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Darla Hadisson

An Idea to Combat Users Who Harass

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Hi,

I was in two clubs last night, and in one club, some user (whose name remains anonymous) was causing trouble, and in another, one user was not only causing trouble, but also using racist terms (along the lines of the N-word, the F-word (the other kind, not the one with 4 letters or its other forms), etc.)..

I have a feeling that this sounds like the behavior of teenagers who have nothing better to do with their vacation from school except spend countless hours on the computer, playing games and even on Second Life.  Summer and Christmas seem to be occasions when times are dire and DJ's and club staff have to repeatedly eject users off the sim, only to create alts afterwards and add fuel to the fire.

I personally think the idea of Linden Labs merging the teen grid with the main grid was doing nothing but causing trouble, and I think that idea was proven to be a problem in the long run.

Before I joined SL in 2010, I did read in the forum archives that LL was going to merge the teen grid with the main grid.  I bet 2008 was better times for Second Life with no problematic teens taking advantage of SL.  Then again, the drawback was that teens used a different DOB and got through.

It has come to a conclusion that teenagers tend to take advantage of free membership to SL and other virtual worlds, and I think the idea of one-time registration fees for future newbies is a good but vital idea.  A one-time fee of $1.95 and requesting immediate payment by credit card or PayPal will deter these problematic teenagers-from accessing such world, if they do plan on entering such virtual world just to harass others.  New membership may go down, but anybody can pay $1.95 if they want to seriously join SL.

If that's not a good idea, going back to the glory days of 2008 by splitting the main grid and teen grids separately may be in order.

If none of these are possible, there's nothing more that I can say other than the fact that I cannot wait for September.

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Eh but it will also deter a lot of other users. Not everyone has acess to have their info on file, some don't even have payent info they can put on file. It was a good though, but Im not so sure I'd want to pay just to try a game..Without even a trial?

Best thing to do is use the block/mute imo :P

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So maybe the idea of switching back to the 2008 style of grids, where there is a teen grid and a main grid, is probably the best solution.

Or maybe the idea of a two-step screening process and users-to-be would have to get approved by the folks at Linden Labs in order to access the grid.  On the registration form, have an entry box where a default reason "just felt like it" is shown, and if those users register with that default reason, and not using their own reason (it may prove that people who use their own reason may be a more serious user-to-be, maybe most likely).

Or, the idea of clubs having a swear jar at PG-friendly or clubs or sims that do not tolerate swearing is a good idea.  If the user swears, they will be required to pay the swear jar a small amount of lindens (one club I go to on occasion does have such jar that charges 10L for each swear word they use).  They will only be pardoned if they use a word like "d**k" if it's in reference to a certain person with that name (i.e. Dick Clark, or Dick Van **bleep**, etc.) - they just have to provide a disclaimer, and they will be pardoned, unless it's in reference to a certain you-know-what.  If they don't have the lindens, they will eventually leave and go away. Problem solved.  If all the clubs play their part and implement a swear jar in their clubs, it will be one step closer to deterring problematic teens and other problem users from such behavior.

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Old, tired subject. You're aiming at the wrong people (teens aren't responsible for griefing, and those who choose to move into a separate grid are not going to be troublemakers). I'll just assume you're projecting, and for some reason don't like young people. Well tough, because they're here to stay.

SL will never go back to pay-to-play, mostly because online services can't reliably do this; once they're open, they're open for good. Further the new operating structure of LL relies on a massive sign-up rate (one that is tumbling already, and closing the door will see it drop to near-zero). The chief principle is that thousands are swept towards the front doors, and only a handful (<0.01%) survive two weeks or so, to become 'residents' - this approach would be entirely unsustainable with a pay-to-play model. Marketplace and Linden Home's are now two central spurs of LL's profit generation, and both of these would shrivel significantly, undoing years of LL's commercial development.

Griefing is an issue, sure, but it was actually worse prior to 2010 than it is today. The amount of griefing that goes on within SL is based mostly on two factors, Audience and Reward (your idea tackles neither). This is why events are most often targetted these days, they're the only places with an audience. It's irrelevant to time, age, or lack of payment info.

Everyone has an opinion, but you're just another user presenting with zero facts and near-zero insight.

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I don't have a problem with young people entirely.  I have an issue with some, but not all.  It's only when some of them cause trouble that I have issues with.

As for the sign-up rate, why is it tumbling?  Is it because of competition?  I certainly hope this is not the beginning of the end of Second Life - I really would hate to see it go offline.

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Darla Hadisson wrote:

I don't have a problem with young people entirely.  I have an issue with some, but not all.  It's only when some of them cause trouble that I have issues with.

Why use them as a scapegoat then? Your assumptions are false, SL traffic lowers during the summer (lowering Audience) and raises nearer Christmas (raising Audience). Under 18's are not the only grouping of people to have a lot of spare time during the summer.

At best your choice of target shows no knowledge of how people move around, population groupings (under 18's make a tiny, tiny minority of users), or the causes of griefing.


Darla Hadisson wrote:

As for the sign-up rate, why is it tumbling?  I certainly hope this is not the beginning of the end of Second Life.

You should know this already, seeing as you think closing the doors will help save SL.

Do some homework and try again.

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Your idea of making people pay a fee to join won't keep teens out and shows you haven't been around teens much lately.   Most teens I know have more discretionary income than a lot of adults do.  They also have bank accounts and many have paypal accounts too.  A pay to join fee would discourage more adults than teens I'm afraid.

I was against the teen grid merging with the adult grid for a lot of reasons, but no one ever asked my opinion.  It will never go back to the way it was.  They merged the grids to save money as there were not enough teens using SL to justify a separate grid.  Besides, before the merger of the grids there was plenty of bad behavior in SL.

Swear Jars?  You must have worked in a G / PG club because I've never seen such a thing except in a certain G / PG club that treats their guests like children.  Does this club have a naughty chair and send you to sit in the corner if you are 'bad'.  If you have a rule and someone breaks it simply tell them to stop and if they don't eject / ban them, don't play games with them.  Better yet, get a job or hang out in clubs on M or A land where you know that everyone there is an adult.

 

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Darla Hadisson wrote:

Or maybe the idea of a two-step screening process and users-to-be would have to get approved by the folks at Linden Labs in order to access the grid.  On the registration form, have an entry box where a default reason "just felt like it" is shown, and if those users register with that default reason, and not using their own reason (it may prove that people who use their own reason may be a more serious user-to-be, maybe most likely).

You want to ask a service operator who are deliberately withdrawing from interactions with their userbase to screen EVERY USER as they join up? And then all they have to do is enter "Because I am a serious business person" to avoid being labelled a potential griefer?

I don't think I can politely tell you why this is flawed. Suffice to say that Linden's won't dedicate any employee time to the sign-up process (never have, never will), and your registration form will be gamed.


Darla Hadisson wrote:

Or, the idea of clubs having a swear jar at PG-friendly or clubs or sims that do not tolerate swearing is a good idea.  If the user swears, they will be required to pay the swear jar a small amount of lindens (one club I go to on occasion does have such jar that charges 10L for each swear word they use).  They will only be pardoned if they use a word like "d**k" if it's in reference to a certain person with that name (i.e. Dick Clark, or Dick Van **bleep**, etc.) - they just have to provide a disclaimer, and they will be pardoned, unless it's in reference to a certain you-know-what.  If they don't have the lindens, they will eventually leave and go away. Problem solved. 

This might be the funniest single idea I've heard on this forum. We're grown ups, we can swear as much as we damn well like. Also, congrats on getting censored by LL's attempt to maintain a contextual language filter while describing how to stop people swearing. Ahaha yeah, problem solved.


Darla Hadisson wrote:

 If all the clubs play their part and implement a swear jar in their clubs, it will be one step closer to deterring problematic teens and other problem users from such behavior.

Again you target young people and teens for no reason. And I have no idea what you don't like about swearing, but it indicates to me that you're the one not suited to Second Life, not these imaginary teenage griefers.

I'm pretty sure I'm done here, cheers for the laughs but I really can't just spend my time debunking each idea vomitted up without an ounce of thought (and I've got swearing to do).

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Darla Hadisson wrote:

Hi,

I was in two clubs last night, and in one club, some user (whose name remains anonymous) was causing trouble, and in another, one user was not only causing trouble, but also using racist terms (along the lines of the N-word, the F-word (the other kind, not the one with 4 letters or its other forms), etc.)..

I have a feeling that this sounds like the behavior of teenagers 

 there are lots of adults that act like kids..

it's easy to get the feeling they are actually kids..

SL where adults can be kids too

 

 

 

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Ceka Cianci wrote:


Darla Hadisson wrote:

Hi,

I was in two clubs last night, and in one club, some user (whose name remains anonymous) was causing trouble, and in another, one user was not only causing trouble, but also using racist terms (along the lines of the N-word, the F-word (the other kind, not the one with 4 letters or its other forms), etc.)..

I have a feeling that this sounds like the behavior of teenagers 

 there are lots of adults that act like kids..

it's easy to get the feeling they are actually kids..

SL where adults can be kids too

Yep, I've been here for more than five years and did not notice an increase in childish behavior with the arrival of teens. I think it's more a matter of the venue and the response that griefing gets.

"Wisdom comes with age, but sometimes age comes alone." - Oscar Wilde

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Nah.

First, I don't blame teens. Sadly a lot of the trollers and/or griefers are well into their adult years.

Second, this is not a new argument. Making people register has been talked about for years. It's basically putting the 'no free accounts' toothpaste back into the tube. It's too late. 

I don't believe in tarring everyone with one brush. Instead of punishing everyone, some of whom want alts for all sorts of good reasons, and who never have broken TOS, how about just punishing that person, when that person behaves badly.

Even if they paid the fee or used someone's info to sign up for a more restricted account they could still misbehave, anyway. It's SL, not Utopia.

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Darla Hadisson wrote:

I don't have a problem with young people entirely.  I have an issue with some, but not all.  It's only when some of them cause trouble that I have issues with.

As for the sign-up rate, why is it tumbling?  Is it because of competition?  I certainly hope this is not the beginning of the end of Second Life - I really would hate to see it go offline.

I hate to say but it's not "young" people who cause the majority of griefing, copybotting, etc on the grid. How do you know they are actually young? You had a way to find out their rl info? I could say I was 17 and no one would know. I don't have a problem with young people, I have a problem with parents who don't spend time with their kids and who are not good role models, but IMO young people are really irrelevant to this.

I would never pay a sign up fee to "try" something. You have to keep in mind that not every adult has PayPal or a Creidt Card and it would not be fair to exclude those you don't want to invest in SL but would still like to enjoy it. The talk of the end of SL is really not relevant IMO either because of young people. How many times do people say it's the end of SL for whatever subject they are talking about.

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Darla Hadisson wrote:

 

It has come to a conclusion that teenagers tend to take advantage of free membership to SL and other virtual worlds, and I think the idea of
one-time registration fees for future newbies
is a good but vital idea.  A one-time fee of $1.95 and requesting immediate payment by credit card or PayPal will deter these problematic teenagers-from accessing such world, if they do plan on entering such virtual world just to harass others.  New membership may go down, but anybody can pay $1.95 if they want to seriously join SL.


There are many people who would gladly pay that $1.95 so they could harrass others.

It would in no way deter them.

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Darla Hadisson wrote:

So maybe the idea of switching back to the 2008 style of grids, where there is a teen grid and a main grid, is probably the best solution.


I've been in SL since 2007 and personally experience less griefing now than I did back then prior to the teen grid being merged.  Perhaps I now know what areas are ripe for griefing and avoid them; perhaps the griefing has changed (in 2007-2008 I mainly encountered massive monkey head texture griefing as well as flying penii), etc. 

Wherever there are people - here, in MMORPGs, even text-based mediums - there will be griefers.

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Fixing "problems" that aren't really problems.... It's everyone's SL.

And "competition" doesn't exist.

Audience and reaction.

We either stand together or grow lonely on our private walled islands.

Personally, I've had more fun, and see more creativity, with the griefers and builders of SL than in any other place on the 'net.

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I'll just join the chorus of people who doubt the merger of the Teen Grid had anything to do with more griefing. Everyone I've read and talked to who visited the Teen Grid after the merge had nothing but praise for the quality of the builds and the general feel of the place.

I've only met two avatars who told me they started on the Teen Grid and both were smart, creative, successful SL'ers. The one I know best is just out of her teens now but it's quite clear she has her head screwed on fine and I don't think that's a recent development.

I tend to doubt that calendar age is a good way to judge people's likely behavior in either RL or SL, although I suppose SL does give some adults the ability to ACT like children—name calling, etc.—and do other things they might hesitate to do in RL. In any case, the kind of teens that are doing things such as you described (if, in fact, they ARE teens) would never have been in the Teen Grid anyway.

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Griffin Ceawlin wrote:

What rock do you live under where teenagers have a monopoly on spewing racial and homphobic hatred?

elections prove they don't..that's for sure hehehe

i see this more popular with politicians than anything..

and they get paid  and elected because of their beliefs..or the ones they tell everyone they have anyways..

teens sure are not the ones voting them in..

hehehehe

 

oh also on a side note of recognition...

yay for the supreme court giving some federal recognition today to anyone that decides to get married to anyone they wish no matter what gender in certain states =)

a step forward was made today! \o/

states will come around =)

 

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Madelaine McMasters wrote:


Ceka Cianci wrote:


Darla Hadisson wrote:

Hi,

I was in two clubs last night, and in one club, some user (whose name remains anonymous) was causing trouble, and in another, one user was not only causing trouble, but also using racist terms (along the lines of the N-word, the F-word (the other kind, not the one with 4 letters or its other forms), etc.)..

I have a feeling that this sounds like the behavior of teenagers 

 there are lots of adults that act like kids..

it's easy to get the feeling they are actually kids..

SL where adults can be kids too

Yep, I've been here for more than five years and did not notice an increase in childish behavior with the arrival of teens. I think it's more a matter of the venue and the response that griefing gets.

"Wisdom comes with age, but sometimes age comes alone." - Oscar Wilde

oh i love that quote =)

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Ceka Cianci wrote:


Madelaine McMasters wrote:

"Wisdom comes with age, but sometimes age comes alone." - Oscar Wilde


oh i love that quote =)

I do too.

Maddy frowns when I suggest she's sometimes an example of the wrong half of it.

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    I am an adult. I teleport into a club, see a bunch of other adults who, among other annoying things I won't mention, are spamming HOOO! gestures and baby laugh noises. Yeah... I'm going to eff with them. Is that childish of me? Sure, maybe. No more than them. Is it fun? Yes! 

    Pushing a bunch of other avatars around for my own amusement may be childish. Taking your pixels super-serious and taking offense as if I just curb stomped your mom... COME ON! :D

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I don't think teens have anything to do with it. I was around when the merger happened and didn't notice any change. I think the griefers tend to be people new to SL...no matter what their age. I recently put that Gold Hunt game on 2 of my sims. It was great at first, brought in some nice traffic so yay for me. But I also noticed it brought in a TON of new avatars. And I had more problems with griefers than ever, all of them were less than 3 months old. I had these 2 jerks show up and were harassing my customers. They have these completely rediculous looking avatars and were bumping into customers trying to push them off the sim. Was so annoying, I banned them of course but that's just one example. It kept happening so much I had to take the Gold Hunt game off my sim. I talked with a few and they found the game right away when they joined SL when asking around about making linden. So it's being promoted to new players...which really doesn't do me any good anyway as a furniture maker. They won't have a house yet so it's pointless. Anyway, I'm rambling but point is, it's not teens. Any age can be stupid. I think it's more people who are new and don't yet have a vested interest in SL, friends or even themselves as avatars.

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Deja Letov wrote:

I don't think teens have anything to do with it. I was around when the merger happened and didn't notice any change. I think the griefers tend to be people new to SL...no matter what their age. I recently put that Gold Hunt game on 2 of my sims. It was great at first, brought in some nice traffic so yay for me. But I also noticed it brought in a TON of new avatars. And I had more problems with griefers than ever, all of them were less than 3 months old. I had these 2 jerks show up and were harassing my customers. They have these completely rediculous looking avatars and were bumping into customers trying to push them off the sim. Was so annoying, I banned them of course but that's just one example. It kept happening so much I had to take the Gold Hunt game off my sim. I talked with a few and they found the game right away when they joined SL when asking around about making linden. So it's being promoted to new players...which really doesn't do me any good anyway as a furniture maker. They won't have a house yet so it's pointless. Anyway, I'm rambling but point is, it's not teens. Any age can be stupid. I think it's more people who are new and don't yet have a vested interest in SL, friends or even themselves as avatars.

Whne you say "griefers," do you mean people doing stupid things or do you mean griefing?

Being an annoying idiot is not griefing.  It's being an annoying idiot.

As to three months old, real griefers keep a supply of pre-registerred accounts on hand.  If an account gets banned they just pull up another one.  Account age does not give any clue to how long someone has been in SL.

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