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Darrius Gothly wrote:

And Linden Lab will do everything they can to kill off the one and only reason people come here. Yes, indeed .. they are exactly that clueless.

content creators are an incredibly small proportion of the userbase and I don't think they have ever cared about how many there are, as long as there are some.  There will always be people who will battle past every obstacle they put in our way so they think they can afford not to care. 

 

As an aside, I got rid of my inworld presence last month and was surprised at the relief I felt when they announced that materials was going to be deployed on le tigre (my mainstore and a couple of my other stores were on le tigre) and I realised I didn't have to care what damage they were going to inflict on le tigre as I no longer was vulnerable to them. 

 

I always knew that there would be relief once I stopped banging my head against the SL wall but I was surprised a just how much happier I am knowing I'm a smaller target for them to hit.  If they screw up the marketplace, I'm not the one who gets shouted at and and this time I didn't even have to do anything to work around the problem.  It's been a win all round.  Honestly, stopping the pretence that SL isn't broken beyond sane use for me and pulling out of inworld SL has been the best thing I've done in years.

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CommerceTeam Linden wrote:

For those concerned about L$0 transactions not showing in the
: these transactions have not been removed, and you will continue to see L$0 transactions in your history.

 

Due to the nature of the payout issues we have been working to correct, there are some missing L$0 transactions from the history from June 25, 2012 through July 15, 2013. These transactions will not be recoverable in terms of your
. You should see all L$0 transactions after July 15, 2013, 11 am PT.

 

If you do not see L$0 transactions that should be logged in your Second Life transaction history after July 15, 2013, 11 am PT, please make sure you have checked the box “Include L$0 transactions?” If your L$0 transactions are still not showing up, please
.

 

We continue to work on paying out the remaining missed payments, but the majority of orders have been paid out at this point.

 

 

awwww ! thats totally weird CTL ! None of mine shows !!! none ! So maybe in YOUR world they show, but not in mine....

And i wont file a jira.... you already made me waste time checking about the records of my freebie sales after your post, i wont waste more time filing a Jira that you will close right away saying its a duplicate... im pretty sure you already have an original; so you dont need mine...

This is more than tiring... you should have test your new system before launching it... its the minimum... you didnt... you messed all.... well, why im not surprised anyway.?..

lil by lil you are taking away from me any willing to make business in SL... 

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Couldbe Yue wrote:

 

As an aside, I got rid of my inworld presence last month and was surprised at the relief I felt when they announced that materials was going to be deployed on le tigre (my mainstore and a couple of my other stores were on le tigre) and I realised I didn't have to care what damage they were going to inflict on le tigre as I no longer was vulnerable to them. 

 

I always knew that there would be relief once I stopped banging my head against the SL wall but I was surprised a just how much happier I am knowing I'm a smaller target for them to hit.  If they screw up the marketplace, I'm not the one who gets shouted at and and this time I didn't even have to do anything to work around the problem.  It's been a win all round.  Honestly, stopping the pretence that SL isn't broken beyond sane use for me and pulling out of inworld SL has been the best thing I've done in years.

I feel the same way, Couldbe.  Near the end of last year I closed my in world store with the intention of updating some of my older items and releasing some new ones that just need the final touch plus doing the photo shoots for the ads.  I also wanted to work on my store "atmosphere" which I invisioned might include a new building.  My initial thought was I would only have my store closed maybe three months, max.  However, as time went on and things occurred both in RL & SL, as well as realizing that sense of relief you mentioned at not having to keep banging my head against a brick wall with my inworld store, as the SL Exchange, Xstreet, MP, have always been and continue to account for 99% of my sales, the idea of re-opening drifted farther and farther from my thoughts.

I may one day re-open an inworld store, I may not.  I may continue creating or I might just take up exploring again.  Of course my mind could change tomorrow...lol. (I've had some weirdo bug or flu or something this past week that caused a high fever for a few days, so if this post doesn't make much sense, that's why. :matte-motes-wink-tongue:)

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CommerceTeam Linden wrote:

We continue to work on paying out the remaining missed payments, but the majority of orders have been paid out at this point.

 

 

Wow, you're STILL making right on your boo-boo, even after saying "within a week" the last two weeks? I'm curious: What's LL's justification for still taking commissions on these missed payments?

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One of the irreplaceable things about an inworld store is the ability to walk around it and be blown away by your creations.  I used to love doing that until a few years ago when I found that after every rolling restart I'd have to check every single item and vendor in the shop and for some either restart or replace depending on how locked up it got and to check the vendor sale info as well as checking to see if the item was still in the vendor.  A few months of doing that takes the shine off being a shopowner. sigh.  Occasionally towards then end I used to walk around just to remember what I built and was always impressed with most of it. (I know, I'm easy to please ;) )

I think that having a shop does boost your marketplace sales but in my case inworld sales stopped covering tier and I'd say that unless you're so low prim that you can have a shop cheaply, I really wouldn't bother with the aggravation.

 

(and I hope you feel better soon xxx)

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CommerceTeam Linden wrote:

For those concerned about L$0 transactions not showing in the
: these transactions have not been removed, and you will continue to see L$0 transactions in your history.

 

Due to the nature of the payout issues we have been working to correct, there are some missing L$0 transactions from the history from June 25, 2012 through July 15, 2013. These transactions will not be recoverable in terms of your
. You should see all L$0 transactions after July 15, 2013, 11 am PT.

 

If you do not see L$0 transactions that should be logged in your Second Life transaction history after July 15, 2013, 11 am PT, please make sure you have checked the box “Include L$0 transactions?” If your L$0 transactions are still not showing up, please
.

 

We continue to work on paying out the remaining missed payments, but the majority of orders have been paid out at this point.

Yes, they have been removed. Not a SINGLE ONE has appeared in my Main SL Transaction History since you released the latest "Fix" for the payment sources. That's a 100% failure rate ... guaranteed and verifiable. Yes, I know about the "Include L$0 transactions?" checkbox and it is ALWAYS checked. In the JIRA that I originally filed, I showed a screencap of that page pointing out (both in the description of the problem and the screencap) that the option was checked ON.

When people "Buy" Freebies from my in-world store .. those are showing up just fine. But none of the Freebies purchased through the Marketplace are showing up. I think that pretty much indicates that I have the various options set properly.

So go back and tell your programmer to double-check his/her work because the story they're telling you .. it ain't true. (And it might help if you check for yourself too .. since I'm getting the feeling that they're quite adept at pulling the wool over your eyes. Every time you come in here and make a statement like the above that is so obviously false, it just makes you look stupid .. and that's really NOT a good thing for a Department Manager to be doing.)

Oh .. yeah ... and I won't be filing another JIRA. I've filed enough of them over this issue. Just go back and reopen one of the ones already filed and closed by you (or someone on your team) and work from that one.

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Couldbe Yue wrote:


Darrius Gothly wrote:

And Linden Lab will do everything they can to kill off the one and only reason people come here. Yes, indeed .. they are exactly that clueless.

content creators are an incredibly small proportion of the userbase and I don't think they have ever cared about how many there are, as long as there are some.  There will always be people who will battle past every obstacle they put in our way so they think they can afford not to care.

...

Agreed. Linden Lab operates on the belief that "as long as SOME content creators remain, we're okay". But here's the foolishness in their thinking.

Those Content Creators willing to invest the time, the money and the skill into using the ever more complex and complicated creation tools in SL will also expect to earn an income that justifies that investment. The more they push the platform past the "Hobbyist" level as far as skill is concerned, the fewer people of Hobbyist skill will be able to create content.

So on the one hand they are making it impossible for anyone other than highly skilled and dedicated artists and creators to actually create content for Second Life, yet on the other hand they are destroying (both with direct action and through inattention or accidental bad action) the ability for skilled creators to earn a living.

For whatever reason they seem completely ignorant of the fact that the more professionals they drive out of the platform, the more "Hobbyist" level creators they will have left ... but Hobbyists that cannot create because the tools and skills needed are totally beyond their ability to obtain or apply.

It's like watching someone use a chainsaw to cut more and more chunks off their right leg, all the time saying "It's okay, I still have my left leg." All the while their left leg is planted firmly in a pool of quicksand.

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Darrius Gothly wrote:


CommerceTeam Linden wrote:

For those concerned about L$0 transactions not showing in the
: these transactions have not been removed, and you will continue to see L$0 transactions in your history.

 

Due to the nature of the payout issues we have been working to correct, there are some missing L$0 transactions from the history from June 25, 2012 through July 15, 2013. These transactions will not be recoverable in terms of your
. You should see all L$0 transactions after July 15, 2013, 11 am PT.

 

If you do not see L$0 transactions that should be logged in your Second Life transaction history after July 15, 2013, 11 am PT, please make sure you have checked the box “Include L$0 transactions?” If your L$0 transactions are still not showing up, please
.

 

We continue to work on paying out the remaining missed payments, but the majority of orders have been paid out at this point.

Yes, they have been removed. Not a SINGLE ONE has appeared in my Main SL Transaction History since you released the latest "Fix" for the payment sources. That's a 100% failure rate ... guaranteed and verifiable. Yes, I know about the "
Include L$0 transactions?" checkbox and it is ALWAYS checked. In the JIRA that I originally filed, I showed a screencap of that page pointing out (both in the description of the problem and the screencap) that the option was checked ON.

When people "Buy" Freebies from my in-world store .. those are showing up just fine. But none of the Freebies purchased through the Marketplace are showing up. I think that pretty much indicates that I have the various options set properly.

So go back and tell your programmer to double-check his/her work because the story they're telling you .. it ain't true. (And it might help if you check for yourself too .. since I'm getting the feeling that they're quite adept at pulling the wool over your eyes. Every time you come in here and make a statement like the above that is so obviously false, it just makes you look stupid .. and that's really NOT a good thing for a Department Manager to be doing.)

Oh .. yeah ... and I won't be filing another JIRA. I've filed enough of them over this issue. Just go back and reopen one of the ones already filed and closed by you (or someone on your team) and work from that one.

EXACTLY WHAT DARRIUS POSTED.

We are not stupid.... we are complaining about this because its clear that the LL Programmers have developed code that was NOT DESIGNED TO TRANSFER $0L MP SALE TX's TO THE MAIN SL TX HISTORY FILE.

So whoever you are that posted this CTL message to us Merchants in this thread - why don't you first check your facts before posting facts that are simply not true.  CTL HAS NOT FIXED THIS PROBLEM.  So either you are trying to send all us Merchants on a problem deflecting / deferring goose-chase to buy you some time, or worse yet you have ZERO clue what is going on by your Programmers that are outright lying to you.

The only $0L Sale transactions I get are from those sold INWORLD.  I have had several MP $0L TXs in the past few days and none of them show up on the main SL TX log.

So..... stop it with the "PLEASE FILE A JIRA"  its a waste of everyone's time.  We have all learned that the JIRA system is all but useless now.

FIX THE PROBLEM.

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Just as a bit of proof:

Here is the Main SL Transaction History for July 20th. You'll notice there are two in-world Freebie purchases but no Marketplace Freebies are listed.

Main SL Transactions for 2013-07-20.jpg

And now the iGlom RDS Order Report for the same day showing the sales made on the Marketplace. Note that there are actually four Freebie sales for that day:

iGlom RDS Order Report for 2013-07-20.jpg

'nuff said!

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I'm genuinely at a loss here to understand why it's so important.  The transaction history is useless for marketplace transactions anyway since it doesn't tell you what has been sold, so you still need to go into the SLM transaction history.

we'd all like them to do stuff properly but really we're usually happy with them doing least amount of harm as possible, which is what they have managed to do now they've fixed the payments.  It's like the way they "fixed" the image problem..  at least that's fixed for most people now.. except for people like me (and Czari iirc) who still have a rogue picture.  LL have never given any evidence they take pride in their work, certainly they've shown a healthy interest in making sure nothing ever gets finished (mesh, windlight, and a myriad of other things anyone?) so why beat them up over something that doesn't really give any kind of real improvement to our experience?  There's a long line of other things I'd rather they *ahem* "fixed" before that..

 

 

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"It's like watching someone use a chainsaw to cut more and more chunks off their right leg, all the time saying "It's okay, I still have my left leg." All the while their left leg is planted firmly in a pool of quicksand."

Thinking quickly, I removed my belt and threw it out to them. They snatched it from my hand it used it as a tourniquet. I'm not going to remove my pants now.

 

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Couldbe Yue wrote:

I'm genuinely at a loss here to understand why it's so important.  ...
 

Because the Main SL Transaction History is THE single source of absolute guaranteed reliable documentation of sales transactions. They know this is true because their "Fix" was to have the Marketplace use THE single payment source mechanism that is used by every other SL web property. Clearly they thought it important enough for their own purposes to centralize and standardize their payment process. Thus they should also understand that the reporting and transaction logging also must have one single source of expertise.

The Marketplace already has TWO reports (Orders and Order Transactions) that must be downloaded and coalesced into a single report (after switching the sort order on one of them because they run in opposite directions). The Main SL Transaction Report must, by definition, include ALL Transactions that take place in SL .. including L$0 transactions.

Leaving anything out, even something as "inconsequential" as Freebie sales from the Marketplace, completely destroys the veracity of the Main SL Transaction History report.

Of course, if you are working from the (ever more plausible) theory that Linden Lab is purposely destroying any means of deriving valid and usable financial data ... so as to prevent any business from actually deriving reliable income from SL .. then this latest change is another perfect "fix" to further that theoretical goal. By destroying the veracity of the Main SL Transaction report, they have driven the final nail into the coffin ... and once and for all proven that Second Life is not only unsatisfactory as a source of income, it is completely unacceptable and should be avoided by all businesses of any ilk.

I tend to  believe that Linden Lab is doing their level best to destroy all businesses within Second Life. I am at a loss to determine their motive for killing their golden goose like this, but I'm very solidly convinced that is their goal nonetheless.

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Dartagan Shepherd wrote:

"
It's like watching someone use a chainsaw to cut more and more chunks off their right leg, all the time saying "It's okay, I still have my left leg." All the while their left leg is planted firmly in a pool of quicksand
."

Thinking quickly, I removed my belt and threw it out to them. They snatched it from my hand [and] used it as a tourniquet. I'm not going to remove my pants now.
 

ROFL!!

/me tosses them another can of Chain Saw Oil ...

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Couldbe Yue wrote:

I'm genuinely at a loss here to understand why it's so important.  The transaction history is useless for marketplace transactions anyway since it doesn't tell you what has been sold, so you still need to go into the SLM transaction history.

we'd all like them to do stuff properly but really we're usually happy with them doing least amount of harm as possible, which is what they have managed to do now they've fixed the payments.  It's like the way they "fixed" the image problem..  at least that's fixed for most people now.. except for people like me (and Czari iirc) who
still
have a rogue picture.  LL have never given any evidence they take pride in their work, certainly they've shown a healthy interest in making sure nothing ever gets finished (mesh, windlight, and a myriad of other things anyone?) so why beat them up over something that doesn't really give any kind of real improvement to our experience?  There's a long line of other things I'd rather they *ahem* "fixed" before that..

Well based on that thought process, why don't we tell CTL to stop posting ANY transactions executed in MP to the main SL TX log?  As you said, the main SL TX log does not provide any important details on the MP Sale TX anyway that can't already be found on the ever trusted MP system and its logs.  So why should LL CTL make things overly complex and post some TXs to the main log and not others.  This only makes the main SL TX Log inconsistent since it reports EVERY SINGLE TYPE OF LL / SL ACTIVITY THAT HAS OCCURED BY AN SL ACCOUNT .... EXCEPT $0L MP TXs.

IF Posting MP TX's in the main SL TX Log is useless according to you, then LL should not post ANY MP TXs to the main TX Log.

Of course I do not agree with your position on this since there is value in having every single SL Account activity logged by the central TX Log.

 

  1. First of all, if we don't get CTL to fix this bug now - we all know that CTL will never ever ever go back and fix this bug later.
  2. As mentioned, until June there has been one thing that has been 100% consistent about the SL Main TX Log... that is that every single activity executed by an Avatar - even activities as basic as recording a transfer of a free prim inworld to another (that gets recorded as a GIFT of $0L) is posted in this TX Log.  The one thing you could count on in SL (which is not much that you can count on with LL) is that the main SL TX Log will capture a record of all activities - even if its summarized.  This bug now breaks this 100% consistency.
  3. The Main SL TX Log has often been used as a valueable auditing tool in the past - to validate that the LL CTL team has once again screwed something up.  Why?  Because we could compare the MP TX log with the SP Main Log.  Now with this BROKEN system, we are starting to lose an invaluable transaction validation troubleshooting tool. 
  4. The next thing will be that CTL will decide..... hmmm the Merchants had no problem with us dropping $0L TXs... now lets just drop all forwarding of MP TX records to the main SL TX log.  We all know how the CTL thinks.... so dont be naive in assuming that this will not be their next step.
  5. Its just POOR PRACTICE !

They need to fix this BUG .

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It's broken with 100% consistency - that's a record for them and makes it easier to work around.  How often do they grant us that kind of ease of use? ;)

Yes, it is poor practice but so is everything else they do.  Try to look at LL with a more objective eye and see them as they really are, rather than trying to hold them to the (for them) unattainable standards of a professional gaming company.   We've all been guilty of assuming that they were trying to be a real company but the reality is that they're not, and they never will be because they don't want to be and as long as enough of the schmucks keep paying tier, they don't have to be.

Even declining concurrency and income isn't focussing their minds.  Their care level is borderline non existent.

As for the transaction history being the master record of account transactions... if they truly thought that they wouldn't have left the marketplace transactions in such an uniformative state for the last three years but they have because they don't see it as important enough to get right.  The only thing they have fixed that I can think of is you can download 31 days of transactions, rather than the 30 it used to be.. (and I am grateful for that one).

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

 

 

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The bottom line is ... we keep wanting the Marketplace Dev Team to demonstrate that they give a damn about their product and their platform. We want them to demonstrate some level of professionalism, some amount of attention to detail ... some tiny snippet of caring about the work they do.

But they refuse to do that. Over all these years they refuse to perform to a professional level. They refuse to fix bugs. They refuse to test their work. They refuse to provide the service for which they are paid. They refuse to deliver a product that functions. They refuse to act as a law abiding entity. They refuse .. to be decent.

(fill in Sonny and Cher video of them singing "And the beat goes on ...")

/me remembers again why I stayed away from these forums for so long ...

/me waves goodbye and signs off again ...

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CommerceTeam Linden wrote:

Thanks for the feedback on the L$0 transactions not appearing in the transaction history. You are correct; these are not appearing. We will address this issue as quickly as we can.

Thank you!!  That is what we wanted to hear :)

Please inform us when this change has been put in so we can confirm.

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Well, CTL, i guess you are still not done... now a lot of ppl doesnt stop to come in the answer section in the forum saying they cant buy from the MP, each time they clik on the check out button they have a blank page.....

sighs....

well, again, you probably broked the purchase feature while you fixed the paiement one... 

so now, you did fine.. ppl wont just be able to purchase anymore what will fix for sure the pb about paiement to merchants and the freebies not appearing in the transaction history... id say you couldnt do better ! no more sales = no more issues , indeed....

so well, you are not done.. and have to go back to work on your so great new system to find why so much ppl cant buy anymore from the MP now... (adblock removing, clearing browsing cache, using a different browser have all been suggested, none of them worked, so i guess it comes from your website since it seems a lot of ppl have this problem now)

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CTL you really need to sit down and talk with the boss about the state of the marketplace. Rod has all these plans of wanting professional content and such in here, but people are only going to bring in that kind of content if they can reliably get paid for their work.

As it stands right now, turbosquid and the other sites are far more reliable when it comes to actually getting your money and providing a good experience for customers. The SLMP is all over the place, it has a bad reputation as unreliable.

Rod really, really needs to understand the importance of the market place. Quality content will keep users in Second Life, it'll drive numbers up everywhere.

I thought Rod would have realized that coming from EA he is moving from a business model of having to pay people to make DLC for their games and to have to pay folks to create content for their products, to Second Life where LL actually makes money off of people who create content for their game via encouraging users to invest in land to use that content and through commission through sales.

I had high hopes that Rod would have seen this and realized the importance of ensuring that Second Life had quality content that attracted quality developers which in turn attracted a large audience of people to play the game because of the quality content within Second Life.

Instead he has given us Patterns and such and has completely ignored things. The grid sits empty because people are not finding compelling reasons to stay logged in. They do not have the content to occupy themselves in SL.

Because of this people don't see the need for a sim, or to hang out in a certain place. Sims are expensive as it is, but when you sit down with an idea and you end up having to buy content from merchants to make it happen, and you have no confidence in the marketplace you're using to acquire that content, people just don't care as much about creating what they want in Second Life.

It really pains me as LL has basically made it extremely difficult to open up a competitor to SLMP given the massive convenience SLMP would offer over a traditional xstreet type of "pay a terminal and keep your account balance up.

The entire state of Second Life right now is bad. I'm simply trying to look at someone's picks right now and I keep getting a huge, pink scary error when I try and load the page.

The entire product needs to be brought to a level where it's at least reliable. I have serious doubts in everything myself as I see sales patterns that make no sense. I'll have the best days of the week end up on a Tuesday or Wednesday or something, and then have a horrible weekend. I'll have a great June and then make half as much in July.

Second Life is a great product, if it weren't people wouldn't put up with all the problems. But it needs to see a ton of quality changes before anything else happens. We need to see a feature freeze and commitment to fixing what is broken. Even if SLMP was fixed to be 100% reliable it's extremely painful to spend hundreds of dollars a month on something to have it constantly breaking with rez errors and stuff. I'd even be content with seeing features removed from SLMP in order to improve the reliability of actually finding products and getting them in world.

It's really easy to sit back and say that Second Life is going down, but the solution isn't as difficult as people seem to think. People have a massive intolerance for things not working or not being able to use things they paid for. That should be the #1 issue to address in Second Life right now. The fact that real money is being involved only makes things severely worse. It gets even worse when you have people depending on Second Life to make a living and confidence in the platform is so low that the vast majority of folks who provide content for this game have no faith things will ever get fixed.

Also, please start communicating with our customers on SLMP better. Changing the entire check out page is a huge, jarring change. People don't take well to massive, aburpt change at all, and it scares people when they are using real money.

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 1 month later...

Iren Tinkel, i purchased an item that you are the creator for as a gift, but it was sent to my inventory. I have been trying for over two hours to contact some one that can help me correct this and discuss my purchase. Would you please contact me or have someone contact me so that i can straighten this out. A little customer service please.

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wango007 wrote:

Iren Tinkel, i purchased an item that you are the creator for as a gift, but it was sent to my inventory. I have been trying for over two hours to contact some one that can help me correct this and discuss my purchase. Would you please contact me or have someone contact me so that i can straighten this out. A little customer service please.

Random problem post in a random thread.

If this was a marketplace purchase either:-

a) You did it wrong

b) Marketplace did it wrong

In either case, rectification is via LL, open a support case and they'll be happy to help you.  If b) The merchant is detached form the process and has no control over Marketplace delivery.

If a) revise purchasing techniques, it's easy to accidentally buy instead of add to cart as gift.  In my experience, Marketplace may do many things but it doesn't accidentally deliver to the buyer instead of a gift recipient when done correctly.

If trying to contact Iren, 2 hours is not enough to wait, I can go afk for longer than that.  A couple of days is more reasonable since many merchants are not here full time waiting to do support the moment it crops up.  LL Support response time is not dissimilar and they ARE paid to be here waiting for problems to crop up.

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