Scammed? Seller won't respond! (RESOLVED - at least on my end)

[Intoxicate]

I went to a shop in-world that I'd never been to before, and upon arrival, saw that the shop policy required shoppers to buy store credit at their pay stations in order to shop there. They only sold credit in specific amounts (100, 500, 1000, 2,000, etc). So I bought store credit, The only reason I went ahead with it is that this policy stated that we could get back any lindens that we didn't spend.

This turned out to not be the case at all. Nowhere in the store does it explain how to obtain a refund for the credits not spent, nor were there any refund stations. 

I IM'd the seller and have yet to receive a response. I don't know how active this merchant is, but if they are too busy to handle their store then they shouldn't have one. 

My question is this - How do I get my Linden back? 

Another issue is: since we're only allowed to buy store credit in specific amounts, there's a high probability that there will be unspent lindens left over unless you happen to spend exactly what you deposited. 

My concern is that there are tons of people leaving unspent linden for this person to pocket, because they can't withdraw what they have left over (even though they're told that they can). 

Isn't this some kind of TOS violation??

[Paul Hexem]

Welcome to SL. Buyer beware. Consumer protection only exists in RL.

[chrismignon McDonnell]

Any transaction you made is final!

[Intoxicate]

So you're saying that LL is completely fine with merchants pocketing their customers' leftover lindens?

How is that at all TOS-compliant??

[Ren Toxx]

My question is this - How do I get my Linden back?

Hard to say. If you, who know all the details about the store and the seller and have thus checked it all, didn't find out how (supposing there is in fact a way)... we're in a far worse position to figure it out :smileywink:


Isn't this some kind of TOS violation??

Unlikely, even if the store does indeed lack the refunding method its policies implies there is; as usual, the 'Linden Labs does not involve itself in disputes between residents' line would seem to apply, and in this particular case they could argue that you weren't forced to trust this store's convoluted payment method and proceed on it, and encourage you to keep trying to contact the owner for clarification about it.

 

Which, in fact, still sounds like your best course of action. Several things you've said made me think this isn't a particularly obscure, half-a$$ed temporary store which will disappear in a few days after having amassed a few thousand L$ at the unsuspecting customers' expense, so it's quite possible that:

a) There is in fact a refunding method, just not as evident as it perhaps should be, and further investigating may give you the solution. God knows many, many things in SL seem impossibly complicated the first time we tackle them, until the 'bulb goes on' :smileywink:

b) The owner will finally see your IMs and answer them to help you, either by explaining how to get your unspent L$ back or, if it comes to that, by manually refunding you.

[Paul Hexem]

---

Intoxicate wrote:

So you're saying that LL is completely fine with merchants pocketing their customers' leftover lindens?

---

 

Yes. LL doesn't get involved in "resident to resident disputes". I could sell you an empty box with a picture on it of a supposed product, and then mute you when you complained that it was empty, and LL would be fine with that.

[Marigold Devin]

Hello, Intoxicate.

How long is it since you tried to contact the seller for a refund?  Its an unfortunate fact of SLife that not all merchants are active inworld 24/7, so I would say it isn't unreasonable to have to wait a week or two for a response. It is possible that the seller is away for a while (does it say anything on their profile to this effect - some people do add notes to their profile about or picks session when they are having time out for any reason).

I'd say give it a whole week, and if you hear nothing by then, send another (polite) notecard requesting refund. If there is a group, you could also join that and sound out other members - but please, nothing libellous or hostile.  Scammers inworld tend not to go to the bother of setting up a store when they want to rip people off.

Please keep this thread updated. I'd like to see a happy outcome.

 

[Intoxicate]

my first message was the very day I went to that shop. I joined the group and saw that they had logged in as recent as yesterday, so I'm sure they received my IM, as i sent it days ago. So I sent another one just in case the first one slipped by.  nowhere on their avi card did they mention being away or otherwise unavailable to respond to IMs. I wasn't expecting an immediate response but I would have liked to at least gotten an acknowledgment "received your IM, i will look into it and get back to you", kinda thing since they're definitely -not- away.  

I'll keep trying with the IMs... 

[Intoxicate]

wow... well that's reassuring lol

[Intoxicate]

I searched every pixel of the store before i left and found nothing pertaining to refunds or withdrawals. 

I do hope that I hear back from them though. 

[Intoxicate]

Tons of stores in-world have store credit options. It's hardly unheard of. 

One of the advantages of having store credit option is so that the most frequent customers can just deposit a bulk amount of lindens for future visits, which can come in handy when you're low on lindens (you can just go there and spend down your balance). 

[Alicia Sautereau]

and when in the tons of store you simply right click and choose pay, you get the l$ popup instead of the dialog for the credit/gift/basket option

[Ren Toxx]

Two considerations:

- Have you tried notecards instead of IMs? Some store owners explicitly state preferring it that way, for various and perfectly licit reasons; and, since more than one customer will likely ignore that and send IMs anyway, I can imagine some owners making it a point to, in turn, ignore customer IMs until a notecard is sent instead.

- Any of the products you did purchase, had a notecard in it that may give additional info on this paying method? Or an URL to a website/blog where these questions might be answered?

 

 One of the advantages of having store credit option is so that the most frequent customers can just deposit a bulk amount of lindens for future visits, which can come in handy when you're low on lindens (you can just go there and spend down your balance).

Store gift cards, yes, for gifting non-transferrable items without having to resort to Marketplace, but even those can result in unspent L$ being “lost”. But store credit? I've only recently seen one in my over four years in SL... and it's fortunate they also have a conventional, direct payment method, or I wouldn't otherwise touch their products with a ten feet pole. I don't believe I'd have any store owner managing my L$ until I'm ready to spend them.

[Dresden Ceriano]

---

Intoxicate wrote:

Tons of stores in-world have store credit options. It's hardly unheard of. 

 

 

---

True, but not the only option... there's a big difference.  Honestly, if I ever ran across a store that did what you describe, there's no way in hell I'd shop there.

I hope you are able to get your issue resolved, but either way... let this be a lesson to you not to get into a ridiculous arrangement like that again.

...Dres

[Fabiano Dover]

just a little question in between.... about how many L$ are we talking here?

[Amethyst Jetaime]

I've seen stores selling store credit as a way of discounting merchandise.  For instance you buy credit of 1000L for 750L. But if you don't buy 1000L worth of things you don't get any money back  The card just remains usable until you use the entire balance.

Other than this kind of thing and a gift cards, there is no reason you should have to buy store credit to shop.  If it had been me, I would have found another place to shop, as I am sure that most people would.  How could anyone stay in business if they are driving customers away with their payment system?  I feel like some piece of the this puzzle is missing here.

[Dilbert Dilweg]

I dont think the fact that there are many stores that handle store credit is the issue. His or her isssue is that the sign and instructions say they can easily get refunded the extra money they didnt spend. The seller does not make it easy to do so.Or there is just no way to do so. Thats bad business and fraud. Trick a resident in paying and make them fight for the rest of their Sl time to get refunded the money they did not spend. Thats effed up

Some vendors will also claim that their IM's are capped and didn't see your message. Back up the messages with a notecard so you can be sure you have exausted all possibilities. There is a section in abuse reports to report fraud

 

[Couldbe Yue]

If the seller won't respond (and I suspect they won't as you won't have been the first that has asked them about this) then I'd say your best bet is to go back into the group and see if you can sell the card to someone in the group (the card should be transferable).  You might have to knock a few lindens off what is left to get rid of it but hopefully there's someone there who doesn't want to buy a full one.

and then chalk it up as a lesson learnt.  I have a lot of these types of cards sitting around in my inventory and now steer very clear of them as unless you always buy from that seller and you can top them up, you'll always end up with lindens on a card that can't be used.

 

 

[Summer Tison]

You could also ask in group chat if anyone knows how you exchange the remaining balance on your card for L$, maybe some of the other group members can tell you how it's done.

[Phil Deakins]

I'm thinking the same as you, Dilbert. If everything is as the OP described it, and there is no system for refunding the balance, and if the store owner won't do anything about it, then it's fraud, and that's definitely against the ToS. It isn't just a user-to-user dispute.

[Sassy Romano]

---

Phil Deakins wrote:

I'm thinking the same as you, Dilbert. If everything is as the OP described it, and there is no system for refunding the balance, and if the store owner won't do anything about it, then it's fraud, and that's definitely against the ToS. It isn't just a user-to-user dispute.

---

Regardless, LL are only interested in fraud when it's something that affects them, such as credit card fraud.

"Someone has my L$" really doesn't excite them, see collapse of Apez vending system, which had a lot of L$ of its customer base in an escrow account.  That collapsed and no matter how many times the operator of that was AR'd for fraud, nothing happened.

 

[Phil Deakins]

I'm not suggesting that LL will actually do anything. All our experiences of them clearly show that they won't do anything. But, if it is as the OP described, it's fraud, and not merely a resident-to-resident dispute.

[Sassy Romano]

In that I don't disagree with you, if it's precisely as the scenario stated.

[Czari Zenovka]

---

Drake1 Nightfire wrote:

The coin of the realm is Linden Dollars... Why would you buy "credit" to shop somewhere? That like, buying Facebook bucks to spend them on Farmville bucks to buy crops....

---

That was my first thought.  Not that I've been in every shop in SL, but I would never buy store "credit."  Have any other merchants seen this method used?

ETA: I've seen the gift cards or discount card paying methods as well; I'm talking about if this is the ONLY way to purchase merchandise here.  I agree that I feel like a piece of this puzzle is missing which is why I'd like to go to check out the store.

[Czari Zenovka]

---

Intoxicate wrote:

Tons of stores in-world have store credit options. It's hardly unheard of. 

 

One of the advantages of having store credit option is so that the most frequent customers can just deposit a bulk amount of lindens for future visits, which can come in handy when you're low on lindens (you can just go there and spend down your balance). 

---

If you wish to send either an inworld IM or forum PM to me, I am seriously interested in checking out these stores.  As a merchant and long-time SL resident, I'd like to go to one or more of those stores.  It's *possible* - not saying you didn't already check high and low, but perhaps a different set of eyes might spy something re: refunds, etc.