NativeTo Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 Alright, I understand that LL is VERY strict about IP laws, but I have a few questions.I have seen MANY items in-world that have famous logos and the such, and mostly walkers. If you don't know what a walker is, it plays a sound loop whenever you walk, most often a popular song.I took the IP quiz and got pretty much all the information I needed, but is it really safe to assume that ALL of these items, such as dancers, walkers, and shirts are licensed? Or the owners have permission?I'll be honest, it's a little hard to believe. And since I'm starting to get into content creation, I want to know how many people actually follow the rules when it comes to IP. Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frawmusl Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 Follow the rules, if ever someone comes cracking down on SL content they will hurt you bad in RL too. If you do not have IP rights to the content then DO NOT upload it. Assume the creator does not have content rights unless otherwise proven. Which in most cases they don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Jetaime Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 Although I am sure some do I highly doubt many are licensed but that doesn't make it right. The ones that are doing that just haven't been caught - yet. They may never be, because generally LL doesn't police it. The IP rights owner has to file a DMCA before LL does anything as a general rule. But that doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Some people will report you to the IP rights owner if they see you violating a copyright. All that said, look at it like this. If you are going to create content you are going to want other people to respect your IP rights. If you violate other people's by ripping content from the net, how can you seriously expect anyone to honor yours? You may get away with it but then again you may not. If you have a RL company come down on you by filing a DMCA and then taking you to court and to sue you, its going to cost you a lot of RL money, even if you win your case. Lawyers aren't cheap, and you might have to defend yourself in another location or even country other than where you live. It seems to me to be a large risk to take for the few lindens you are probably going to make selling things in SL. I'll warn you that you will probably get replies from other people urging you to ignore all this and do what you want because you won't get caught. There are a few that always seem to show up and say that anytime this issue is raised. Mostly they are people that don't believe people should be able to copyright anything, that everything you create should be available to anyone to do with as they wish and that it is wrong to charge anything for your work. Hopefully you are smart enough to ignore them and only use thing you personally create, have obtained permission to use, or that are in the public domain and are free for you to use. There is plenty of material out there that you can get permission for or are free for you to use Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NativeTo Posted July 21, 2013 Author Share Posted July 21, 2013 I see. So it's just a matter of "everybody's doing it" then. I figured it was still against the rules, since people are spending actual money for these types of items, I couldn't imagine that it was allowed. Thank you so much for the in-depth replies guys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eseli Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 in addition to this there is always the whole "free or sale" argument some people say that if you give an item out for free, it isn't breaking IP laws because you aren't making profit off of it... some people say it is because giving it out for free takes away sales from the content owner vice versa for if you sell it I personally say, why draw such lines around everything? just don't do it. the only one of those little rules i agree with is the one about "if you change it by 10% then you can", as then part of the object in question becomes yours in a sense... however, who judges what "10%" of a piece of work is? i cannot say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NativeTo Posted July 25, 2013 Author Share Posted July 25, 2013 Yeah, I'm a music producer by trade, so the whole 10% change thing is familiar to me on the remix level, but I've heard it's 30%. So it would still be bad/illegal to make, say, an Armin Van Buuren shirt and not sell it or give it away, just use it for myself, just to show my love for him and show my support? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freya Mokusei Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 NativeTo wrote: So it would still be bad/illegal to make, say, an Armin Van Buuren shirt and not sell it or give it away, just use it for myself, just to show my love for him and show my support? Remember that merchandising agreements probably already exist for artists signed to major labels. It might not matter how much you support artists in spirit, it's not always them who choose whether to persue infringement cases. I've seen several music-related clothing stores removed from SL for this reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red52 Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 Hello- I received an email today stating that a complaint had been made because I was infringing on IP content. Supposedly, several animations (salsa dances?) were the 'infringing content.' I have no idea what to do about this since this has never happened to me, and I didn't know I was infringing on anyone. I am not a creator or seller, and I always make my purchases through the marketplace or inworld stores. I am very confused by what all of this means - can someone please explain this to me? How do I find out who complained or where I got this content from? Shouldn't LL be going after the person/ people who gave it to me supposedly? Thank you, Red52 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monti Messmer Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 Hi Red52, if a creator gets his items removed about a copyright infringement then all the buyers gets the items in their inventory replaced by a placeholder. If you never uploaded, sold things then you should check if this email really comes from LindenLab or if it´s a scam ?!?! Monti Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sassy Romano Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 NativeTo wrote: Alright, I understand that LL is VERY strict about IP laws, but I have a few questions. No, really they're not. LL just comply with legal requests when required to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrie Juran Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 Red52 wrote: Hello- I received an email today stating that a complaint had been made because I was infringing on IP content. Supposedly, several animations (salsa dances?) were the 'infringing content.' I have no idea what to do about this since this has never happened to me, and I didn't know I was infringing on anyone. I am not a creator or seller, and I always make my purchases through the marketplace or inworld stores. I am very confused by what all of this means - can someone please explain this to me? How do I find out who complained or where I got this content from? Shouldn't LL be going after the person/ people who gave it to me supposedly? Thank you, Red52 Did the notice you recieved look like this? Hi Perrie Juran, We are writing to let you know that we removed some content you had in Second Life under our Intellectual Property Policy. For a list of the specific content we removed, please see the "IP Complaint Details" below at the bottom of this email. When we receive an intellectual property complaint, we investigate it and look for copies of the content identified in the complaint. Our investigation found that you had some of this content. We replaced the content with generic placeholder item(s), as described in our FAQs on our Intellectual Property Complaint Process. If you weren't aware of an intellectual property issue, don't panic or take it personally! Just take steps to avoid content that may have intellectual property issues. Here are some tips to protect yourself and keep your inworld shopping safe and fun. Many thanks for your interest in Second Life. -- The IP Team at Linden Lab Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czari Zenovka Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 Red52 wrote: Hello- I received an email today stating that a complaint had been made because I was infringing on IP content. Supposedly, several animations (salsa dances?) were the 'infringing content.' I have no idea what to do about this since this has never happened to me, and I didn't know I was infringing on anyone. I am not a creator or seller, and I always make my purchases through the marketplace or inworld stores. I am very confused by what all of this means - can someone please explain this to me? How do I find out who complained or where I got this content from? Shouldn't LL be going after the person/ people who gave it to me supposedly? Thank you, Red52 I got the identical email and it listed three salsa dances. I received those dances many, many years ago from a friend who was apparently unwittingly handing out content that somehow had illegally become full perm. This is the first time I've had this happen to me but having read about it on the forums I knew it was nothing I had intentionally done. I'm always glad to see IP infringement dealt with in SL - in this case, wondering why it took so long...but at least it was done. Oh and to answer your question, the email would have included - "If you weren't aware of an intellectual property issue, don't panic or take it personally!" When a DMCA or take down complaint is filed by the merchant who created a given item, all the items are removed from everyone's inventory. Edit: Typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sassy Romano Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 Czari Zenovka wrote: I'm always glad to see IP infringement dealt with in SL - in this case, wondering why it took so long...but at least it was done. Yes except when they get it wrong, you can't remember what specific dances they happened to be and might not still have the proof that you purchased these. Having had Linden Lab steal my (and others) legally purchased dances from Akeyo and even despite complaints to LL, they failed to even respond let alone give me back the content I had legally purchased, I wouldn't trust Linden Lab one bit in dealing with such DMCA actions correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela Galli Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 I had those salsa dances back in 2008, and they were really good! It never dawned on me then, as it would now -- they were stolen from someone who put a lot of work into them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red52 Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 Hi Perrie - yes, the email I received reads exactly as you stated. How do I tell if it's legitimate or not? Thank you, everyone, for all of your help with this! Red52 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red52 Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 Hi Czari - thank you for your reply and info. I have only been an SL member for just over a year, so am not sure why -if the product was made in 2008 - it wasn't all taken care of back then. My email listed 6 salsa dances that were 'infringing content,' but they were in a folder of 27. Now am wondering why the other dances in that folder weren't considered 'Infringment?' I just deleted them all - I don't want to have any part of this problem. The email I received did have the statement you mentioned. I was getting freaked out by the LL info that said 'to get a lawyer.' (Are you kidding me???) Red52 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunshine Juneberry Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 I've had legally purchased Akeyo dances removed as well, and a couple friends told me same thing. Not sure what the deal is with Akeyo but they are the only ones that have been removed other than freebies. I went to Akeyo and clicked on a redelivery consol and it remembered my purchases and resent them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sassy Romano Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 Simply, Linden Lab got it wrong, very wrong. My point was that many people would just accept it and lose the dances because they have been "told" that they have content they shouldn't have. In the case of the Akeyo issue I referred to, Artoo Magneto had a busy time following up and fixing the big mistake actioned by Linden Lab. You'd have thought Linden Lab could have reversed the database query to put the content back. You'd have thought that their Legal team might even respond to an email telling them that they were wrong. Linden Lab DOES NO WRONG! Yeah right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czari Zenovka Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 Pamela Galli wrote: I had those salsa dances back in 2008, and they were really good! It never dawned on me then, as it would now -- they were stolen from someone who put a lot of work into them. Same here; I tried looking up the designer listed on the dances (although if they were ripped the listed person may not be the designer at all) and the profile no longer shows in People Search. Now I'm wondering who *did* design those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czari Zenovka Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 Sassy Romano wrote: Simply, Linden Lab got it wrong, very wrong. My point was that many people would just accept it and lose the dances because they have been "told" that they have content they shouldn't have. Want to make sure I'm understanding this correctly because, overall, I agree with you. Are you saying the Salsa dances we had removed are by Akeyo or just that you have experienced legitimate copies of Akeyo dances being wrongfully removed by LL? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czari Zenovka Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 Red52 wrote: Hi Czari - thank you for your reply and info. I have only been an SL member for just over a year, so am not sure why -if the product was made in 2008 - it wasn't all taken care of back then. My email listed 6 salsa dances that were 'infringing content,' but they were in a folder of 27. Now am wondering why the other dances in that folder weren't considered 'Infringment?' I just deleted them all - I don't want to have any part of this problem. The email I received did have the statement you mentioned. I was getting freaked out by the LL info that said 'to get a lawyer.' (Are you kidding me???) Red52 You're welcome. Oooo, where did it say to get a lawyer? Just looked at the email again; I'm thinking it must have been in some of the linked sites but as soon as I saw what the infringed property was I just filed the letter away. I did go in world to watch the "replacement animation" turn me around in a circle. I'm also wondering how these dances are just now being reported or removed. Knowing how LL works, it's entirely possible it's just taken them this long to get around to removing them. Who knows? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrie Juran Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 Red52 wrote: How do I tell if it's legitimate or not? Well, start by looking at where the E Mail came from, "removals@lindenlab.com." Of course if you want to be extra sure you could examine the entire E Mail header but that would be outside of the scope of this thread for me to explain how that works. Seriously, I don't understand why people get all freaked out by this E Mail. It's pretty clear and to the point and so also is the information in the linked pages. I've never seen but would love to see a copy of the communication received by a person who an actual DMCA take down notice is against. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madeliefste Oh Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 You can see one here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red52 Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 Thanks Czari & Perrie for all of your help with this - sorry my response is late - RL reared its head this past week :-) Red52 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eliiana Aura Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 Some of my items were recently taken from my marketplace, claiming they were IP infringement. The items taken were handmade Princess costumes for toddlers. They were not perfect replicas of any famous copyright, they were my own similar vision. All of my textures used were handmade in Photoshop. I never used the copyrighted company name or images on either the ADs nor the backgrounds, and apart from perhaps accidentally using the company name in the search description, (which I have since remedied), I do not feel I violated anything. I never made claim to own exclusive rights, and there are many others who have since created their own take on similar costumes. Anyway, I contacted LL about the issue, wanting clarity to see what I had done wrong. Over the next couple of days, nearly all of the taken items were returned to my marketplace AND my location in-world, with the exception of four. I have not yet heard back from them regarding this issue, so as you might imagine, I am feeling a bit confused and concerned. I checked my ADs carefully to see what I might have done wrong, and other than one AD, which had 'inspired by (insert company name and character name here),' none of my costumes were in violation, to my knowledge. I have seen many, MANY people 'create' copyrghted items in SL, many of which outwardly have direct copy/pasted images right on the item. Others have re-created famous characters, buildings, etc, with no such claim filed against them, some are even very famous, well-known SL stores. I find it hard to beleive that all of these creators have rights to use these images and words on their products. So my question is: Since my items are NOT ripped models, do NOT have copyrighted images, words, or textures on them and are NOT direct replicas of anything copyrighted, why were they in violation? Moreover, why were the majority of my costumes returned to me by LL after having been pulled, with no explanation? I do not wish to be banned, but I am unsure how to proceed, since I have no idea how to contact them as there is no live support option available to me. I really appreciate any insight given, and I will continue to wait for LL to contact me, which will hopefully be soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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