What's the best way of determining your height?

[Myra Wildmist]

I seem to have a few height measurement tools, but all the ones I have have this basic formula inside:

heightfeet = size.z * 3.28083

So I guess it's just grabbing my Z coordinate and doing a conversion on it to feet and inches. However, I've noticed others around sl give me a different height, sometimes a couple of inches higher. I know to take my shoes off, btw. : )

Is there an accept standard for determining an avatar's height? Does LL have something they use?

Also, why 3.28083? What's that?

I'm thinking about shortening myself, but that's a topic for another thread. : )

Thanks for any help.

[Dresden Ceriano]

Measure yourself with an actual prim... that's the only way to make sure.

...Dres

[Myra Wildmist]

Hi, dresden.

Sorry, I'm not the most technical person. Would you mind explaining that, please? What do you mean? Should I create a prim box and eyeball its height to line up with my feet and the top of my head?

 

[Dresden Ceriano]

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Myra Wildmist wrote:

Hi, dresden.

Sorry, I'm not the most technical person. Would you mind explaining that, please? What do you mean? Should I create a prim box and eyeball its height to line up with my feet and the top of my head?

 

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Exactly.  As of yet, that is really the most accurate way to measure yourself, given the limitations and distortions of any other tool.

...Dres

[Madeline Blackbart]

I use this ruler https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/OO-Avatar-Ruler-precise-height-detector/2769845 It's pretty accurate and if you click it it gives you your hieght. Super easy.

[Rhys Goode]

I've tried rezzing a box, taking off my hair and shoes, and adjusting the box till I find my "exact height".  Then my AO changes the pose..

You've got to strike a standard pose to get your exact height, just as you do at the RL docs for a checkup.  Sadly, SL is silent on what exactly is the standard pose.

After much trial and error, I came to the conclusion 15 or 20 % taller than RL.  Then I lost interest.

[Myra Wildmist]

FYI, 3.28083 feet is one meter. The system returns a Z value in meters, of course.

Myra Wildmist hangs her head in shame.

[Myra Wildmist]

Also, I presume the measurement shown my the slider is inaccurate. It seems to add about 6 inches to what the height measurers say. Or should I use that??

[Kelli May]

Take off shoes and hair. If you normally wear prim feet as part of your look, leave those on.

Get on a freebie pose-stand with a straight-back, feet together pose. Something like this is fine. 

Rez a box and drag it to your avatar's centre. It doesn't have to be exact for this measurement.

In the build menu, make sure the "stretch both sides" box is unticked.

Drag the bottom of the box to the bottom of your feet. Drag the top to the top of your head. 

Read off the z-value for the size of the box. This is your av's true height in metres.

Convert to the measurement system of your choice.

 

[Jaida Renilo]

Is Appearance information standard between all viewers? If so, why not just go into appearance and see the height right there? You can change it to metric there as well.

[Drake1 Nightfire]

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Jaida Renilo wrote:

Is Appearance information standard between all viewers? If so, why not just go into appearance and see the height right there? You can change it to metric there as well.

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its is not even remotely the same in all viewers.. not even close.. Firestorm is the closest to accurate i believe.

[Ceka Cianci]

ya firestrom is the closest to accurate..the LL viewer just does the agent height which will be shorter,..

 

getting  a pose stand that uses the T pose is the best way to get it using a prim..

i know there is a real good free one which i can't remember the name of on the market..

 

something professional pose stand..that has a few good poses plus the T pose..if you are on firestorm you can see how close it is..

i remember it used to be almost right there..

but that was a few versions ago..

[Coby Foden]

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Jaida Renilo wrote:

Is Appearance information standard between all viewers? If so, why not just go into appearance and see the height right there? You can change it to metric there as well.

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Well, unfortunately it isn't.  Linden lab viewers show what is called "Agent Height". The avatar mesh itself is taller than this Agent Height reported by Linden Lab viewers. The sad thing is that lots of people assume that the height shown in Linden Lab viewers is avatar's mesh height. Causes a lot of confusion about avatar height. Linden Lab is well aware of this, but it seems the task is too difficult for them to correct. I guess it might be complicated task to code the exact avatar's mesh height into the viewer. It would mean to find a way to measure/calculate the vertical distance between avatar's lowest and highest vertices, and code that into the viewer.

Some third party viewers show more correctly the actual avatar mesh height - instead of the "Agent Height". They will display pretty closely the true mesh height of an avatar - they are a bit off too however. But as said, they come pretty close anyway.

Then there are some scripted prims. Some show (stupidly) the same Agent Height as Linden lab viewers do. Some show what is often called "Prim Height" which comes very close to the true mesh height of an avatar.

So, in all, to get exactly the correct height of an avatar is to pose the avatar on some pose stand, then rez a box, stretch the box so that it is exactly the lenght of the avatar - from the lowest point of feet soles to the highest point of the skull. Without any shoes, without any shoe bases and without any hair. Then look in the build window what it shows for the prim height. That is the exact accurate height of the avatar's mesh.

[Myra Wildmist]

Jada, If I'm understanding what you're saying, the Agent Height is shorter than the actual height of the avatar as measured from the bottom of the feet to the top of the head.

(I found this wiki, which I think is germane. http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/LlGetAgentSize.)

I get the opposite results using the FS viewer, though. The FS viewer reports me as taller than what I'm getting using the prim method or other measurement tools. (I haven't looked at the LL viewer.) The viewer in edit shape shows a height about 6 inches taller. I checked this a few times, redoing my prim box 3 times, so I'm not sure what's going on. I guess it's what you said about 3rd party viewers using "actual avatar mesh height", but "...they are a bit off too..."

I'll try to check the LL viewer, later, and see if it's different.

[Coby Foden]

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Myra Wildmist wrote:

Jada, If I'm understanding what you're saying, the Agent Height is shorter than the actual height of the avatar as measured from the bottom of the feet to the top of the head.

(I found this wiki, which I think is germane.

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/LlGetAgentSize.)

I get the opposite results using the FS viewer, though. The FS viewer reports me as taller than what I'm getting using the prim method or other measurement tools. (I haven't looked at the LL viewer.) The viewer in edit shape shows a height about 6 inches taller. I checked this a few times, redoing my prim box 3 times, so I'm not sure what's going on. I guess it's what you said about 3rd party viewers using "actual avatar mesh height", but "...they are a bit off too..."

I'll try to check the LL viewer, later, and see if it's different.

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Last time I made measurements the difference between prim measurement and Firestorm was about a bit less than 2 centimeters (less than one inch) - Firestorm showing the about 2 cm taller than prim measurement.

To get accurate measurement with prim you must pose the avatar so that it is standing straight, legs close to each other (not spread far apart).  It's good to make the prim semi-transparent, then place it so that the avatar is inside. Then look at the bottom of prim, move it so that it just touches the avatar feet soles. Then look at the top of prim, strech the top so that it just touches the topmost part of the skull.

PS.

One thing to note: If you are using an older version of Firestorm which had the Height Offset it needs to be set to zero, else the viewer will show totally wrong measurement.

[Perrie Juran]

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Coby Foden wrote:

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Myra Wildmist wrote:

Jada, If I'm understanding what you're saying, the Agent Height is shorter than the actual height of the avatar as measured from the bottom of the feet to the top of the head.

(I found this wiki, which I think is germane.

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/LlGetAgentSize.)

I get the opposite results using the FS viewer, though. The FS viewer reports me as taller than what I'm getting using the prim method or other measurement tools. (I haven't looked at the LL viewer.) The viewer in edit shape shows a height about 6 inches taller. I checked this a few times, redoing my prim box 3 times, so I'm not sure what's going on. I guess it's what you said about 3rd party viewers using "actual avatar mesh height", but "...they are a bit off too..."

I'll try to check the LL viewer, later, and see if it's different.

---

Last time I made measurements the difference between prim measurement and Firestorm was about a bit less than 2 centimeters (less than one inch) - Firestorm showing the about 2 cm taller than prim measurement.

To get accurate measurement with prim you must pose the avatar so that it is standing straight, legs close to each other (not spread far apart).  It's good to make the prim semi-transparent, then place it so that the avatar is inside. Then look at the bottom of prim, move it so that it just touches the avatar feet soles. Then look at the top of prim, strech the top so that it just touches the topmost part of the skull.

PS.

One thing to note: If you are using an older version of Firestorm which had the Height Offset it needs to be set to zero, else the viewer will show totally wrong measurement.

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As I recall Firestorm uses an algo based on agent height to arrive at "true avatar height."  It's pretty accurate but not perfect. 

I did a brief search of the FS Wiki but couldnt turn up the specifics.  I know this has been discussed before.

[Coby Foden]

Here are the results what I get for my height:

1.803 meters (5.915 feet) <-- measured with prim
1.820 meters (5.971 feet) <-- Phoenix/Firestorm
1.620 meters (5.315 feet) <-- Linden Lab viewer

So Firestorm comes pretty close to the true height as measured with prim.
Linden Lab viewer (showing Agent Height) is way off from the avatar's mesh height.

Firestorm uses calculation Agent Height + a correction factor to come close to the true mesh height.

 

[Myra Wildmist]

Thanks for doing that, Coby. That's great to know. Odd that LL viewer is so much shorter. Has it always been that way I wonder?

I'm seeing more "short" avatars these days; maybe they're relying on the LL measurement too much. (EFA. That wouldn't make sense. That would result in taller avatars if they were using LL.)

Thanks everyone for your input on this thread.

[Coby Foden]

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Myra Wildmist wrote:

Thanks for doing that, Coby. That's great to know. Odd that LL viewer is so much shorter. Has it always been that way I wonder?

I'm seeing more "short" avatars these days; maybe they're relying on the LL measurement too much. (EFA. That wouldn't make sense. That would result in taller avatars if they were using LL.)

Thanks everyone for your input on this thread.

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Yes, it's been like that since the beginning - Linden Lab viewers have always shown the Agent Height.

I guess more and more people are beginning to see the advantages of making the avatars' heights more closely to what people are in the real world. Maybe after few years the general scale in SL is more coherent than what it is now. Which would be great. In games the scale of things is consistent, but unfortunately SL in general has gone its own mysterious way in this matter.

You're right, if people rely in Linden Lab viewer's "Height" they indeed are taller that what they think.

[TishaRogue]

Just a reminder to make sure your shoes are off to test the real height, most importantly the shoe base as this will effect the results.

[Penny Patton]

Looks like people beat me to it.

Well, at least I can shed some light on the issue of why height in the official viewer's appearance editor is so short compared to Firestorm and measuring yourself with a prim.

 Like others have pointed out, the official viewer's appearance editor uses "AgentSize", the feature LL set up specifically to let people know the size of an avatar.

 Problem is, AgentSize is broken.

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Myra Wildmist wrote:

Thanks for doing that, Coby. That's great to know. Odd that LL viewer is so much shorter. Has it always been that way I wonder?

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 Has height in the appearance editor always been incorrect? No, actually. Up until about 2009-2010, the SL appearance editor did not show avatar height at all. It was left a complete mystery. Up until the past few years, height was a very confusing issue in SL. Nopbody knew what was going on. 

AgentSize has always been broken, since beta at least. There's a lot of theories on why, the most sensible ones involving some well known issues with the old SL Physics engine which has long since been replaced.

 We'll probably never know why it's broken for sure. No one who presently works at Linden Lab seems to have any idea. Nyx Linden has been investigating the issue and promised it would be fixed, but nothing has come of it yet.

Anyway, around 2009-2010 LL introduced Viewer 2. The second release of Viewer 2 was the first to include avatar height in the appearance editor, unfortunately they went with AgentSize, despite the fact that they already knew it was broken.

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Myra Wildmist wrote:

I'm seeing more "short" avatars these days; maybe they're relying on the LL measurement too much. (EFA. That wouldn't make sense. That would result in taller avatars if they were using LL.)

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Like I pointed out in your other thread, it's a combination of things. Some of the starter avatars are smaller (still really tall, but smaller than starter avatars used to be, baby steps), people are more aware that if they own land, larger avatars and larger content means they're both wasting significant amounts of money and limiting how much content they can rez., and more RP builds are shrinking down, encouraging their visitors to do the same.

Also, way back around 2007 or so, there was a hysteria over "child avatars" in SL. "Short" avatars were considered "child avatars" and banned from many sims. Since the discrpency between AgentSize and actual avatar height can be as much as 7-8 inches, this meant that most avatars under about 6'3" were considered "child avatars". This hysteria has died down in recent years, only a handful of sims still ban short avatars.

[Perrie Juran]

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Penny Patton wrote:

 

 

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My great great grandfather was a cantankerous old hoot.

He didn't age well.

[Pussycat Catnap]

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Rhys Goode wrote:

I've tried rezzing a box, taking off my hair and shoes, and adjusting the box till I find my "exact height".  Then my AO changes the pose..

You've got to strike a standard pose to get your exact height, just as you do at the RL docs for a checkup.  Sadly, SL is silent on what exactly is the standard pose.

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Its not for sl to determine a mythical standard pose.

Just get one where you stand up, back straight, and feet together.

 

A basic t-pose can do this. They are common and I supply one for free with my free pose stand (see my inworld shop or search me on marketplace). But t-poses are common in many places.

[Pussycat Catnap]

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Myra Wildmist wrote:

Jada, If I'm understanding what you're saying, the Agent Height is shorter than the actual height of the avatar as measured from the bottom of the feet to the top of the head.

(I found this wiki, which I think is germane.

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/LlGetAgentSize.)

I get the opposite results using the FS viewer, though. The FS viewer reports me as taller than what I'm getting using the prim method or other measurement tools. (I haven't looked at the LL viewer.) The viewer in edit shape shows a height about 6 inches taller. I checked this a few times, redoing my prim box 3 times, so I'm not sure what's going on. I guess it's what you said about 3rd party viewers using "actual avatar mesh height", but "...they are a bit off too..."

I'll try to check the LL viewer, later, and see if it's different.

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All height tools use math to guess your height by taking agent height and either adding X or multiplying by X.  So all of them will be off.

 

Agent height goes from ground to eyes. The space above your eyes is set by head settings like forehead, egghead, and others. Obviously everyone is different here, and there is no lsl function to get someone's shape dials. This is why no height meter an get the right value.

Firestorm's guess is no better or worse than anyone else. For firestorm to be right you have to use the same head shape the coder/qa tester of firestorm's meter used.

[Myra Wildmist]

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Pussycat Catnap wrote:

 

All height tools use math to guess your height by taking agent height and either adding X or multiplying by X.  So all of them will be off.

 

Agent height goes from ground to eyes. The space above your eyes is set by head settings like forehead, egghead, and others. Obviously everyone is different here, and there is no lsl function to get someone's shape dials. This is why no height meter an get the right value.

Firestorm's guess is no better or worse than anyone else. For firestorm to be right you have to use the same head shape the coder/qa tester of firestorm's meter used.

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Maybe the best thing to do is take the mean of the prim height, the FS height and the LL height, and just use that as the baseline. : )

After looking at all three, I'd say I'm coming in around 6 2. A bit tall.