesda etc. to enter this market when their items are already flooding in and becoming widespread in a ripped form.

But at the risk of being torn down by people like you it's best to just shut up and let it happen.

[Rya Nitely]

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Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

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 They complain now about cometition from ripped content.

 

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I note you use the words 'they complain...'.

Saying 'they and not 'we' indicates how you see the situation. I think it's more likely that you don't care and you're looking to find fault with those who do.

[Tari Landar]

Your post points out one of the main reasons I don't build with mesh. I don't mean that in a bad way either. All of the points you, and others, have brought up about mesh and potentially ripped mesh, are valid and ought to be considered by anyone building with mesh.

However, Amethyst's post also brings up a point that not all who purchase are going to know exactly where to look, or how to find the "original creator" when they buy something. Now I know buyers could simply just not buy, and that is a reasonable response, I'm just not sure it's the most effective way. Because it really would have a bad impact on a lot of creators, primarily those who create high quality mesh for builders. It will affect them, whether we like it or not. I know because it makes ME not want to buy any full perm mesh, and I don't. If I haven't the time, and I often don't, to go scouring the net for the possibility that someone has ripped content from someone else, I can imagine a lot of others don't either. So people are losing sales, that much is a fact.

For me, not using mesh is really not a big deal. I'm not overly fond of it and I really can take it or leave it. I don't buy a whole lot of mesh products anyway. It's not a great loss to me. I had considered buying it full perm, at least some things, as I have with sculpts but quickly realized how easy it is to end up with stolen content or at least be accused of exactly that.

If/when I do decide I want to begin using mesh, I'll do it with mesh I've created myself. That will save me the trouble of having to look all over the net, and will save me from worrying about being called a thief, as well. Because that's really what it amounts to. Both the person selling the ripped content AND any potential customers will both be called a thief.

Ignorance of something, or its consequences, doesn't mean we should do it anyway. It IS an excuse, but it's not really a good one. I just won't say flat out it can't or shouldn't happen, because it does.

I have dealt with this issue with sculpts already.  A creator accused me of stealing her sculpt maps and using them in my products when someone bought something from me and apparently "thought it looked familiar". That was not a fun process, by any means, despite NOT being guilty. Though I totally understand why it had to happen and I am GLAD creators have things in place to help protect them, I did NOT enjoy it and it did have a huge impact on my business for a while. It had a huge impact on me for a while too. I didn't steal the maps, I bought them full perm from their original creator , who incidentally passed away not long after this debacle was settled. The person who accused me, however, DID steal them and apparently "forgot" they were botted, or pretended not to know, I'm not sure. She's no longer in sl, and neither is her store-I doubt it's related to this incident. But it was still a nearly 9 month process and one I wouldn't wish on anyone. Being in the right, as I was the entire process, didn't stop others from treating me like crap because of the word of a moron. So personally I don't just trust someone when they say something is ripped, I know better. I look into it as best I can, myself. It was NOT pleasant being painted a thief and trying to recover from that. It had a bigger impact than it should have because word of mouth travels at the speed of light and bad word of mouth travels even faster-and picks up a hell of a lot of passengers along the way. I'm not a huge merchant. I started as a hobbyist and I continue to be a hobbyist, even when I made my rl living in sl I didn't consider myself more than a hobbyist(a serious one, but one nonetheless). I still stand by all of my work and I always have.

I could have let that particular experience sour me from ever using full perm anything. It was really tempting. If I did that though, I'd be hurting the people who create full perm as their primary business. That hardly seems fair, to either of us. So, I'm cautious, but not to the point of paranoia, at least not anymore. I was for a while though. I have no qualms admitting that. When we buy full perm we've only the creator's word to go on, regardless of what it is we buy. I wasn't being ignorant on stolen content, in the least. I've HAD stuff I made ripped before too, so I can see it from both sides. I have always been very, very careful and doing what I consider to be the most I can do to ensure I'm not buying stolen goods. But I won't pretend it can't happen, or won't happen, it does and the blame, for me, does not sit entirely on the shoulders of the purchaser. I have never knowingly bought stolen content. Even if there is just a rumor it is, I will stay far, far away, because I know the possible repercussions if I don't. Even just the word of mouth rumors with no real backing can be as damaging as actual legal trouble surrounding it. Some people say "well if you're not guilty of anything, you'll be alright", but it's not nearly as simple as it may seem. That should be the case, but it's not, because we're dealing with humans and we're generally not the best species in the world when it comes to how we treat others. Sometimes false accusations are just as damaging.

I was once accused of ripping content while I was building for RFL in SL too(this was not an item to be sold by any means). That one stung, big time. It nearly stopped my entire build in it's tracks. A build I'd been working on since the year prior to that relay weekend. Yes a build I literally worked on, for a year. It wasn't true, and it took a bit of explaining to the person who contacted me. I had guessed this person forgot they actually released that product as a full perm project, because when I showed that person the transaction info(with THEIR name as the creator/seller, full perm on the package, thankfully I had kept the records of prior year's sales), they stopped talking to me. Now that time, it wasn't a long process and was rather simple-imo to prove I hadn't ripped anything, but it still had an effect on me it should not have. I KNEW I was in the right from the word go, but the creator-and a few friends that person told, didn't stop to consider that before deciding to bad mouth me. If you think it had no impact on others also participating in that charity event, you're mistaken. It did, and it continues to, even years later, all because one person didn't ask questions first but rather jumped to conclusions and launched into tirade mode. I rarely take the word of just one person when it comes to many things, but this goes double for ripped content. That's primarily because of my experience. Surprisingly, I'm not mad at the creator, and actually never was. I was severely disapointed and frustrated, but not angry. I understand wanting to protect your work, I really do.

Unfortunately with mesh, it's actually a lot easier to find and/or rip models to use. Not that it's super difficult with sculpts, either, but I think it's far easier with mesh because it is literally everywhere. I've seen it, firsthand. So, I just avoid it, plain and simple. No risk on my part in that scenario. Eventually I'll get good and confident enough in my skills that if I wanted to do mesh products, I could. Until then, I rarely buy mesh and never build with it.

I do however understand also where Amethyst has said the creators don't care, because some truly don't. I'm not condoning buying or selling ripped content, far from it actually. But if creators won't put their foot down, we can't blame the consumer, either. The responsibility IS on us as creators to protect, as best we can, our products. It also helps us all to protect one another as well. I just won't condemn all who buy ripped content, despite knowing that ignorance isn't a good excuse. I just have a hard time blaming the customer in some cases when a creator shows little to no interest in protecting their work. I do know some creators that don't care at all, too, they release their works with all rights to do whatever, to their customers. Which might give some consumers a bit of a false understanding of EULAs or TOS agreements that aren't written out in plain language for them to understand. I know that sounds like I am blaming the creator only, and I'm really not. I just think they hold a bit more of the responsibility than the end user does. Though the end user holds some as well.

TLDR; I don't have any better answers than anyone else on how exactly to curb, let alone stop, this problem. It IS a problem, no one can deny that. There are just other consequences of playing vigilante as well and certainty is better than assumption when it comes to this. Warning signs are important, people just have to also realize they are, as you said, only a potential clue, NOT a complete answer.

[Rya Nitely]

I'd like to go back to the main point, which was as a word of caution to merchants, that if you display a well known stolen mesh item in your store then it will cast suspicion on you. I know that this is already happening as I have read the SLUniverse thread.

I would certainly not like people discussing  my store in that thread and I assume others wouldn't either.

But here is one site people can start checking on. It clearly states in the Terms and Conditions that the items on this site should not be resold in any form. Some of the items on this site are stolen from games.

http://tf3dm.com/3d-models/all

Turbosquid is another site that prohibits the sale of its items in SL.

Here are a couple of items that are becoming so popular they will soon be everywhere and worthless

This following model is from a game called The Testament of Sherlock Holmes

http://tf3dm.com/3d-model/statue-93070.html

 

The next link is a picture of a common stolen mesh from a game called Alice Madness returns

 

http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/3729/tearsrock.jpg

 

I think it would be a lot worse if there were no threads on this subject and people were unknowingly adding such content to their stores for everyone to see and judge.

 Edited to remove a link

[Rya Nitely]

Tari, I know you say you don't build in mesh but mesh is the future. Nobody will be using sculpties or standard prims soon. Especially when you look at the high quality you can obtain with mesh that you just can't get with sculpties or standard prims. So this problem doesn't only affect mesh builders, it affects all merchants.

Although stolen items haven't had a huge impact on clothing stores yet -  I suspect it's just a mattter of time before this happens.

[Dartagan Shepherd]

I have to point out yet again that the ball is and always has been in LL's court. I'm not saying that LL should do these things now (although morally and legally they actually should), but these are some of the differences between LL and a reputable affiliate company in any industry.

1) They use real money and thus merchants and thieves are subject to real consumer protection, laws and legal recourse. Real money legitimizes the business of content creation in a way that no TOS or even the DMCA process can.

2) They require real ID and binding agreements, not a free for all with a TOS that mostly wouldn't hold up in court.

3) They restrict free content to those authorized sellers, and put strict limitations on the amount of free content available.

4) They put a minimum price requirement on items that sends a message to people that this item has real worth. It also has the bonus of both the affiliate and the artist making money.

5) The system is engineered so that the higher the price of the item, the more both sides make, rather than monetizing things to the point that freebies equate to free labor and free content for the affiliate company.

6) Because the affiliate company isn't busy pissing company money away on supporting a free play model, they can afford to police their sellers and promptly flag and/or ban repeat offenders (Not that LL couldn't now, if they can afford to invest in new products they can afford to police content.).

7) Related to the above, an affiliate can also ban buyers if they abuse the terms of content purchased from them.

8) Plans are in place to distinquish between average sellers and sellers with good track records, establishing even higher levels of trust among their own sellers.

I could go on here, but you get the idea. Some merchants wouldn't want some of these things to happen, some would. We've had debates about various aspects of this in the past not really worth going into again here.

But the bottom line is that LL sets themselves and their merchants up for abuse with fake money, and a TOS based on keeping the entire business "fictional". Because of this SL is more like a game with people ripping models and mods than it is like a platform for professional content creators.

It is what it is, but the solutions and blame don't start with merchants and users who are so easily allowed to steal and profit from it, it starts with LL as very effective enablers of criminal activity.

[Czari Zenovka]

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Amethyst Jetaime wrote:hours looking to see if one item is ripped before they buy it?  I don't think so. 

 

• Merchant usually has no inworld store and has a relatively new account.

This old myth again.  Over my years in SL

I have seen and heard of as much ripped content and other shady dealings in inworld stores as I have on MP.

  Having an inworld store is no sign of merchant integrity.  LL actually polices the inworld stores LESS than they do MP.  You can't flag or review items in world.  If you have a problem with the product you have no recourse.  If the merchant fails to deliver goods after you pay your SOL unless the merchant cooperates.  For the most part, the only people that say having an inworld store is a protection to the consumer are people with inworld stores who have a vested interest in promoting this myth. 

And what about the many merchants who closed inworld stores and sell on MP only now because the majority people buy MP now?  Are they suddenly illegitimate and shady?

 

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(Bolding mine)

I, too, agree with Rya's overall comments, but wanted to elaborate on the above.

In In 2007-2009 I did more exploring in world - everything was still "new and shiny" to me.  I had also initially acquired many freebies when I first began SL in 2007.  One day I came across a lovely store - what attracted me to it was that it was set up as an "open air" market and very well done.  It was also situated on a medium-large size parcel. I start looking around and noticed that the items seem "familiar."   While continuing to walk about, I came upon a chair that I obtained in a freebie store and had rezzed in my first SL home for months.  IDENTICAL.  I was appalled to see it being sold; the price wasn't a lot, but just it being for sale when it was a freebie that not only I had, but one that I saw many places in SL.  As I kept looking I discovered more items I personally owned - all freebies.  Bottom line - it finally dawned on me that someone had created a lovely market/store but was selling freebies; not only that, but had changed the perms to be mod/trans or maybe just trans; at any rate, not full perms.

Back then I didn't know about reporting ripped items and I thought this shop was likely an aberration, until shortly thereafter I came upon another store, this time smaller and meant for people in a particular rp community, but still selling the same freebie items.

I'm one of those merchants who currently does not have a store in world - the first time in my five years as a merchant. My reputation as a merchant is important to me and I offer my customers excellent service, so not having an in world store in and of itself is no indication of anything nefarious, imo.

Edit: clarification

[Czari Zenovka]

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Rya Nitely wrote:

Nobody will be using sculpties or standard prims soon. Especially when you look at the high quality you can obtain with mesh that you just can't get with sculpties or standard prims. So this problem doesn't only affect mesh builders, it affects all merchants.

 

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Using broad brush terms like "nobody" and "everybody" is generally not a good idea and is often wrong.  It may be that a "majority" of merchants will be building with mesh "soon" but, like Tari, I have no interest in building with mesh, at least for the foreseeable future.  My builds are simple and such that using mesh would have no real advantage.  As creators, especially if we don't socialize with non-builders much, we can become somewhat insular in our thinking.  There are a large number of people, judging from some of the posts on the General Discussion forums, as well as my conversations in world with people, that indicate not everyone is enamored with mesh.  Some might try an item of clothing here and there and decide they don't want to mod their bodies to fit the mesh; others have a few items in their homes made of mesh, but have no intention of going "totally mesh" - they buy what they like be it prims, sculpts, mesh, etc.

Right now mesh is "hot" but I predict it will eventually even out and find its place in SL creations as sculpts did and become a part of SL creation tools, not the end-all, be-all. 

[Paul Hexem]

This is something where, no matter what we do, it's not going to help unless LL does something about it.

 

I recently found a store in-world selling mesh outfits for RP. They had quite a few customers floating around, buying things.

 

Being a gamer, I recognized outfits from Dragon Age, Skyrim, Assassin's Creed, and more. Most of the customers there had no idea what I was talking about. One even said that I was lying, because "if this stuff really was stolen, LL wouldn't let him sell it".

[Tari Landar]

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Rya Nitely wrote:

Tari, I know you say you don't build in mesh but mesh is the future. Nobody will be using sculpties or standard prims soon. Especially when you look at the high quality you can obtain with mesh that you just can't get with sculpties or standard prims. So this problem doesn't only affect mesh builders, it affects all merchants.

Although stolen items haven't had a huge impact on clothing stores yet -  I suspect it's just a mattter of time before this happens.

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I know mesh is the future, it's also part of the present, and even the past at this point. I also never said ripped content doesn't have any effect on me at all-I actually said it does in the opening line of my post. It affects the entire net, not even just sl in general. What doesn't have an impact on me, right now, is my choice to NOT buy full perm mesh or build with others' premade mesh. The reason that choice itself has no impact on me, is because I don't currently-and don't want to in the near future either-build with mesh. So it's an easy choice for me to make, to decide not to buy it. My decision not to buy has more of an impact on everyone else than it does me, currently. Ripped content in and of itself, affects everyone, though.

I disagree that nobody will be using sculpts or even regular prims. Though I'm certain it's pointless to try and discuss it, as that topic tends to bore people to death. I can say however that the same was said of regular prims when sculpts came about. Those two have co-existed just fine for quite some time now, despite the complaints that they couldn't, and wouldn't. I don't deny that you can create things with mesh that are either too difficult or too prim/land impact heavy when you use sculpts and regular prims. However there are a TON of people who still build with regular prims, and even more who use sculpts and are perfectly content continuing to use them. I never said I wouldn't ever build with mesh, either. At some point in the future I am sure I will, to some extent. I'll still continue using regular prims and sculpts though. Yes eventually we will probably see more mesh than we do regular prims. I believe it will take a lot longer to see less sculpts than mesh, though. But this particular point(other prims basically going exitinct) really has nothing at all to do with the topic of ripped content.

[Czari Zenovka]

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Gadget Portal wrote:

One even said that I was lying, because "if this stuff really was stolen, LL wouldn't let him sell it".

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Wasn't sure which emoticon was more appropriate, so used them both. 

Goes to the point that a good number of the SL customer base has no clue about all this.

[Madeline Blackbart]

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Czari Zenovka wrote:

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Gadget Portal wrote:

One even said that I was lying, because "if this stuff really was stolen, LL wouldn't let him sell it".

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Wasn't sure which emoticon was more appropriate, so used them both. 

Goes to the point that a good number of the SL customer base has no clue about all this.

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That and the customer base doesn't care to know either. Which just propagates the issue.

[Perrie Juran]

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Czari Zenovka wrote:

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Gadget Portal wrote:

One even said that I was lying, because "if this stuff really was stolen, LL wouldn't let him sell it".

---

    

 

Wasn't sure which emoticon was more appropriate, so used them both. 

Goes to the point that a good number of the SL customer base has no clue about all this.

---

Real life home work assignment my daughter brought home in High School assigned by the Student Teacher for English class:

"Burn a Music CD with your five favorite songs and write a paragraph about each one explaining why the song is important to you."

A quick note to the Principal about copyright laws and intellectual property rights and theft got that assignment killed very quickly.

[Teagan Tobias]

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Madeline Blackbart wrote:

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Czari Zenovka wrote:

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Gadget Portal wrote:

One even said that I was lying, because "if this stuff really was stolen, LL wouldn't let him sell it".

---

    

 

Wasn't sure which emoticon was more appropriate, so used them both. 

Goes to the point that a good number of the SL customer base has no clue about all this.

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That and the customer base doesn't care to know either. Which just propagates the issue.

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Stores in world have become to hard to find, and when there is only one LL store, the Market Place, the customer has only two options;

1) buy from the MP with confidence.

2) don't buy from the Market Place, or any place, at all.

If there is a problem with stolen items being sold on the MP, the customer is the last place to put the blame, if even blaming them in the very smallest way, or at all.

[Luna Bliss]

Good you started a discussion on this Rya, and posted the woman and ivy rip.

 

I had no idea the woman and ivy statue I used in one of my water creations was ripped - I just removed it from the MP and will delete it in my store when I can get in-world.

 

Maybe as we see ripped items in SL we can increase awareness by posting the link to the ripped source, without naming any store here of course.

However, the MP doesn't get a lot of views, so best to do it @ SLUniverse too.

[Theresa Tennyson]

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Perrie Juran wrote:

Real life home work assignment my daughter brought home in High School assigned by the Student Teacher for English class:

"Burn a Music CD with your five favorite songs and write a paragraph about each one explaining why the song is important to you."

A quick note to the Principal about copyright laws and intellectual property rights and theft got that assignment killed very quickly.

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 Someone else should have done their homework too - classroom use falls under "fair use":

 

17 USC § 107 - Limitations on exclusive rights: Fair use

• Notwithstanding the provisions of sections 106 and 106A, the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright. In determining whether the use made of a work in any particular case is a fair use the factors to be considered shall include—

1) the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;

(2) the nature of the copyrighted work;

(3) the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and

(4) the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.

The fact that a work is unpublished shall not itself bar a finding of fair use if such finding is made upon consideration of all the above factors.

[Czari Zenovka]

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Teagan Tobias wrote:

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Madeline Blackbart wrote:

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Czari Zenovka wrote:

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Gadget Portal wrote:

One even said that I was lying, because "if this stuff really was stolen, LL wouldn't let him sell it".

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Wasn't sure which emoticon was more appropriate, so used them both. 

Goes to the point that a good number of the SL customer base has no clue about all this.

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That and the customer base doesn't care to know either. Which just propagates the issue.

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Stores in world have become to hard to find, and when there is only one LL store, the Market Place, the customer has only two options;

1) buy from the MP with confidence.

2) don't buy from the Market Place, or any place, at all.

If there is a problem with stolen items being sold on the MP, the customer is the last place to put the blame, if even blaming them in the very smallest way, or at all.

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I didn't see anyone blaming the customer, in fact Tari specifically stated that while it was "Buyer Beware" (or words to that effect), that the onus for legitimate content rests squarely on the creator/merchant.

[Medhue Simoni]

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Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

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Syle Devin wrote:

What would be really cool is if LL could get large companies into SL to allow for their content to be made and sold. For example imagine a large company such as disney in here allowing for their items to be sold on a percentage basis. But I'm not sure LL is headed in that direction.

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Bringing in large content creators into SL would be its death as we know it.  Merchants and creators would be unable to compete with them or be at a severe disadvantage.  They complain now about cometition from ripped content, if large companies came to SL the merchants and creators haven't seen anything yet. SL would become just another crass over commercialized place.

 

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I call BS! Why can't we compete? Many of us do this for a living. Many of us could work at game companies and have. Many of us know more than those hacks at game companies. How many people in the game industry could even create a successful business in SL? Not many! Mesh has been out for a long time now. Do you know any merchants that came in specifically for mesh? Oh, there are many, but you don't know them because they make things just like every1 else. They don't use magic pixie dust to make meshes. They make them just like the rest of us. To me, it's laughable that some game company could walk in and displace us all. Sure, maybe a game company could come in and create a game that people like, but as for individual content, they would not be able to compete with a seasoned SL merchant. IMHO.

[Paul Hexem]

Medhue is right. Said companies make entire games. Individual employees or small departments make the content.

 

Just look at mods for games like Skyrim. A lot of those modders make content, mesh and textures and animations, to use in the game that the original developer never dreamed of.

[Perrie Juran]

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Theresa Tennyson wrote:

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Perrie Juran wrote:

Real life home work assignment my daughter brought home in High School assigned by the Student Teacher for English class:

"Burn a Music CD with your five favorite songs and write a paragraph about each one explaining why the song is important to you."

A quick note to the Principal about copyright laws and intellectual property rights and theft got that assignment killed very quickly.

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 Someone else should have done their homework too - classroom use falls under "fair use":

 

17 USC § 107 - Limitations on exclusive rights: Fair use

• Notwithstanding the provisions of sections
  106
  and
  106A
  , the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright. In determining whether the use made of a work in any particular case is a fair use the factors to be considered shall include—

1)

the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;

(2)

the nature of the copyrighted work;

(3)

the amount and substantiality of the portion

used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and

(4)

the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.

The fact that a work is unpublished shall not itself bar a finding of fair use if such finding is made upon consideration of all the above factors.

---

Note carefully the section I bolded above.  It does not allow for the copying of an entire work.

Standford University Library used to be a lot easier to search on this and I don't have the time right now to dig out all the citations I used to have. That was a few hard drives ago.

For now I'll give you this:

Fair Use Guidelines for Educational Multimedia

 

2.1 By Students:

Students may incorporate portions of lawfully acquired copyrighted works when producing their own educational multimedia projects for a specific course.  (my bolding)

4.2.3 Music, Lyrics, and Music Video

Up to 10%, but in no event more than 30 seconds, of the music and lyrics from an individual musical work.

 

There is no Carte Blanche to copy a work in total for "Educational Purposes."

The real intent of my post was that we have a whole generation signing up for Second Life who have been raised on "it doesn't matter,"  or even worse, "screw the content creators, it should all be free anyways.

 

 

 

 

[Medhue Simoni]

I just want to point out that the OP, Rya, points out that those ripped meshes are recognized and give the merchant a bad reputation. So, what we are seeing is that the "Market" has it's own way of sorting this stuff out. Rya also points out that the price for these ripped items will quickly reach 0. This is the beauty of a Free and Open Market. We don't need the mesh police.

All this has been talked about before, and, pretty much, everything I said would happen has. Why? Cause it is easily predictable. Running a long term business can't be done by ripping content. Ripping is a short term affair. Nobody ripping content will be remembered a year from now. Those of us that take mesh and make things that enhance SL, we'll still be around. SL is a dynamic platform. A static mesh that does nothing but look pretty is not a very valuable item in SL.

Let me also point out, that games have restrictions in what is made, and how. SL doesn't have those same restrictions. So, if you are ripping content from games, your selection will be limited to those game's themes. Anything outside of those themes, which is unlimited, is wide open for a good merchant to exploit.