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Arwen Serpente wrote:

Only got half of mine reimbursed so far.

Laughs, so I file a JIRA for the outstanding payments (they did say to file them if you want) and they close it immediately - but I still haven't been repaid.

/me slaps forehead. Several times.

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Commerce Team -

I just received notification that you have closed yet another one of my JIRAs requesting reimbursement for funds due to this bug. The message on the closed JIRA reads: "We have verified that your account was credited for the funds missing between 25 June and 9 July.  If you are still missing funds, please open a new Jira Ticket". 

I have been reimbursed for only half of the transactions. I have opened new JIRAs at your direction with the information regarding the outstanding funds due, however, you keep closing the JIRAs I open.

Seriously CTL, this is the height of ineffective and inefficient use of resources. Please read the JIRA I just opened (again) for the information concerning the funds that have not been credited to my account due to the bug that was introduced when the MP was converted to the new financial system.

 

ETA - All missing payments have been credited. Thank you.

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  • Resident

As of Monday, July 15, 2013, 11am PT, you should no longer see any orders with failed payouts to Merchants or those receiving distributions.

We have made great progress on the process to payout missed payments and distributions; this process will continue into next week.

If you see a failed payment for an order completed after July 15, 2013, 11am PT, please file a JIRA.

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CTL, one of the things that should be taken away from this thread is the utter frustration of merchants who are told to file a JIRA, only for it then to be immediately closed.  They open a ticket which is immediately closed and told to file a JIRA and referred to this thread.

It would probably be helpful to explain precisely HOW filing a JIRA helps you, what the process is when you receive one and how that information is used to a) address the issue and b) why it's not utterly futile on the merchants part.

I would also be interested to understand why the process of a purchase/payment transaction is not truly transactional and why we have situations where a marketplace transaction happens without the corresponding payment transactions.

(I can pretty much figure out why but this would be a nice opportunity for a little transparency.  It goes a long way in gaining acceptance and cooperation when people understand what they're on the end of).

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dear team:

 

I have just gien new info, on the current jira, and was told that my funds were credited and in my account, but that i needed to refresh my L amounts. well, i have done this MANY times. I took a screenshot of my comp, and i went through my transactions with a fine toothed comb. ANyways perhaps there is a new big with the refreshing of L's? I know you have said i was paid abck already or whateer but i wasnt!!!!

 

ANyways thank you to whirly but this is frustrating!!!!!!!!!''I did everything i was asked to do, and put in those account numbers i was POSITIVE have not been credited. I have nvver had any problems with any amounts of between zeero, and 10L, it is jsut any amount over that.

 

so thank you so much to fix that!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

sincerely, tikitai of tikitai designs

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Did u have any issues with your "refresh your linden amount", option?  When you knew you got your payments, waas there a difficulty in seeing the funds when they were credited to you? becasue i am wondering if this is now a new bug that has popped up.

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Callak Skytower wrote:

 I was also going to post on my JIRA BUG-3143 ticket ....

....but since the ticket has been closed and later reopened by Whirly Fizzle with a message that it was accidentally closed, I cannot seem to post any further comments on it......

EEeek!

That wasn't me! :smileysurprised:

Check the HISTORY on your issue to see who closed it, re-opened it then reclosed it.

WorkingOnIt Linden closed it on 09/Jul/13 11:02 AM

CommerceTeam Linden reopened it on Friday 4:03 PM with the comment "Accidentally closed."

Then CommerceTeam Linden closed it Yesterday 5:22 PM

 

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tikitai,

There are two Date Selectors near the top of the SL Transaction History page that must be set properly before you can see all of your SL Transactions. Here is a screenshot of the Date Selectors showing one of them pulled down.

date selector.jpg

 

I recommend you set the first one (the "From" selector) to the very earliest date allowed then set the second one (the "To" selector) to the most recent date which should be today. Then click the "View" button to refresh the list of transactions. This should show up to 500 transactions for you to review.

If the Date Selectors on your Transaction History don't show dates from 30 days ago up through and including today then you will probably need to hit the F5 key (on PCs) to refresh the page and get a new set of Date Selectors. (I'm sorry but I don't know what key you use to refresh a web page on Apple computers. I'm a PC kinda guy.)

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Sassy Romano wrote:

CTL, one of the things that should be taken away from this thread is the utter frustration of merchants who are told to file a JIRA, only for it then to be immediately closed.  They open a ticket which is immediately closed and told to file a JIRA and referred to this thread.
...

I would also be interested to understand why the process of a purchase/payment transaction is not truly transactional and why we have situations where a marketplace transaction happens without the corresponding payment transactions.

It's such a bad idea to use a defect tracking system (JIRA) for incident management, that it doesn't surprise me one bit to see LL's transactions fail ACID criteria without having any audit processes in place to catch those failures.

 

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Thanks Darrius. Well, all of my transactions are now going through now. It is so nice to see sales again! And yes so now i am learning about the refresh options. I didnt know that before. Live and learn!...But throughout this whole incident, I think we merchants did a real good job of helping out. I am jsut glad I  and my customers are finally getting what we both want. Thanks for the help darius i followed your steps and it realloy helped!. Let us hope that this never happens again.

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Dear CTL,

I do hope you realize that just because you feel like you've solved the problem with payments not being made or recorded that you've "Fixed" the issue entirely. Quite the contrary in fact.

The L$ Balance showing at the top of each Marketplace page is now successfully displayed only about 5% of the time. Furthermore the sale of Freebies is still not being recorded in the SL Transaction History.

The fact that the former error still exists indicates that your code is unreliable and prone to causing massive follow-on errors at times of elevated load. The best recent example of this type of failure is the cross-linked listings issue that arose when you rolled out Direct Delivery. Take the time NOW to find and fix this error before it turns into another massive mess like cross-linked listings.

The fact that Freebies are no longer recorded IS AN ERROR! It is not something that you can just slough off as "not essential". It is quite essential. Back when Marketplace was first released, I had a conversation with Brodesky regarding the recording of Freebie sales. At that time we discussed the pros and cons extensively ... and Brodesky convinced me that it was very important to have them included. Because they have existed all this time, many people have come to depend on their presence when building and maintaining their customer records. To eliminate them now would be a great disservice to your customers.

I do hope you will recognize that the Marketplace is an essential part of Linden Lab's business and income facilities and treat it with all the professionalism and care that you treat your paychecks and membership payments from customers, rather than with the slack-handed and amateur sloppiness of a hobby that makes no money and has no use to any but a small handful of disinterested users.

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Darrius Gothly wrote:

Dear CTL,
The fact that the former error still exists indicates that your code is unreliable and prone to causing massive follow-on errors at times of elevated load.
The best recent example of this type of failure is the cross-linked listings issue that arose when you rolled out Direct Delivery.
Take the time NOW to find and fix this error before it turns into another massive mess like cross-linked listings.

Which still isn't fixed in many cases (including in my store) although CTL says it is.

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Darrius Gothly wrote:

[...] Furthermore the sale of Freebies is still not being recorded in the SL Transaction History.

The fact that the former error still exists indicates that your code is unreliable and prone to causing massive follow-on errors at times of elevated load. The best recent example of this type of failure is the cross-linked listings issue that arose when you rolled out Direct Delivery. Take the time NOW to find and fix this error before it turns into another massive mess like cross-linked listings.

The fact that Freebies are no longer recorded IS AN ERROR! It is not something that you can just slough off as "not essential". It is quite essential. Back when Marketplace was first released, I had a conversation with Brodesky regarding the recording of Freebie sales. At that time we discussed the pros and cons extensively ... and Brodesky convinced me that it was very important to have them included. Because they have existed all this time, many people have come to depend on their presence when building and maintaining their customer records. To eliminate them now would be a great disservice to your customers.

I think you'll find it's not an error but a design decision.  The transaction history has a unique set of properties (can't show anything more than the first 500 transactions, can only show the last 31 days, cant show the full order details from a marketplace sale so you have to go to the marketplace transaction history to see what it was etc etc) that leads me to think that removing the 0L transactions was a deliberate decision and not part of the change to payments.

 

In the end, this little pseudo-fiasco was actually fixed in a timely manner.  I can't even remember the last time that happened.  It may be that declining usage of SL is finally focussing their minds on their customers but on past performance, I doubt it.

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Couldbe Yue wrote:

Darrius Gothly wrote:

[...] Furthermore the sale of Freebies is still not being recorded in the SL Transaction History.

The fact that the former error still exists indicates that your code is unreliable and prone to causing massive follow-on errors at times of elevated load. The best recent example of this type of failure is the cross-linked listings issue that arose when you rolled out Direct Delivery. Take the time NOW to find and fix this error before it turns into another massive mess like cross-linked listings.

The fact that Freebies are no longer recorded IS AN ERROR! It is not something that you can just slough off as "not essential". It is quite essential. Back when Marketplace was first released, I had a conversation with Brodesky regarding the recording of Freebie sales. At that time we discussed the pros and cons extensively ... and Brodesky convinced me that it was very important to have them included. Because they have existed all this time, many people have come to depend on their presence when building and maintaining their customer records. To eliminate them now would be a great disservice to your customers.

I think you'll find it's not an error but a design decision.  The transaction history has a unique set of properties (can't show anything more than the first 500 transactions, can only show the last 31 days, cant show the full order details from a marketplace sale so you have to go to the marketplace transaction history to see what it was etc etc) that leads me to think that removing the 0L transactions was a deliberate decision and not part of the change to payments.

 

In the end, this little pseudo-fiasco was actually fixed in a timely manner.  I can't even remember the last time that happened.  It may be that declining usage of SL is finally focussing their minds on their customers but on past performance, I doubt it.

Sadly, as stupid and inconsistent a decision as it appears to be, I am afraid our fine strategy planning folks at CTL have removed all $0L sale transactions from MP sales to the main SL Account Transaction History ON PURPOSE.

If one would remove any strategic thinking, "good practice accounting" thinking, "best practice" thinking, and thinking that would service the best interests of a customer, making the deliberate decision to not include SOME of the MP sales transactions (those at $0L) into the customer account's master transaction log would be something you (and CTL) would do.

It makes no sense but likely in some LL Junior Developer's brain they thought...  "Hey, Why are we wasting our time reporting MP transactions into the master transaction history file?  Who really cares about these kind of transactions anyway??  Lets spend more development time to come up with a way to stop these annoying transactions from filling up the master TX file.  I am sure all the Merchants will thank us for this wise move.". 

Then, since the LL programmers and developers seem to make all the product functional decisions at LL, there was no one at a more strategic Sr. level to hear this latest "GREAT" idea and tell them...  "That's a stupid idea because the Master TX file is already capturing ALL other inworld transactions - even those when one avatar transfers a cube prim to another.  We do this for audit tracking and even troubleshooting purposes.  So why the heck would we remove actual MP Sale $0L TXs from this master file???  As such, NO you will not remove $0L MP TXs."

So as messed and limited as the Master TX file already is (ie. lacking details that are found in other TX files and a stupid 30 day history limit when other TX logs go back months), CTL has just further polluted and reduced the value of the Master TX file.

As frustrating as this is to watch CTL decision making with no common sense, sadly I would have to agree that Couldbe is correct.

What is really frustrating is that no one from the CTL who has been reading this thread and has heard these complaints about the $0L TXs missing has any guts to openly and clearly clarify with the Merchants that "THIS IS NOT AN ERROR - IT WAS DONE ON PURPOSE - AND HERE IS THE REASON WHY..."  They have posted on this thread but purposely avoided any chance of explaining this error that all the merchants are asking CTL about.  They would rather we all sit here and speculate and rant and complain how CTL's new payment system is broken (which to us merchants it truly is until the $0L TXs are restored).

This is the CTL we all know and love.

 

--||-
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With the new payment process .. running customers through the global payment options page instead of the old style method .. the Marketplace Dev Team removed the pathway through the payment process completely for all L$0 items. Thus if someone purchases only Freebies, they are never redirected through the payment gateway and thus no record is made in the Master SL Transaction History.

If they purchase a mixed cart, some Freebies and some cost items, only the items that have a cost associated are reported to the Master SL Transaction History.

Yes, it is a design decision. It is a very BAD design decision. It is in keeping with their mindset that Second Life, the Marketplace and any business operating within Second Life are hobbyist use only. Anyone able to make a living off of SL is just "lucky" and should never NEVER count on earning anything steady or reliable from the site.

The saddest part of all? The very fact that people CAN make money from SL is the ONLY reason they have a dedicated user base. People that just come here for fun, socializing, entertainment, or any other non-business related reason ... will stay about 3 days then split. Only those that can and do make money here will stay, will promote the site, will provide a reason for others to stay, and will populate the world with their talent, skill and enthusiasm.

And Linden Lab will do everything they can to kill off the one and only reason people come here. Yes, indeed .. they are exactly that clueless.

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Totally agree with you Darrius....

It just keeps making everyone that follow's LL's CTL actions shake their heads.

This has been the attitude of LL's Sr. management regarding the Merchant community and the hugely critical e-commerce activity that...

"We all should be lucky that there is revenue to be made out of this gaming environment called SecondLife - so don't think we are going to treat it with the level of respect that the rest of the world treat e-commerce.  We will operate the handling of e-commerce transactions which ever way is convenient for us - even if our solutions do not conform with common well-accepted best practices of payment / sale transaction handling or e-commerce services."

Therefore, in this latest incompentent decision of simply throwing away the $0L MP Sale Transaction records from the main SL transaction history file, it fits perfectly with this attitude from CTL.  They likely knew full well that their new payment processing system couldn't handle the $0L transactions and instead of making it a priority to ensure they were address properly... they simply said "mehhh - its not big deal - who needs to know this anyway.  DUMP THEM."

Shakes Head  :(

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  • Resident

For those concerned about L$0 transactions not showing in the Second Life transaction history: these transactions have not been removed, and you will continue to see L$0 transactions in your history.

Due to the nature of the payout issues we have been working to correct, there are some missing L$0 transactions from the history from June 25, 2013 through July 15, 2013. These transactions will not be recoverable in terms of your Second Life transaction history. You should see all L$0 transactions after July 15, 2013, 11 am PT.

If you do not see L$0 transactions that should be logged in your Second Life transaction history after July 15, 2013, 11 am PT, please make sure you have checked the box “Include L$0 transactions?” If your L$0 transactions are still not showing up, please file a JIRA.

We continue to work on paying out the remaining missed payments, but the majority of orders have been paid out at this point.

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