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UncommonTruth

Crying D:

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I just watched a video I need to share, I'm sending it to everyone I know in RL as well. I'm bawling my eyes out from it still. Grab tissues before you hit play :matte-motes-dont-cry:

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I do hope that you know that there's a difference between actually being gay and finding a sexual outlet (or being the vicitm of someone who is seeking same) in a prison.

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What intrigues me about this video is the maker could have used any social reference to make the same point against bullying. Race, religion, nationality, weight, beauty, etc etc.

I liked how the maker downplayed creation using the mating season (or similar) for reference. IMO marriage is marriage and between two people of legal age. The monetary side of marriage is different and the primary reason for the recent legal scuffles. If you truly love someone, tax write-offs and a piece of paper aren't important.

That said, IMO child rearing needs balance. I won't get into a heated debate here, it's just my opinion.

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You can't judge someone because they are different, not because they have problems or issues to deal with. everyone is different but we are all human and we all deserve a second chance, chance to prove ourselves and show the world that it is okay to be different. Can't give up on their dreams and hope for a better life, life they choose to live, live the choose to matter the most, people they choose to love and care about, people just give up too easy, and it shouldn't happen. Love is what matters, love makes a difference .

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Suspiria Finucane wrote:

What intrigues me about this video is the maker could have used any social reference to make the same point against bullying. Race, religion, nationality, weight, beauty, etc etc.

Really? A lot of kids being told that they're "abominations"? "Unnatural"? In their own churches? And sometimes by their own families? And offing themselves because they're Christian? Or Jewish? Or because they're Ukrainian? An epidemic of that, is there?


I liked how the maker downplayed creation using the mating season (or similar) for reference. IMO marriage is marriage and between two people of legal age. The monetary side of marriage is different and the primary reason for the recent legal scuffles. If you truly love someone, tax write-offs and a piece of paper aren't important.

I like how some people downplay marriage equality to where it's just "about the money", ignoring many of the other rights, responsibilities, benefits, and privileges of marriage (here's a list of just 1,138 of them).

 

It's called equality under the law.


That said, IMO child rearing needs balance. I won't get into a heated debate here, it's just my opinion.

I'm glad that questions of marriage equality and childrearing and adoption rights aren't left up to men who play lesbians on the internet to decide.

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this kind of hate was made to control people..where if people look back in real history.. not manipulated history..

you see in many cultures more than one gender..

especially in north america before it was touched and changed by outsiders..

even those cultures have been assimilated and taught or brainwashed to hate the other genders..

 people should realise that those being born into another gender is gift and not something to shame someone or those born with this gift to be ashamed of..

the only reason people feel strange or fear it is because they have been taught to..

to have insight of both male and female was considered a gift of two spirits..

and in many tribes treated with respect and encouragment to blossom..all lives were important and valued..

 

it is very natural..

where guilt and shame and shaming others and evil and sin and the rest..those are taught traights  to have people  spy on each other and many more worse things..those are for making it easyer for those that want to control everyone..

 

ETA: i took down the image out of respect for others..i..don't want to offend with it..it wasn't my intentions..

 

 

 

 

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UncommonTruth wrote:

I just watched a video I need to share, I'm sending it to everyone I know in RL as well. I'm bawling my eyes out from it still. Grab tissues before you hit play :matte-motes-dont-cry:


It's a moving story, Uncommon... but I wonder if the "reversal" helped to tell it. I am frustratingly analytical, and I feel the reversal loses traction because it ignores the fundamental biology that opponents of homosexuality use to pin their arguments. It is hard to wrap my mind around the conceit that breeding would be found universally necessary and generally objectionable.

I am able to empathize (to some extent) with people who suffer discrimination for any number of reasons. Although I had a fairly sheltered childhood, I did see friends suffer for their differences (sexuality, color, affluence, intelligence...). I never had to turn the world upside down to understand what they felt. I'm in the choir here, so I'm really more interested in this message being preached to the others. I wonder if torturing the logic makes an impression on people who do it every day.

As I'm writing this, Ceka has posted a single image with text that introduces an idea that may stick with me as long as the video.

Thank you for bringing this story to me, and for enduring my critique of it.

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I'm not overly analytical (I even had to copy/paste the word from your post to make sure I had it right :D)  but I think that yes plenty of people have to have their worlds turned upside down to be able to see something from another's view. I watched this video because it was forwarded to me by my niece, who got it from some classmates. It is apparently making the rounds via facebook and email through school kids, and sending them a powerful enough message to feel the need to pass it along. That can only be a good thing :)

 

Also, the girl in the video had a brother. The sexes weren't totally segregated as some of the comments on the vid said, and some of the posts here seem to be stemming from. Just wanted to point that out since to me the message was clear and didn't have anything to do with gender segregation lol. 

 

edited: reskimming the thread, and I might have imagined the vibe that made me add the second paragraph :o  I'm using it being almost 4 am as my excuse :matte-motes-asleep-2:

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the messege i got from it is how someone  innocent and those innocent around them can be caged into a society that polices itself from very natural things..

like programmed anti bodies to spot something they see as a threat or a weakness..something not normal..

also the pressure it has on someone that can hide from the anti bodies..

where some can't..

 

the ones that can't are color coded and can build up an immunity of it's own peers..and they have a better defense system ..but always changing totheir enviroment..

 

but one that can hide doesn't get the support of being nurtured in their defences..so they become lost and alone..to the point of it actually being them against the world..

i thought one of the sadest parts was her being able to relate to someone..then him being selfpreserving and saving himself and putting the crowd onto her..

 

if people misunderstood my post as just being about gender...

maybe i went a bit too far..

i was just trying to show that things are not always as they seem..

that one societies fear may just be many others gift..

i look at long before things were corupted and then long after..and i see so much hate and manipulation and more..

and i can't help but think..long before we were civilized..that we were so much more civil about many things that we are uncivilized about today..

i just wanted people that feel they are being shamed by this society to know..they are special..

and there was a time that they were recognized as that..gifted..

they should feel long ago strong roots for who they are..

a sense of something really great they can know about themselves in their histry to be proud of..that they may have not known..

to look back on for strength on those days they may feel weakend by the uncivil..

 

when i need strenght..i always look to my past for strength and guidence and to put things back into perspective..

and i just wanted them to see a very good piece of their past..and that this has to be true for all those that feel caged  by societys anti bodies..

sometimes when you just want to feel normal..you need a boost of something special about you to balance things out..

 

i didn't grow up to where i could hide from those people..i was color coded and there were no others around me that were like me from my peoples race but my family..especially when we moved to the bible belt in the south hehehe

which i had loving arms to hold me  in them..my father most of all..=)

 i hated people for much worse reasons than they hated me..and i let them make me ugly to them and to myself..all because of my race that i let them use against me..

then i found strength in my past and wisdom and became powerful  and  my heart grew bigger..

and it feels it would be selfish to try and keep something like tht to myself..

not when so many people hurt so bad..they need strength and confidence and to know they are not alone in many related ways..

 

 

i'm sure sometimes i go too far and some may call me goofy..

like they may now for the things i say..

but i hope someone will grab some of it or maybe totaly get it all and it help..

saying something is better than saying nothing at all..

i feel anyways..

my father taught me that =)

 

forgive my Ipad skills..i am not very good at ipadding lol

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Why did`t you just slap us and the rest of the tribe of usa  that been easier to take,,, then to have someone saying that about my People  * your picture * I have you to know that right out lie for most tribes,, we don't believe like that,, even if one was to have feelings of beefing gay would been kick out of the tribe. It was thought of has unholy act with my People.

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madman626 Fall wrote:

Why did`t you just slap us and the rest of the tribe of usa  that been easier to take,,, then to have someone saying that about my People  * your picture * I have you to know that right out lie for most tribes,, we don't believe like that,, even if one was to have feelings of beefing gay would been kick out of the tribe. It was thought of has unholy act with my People.

i didn't slap the rest..i said many tribe  not all...

so you stop saying i said all when i didn't..

and the picture didn't either..and i didn't make it..i just thought it was something to show people that were made to feel terrible...

not all tribe are as your tribe either..so maybe you shoudl not be sayign all are like yours in all the america's?

 

and also..i don't know your people so i don't speak for your people or you..and i don't speak for mine either..

just speaking about things from the past that are good things..

if you don't like those things ..then that is for you to decide..but lots of things from the past make me feel much better about things that are turmoil today..

 

i didn't set out to upset  people and or insult you.. i made sure not to include all ..because that would be a lie..

 also since it is an upsetting thing..out of respect..i will take it off..it was not my intention..it was meant for positive..

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I am a Christian. I just wanna throw that out there first of all. As a Christian, I cannot judge. I've read the bible. I can paraphrase that whole book in just a sentence. Love each other, and don't judge ffs. You can condemn anyone if you read through the old testament, and we're all "unholy" Using that as a reason for hatred and discrimination is a bunch of crap. If that's going to be used, then we also have to go back to non virginal brides being subject to death, along with anyone who's disrespected their parents, and anyone having any kind of sex that isn't being done to make babies. 

p.s. I responded wrong, meant to go for Ceka's responder who brought up unholyness. :matte-motes-kiss:

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Griffin Ceawlin wrote:


Suspiria Finucane wrote:

What intrigues me about this video is the maker could have used any social reference to make the same point against bullying. Race, religion, nationality, weight, beauty, etc etc.

Really? A lot of kids being told that they're "abominations"? "Unnatural"? In their own churches? And sometimes by their own families? And offing themselves because they're Christian? Or Jewish? Or because they're Ukrainian? An
of that, is there?


Griffin Ceawlin wrote:

I like how some people downplay marriage equality to where it's
just
"about the money", ignoring many of the other rights, responsibilities, benefits, and privileges of marriage (here's a list of just
of them).

 

It's called equality under the law.

I like how some people's overwhelming hatred inclines them to make things up.

 

 

 


Griffin Ceawlin wrote:

I'm glad that questions of marriage equality and childrearing and adoption rights aren't left up to men who play lesbians on the internet to decide.

I agree, I'm glad it isn't left up to you but what you do with your SL is your choice.


Griffin Ceawlin wrote: I'm only a
part-time
b*tch


 

 

 

 

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I a bit worried by the way your 'argument' is going here Suspiria.  There are likely to be people reading this thread who've experienced bullying because of their sexuality or witnessed it happen to friends or family members.   Responses to the points made as "oh don't go pleading special cases, bullying happens to *everyone*" could very well be heard as belittling and dismissive of their situations.  It can be as insulting and undervaluing as saying something like “oh you’re not really disabled, you only have chronic pain.  It’s not like you can’t walk”.  This video was trying to highlight the bullying of a particular group.  Trying to shift the focus away and diluting it is not likely to be seen as a supportive and understanding response, in fact probably quite the opposite.  So doubling down when someone disagrees with you and points out that it’s not a helpful comparison, as you did to Griffin, doesn’t make you any more right, but it does have the potential to make you look twice as insensitive.

 

I really don’t know where you’re going with the comment about the GAO.  I’m not from the USA, but I’m not aware of any serious allegations of corruption in this body – but you’re claiming they have “overwhelming hatred” and made those sources up?  Perhaps you could clarify what you mean here, but perhaps tread carefully, as allegations of hatred are serious ones and should probably not be thrown around carelessly.

 

I’m not even going near the last bit as both the comment and your reply to it are heading for incendiary in a forum thread sense, and perhaps this an area everyone should back away from.

 

I’ve been disappointed to see deliberate trolling in these help and discussion forums before, and I hope there’s nothing like that going on here.  Bitching about how pathfinding doesn’t work is one thing, bitching about things that make people feel suicidal is something else entirely.  I hope people can see the difference.

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You're comparing religious extremists with gay teens who commit suicide???

I don't even know how to respond to that except to say that it's stupid, and your thinking deeply flawed.


Suspiria Finucane wrote:

I like how some people's overwhelming hatred inclines them to make things up.

I didn't say this, you did:


The monetary side of marriage is different and the primary reason for the recent legal scuffles. If you truly love someone, tax write-offs and a piece of paper aren't important.


I see you have a clear grasp of the issues...


I agree, I'm glad it isn't left up to you but what you do with your SL is your choice.


I don't play a lesbian (or a "domme", or a "queen") on the internet.


Griffin Ceawlin wrote: I'm only a
part-time
b*tch


Is there any particular reason you've quoted part of my sig back to me? When you think of one, let me know.

You're a full-time sumthin'...

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Beth Quander wrote:

I really don’t know where you’re going with the comment about the GAO.  I’m not from the USA, but I’m not aware of any serious allegations of corruption in this body – but you’re claiming they have “overwhelming hatred” and made those sources up?  Perhaps you could clarify what you mean here, but perhaps tread carefully, as allegations of hatred are serious ones and should probably not be thrown around carelessly.

Sus isn't speaking of the GAO.

Her assessment of "the recent legal scuffles" and her reduction of the question of marriage equality (and marriage in general, it seems) to one of finance is a tactic commonly used by some of the opponents of marriage equality.

Pointing that error out is apparently "making things up".

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UncommonTruth wrote:

I'm not overly
analytical (I even had to copy/paste the word from your post to make sure I had it right
:D
)  but I think that yes plenty of people have to have their worlds turned upside down to be able to see something from another's view. I watched this video because it was forwarded to me by my niece, who got it from some classmates. It is apparently making the rounds via facebook and email through school kids, and sending them a powerful enough message to feel the need to pass it along. That can only be a good thing
:)

 

Also, the girl in the video had a brother. The sexes weren't totally segregated as some of the comments on the vid said, and some of the posts here seem to be stemming from. Just wanted to point that out since to me the message was clear and didn't have anything to do with gender segregation lol. 

 

edited: reskimming the thread, and I might have imagined the vibe that made me add the second paragraph
:o
 I'm using it being almost 4 am as my excuse :matte-motes-asleep-2:

The question I have is whether reversing the stereotypes is helpful. Yes, it's done all the time, but that doesn't mean it actually works. I've had some pretty intense discussions on other topics with people who would be adamantly opposed to same sex marriage based on fundamental religious beliefs. I've tried that reversal technique (again, on other topics) and found that got them to really dig in their heels, as they felt mocked.

In the case of this video, they'd have a very valid counter to the reversal. Procreation requires a male and a female. It's hard to argue that society would accept that reality, yet find it an abomination. And once you've started from such a questionable premise, will you have any leverage?

Did I find the video moving? Yes. But, as one who supports same sex marriage, I'm interested in framing the discussion to move the opposition, not me.

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Beth Quander wrote:

I a bit worried by the way your 'argument' is going here Suspiria.  There are likely to be people reading this thread who've experienced bullying because of their sexuality or witnessed it happen to friends or family members.   Responses to the points made as "oh don't go pleading special cases, bullying happens to *everyone*" could very well be heard as belittling and dismissive of their situations.  It can be as insulting and undervaluing as saying something like “oh you’re not really disabled, you only have chronic pain.  It’s not like you can’t walk”.  This video was trying to highlight the bullying of a particular group.  Trying to shift the focus away and diluting it is not likely to be seen as a supportive and understanding response, in fact probably quite the opposite.  So doubling down when someone disagrees with you and points out that it’s not a helpful comparison, as you did to Griffin, doesn’t make you any more right, but it does have the potential to make you look twice as insensitive.

 

No need to worry. You’ve taken most of the things said out of context and render it easier to make my point.

 

Any type of bullying is wrong. You however appear to support cyber bullying on one hand while condemning other forms of bullying. Your hero is a known cyber bully. His reply to me was one of countless attempts to bully me not only here but anywhere he can. Many people on this forum have commented on his behavior. It may behoove you to do a little research before championing someone on the forum.

 

Back to my point…

 

What I said was : “What intrigues me about this video is the maker could have used any social reference to make the same point against bullying. Race, religion, nationality, weight, beauty, etc etc.”

 

In sensitive matters that interest most human beings, they gravitate towards what they were taught as children. Had you understood my original comments, I made no reference to any individual type of injustice therefore highlighting injustice as a whole and how people turn a blind eye to injustice they deem just. FYI Nowhere did I say *everyone*. If you’re going to make a point, please stop generalizing and be specific.

 

My focus is on bullying period. Shifting focus and diluting (the mating season) is exactly what the video maker did yet you say “it is not likely to be seen as a supportive and understanding response, in fact probably quite the opposite”. Make up your mind as to what side of the fence you are on. Your assumption of doubling down is again incorrect. Had you watched both videos in the series it deals with how children are victims of their environment. My reply,  to what he claimed was two different things, when in fact the OP’s video maker showed the exact same thing. Had the child been raised in a tolerant society, the suicide would have been avoided.

 

I have never tried to be more right as you claim. Had I supported one thing in particular instead of another, I could see how you could made that assumption but I didn’t. Instead what I did was post about another form of intolerance instilled in children furthering my point about balance. The bully assumed I meant male/female balance and attacked me for it. Intolerance in any form is inexcusable.

 


Beth Quander wrote:

 

I really don’t know where you’re going with the comment about the GAO.  I’m not from the USA, but I’m not aware of any serious allegations of corruption in this body – but you’re claiming they have “overwhelming hatred” and made those sources up?  Perhaps you could clarify what you mean here, but perhaps tread carefully, as allegations of hatred are serious ones and should probably not be thrown around carelessly.

Wow are you ever off base. GAO?  Where did you get that from?  If I were talking about the GAO, I would have referenced it specifically. Again however, you make my point by turning a blind eye to your own intolerance. You obviously don’t know much about the community guidelines. Singling out a person is against the rules. Granted, some people get away with it and some don’t but I err towards a safe reply so it doesn’t get deleted by the mods. FYI: the person with the hatred issues know who they are.

 


Beth Quander wrote:

I’m not even going near the last bit as both the comment and your reply to it are heading for incendiary in a forum thread sense, and perhaps this an area everyone should back away from.

If you aren’t going to be specific (like posting quotes to what you are referring to) I can’t comment on whether it is what you say or not. Seems to me like you're the one trolling for generalizations you can twist to suit your own insensitivities.

 


Beth Quander wrote:

I’ve been disappointed to see deliberate trolling in these help and discussion forums before, and I hope there’s nothing like that going on here.  Bitching about how pathfinding doesn’t work is one thing, bitching about things that make people feel suicidal is something else entirely.  I hope people can see the difference.

 The only trolling I see is by a cyber bully. Most of the other posters on this thread comment on a wide variety of topics. I also don’t see anyone who is “bitching about things that make people feel suicidal”.  Where do you get this from and perhaps you can show a particular quote where someone actually states it or is in your interpretation, doing so.

 

Incendiary conversations are nothing new to this forum. Misinterpreted replies are also nothing new. Each person on this forum has a set of values regardless of what those values are. While there may be a few who have broken the chains of their childrearing, most are still subservient to what they were taught.

 

This is my last visit to this thread. Have a good weekend :matte-motes-smile:

 

PS You might wish to consider questioning things you may not understand before posting such a misrepresentative reply.

 

 

 

 

 

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Suspiria Finucane wrote:

Any type of bullying is wrong.

The video concerned one type of bullying, Sus. You sound exactly like the anti-gay bigots when they cry "Why are we teaching our children that it's wrong to bully gay people? ALL bullying is wrong!!!"


You however appear to support cyber bullying on one hand while condemning other forms of bullying. Your hero is a known cyber bully. His reply to me was one of countless attempts to bully me not only here but anywhere he can. Many people on this forum have commented on his behavior. It may behoove you to do a little research before championing someone on the forum.


Is any reply that I make to you on the Forums to be considered "bullying", Sus???

And... I'm her hero?


My focus is on bullying period. Shifting focus and diluting...


Instead of the filmmaker, isn't that exactly what you're doing is shifting focus and diluting, Sus, by trying to make this about bullying in general instead of what the video was actually addressing???


The bully assumed I meant male/female balance and attacked me for it.


Surely, you can see how I might think that you were talking about male/female pairs being better parents, Sus...

P.S. Am I to be referred to as "the bully" from now on? Somehow, I think that might count as an "attack"... "bullying", even... and go against the Community Guidelines.


You obviously don’t know much about the community guidelines. Singling out a person is against the rules.


See above.


The only trolling I see is by a cyber bully. Most of the other posters on this thread comment on a wide variety of topics.


I comment on a wide variety of topics, too, Sus. In fact, I commented in this thread before you made your entrance.


This is my last visit to this thread. Have a good weekend :matte-motes-smile:


Buh-bye.

 

 

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