Aliewnare Prize in SL10 Birthday

[Amethyst Jetaime]

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Aethelwine wrote:

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Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

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Nova Convair wrote:

Some people seem to feel bashed, but in the OP is nothing about LL or the americans in general. Seems some people can't read or work for Alienware.

To the OP: I agree and I already noticed that. If someone treats you 2nd class, just don't buy their products. So for me I see no problem.

 

 

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Apparently my first post on this giving some pretty valid reasons for this sailed right over you head. 

I see non US websites all the time offering contests that US citizen's can't enter. Do I get upset about it? No.

I see contests in the US I can't enter because I don't qualify for one reason or another.  Do i get upset about ?  No.

I don't see any people from Rhode Island on here complaining.

Contests put restrictions on who can enter them all the time.  That's why there are qualification rules.  If you feel like that makes you second class that is more your problem than anyone else's.  Children think that everything should be on a level playing field then they mature and realize life is not fair and that is not the way it works.

Who ever told you life was fair?  Life is too short to get worked up over such petty stuff.

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Your "pretty valid reasons" would be good reasons to keep things in perspective if the post you were responding to was complaining about competitions in general. The point that seems to be eluding you is this isn't any promotion, but a co-sponsored promotion being promoted by Linden labs to a large proportion of its membership who are excluded.

It is not actually a problem of false perception that someone being excluded is being treated as a second class citizen. It is a direct consequence of the exclusion, a matter of definition not perception.

You seem rather irate about the original post and those showing sympathy with it which is rather amusing when your last line seems to be agreeing with the original post that excluding the international community is indeed unfair.

In response to the original post.

It is pretty poor of Linden Labs to be promoting something so publically that excludes large numbers if not the majority of the people it is advertising it to. That is bad and thoughtless marketing, especially after the thoughtless way they handled the third party exchanges and those that needed to use their services.

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 If a company offers special deals for SL residents, whether it is a contest or a discount on headsets, LL historically mentions it on their web site.  Some of those are not open to all SL residents but this is the first time I remember such a big deal being made of it.  I'm sure it's due to the value and nature of the prize. 

Where did you get the idea this was an official SL promotion in that LL was co-sponsoring this? What we don't know is if Dell paid LL to do this, but wouldn't be surprised.  This is not co-sponsoring a contest any more tha you can say a TV station is co-sponsoring a sweepstakes that is mentioned in the news or advertised on the station.

Yes, it does kind of make me irate to see rants on the forum when people ignore the facts, or make them up or whine about fairness.  We are all old enough to realize that Life is not fair.  There are plenty of things that have happened to me in SL that I don't consider 'fair' either but I don't complain about it here.  I don't complain about other contests I've seen on the internet that I don't qualify for either.  BTW, if the contest were only open to non US residents, I wouldn't have complained.  I'd tell my non US friends and hope one of them won.  Life is too short to get your pants in a knot that you probably have just a very small chance of winning.

If people want to complain, Dell/Alienware are the people to direct the complaint to.

 

 

[Czari Zenovka]

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BrainPhrozen Woodsheart wrote:

http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Featured-News/Celebrate-SL10B-With-a-Chance-to-Win-a-New-Alienware-14-Laptop/ba-p/2053975

Bloody unfair that this prize is not open to the whole of the sl community across the world and not just US Citizens. Does anyone else agree?

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No.

[Czari Zenovka]

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Perrie Juran wrote:

 

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Carole Franizzi wrote:

Okay, so the pc prize was maybe more a publicity vehicle for the pc company than an actual SL birthday competition prize, but, just out of curiosity - what kind of prizes has LL been offering residents in anniversary-linked contests? 

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The last thing I got for free from LL was one of these Troobles.

 

 

They were a little stringy but still very tasty.

Shopkeeper Linden

 has had some freebies available.

Oh and I see now they have alien t-shirts available. 

Better get them before supplies run out!

 

 

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Thanks, Perrie.  Was wondering if anything besides the bear avatar would be released.  All stocked up now.

[Perrie Juran]

 

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Carole Franizzi wrote:

 

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Golly. I'm so...erm...jealous. I've always wanted a whateverthatis on a stick.

 

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Trooble Pigs (pops) were a limited time free offer which, egads, was "available only to users of the free Amazon Game Connect service, which is currently limited to customers in the US."    Sheeeeesh!

 

It was probably a good thing they were free because they did not perform as advertised.  Apparently the designer forgot that there are some caveats to enabling a security device (Guard Mode) in SL.  Most obviously, teh Linden in charge must not have taken one for a ride before releasing them into the wild.

Maybe the O.P. does have a point here that LL needs to consider its non U.S. customers more also.

 

eta fixed link

 

[ImaTest1488314069]

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Aethelwine wrote:

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It is pretty poor of Linden Labs to be promoting something so publically that excludes large numbers if not the majority of the people it is advertising it to. That is bad and thoughtless marketing, especially after the thoughtless way they handled the third party exchanges and those that needed to use their services.

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You haven't seen or participated in many contests in your lifetime, have you?

Most have some exclusions, period. There are companies with a worldwide presence that only allow residents of a certain area to participate. You have no idea why the exclusions are there, so how can you say they are unjust, or thoughtless marketing? There very well may be a valid reason behind them. Just as Rhode Island residents who are excluded, are for a very good reason.

Alienware came to the lab with the contest, and they chose the terms. I'm sure they have a reason for them. The lab has said the contest is restricted to sl residents, but that's not true, thousands, at least(by now probably tens of thousands) of non-residents have entered the contest as well. It's not poor marketing on the part of the lab, they didn't choose the terms. It's a joint effort because sl is cross promoting alienware's name and logo.

[Aethelwine]

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Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

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Aethelwine wrote:

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Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

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Nova Convair wrote:

Some people seem to feel bashed, but in the OP is nothing about LL or the americans in general. Seems some people can't read or work for Alienware.

To the OP: I agree and I already noticed that. If someone treats you 2nd class, just don't buy their products. So for me I see no problem.

 

 

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Apparently my first post on this giving some pretty valid reasons for this sailed right over you head. 

I see non US websites all the time offering contests that US citizen's can't enter. Do I get upset about it? No.

I see contests in the US I can't enter because I don't qualify for one reason or another.  Do i get upset about ?  No.

I don't see any people from Rhode Island on here complaining.

Contests put restrictions on who can enter them all the time.  That's why there are qualification rules.  If you feel like that makes you second class that is more your problem than anyone else's.  Children think that everything should be on a level playing field then they mature and realize life is not fair and that is not the way it works.

Who ever told you life was fair?  Life is too short to get worked up over such petty stuff.

---

Your "pretty valid reasons" would be good reasons to keep things in perspective if the post you were responding to was complaining about competitions in general. The point that seems to be eluding you is this isn't any promotion, but a co-sponsored promotion being promoted by Linden labs to a large proportion of its membership who are excluded.

It is not actually a problem of false perception that someone being excluded is being treated as a second class citizen. It is a direct consequence of the exclusion, a matter of definition not perception.

You seem rather irate about the original post and those showing sympathy with it which is rather amusing when your last line seems to be agreeing with the original post that excluding the international community is indeed unfair.

In response to the original post.

It is pretty poor of Linden Labs to be promoting something so publically that excludes large numbers if not the majority of the people it is advertising it to. That is bad and thoughtless marketing, especially after the thoughtless way they handled the third party exchanges and those that needed to use their services.

---

 If a company offers special deals for SL residents, whether it is a contest or a discount on headsets, LL historically mentions it on their web site.  Some of those are not open to all SL residents but this is the first time I remember such a big deal being made of it.  I'm sure it's due to the value and nature of the prize. 

Where did you get the idea this was an official SL promotion in that LL was co-sponsoring this? What we don't know is if Dell paid LL to do this, but wouldn't be surprised.  This is not co-sponsoring a contest any more tha you can say a TV station is co-sponsoring a sweepstakes that is mentioned in the news or advertised on the station.

Yes, it does kind of make me irate to see rants on the forum when people ignore the facts, or make them up or whine about fairness.  We are all old enough to realize that Life is not fair.  There are plenty of things that have happened to me in SL that I don't consider 'fair' either but I don't complain about it here.  I don't complain about other contests I've seen on the internet that I don't qualify for either.  BTW, if the contest were only open to non US residents, I wouldn't have complained.  I'd tell my non US friends and hope one of them won.  Life is too short to get your pants in a knot that you probably have just a very small chance of winning.

If people want to complain, Dell/Alienware are the people to direct the complaint to.

 

 

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Where people get the idea Linden Labs are responsible is the very first line of the featured news.

by  Linden Lab ‎06-20-2013 11:35 AM - edited ‎06-20-2013 11:36 AM

 To help celebrate Second Life’s tenth birthday, we’re running a co-promotion with Alienware ,

 

Linden Labs could have said you can pay for advertising space the normal way,. The news section is for news features for our customers, not just some of our customers, but all our customers. It is like conservatories being advertised to people in tower blocks it just pisses people off and makes the marketing company look daft.

[Aethelwine]

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ImaTest wrote:

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Aethelwine wrote:

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It is pretty poor of Linden Labs to be promoting something so publically that excludes large numbers if not the majority of the people it is advertising it to. That is bad and thoughtless marketing, especially after the thoughtless way they handled the third party exchanges and those that needed to use their services.

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You haven't seen or participated in many contests in your lifetime, have you?

Most have some exclusions, period. There are companies with a worldwide presence that only allow residents of a certain area to participate. You have no idea why the exclusions are there, so how can you say they are unjust, or thoughtless marketing? There very well may be a valid reason behind them. Just as Rhode Island residents who are excluded, are for a very good reason.

Alienware came to the lab with the contest, and they chose the terms. I'm sure they have a reason for them. The lab has said the contest is restricted to sl residents, but that's not true, thousands, at least(by now probably tens of thousands) of non-residents have entered the contest as well. It's not poor marketing on the part of the lab, they didn't choose the terms. It's a joint effort because sl is cross promoting alienware's name and logo.

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Linden Labs chose to take the money and waste peoples time reading irrelevant spam.

Its not the end of the world but Linden Labs are responsible for accepting and making themselves look stupid. False advertising is one thing that is against the law in my country like saying something is open to sl residents when in fact it is open to anyone in the US. I doubt very much the money alienware paid Linden labs can be worth the damage to their inclusive image and sense of propriety such co-promotions engender.

[Nova Convair]

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Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

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Nova Convair wrote:

Some people seem to feel bashed, but in the OP is nothing about LL or the americans in general. Seems some people can't read or work for Alienware.

To the OP: I agree and I already noticed that. If someone treats you 2nd class, just don't buy their products. So for me I see no problem.

 

 

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Apparently my first post on this giving some pretty valid reasons for this sailed right over you head. 

I see non US websites all the time offering contests that US citizen's can't enter. Do I get upset about it? No.

I see contests in the US I can't enter because I don't qualify for one reason or another.  Do i get upset about ?  No.

I don't see any people from Rhode Island on here complaining.

Contests put restrictions on who can enter them all the time.  That's why there are qualification rules.  If you feel like that makes you second class that is more your problem than anyone else's.  Children think that everything should be on a level playing field then they mature and realize life is not fair and that is not the way it works.

Who ever told you life was fair?  Life is too short to get worked up over such petty stuff.

 

 

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This is not about us or non us websites.

It's about SL with citizens all over the world. You obviuosly aren't aware that SL is american but has citizens everywhere. SL events should take that into consideration.

So this is obviously about 1st and 2nd class treatment.

Of course the world isn't fair. But nor am I. I will draw my conclusions and it will influence my further actions. So it's negative advertisement in this case. Congrats to Alienware and LL as the hoster.

 

[Carole Franizzi]

I'm seeing them, yet I still don't know what they are. I'll avoid mentioning what I thought they were in the first photo, cuz I'm a lady.

 

[Carole Franizzi]

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ImaTest wrote:

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Aethelwine wrote:

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It is pretty poor of Linden Labs to be promoting something so publically that excludes large numbers if not the majority of the people it is advertising it to. That is bad and thoughtless marketing, especially after the thoughtless way they handled the third party exchanges and those that needed to use their services.

---

You haven't seen or participated in many contests in your lifetime, have you?

Most have some exclusions, period. There are companies with a worldwide presence that only allow residents of a certain area to participate. You have no idea why the exclusions are there, so how can you say they are unjust, or thoughtless marketing? There very well may be a valid reason behind them. Just as Rhode Island residents who are excluded, are for a very good reason.

Alienware came to the lab with the contest, and they chose the terms. I'm sure they have a reason for them. 

I think it's pretty likely that Alienware offered one of their pc's as a prize linked to SL10B, and got their logo on the SL10B t-shirts as part of the agreement. Nothing wrong with promoting, just odd that the pc comes across as one of the main (if not the actual main) SL10B contest prizes but not available to everyone, and, to be frank, even odder having

their

t-shirts as the 'official' SL10B t-shirt. No? Is it just me? 

No, absolutely nothing wrong with promoting - but if it leaves a bitter taste in many potential clients' mouths, then you're doing it wrong. Sometimes it's not just about what, but where, when and how. I believe Confucius said that. Though I believe he was six-pints in at a pub at the time. I think he might also have muttered something about greed and ingratitude too, but I was pretty sozzled myself by that time and was busy doing my impression of Celine Dion to pay much attention to him.

Two months use of a sim...well, by the time you've spent cash and time to landscape and build something on it, it'll be time to pack up your bags and go. Would have made more sense was to offer it for a year - that way you'd have had a chance to develop something which generated an income on it, so you could have kept it on

and

added to the SL economy. 

 

 

 

[Amethyst Jetaime]

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Nova Convair wrote:

---

Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

---

Nova Convair wrote:

Some people seem to feel bashed, but in the OP is nothing about LL or the americans in general. Seems some people can't read or work for Alienware.

To the OP: I agree and I already noticed that. If someone treats you 2nd class, just don't buy their products. So for me I see no problem.

 

 

---

Apparently my first post on this giving some pretty valid reasons for this sailed right over you head. 

I see non US websites all the time offering contests that US citizen's can't enter. Do I get upset about it? No.

I see contests in the US I can't enter because I don't qualify for one reason or another.  Do i get upset about ?  No.

I don't see any people from Rhode Island on here complaining.

Contests put restrictions on who can enter them all the time.  That's why there are qualification rules.  If you feel like that makes you second class that is more your problem than anyone else's.  Children think that everything should be on a level playing field then they mature and realize life is not fair and that is not the way it works.

Who ever told you life was fair?  Life is too short to get worked up over such petty stuff.

 

 

---

This is not about us or non us websites.

It's about SL with citizens all over the world. You obviuosly aren't aware that SL is american but has citizens everywhere. SL events should take that into consideration.

So this is obviously about 1st and 2nd class treatment.

Of course the world isn't fair. But nor am I.

I will draw my conclusions and it will influence my further actions. So it's negative advertisement in this case. Congrats to Alienware and LL as the hoster.

 

---

I am very aware of the international population of SL as my friends in SL live in places all over the world.

You are wrong about it not being a US vs Non US company website promotion.  This is not a SL event.  It is a contest run by a separate company who set the rules.  LL has no control over that.  You don't enter on a SL website.  You have to go to another website entirely.  The contest is an obvious marketing promotion for Alienware not SL.  You don't even have to be a SL resident to enter. 

It is your prerogative to choose where you spend your money just as it is Dell/Alienware's to choose who to market their products to through contests such as this.

[Carole Franizzi]

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Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

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Nova Convair wrote:

---

Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

---

Nova Convair wrote:

Some people seem to feel bashed, but in the OP is nothing about LL or the americans in general. Seems some people can't read or work for Alienware.

To the OP: I agree and I already noticed that. If someone treats you 2nd class, just don't buy their products. So for me I see no problem.

 

 

---

Apparently my first post on this giving some pretty valid reasons for this sailed right over you head. 

I see non US websites all the time offering contests that US citizen's can't enter. Do I get upset about it? No.

I see contests in the US I can't enter because I don't qualify for one reason or another.  Do i get upset about ?  No.

I don't see any people from Rhode Island on here complaining.

Contests put restrictions on who can enter them all the time.  That's why there are qualification rules.  If you feel like that makes you second class that is more your problem than anyone else's.  Children think that everything should be on a level playing field then they mature and realize life is not fair and that is not the way it works.

Who ever told you life was fair?  Life is too short to get worked up over such petty stuff.

 

 

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This is not about us or non us websites.

It's about SL with citizens all over the world. You obviuosly aren't aware that SL is american but has citizens everywhere. SL events should take that into consideration.

So this is obviously about 1st and 2nd class treatment.

Of course the world isn't fair. But nor am I.

I will draw my conclusions and it will influence my further actions. So it's negative advertisement in this case. Congrats to Alienware and LL as the hoster.

 

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I am very aware of the international population of SL as my friends in SL live in places all over the world.

You are wrong about it not being a US vs Non US company website promotion.  This is

not

a SL event.  

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Yeah, but that's not entirely accurate, Amethyst. It appears on the LL news thingy as a contest to celebrate SL's anniversary. That's exactly how it's worded. Maybe you discover that it isn't an SL-thang when you go further than just reading that piece of news (I didn't bother since now I know I'm not eligible), but it IS undeniably being presented as a SL10B event within SL. 

To suggest that LL has no control...well, of course nobody looks a gift horse in the mouth, but it's possibly the way it's been presented - as an SL10B contest, when it isn't, which is leaving people perplexed.

Can I also say - yes, of course Dell can do what they want - but being in the right over the right (sorry for the repetition) to do what you want doesn't have any sort of value whatsoever in a successful marketing campaign. It's not about proving the fairness/unfairness of the initiative, it's about how the initiative is perceived and, more importantly, whether that perception encourages people to go out and buy their product. It isn't politics or human rights - it's commerce, after all. S'all 'bout the money.

 

 

 

[Perrie Juran]

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Carole Franizzi wrote:

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I think it's pretty likely that Alienware offered one of their pc's as a prize linked to SL10B, and got their logo on the SL10B t-shirts as part of the agreement. Nothing wrong with promoting, just odd that the pc comes across as one of the main (if not the actual main) SL10B contest prizes but not available to everyone, and, to be frank, even odder having

their

t-shirts as the 'official' SL10B t-shirt. No? Is it just me? 

No, absolutely nothing wrong with promoting - but if it leaves a bitter taste in many potential clients' mouths, then you're doing it wrong. Sometimes it's not just about what, but where, when and how. I believe Confucius said that. Though I believe he was six-pints in at a pub at the time. I think he might also have muttered something about greed and ingratitude too, but I was pretty sozzled myself by that time and was busy doing my impression of Celine Dion to pay much attention to him.

Two months use of a sim...well, by the time you've spent cash and time to landscape and build something on it, it'll be time to pack up your bags and go. Would have made more sense was to offer it for a year - that way you'd have had a chance to develop something which generated an income on it, so you could have kept it on

and

added to the SL economy. 

 

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I don't know how service/sales to businesses works in the computer industry but it would not surprise me if there was a Sales/Service Rep from Dell assigned to LL.  They do need to get their hardware somewhere.

When I worked as a Sales Rep it was not unusual for our customers to request promotional items for special events like new store openings, anniversary sales, and such.

Actually a good Rep stays ahead of the game on this:  It makes for good customer relations.  I would be calling my accounts to tell them I had something for them before they asked.

I would consider the T-Shirts a bit of a stretch though.  I should get one and see how well it fits.

[Ciaran Laval]

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Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

I am very aware of the international population of SL as my friends in SL live in places all over the world.

You are wrong about it not being a US vs Non US company website promotion.  This is

not

a SL event.  It is a contest run by a separate company who set the rules.  LL has no control over that.  You don't enter on a SL website.  You have to go to another website entirely.  The contest is an obvious marketing promotion for Alienware not SL.  You don't even have to be a SL resident to enter. .

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It's cross promotional, but the reason people will think that it's done via Linden Lab is because it appears as a message of the day link on login with the official Second Life viewer and there is no indication that it's restricted to USA residents only, until of course you get to the details via said link.

[Brayla Ravenhurst]

I feel as though this whole anniversary promotion/celebration is sloppy and haphazard.  There should have been a companion contest across the pond - I am sure there is a computer company who would have liked to receive markeing information offer a contest to european and asian residents.

[Malanya]

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Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

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Nova Convair wrote:

---

Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

---

Nova Convair wrote:

Some people seem to feel bashed, but in the OP is nothing about LL or the americans in general. Seems some people can't read or work for Alienware.

To the OP: I agree and I already noticed that. If someone treats you 2nd class, just don't buy their products. So for me I see no problem.

 

 

---

Apparently my first post on this giving some pretty valid reasons for this sailed right over you head. 

I see non US websites all the time offering contests that US citizen's can't enter. Do I get upset about it? No.

I see contests in the US I can't enter because I don't qualify for one reason or another.  Do i get upset about ?  No.

I don't see any people from Rhode Island on here complaining.

Contests put restrictions on who can enter them all the time.  That's why there are qualification rules.  If you feel like that makes you second class that is more your problem than anyone else's.  Children think that everything should be on a level playing field then they mature and realize life is not fair and that is not the way it works.

Who ever told you life was fair?  Life is too short to get worked up over such petty stuff.

 

 

---

This is not about us or non us websites.

It's about SL with citizens all over the world. You obviuosly aren't aware that SL is american but has citizens everywhere. SL events should take that into consideration.

So this is obviously about 1st and 2nd class treatment.

Of course the world isn't fair. But nor am I.

I will draw my conclusions and it will influence my further actions. So it's negative advertisement in this case. Congrats to Alienware and LL as the hoster.

 

---

I am very aware of the international population of SL as my friends in SL live in places all over the world.

You are wrong about it not being a US vs Non US company website promotion.  This is

not

a SL event.  It is a contest run by a separate company who set the rules.  LL has no control over that.  You don't enter on a SL website.  You have to go to another website entirely.  The contest is an obvious marketing promotion for Alienware not SL.  You don't even have to be a SL resident to enter. 

It is your prerogative to choose where you spend your money just as it is Dell/Alienware's to choose who to market their products to through contests such as this.

---

Amethyst, all these posts started out stating that Residents in other countries didn't count, a few of them changed their tune to it was a bad way to promote and I could go on. I am not sure how many people understand what marketing is and how it works and yes, leaves some demographics out, for many reasons.

I don't understand the thought of 2nd class citizen even playing a part in this? How can anyone come to that conclusion? MANY companies use marketing strategies that don't include the whole wide world even if cross promoting with a company that has global users, wouldn't you agree?

To even think that having separate contests in all these other countries makes my head spin, I don't know if people understand what costs go into a contest, the prize, even if high priced, is the cheapest cost.

[Perrie Juran]

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Malanya wrote:

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To even think that having separate contests in all these other countries makes my head spin, I don't know if people understand what costs go into a contest, the prize, even if high priced, is the cheapest cost.

---

 

To begin with they couldn't rely on the information provided by all of us wanna-be lawyers in The SL Forums to find out what it would take to be in compliance with all local laws.  You'd need to find a Real Lawyer who knew the laws in the locality they were running the promotion.  And Real Lawyers cost way more money than Forum Lawyers. 

[Malanya]

Exactly, Perrie, and no matter what someone is is always going to be left out and no one here can control that or give counsel on that . I can understand questions if a person didn't understand about the contest, that type of question to me at least comes across clear. I just didn't understand all the posts about people in other places not being worthy, they are being treated wrong, etc.

[Carole Franizzi]

I'm pretty sure nobody was seeking counsel or expecting a fellow SLer to do something about it. Self-expression is often just an end in itself. Nothing like a bit of a grumble to get rid of a niggly annoyance.

[Malanya]

Yeah I know no one was seeking counsel or expect an outcome from here. Saying that people in foreign countries don't count is a sad way to think, but it's their thought to think.

[Carole Franizzi]

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Malanya wrote:

Yeah I know no one was seeking counsel or expect an outcome from here. Saying that people in foreign countries don't count is a sad way to think, but it's their thought to think.

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Yeah, but Malanya, maybe that's the point - maybe non-Americans don't feel 'foreign' in SL - maybe they feel they belong to SL as much as any American, and maybe it's something to do with Americans seeing them as foreigners in what they consider their own virtual nation which is at the root of the issue.  

[Malanya]

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Carole Franizzi wrote:

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Malanya wrote:

Yeah I know no one was seeking counsel or expect an outcome from here. Saying that people in foreign countries don't count is a sad way to think, but it's their thought to think.

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Yeah, but Malanya, maybe that's the point - maybe non-Americans don't feel 'foreign' in SL - maybe they feel they belong to SL as much as any American, and maybe it's something to do with Americans seeing them as foreigners in what they consider their own virtual nation which is at the root of the issue.  

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I agree. I didn't separate them into a category, the posters did. I don't think anyone in sl should be made to feel "foreign" to this world or forum. I have stated that many times that sl is made up from people all over the world and not just the US. I also feel tolerance goes a long way.

 

[Carole Franizzi]

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Malanya wrote:

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Carole Franizzi wrote:

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Malanya wrote:

Yeah I know no one was seeking counsel or expect an outcome from here. Saying that people in foreign countries don't count is a sad way to think, but it's their thought to think.

---

Yeah, but Malanya, maybe that's the point - maybe non-Americans don't feel 'foreign' in SL - maybe they feel they belong to SL as much as any American, and maybe it's something to do with Americans seeing them as foreigners in what they consider their own virtual nation which is at the root of the issue.  

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I agree. I didn't separate them into a category, the posters did. I don't think anyone in sl should be made to feel "foreign" to this world or forum. I have stated that many times that sl is made up from people all over the world and not just the US. I also feel tolerance goes a long way.

 

---

Actually, nobody talked about 'foreigners'. The discussion has revolved around the entire worldwide SL community and a contest open only to RL US citizens. Unless my eyesight deceives me, you're the only one in the whole thread who's described some SL residents as coming from 'foreign' countries.

Listen, Malanya, here's the thing - like many people, I imagine, I signed up for something described as a virtual world. Not a nation - a world. And in fact SL is - as you said - made up of people from all over the planet. I probably discovered there was an American company behind it several months, maybe even a year or so in, however, this 'discovery' was a non-discovery - it made no difference to me - why should it have? - and though I can't mind-read the creator, I'm guessing it was never meant to be a digital America which other nationalities could visit, but not actually be citizens of. Would I have signed up for a virtual America? Maybe not - or, then again, maybe I would have - as a digital tourist to a nation which in RL I have not visited. Could have been interesting. But would I have set up home there, as I did in SL? Mm. No, I doubt it - I actually would have been foreign there.

However, that's not what I've ever perceived SL as. Maybe it was, in its beginning, but by the time I heard about it and joined, it was a global phenomenon, albeit tangibly Western in nature, and appeared to be populated with people from every corner of our planet. 

Sure, I get that the clever man who invented it is American, and consequently his company is located in the US. So, yes, I get that LL is American and must abide by US laws first and foremost (though if I've understood correctly, if I broke a British law in here, I'd be liable for prosecution in the UK - not sure me crying 'But I was virtually in America!!!' would be of much help), but surely SL itself was never meant to be America?

How would SL's virtual Japan and Italy and China and Africa fit into the equation? And what would that make me and so many others? Teleporting Tourists? Virtual Visitors? Imaginary Immigrants?

So, unless I've totallymisunderstood the spirit of the thing, there are no 'foreigners' inside SL, regardless of where our RL bodies are sitting. 

 

 

 

[Awe Thor]

Meh, you're all foreigners to me.

Awe . . . channels Camus

[Malanya]

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Carole Franizzi wrote:

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Malanya wrote:

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Carole Franizzi wrote:

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Malanya wrote:

Yeah I know no one was seeking counsel or expect an outcome from here. Saying that people in foreign countries don't count is a sad way to think, but it's their thought to think.

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Yeah, but Malanya, maybe that's the point - maybe non-Americans don't feel 'foreign' in SL - maybe they feel they belong to SL as much as any American, and maybe it's something to do with Americans seeing them as foreigners in what they consider their own virtual nation which is at the root of the issue.  

---

I agree. I didn't separate them into a category, the posters did. I don't think anyone in sl should be made to feel "foreign" to this world or forum. I have stated that many times that sl is made up from people all over the world and not just the US. I also feel tolerance goes a long way.

 

---

Actually, nobody talked about 'foreigners'. The discussion has revolved around the entire worldwide SL community and a contest open only to RL US citizens. Unless my eyesight deceives me, you're the only one in the whole thread who's described some SL residents as coming from 'foreign' countries.

Listen, Malanya, here's the thing - like many people, I imagine, I signed up for something described as a virtual

world.

Not a nation - a world. And in fact SL is - as you said - made up of people from all over the planet. I probably discovered there was an American company behind it several months, maybe even a year or so in, however, this 'discovery' was a non-discovery - it made no difference to me - why should it have? - and though I can't mind-read the creator, I'm guessing it was never meant to be a digital America which other nationalities could visit, but not actually be citizens of. Would I have signed up for a virtual America? Maybe not - or, then again, maybe I would have - as a digital tourist to a nation which in RL I have not visited. Could have been interesting. But would I have set up home there, as I did in SL? Mm. No, I doubt it - I actually would have been foreign there.

However, that's not what I've ever perceived SL as. Maybe it was, in its beginning, but by the time I heard about it and joined, it was a global phenomenon, albeit tangibly Western in nature, and appeared to be populated with people from every corner of our planet. 

Sure, I get that the clever man who invented it is American, and consequently his company is located in the US. So, yes, I get that LL is American and must abide by US laws first and foremost (though if I've understood correctly, if I broke a British law in here, I'd be liable for prosecution in the UK - not sure me crying 'But I was virtually in America!!!' would be of much help), but surely SL itself was never meant to

be America

?

How would SL's virtual Japan and Italy and China and Africa fit into the equation? And what would that make me and so many others? Teleporting Tourists? Virtual Visitors? Imaginary Immigrants?

So, unless I've

totally

misunderstood the spirit of the thing, there are no 'foreigners' inside SL, regardless of where our RL bodies are sitting. 

 

 

 

---

LOL Carole, what is YOUR point? I am not excluding people in sl, I will repeat.. I have posted many times that sl is for everyone around the globe and it has nothing to do with where LL is based. If you took my comment as you quoted above that I used the word "foreign countries" as a way of separating residents here, then I am sorry you have misunderstood.

BTW, where was your post on a thread not too long ago defending how everyone, no matter what their native language should know the language to a tee as a few "kind" posters pointed out that this is an English forum. That was ridiculous. The same people and a few more had fun mocking others abilities to type here as English was not their native language.

Yeah, so I think you took what I posted out of context, but again, it's your opinion of my words and the meaning behind them.