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GTA5 is just a game. A fun game, sure (and pretty!), but not a persistant, user-created virtual world.

There's no avatar customisation (clothes yes, shape no), only a limited range of activity, and all body movements are timed/scripted - although they're mocapped (like SL) and facially posed (unlike SL), they're not dynamic. There are no female playable characters (leaving out a lot of potential content, sadface). The UI isn't changeable, millions of differences that make it less flexible than SL.

Multiplayer looks fun, but it'll be limited to 64 or 100 players per world/map. Maps can't be edited, they'll all look the same, new items can't be created. There's no significant adult content, no roleplay, and none of the diversity that SL is known for.

The GTA playerbase has always been pretty good at modding things, but there's no equivilence for SL.


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Nice for sure, but it still fails like other RL simulation games with the human face/skin.  Already games manufacturers are working on Separable SubSurface Scattering (SSS/SSSS), which will really up the wow factor.  Here's a short demo clip and it's best viewed in HD.  Of course this feature will not only enhance the realism of skin, but many other textures too.

I did have an even more awesome clip of a short story line of an android being born as a teaser clip for some game that was on Vimeo.  I can't find that, but I posted the link to Celestial Nightfire at the time so maybe if she's reading this she can put it up if she has it.

As has been pointed out though SL will always be a challenge graphically because of the user content.  Sure SL could implement a lot of high end GFX features, but only a few people would have the skill to incorporate them in their creatiions and only a few would have rigs that could run/appreciate them once built.




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Kind of funny, really. SL lives from amateur user generated content. Yet people want professionally-designed looks, which often require extremely expensive hardware and software to generate, and top notch hardware to render.

Mesh and material support already make it possible to create completely stunning environments. Look the top mesh creators in SL - houses, avatars and so on have evolved tremendously. Yet people complain because it requires better-than-average hardware and to create such content requires a lot of skill and a lot of time.

I'm just very amused about the obvious disconnect there: LL repeatedly gets demand to run SL on the crappiest hardware (a.k.a. smartphones and tablets) yet look like tech demos that wouldn't even run on anything but extremely high-end PCs. And whenever LL adds tools to make SL look better (sculpties, mesh, materials and even windlight back-when) a lot of users scream bloody murder and want heads to roll.

Edit: Not trying to knock anyone, just amused by diverging views in different threads

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Download Nirans Viewer or the Black Dragon Beta viewer. Set to Ultra, turn some things up, some down. Don't go to crappy sims, don't hang out with avatars in system clothes and flexi hair, stay off mainland. And there you go. Pretty SL, better than that video. Just without any good sort of game mechanics.

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"Overall, Grand Theft Auto IV took over 1000 people and more than three and a half years to complete, with a total cost estimated at approximately $100 million"

 Probably GTA V has costed around the same resources , maybe more 


So , as you are working alone in SL , it will take you 1000 * 3.5 years = 3500 years to get your sim like GTA V .

And of course , only if you are connected online ( or build on maya/blender etc.. ) with 40 hours per week .

If you work only the week end , for instance , with 4 hours , it will take you 35 000 years to finish your dream.

And you will need to fill your tip jars with 100 millions $ = 12 500 millions l$

Good luck !

Don t loose hope ! We trust in you !

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  • 2 months later...

Now This should be a wake up call for LL to seriously take the threat of this amazing depth of a game, and be very worried, cos I would, If I was The Lindens Shoes.

First of all, lets forget the crime part, and look at the technology here, whch I must admit, not having scratched a tenth of whats on offer. What I have experienced having used it, is I will, especially after multiplayer mode gets realeased on the 1st October I believe, use GTA5 for my second life.

Ok I can here you all saying, BUT, BUT,


Heres Why:

I happened to chance on my running a race to the Pacific side of the beach, with said Missus I think, Im playing Michael, no suprise really , given my name.  I spotted a gorgeous , about 60foot long Sloop, Large sailing yacht in  the water, but no sails.  I swam the short distance, and got on, and started steering the craft, and adding some throttle, As I ventured Further into the pacific, I was confronted, with,  For me, Was The most incredible sight and motion of Real waves, with a Swell of about , maybe 12-15 feet. If I sailed directly into the oncoming waves, The craft lifts up with the swell, and slaps down again, with spray, before it gets tossed from side to side, Having turned to port, I was riding the waves, so I didnt need to use any power, But still the waves swell was incredible. I sailed for 1 hour straight, having to go through a couple of channels with rock, nad these boats, dont turn on a sixpence, you have to allow for the stern, to turn, so you have to be very careful to sail slowly while you turn.

On leaving the Craft, it got dark, and it started to rain, Once I came out of the water, my clothes werent dry, like in SL, they were soaking wet. I ran up the beach, thinking, i wil run across this freeway that runs alongside the beach, that was stupid, A woman in a sort of Cougar, Sent me flying, I had some life left, thankfully I managed to get to other side, I found a Deserted farm, where a Volvo Type estate car was parked. I borrowed that to get back into town, but town was a long way away.

I drove through the gorges, mountain Freeways of America, for over 1 hour 45 minutes, stopping at a gunsmith, to get a new Jacket.  To be able to drive that amount of time, with passing freght trains, passing over on huge tressle bridges, was simply unbievable. I had to brake haard several times to avoid mowing down Deer and other wildlife, Im not that type :D.  Eventually using the small GPS, I found my home twenty, and listened to one of the many radio stations, available in car. I was in heavan as they Played " Think we got ourselves a Convoy, Rubber duck", as I used to own a  store selling CB radio equipment in real life bck in the Eighties.


I havent even been to the Airport yet, so I have no idea how aircraft are going to fly as yet. 

What I do Know, Is that people say its not a Creator type world.  Buts all about to change when it goes online, because, There is going to be  limited amount of user items, that you can build your own challenge map, or play other peoples creations.


lastly, the Mobile phone allows you to access its own Internet Site, with news of the day, and adverts, from Boat yards selling boats, showrooms selling cars, fashion houses, it has a Bleep page, renamed after Twitter, and another site, which is a take of off facebook.


The point is, All this, and hundreds of miles of roads, traffic, marine life, the Army, jets, real sea that swells, Lights from cities that shimmer on the water, Real weather, clouds, teeming rain, with no lag at all, is all contained ON ONE little Disc on a Console, that costs peanuts, to the so called Server mainframes of Linden labs.  The power contained in this ONE disc, is just incredible, and as yet, havent even booked a flight from the cities Main Airport yet.  At the moment you cant Buy land, but You can buy your own property from the real estate market place via the phone or even on the physical map that comes with the game.  There is, a certain amount of trading on stock markets, which I have yet to look into.

This is early days for GTA5, and much more content is promised, in the near future. You dont have to earn money from crime, which is of course the whole point of GTA, but GTA5 allows you to take up normal employment too, Buy a store in  the future, and get $ from sales. Your store or home you may buy, doesnt cost you anything, only the actual building.


Yes, There is a lack of decent  females, But thats only temporary, as When Multiplayer comes online, then there will probably be many more to chat and interact with, and they will be real people, just as in here. Well I just  Bumped my car, and tried to sound my horn, somewhere along the traffic jam, I accidently pressed, the arm Wheel and, of course 3-4 shots got fired, the cop cars, I could here coming, didnt get a chance to escape, as blocked in by traffic. I got wasted by the cops, woke up a few mins later, walking out of the local hospital patched up, and 350$ taken out of my account for medical treatment:D


Im not saying, GTA5 is Second Life, Im saying, This is what Second life SHOULD AND CAN  be like, seamless, glorious scenes and attention to details, even the pot holes in every road makes the car shake and rumble, and when you come out of the water, you are soaked and dripping, I also played a 3 set match for an hour with Michaels wife, that was great fun too. I havent even found the Underground Tube Stations yet,  Theres is so much to explore, but either with your partners in crime or on your own, doing your own thing, There is no constraints to what you cant do, at any time of day.

My main comment about About the real Swell, and 15 feet waves, is why I write this, Second life has No motion at all in its oceans, Here, you are navigating real ocean swells and if you fall off, you can drown, you can be caught by sharks too. But I love Marine environments in SL, But havent had time to visit the coral reefs of GTA5 yet.

I do Hope LL takes a huge notice of this incedible step forward by Rockstar, (actually part made in Scotland), because If This company can put an almost Virtual World ,Just on a Disc, then, The old fashioned Server side Grid system we still use for many years now here with little success, especially with vehicles will soon be obsolete.


LL Take a good look at GTA5 and return, you will have to admit your land,  the tiny pitifull Roads, owned BY LL engineering, your linear Oceans look pretty awful, What can you do to compete with this,? before droves of us join the multiplayer jet set, and enjoy driving Through miles of Vinewood Mountain scenery, making content soon, or buying from the new store soon to open.  Yes this is adult orientated world, but not as graphic as the adult content with poseball pixel sex we have here.

Please feel free, anybody to pass any comments, good or critical.





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Brad Mactavish wrote:

I would love to see Second Life come to the point where it could have stunning graphics, but I doubt it will ever happen. I've looked around for "games" (Second Life isn't a game), userbased/avatar chat worlds similar to second life and nothing beats it.

Graphically, SL has always been playing catch-up to the optimised, fixed-content worlds of 3D gaming. It probably always will be. SL *does* have stunning graphics. They aren't as stunning as recently released games for a host of reasons, in the same way that game graphics are behind cutting edge movie and demo effects.

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Michaelatv Destiny wrote:

...Im not saying, GTA5 is Second Life, Im saying, This is what Second life SHOULD AND CAN  be like, seamless, glorious scenes and attention to details

I do Hope LL takes a huge notice of this incedible step forward by Rockstar,

LL Take a good look at GTA5

*sigh* Here we go again.  Someone who has completely failed to understand SL or why it is (more or less) the way it is.  I just can't be bothered to go into all the "LL doesn't make the world, residents do" stuff yet again.  When you and the other droves of users migrate to this other virtual world where you can do everything and it all looks pretty I hope you have a very nice time.  Many people have tried to displace SL, either deliberately or tangentially.  For we residents that's good - more competition means more options for us - but it's not going to cause a complete re-write of SL.

Incidentally, there is no 'incredible step forward' in GTA V.  Bethesda has been doing 'whole worlds' with the Elder Scrolls series for quite a few years,  GTA V might do it better but with the start, team and budget it had it should do!

If you REALLY want a VR like GTA V you'll probably have to pick your game engine (or start from scratch) and get coding.


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Michaelatv Destiny wrote:

What I do Know, Is that people say its not a Creator type world.  Buts all about to change when it goes online, because, There is going to be  limited amount of user items, that you can build your own challenge map, or play other peoples creations.


Creating custom maps for a game is hardly new or cutting edge, and I most certainly bet it will be with objects supplied completely by the game, no real user creation. 

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Oh! I do know what you are trying to get through, But as a veteran since 2007, because My Main career or choice of what I do in Second life, changed in 2009 to Try to make Airports viable, flying many types of Aircaft from Civil Airliners to Hovercrafts, plus sensible crossings with a Cigar (expensive Cruiser) which fails 80% of the time, I believe the £2600 I have paid out for 40,000 items and land fees, premium memberships,since 2007 have been wasted to a good degree, after the land fee hike killed most of the clubs, of which I was Owner of one (and land),  and Manager of a German Shemale Club, which way back in 2009, was still actually, not only breaking even, but making a profit.

  As a pensioner now, I dont, and never had the training, or the funds to buy and make 3D Civil airliners, or indeed, any 3D models, the complicated legal  stuff to use  mesh models, and how to learn what  extension to use to upload it is beyond me.  My friends who do upload mesh models, are relunctant to discuss or help me at all with how to do this, which is rather sad really, as Im sure they think Im going to be a threat to there own builds If i did. This is what I really want to do in SL, since 2010 But its no longer viable for me.

All my 4 years in combat groups , With NORsim, Kingdom of legends, Judgement, and Kingdom of sands, All had sims with 80%  lag, or even more which in 2013, should not be an issue in almost any game or World.  Urban combat sims, of which there were many, have declined at an alarming rate, when the teen grid was merged, the owners of new sims, found, that it was almost impossible to keep order and players respect the rules in place, hence many threw in the towel after only a few weeks after.

I came into SL a bit to late for me, as you get older, you tend to get weary quickly of software or games that dont do what they supposed to do.


But Im not abandoning SL, Just want to give GTA5 a chance, especially Online, where I see, that  Girls/ ladies will be able to make charactors, and everybody will be able to do a limited amount of facial Creation.  GTA5 is a world, where you can live a reasonbley quite life, and avoid the crime if you wish and make money from legit bussines ventures, when you do earn enough income, then you can aquire ships, Planes &  nice cars and scuba gear, just like second life, But in a seamless environement, which is the closest anyones come so far, into making so much material available, just from a disc.   ATMs in world is a welcome sight, and just like Kingdom of sands in SL, people will have to deposit there main assets into one of the many banks , because pickpockets will be around in Online GTA5, just like there are in Kingdom of Sands.


Content creation is coming to GTA5, its very early days, But I rather at the momment Ride real ocean waves, and go into Real estate, and make a name for myself in that field, without the insane fees LL charges for a small grid, which you are contained in. Players want freedom, and I believe this Virtual world, could be the beginning of the start of new seamless worlds, without contraints of loading scripts from grid to grid, just to sail a ship through 10 sims.

Really, all LL has to do, is take away the grids altogether, abolish outdated, none affordable land purchases, and land fees, and Just let people buy/ build properties, and make there own life, And put every grid together on one huge seamless world. Thats a sweeping statement has is fraught with a lot of issues that have to be addressed, but if Second Life really doesnt think GTA5 is going to have a big impact on what players will now expect from MR Linden, then they are living in in a Closet. No ban lines, Just security orbs aloud with the 20 second warning , as set down By LL as being none harrasment.


Your going to say, wheres the profit in that for LL?? Simple, make Second Life members Subbed, which will pay LL way, but do away with premuim membership, as that is and has been, totally a cash cow, that in the real sense, doesnt give value for its use.This will also get rid of many harrasers, and greifers, Only mostly genuine people will pay a monthly sub, and with a bank  or paypal account needed to subscibe to the game, they are much more easly traceable and can be banned with much less paperwork than now.


I do realize, that Second Life is a user creator world, LL provides the expensive outdated grid land system, at a cost of real life rents to players already stuggling to make ends meet, and expects there residents to all the work for them.


Sorry, But those times are over Peter, people power and what Rockstar will provide to build tools or import user content in the months to come will be critical to everybody, who loves Second Life, but is exsaperated by its daily failings to provide any sort of stabilty to allow players, to land/ fly planes, sail or drive cars, at a success rate of which is acceptable.

When you say pretty, thats a bit of an understatement and obviously you havent taken a sloop out into the pacific ocean yet, and navigated real waves trying to find the sunken box near a crashed plane with a booty of 12,000$ in it.

In talking about it being pretty, I dont think you read my comment above, The technology and common sense by its developers has lead to realistic, Normal real life happenings, which LL dont think is important, Little things, like soaked clothes after swimming, or coming out of a pool, A rottweiler dog, that learns from its owner, it also comes when you whistle to it, and will jump in the car/ van with you if you so wish, rain that makes spots on the surface, Fog, that makes you feel chilly, expecially near the sea and docks all add to the feel of a Virtual world that has been lovingly put together over a number of years. Im a complete newcomer to GTA, so, If I didnt like it, then I wouldnt play it.

Im there at the start, and I much rather put some capital , if I have to, into  a developer who has, taken the gaming world by the scruff of its neck, and, says, we can give players an awesome world to live in, at a reasonable cost, and with no Minimum specs and problems with older computers, graphic cards and outdated use of 10 second sound files and a  just as ancient use of MP4 Quick time, instead of DIVX , which is an industry standard, on many media platforms.


If GTA5 does come to PC, which 450,000 people have signed up to ask the company to consider releasing it soon, then minimum specs will apply, and it will be interesting to see, if it ever comes to fruitation, the perfomance of its established rivals , like EA games, Second Life, and the other many good PC online games, of which I play 3 of already.


No need to Sigh Peter, :D dont forget i was here, 2 years before you ever born into found Second Life, I do have a good knowledge of how second life works, i know inventory servers go down, they have many thousands of objetcs being used, deleted , or new ones used, modified, at any one time, I know the huge pressure on SL, but, LL is not just running the program on  the bottom of the ocean, much as it has done for the last 7 years.


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@ kenbro


Hi, As I understand it, in later releases or patches, you will be allowed user made content to be uploaded to a data base, either for free use, as in Trainz Downloadd station, of which there is more than a thousand made items, that other rail modellers can use for there own layouts, or something simular on those lines.


Its to early to say yet, This game has only been out a few days really.  i just think the avenues it could explore if it went PC eventually would be worth keeping an eye on

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A good answer and reasonably well considered.  However, things like:

Michaelatv Destiny wrote:

...what I do in Second life, ... Try to make Airports viable, flying many types of Aircaft from Civil Airliners to Hovercrafts, plus sensible crossings ... after the land fee hike killed most of the clubs, of which I was Owner of one (and land),  and Manager of a German Shemale Club...


Just show you are trying to use SL for things it was never designed for and then complaining that it doesn't do them.  Wet clothes and a dog that responds when you whistle?  Not LL's issue.  Getting rid of the 256x256m grids?  Absolutely - but would require a fundamental re-write of SL, which is (yes) what it needs but (no) isn't 'simple' or at all likely to happen.

Different subject (sort of):

Michaelatv Destiny wrote:

...As a pensioner now, I dont, and never had the training, or the funds to buy and make 3D Civil airliners, or indeed, any 3D models, the complicated legal  stuff to use  mesh models, and how to learn what  extension to use to upload it is beyond me.  My friends who do upload mesh models, are relunctant to discuss or help me at all with how to do this, which is rather sad really, as Im sure they think Im going to be a threat to there own builds If i did. This is what I really want to do in SL, since 2010 But its no longer viable for me.

No funds are required to use the built-in 3D tools (aka prims).  THAT is what SL was designed for!  Training is easily available, at no cost, from NCI, Caledon Oxbridge, Builders' Brewery or any number of other in-world helper organisations.  There is also support and assistance here in the creation forums and across the internet on other sites.  There is no cost, either, in using Blender (amongst others) for mesh - training there is a bit of a problem but mostly relates to the need to be able to share a screen in order to see what you see and do and point out various on-screen features of the tool (I have no easy solution for you there).  Sculpties, as a poor-man's mesh, have similar issues but if you can afford to rent so much land in SL you could easily buy - and learn to use - Sculpt Studio and 
Mesh Studio, amongst other in-world modelling tools that go further than basic prims.

Fundamental problems with SL that you mention:

Land fees, grid system, lack of real weather?  I agree, but that IS what SL is.  Potholes in roads, clothes and dogs are all just things that people here may, or may not, make.  The technical issues involved in changing the grid system are pretty huge but the cultural problems of LL providing the content are probably bigger - weather systems were discussed years ago but most people just shut themselves in their home parcels and went all 'dreem' (Dead Right Everyone Except Me) on it.

That leaves land fees.  There I agree with you and it's something LL could easily change if they wished.  They don't appear to wish to though, so I take it their model is working for them.  We just have to live with it, or not, they've been told many, many times.

[Don't let the forum join date fool you, I have been in SL at least as long as you and I also have 30-odd years experience in software development.  That's why I say the things I do about the SL platform and the, not amazing, GTA V.  I do retract 'pretty' though, GTA deserves better than that disparaging remark.  My point remains - SL is what it is and the HUGE changes you want are not likely to happen in the forseeable future, however much they would improve the world.]


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Hello Peter, thanks so much for your polite and topical Answer.

First off, GTA5 is not without its bad points, one, being, every time you try and enter the las Santos Airport, to have a wander, or look at the planes, a SWAT team and Copter arrive and murder you for no reason what so ever, which has lead me to write a Ticket to Rockstar on  the over use of Police control with sensible outcomes.

Dont bide well, if you eventualy save enough money to splash out 240K on a twin turbo prop Aircraft, if your going to be attacked every time you want to take it out to fly it?

Issues to do with vehicles:

In SL , Linden Labs knows only to well, judging by cost ,(I believe) in uploading Mesh 3D objects, that Aircraft in particular, and flying, is at an all time high, Ok in 2007, Second Life wasnt able , or creators werent able to make and build, import, sell Boeing 373 Airliners, to fly from one place to another,  but, LL has not embraced the new technology and made any major effort to make vehicle crossings seamless or manage to accomodate 3-4 passengers, which is 99% certain to fail. Its up to LL to move with the times and technology, or be the dinosuar it is and die off.

As far as expectations of realistic waves and wet clothes after comimg out of the water, Then I stand by what I say, I mean, how can one go for a swim in your home pool and get out Bone dry, it may be a little thing, But GTA5 has implemented many small real instances, that make SL, still look like a board game.

Look at one ocean in Blakes Seas in  close up, Its just a board with textures, Your ship, yacht doesnt yaw, roll, slap down, on the inbuilt none waves, just as they dont on off world market place waves. Sailing the GTA5 pacific ocean in a schooner type boat, with the rain coming down and waves, that threaten to turn you over, is still my favourite pastime in it so far.


Had two Sharks follow me closely, there fins, not only breaking the surface, but leaving small trails of ripples behind, as they moved around my craft. Scary!!

I realize, that a whole rewrite of the way Second life works would be absolutely needed.  But does LL really care enough to invest that sort of money Rockstar invested?     LL should do, The amount of profit they make alone from land fees and sales on  each year should be ploughed into making a SL akin to the open source seamless world of GTA5, (people are calling it, like an open source world,) and when it goes online, Im told its going to be like a massive MMMORG, of the likes not seen before.


On the matter of builds, Im a vehicle mechanic, (retired) not bought up on electronic and complicated Modelling 3D which, I absolutely no idea, how to even start. Sculpties, I never had understood, i keep well away from them. I can make buildings, and have good texturing skills, i can make a Pandora Forest sim, or A snowy  "Vice Enabled "Where Eagles Dare RP sim".  But at 63, trying to understand modern 3D progams, which I never even heard of until about 2009, I knows my limitations, and for me, buiding Airliners, fitting scripts and adding complicated Liveries, is now for the generation of younger people who have already learnt some of this at college, or University, even before entering SL.

Blender, I have looked at, but way to complicated for me to understand, ACD3 I also looked at, again, without some tution, which none of my builder friends in SL will help me with, Im looking at a Jigsaw, that I dont have an atom of understanding how or where to put together. One or two friends even have CAD type programs, One lady builder I asked, how much was that program? £500 was the answer. Jaw dropping prices, way out of my pocket an technical understanding.

In closing, the fundamental issues of SL, which stops me opening another nice Club or Building another Airport is land fees, and the loss of items for no reason, greifing which by now should have been sorted years ago with special inbuilt software to stop it. The ban lines, which LL are still relunctant to ban, over much better ORB privacy, plus the unstable grid system that crashes about 5 times a day.  If my PS3 GTA5 dont crash, nor should "FireStorm", because players expect software and hardware provided by Companies to actually work.


If Second Life was costed, like it should , as a game, and not for the well off only to buy and own land, then, maybe I would return, But I can't afford , or want to risk even more money on just breaking even, or paying my land fees, when realisticly , There is very little chance of that happening.


You may remember the slogan that got me into SL in 2007

"Come to The world of Second life, and make real Money for a second Income", or even your main income, work for yourself, or get a job  from one of the many job agencys that abound".

Only a fraction of proffecional people already skilled in this art, really make any money from SL, along with rich jap or chinese Super Land owners, renting out 150 sims or more.

Lastly, you said, SL was never designed to do the sort of activities I have tried to maintain since 2009, but its my freedom of choice to Fly and sail, if LL felt flying and sailing wasnt an activity that was compatable with the hardware/ software, then why do they still allow it as a normal part of activity on the Grid?

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