Deploys for the week of 2013-07-08

[Qie Niangao]

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Jean Horten wrote:

Seems I have to say good bye to SL soon due to 'progress' that my modern and rather powerful  hardware  cannot handle.

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Okay.

But it's odd that you're having such dramatic problems when others aren't. It seems unlikely that your machine is just too powerful to run SL as well as everybody else does with much lesser hardware, and it's even stranger that you're only seeing this in SSA-enabled regions.

From the bandwidth jumps you reported elsewhere, it certainly does sound like a network problem. The SL bandwidth throttles have never been all that effective, and we'd need to dream up some reason for these jumps exclusively on SSA-enabled regions, but if it were me, I'd try reining-in the max bandwidth setting to 1mbps or less (if it isn't already) and see if it helps.

I admit that I'm always deeply suspicious of 64-bit Linux installations, and so I'm inclined to look for trouble somewhere in the network stack specific to that OS configuration... but it would also have to be specific to SSA, somehow, and that gets us back to the same bizarre place we started: What's so special about SSA that could even trigger these effects?

[KarenMichelle Lane]

Jean,

Do us a favor please, just using the Help / About SecondLife menu drop=down option, go region hopping and report back your Lost Packet % at the bottom of the report. Your situation sounds like your ISP/Router combination is not only losing but also dropping a LOT of packets. Also, are you connected Directly to the router or are you using a wireless connection?

If you have a high-end programmable router, then you have the ability to do QoS and need to get that turned on and have your PC IP address assigned to the top of that performance stack for all http traffic.

If you are seeing the same poor performance utilizing 2 different high-speed Internet sources then something on the http data path is messed up. From your Router to your cable to your PC's NIC to your OS's I/P Stack.

[KarenMichelle Lane]

To answer Qie's query " What's so special about SSA that could even trigger these effects?"

I believe that the SSA Server/Viewer implementation reduces the amount of information needed for communicating Avatar rendering significantly. The old 2-way communication model needed to render on the Client PC [The source for bake fails for eons] the avatar look is replaced by Data Center Baking model for the Avatar look. Once this is done, that information is sent to the Avatar's Host PC and to those in viewable range of the avatar rezzed in-world.

What this implies is that lost http packets may cause more stress for the Client PC's SL session as there are less opportunities for duplicate rendering data/instructions to be sent to cover the gaps. All I'm saying is that with today's every more reliable Internet Infrastructure and hardware, lost packet %s should be nominally ZERO. But that said, the new instant grey avatar place holder would usually remain grey for the lost [lack of] information. This is how is seems to work on the SSA enabled regions I have been visiting using the Classic SL Viewer on my Windows PCs [i'm testing on various PCs utilizing Vista Ultima 64bit, Windows 7 Professional 64bit and Windows 8 Professional 64bit]. At my home office and  work locations, I have a measured packet loss % of effectively zero from my service providers which range from classic High-speed internet, Ganged T1's & FIOS.

Now why this translated to that order of magnitude drop in FPS  for the 64bit Unix Distro I have no idea. The Linden Research Architect people will need to look into that one. [A Known Axiom of SL - SL misbehaves badly when packets are lost!!!!!]

[Kwakkelde Kwak]

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Qie Niangao wrote:

I admit that I'm always deeply suspicious of 64-bit Linux installations, and so I'm inclined to look for trouble somewhere in the network stack specific to that OS configuration...

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I'm sure you have your  reasons for that, all I can say is I don't have issues on my old computer running SL 3.6.1 under linux 64 bit. (Ubuntu based Linux Mint 13)

[BlackMagi Darkwatch]

Hi Maestro

Firstly, not sure if a bug or something else altogether.  I'm currently wearing system pants with a great jeans texture and to me the pants look great, nice cuff around the ankles to make the shape and it looks like trousers - BUT - when I login with another account (at the same time) it looks as if I am wearing tights (pantyhose for those in US but with the same great jeans texture).  The shape doesn't appear to update to the other accounts I'm using.

My experience of SSA / SSB has been brilliant - it no longer looks as if I am riding a tricycle if I am using a smaller shape but I do note that logging into the region takes slightly longer - I have a HUD that sleeps for 6 seconds before telling me about all the great things I programmed!  It never took that long before

 

Thanks Black

 

You are at 292,585.0, 278,294.0, 3,336.2 in Riback located at sim2550.agni.lindenlab.com (216.82.1.224:12035)
Second Life RC LeTigre 13.07.03.278295
Error fetching server release notes URL.

[WolfBaginski Bearsfoot]

I've seen the same problem with pants, and it's not a new symptom. But it might not be the same root cause this time as it was last time.

[BlackMagi Darkwatch]

I thought with SSB / SSA this issue would be resolved. I am attaching a couple of images here so people can see what I'm talking about. These jeans are in our inventory (Boy Next Door).  I am using viewers that are SSB / SSA compliant and am also on a region that supports it (Le Tigre)

Thanks

Black

 

ETA: Just tried the same thing on Second Life Server and the shape shows correctly ie with a cuff.

[Ayesha Askham]

Maestro

It is now clear that there is a significant BUG on LeTigre:  whether from the activation of SSA or from the new code is not known to most of us.

It is also clear that this bug, involving upload of assets, is server-side and not down to a user connection, since a server error is logged.

The fact that the code was running, apparently without issues, on the servers last week rather suggests that it is SSA-related.

My question is this:

If this is an "unexpected" failure, why was this potential issue not fully tested on Agni servers prior to the SSA roll-out?  On the whole SSA seems to be working well, but if it turns out to be borking the servers, you have a problem.

ETA: no point in posting the BUG Numbers since no-one else can access them.:smileyfrustrated:

[Trixie Wyx]

I was seeing some asset upload errors this weekend too, but for me they were only happening on sims without SSB. So from here it looks like the same old problem that comes up once in a while.

[Darien Caldwell]

Ayesha, I live on a LeTigre sim, so any issues LeTire may have, would be very apparent to me.

I upload textures daily. No issues.

I upload mesh daily. No issues.

I don't see any issues with uploading assets at all.

The only thing iI *do* know of is the old Landmark in a notecard bug is back on LeTigre. If you drop a Landmark, or other item into a notecard and try to save it, it will fail. LL already knows, and I assme is working on that.

And if by some chance you mean these "Unable to upload Asset Errors":

 

 

That just means you're on a Viewer that Doesn't Support Server Side Baking! The old style appearance is disabled, so any attempt by the viewer to upload locally baked textures fails. That is normal and correct behavior.

 

Upgrade your viewer!

 

Ayesha Askham wrote:

Maestro

It is now clear that there is a significant BUG on LeTigre:  whether from the activation of SSA or from the new code is not known to most of us.

It is also clear that this bug, involving upload of assets, is server-side and not down to a user connection, since a server error is logged.

The fact that the code was running, apparently without issues, on the servers last week rather suggests that it is SSA-related.

My question is this:

If this is an "unexpected" failure, why was this potential issue not fully tested on Agni servers prior to the SSA roll-out?  On the whole SSA seems to be working well, but if it turns out to be borking the servers, you have a problem.

ETA: no point in posting the BUG Numbers since no-one else can access them.:smileyfrustrated:

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[Ayesha Askham]

Darien

I am surprised at you. 

Firstly my viewer IS SSA enabled- Firestorm 4.4.2.

Secondly this asset (as I ought to have pointed out, from inventory) upload issue is indeed the "old" bug, it would seem that SSA has caused a reversion. 

Thirdly, I live on a region that was until recently also LeTigre, and visit two other sims that are on LeTigre on a regular basis, so I know well that for me texture updates are working well on SSA enabled regions.

The BUG was triaged by The Lab, as you surmise, and with luck a fix will be on LeTigre on Wednesday.

I was imprecise in my post - if I'd been a politician I would have said I mis-spoke.  I didn't, I was not clear.  My bad, as you say in the colonies. :smileywink:

[Maestro Linden]

Hi Ayesha, we were able to confirm bug reports on Thursday, that saving notecards with attachments was broken.  You'll be happy to know that this week's update fixes that bug:

https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_RC_LeTigre/13#13.07.15.278606

[Darien Caldwell]

If you read my post, you will see I mentioned the notecard thing. Nothing to be surprised at me about. I always cover every base.

 

And yay for the coming fix.

[Maestro Linden]

Hi Black, is this your exact issue? :

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Not 100% solid repro here, but here is one example.

1. Log 2 users into current sunshine internal viewer to sunshine region on Uma
2. Have User A edit their outfit and add extreme bagginess and flare to their pants
3. Save the pants and outfit
4. Have User A edit the outfit again and use the gear menu Add New Clothes > Underwear to add new underwear, save and exit appearance editor
5. Confirm that both User A and User B both see the morph mask changes (pants appear baggy)
6. Log out User A
7. Log User A back in
8. Observe that User B now does not see the morph mask correctly (pants appear tight)

Expected Behavior

1. Morph mask changes should be visible to yourself and other consistently between logins.

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[BlackMagi Darkwatch]

Hello Maestro

 

When I change an outfit I generally just right click on the outfit of choice and choose replace current outfit - if there are underpants or whatnot in there depends on whether or not the creator of the outfit put them in!

Following your steps to the letter using a combination of Firestorm, LL Beta viewer and CoolViewer I see tight pants and not cuffs 'n' flares when logging back in.  I used the complete "Male Average" avatar during the testing.

Thank you for helping to confirm this issue.

Black